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Why Did BA Stop Serving Pittsburgh?  
User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6425 times:

When BA stoppted serving Pittsburgh on the 31st of October 1999, was their any reason why? In the photo bellow it says "This is one of the last flights of British Airways EVER into Pittsburgh
As of October 31st British Airways will halt service to Pittsburgh and another route LHR-LAS will be implemented by Virgin Atlantic.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John R. Cushma


Can someone enlighten me as to why
1- BA stopped the route2Is the photographer true in saying " one of the last BA flights EVER to Pittsburgh", and if he was true , why was it second from last ever ?
Finally
3- Why a VS route to LAS affected the BA route to PIT ?

Thanks, Wrighbrothers


Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAGC525 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 989 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6395 times:

As a kid growing up in PIT and starting my interest in aviation, I used to love seeing the BA 747 come in once a day, right over my house, always around 5pm.

I'd like to know that too...



American Aviation: From Kitty Hawk to the Moon in 66 years!
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6393 times:

I'm guessing here, so someone in the know please tell me whether I'm right.

First off, in the 80's to the mid 90's BA had an alliance with US Airways which included a BA flying LHR-PIT to hook into US's hub network. When BA then tried to get into bed with AA, the alliance with US was abruptly ended much to US's chagrin. Predictably, traffic fell off and yields did as well (if they ever were very good).

What role does VS play in all this? My guess is when BA ended LHR-PIT the slot out of LHR came up for grabs and was subsequently purchased or otherwise obtained by VS for its LHR-LAS service.

How's that for an educated guess?

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineTymnBalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 945 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6382 times:

One big reason was the end of the US/BA alliance. US provided BA PIT significant feed via codeshare connections.

Trivia: BA is still paying for counter and lounge space at PIT.

C.



Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineAA54Heavy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6350 times:

Quoting TymnBalewne (Reply 3):
Trivia: BA is still paying for counter and lounge space at PIT.

Did they have a long term contract? When can they stop paying?



Roger that, turning to our "other" left
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6332 times:

I like the fact its a Boeing 767 and it has a "City of Toulouse" painted on it. spin 


"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineMichiganMAN From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6323 times:

a boeing plane named "City of Toulouse" ooooh the irony.


UK -> USA
User currently offlineAerofan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6322 times:

Well BA ain't no fool! The loads just weren't there

User currently offlineNetworkDoc From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6284 times:

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 2):
First off, in the 80's to the mid 90's BA had an alliance with US Airways which included a BA flying LHR-PIT to hook into US's hub network.

I just checked some OAG data on seats and frequencies, for years 1994-2003. According to that, there was *NO* LHR-PIT flight at all - it shows as LGW-PIT (included in the OAG search were all flights to/from PIT on no- and one-stop services). Can you guys just tell me if OAG is wrong or if we should be talking about LGW instead of LHR?

In any case, LGW-PIT was operated by BA until 1999. However, interestingly enough, after BA dropped it, US picked up the traffic, and, as a result, capacity remained on average the same whilst frequencies remained identical. Thus, scientifically speaking, even though BA no longer serves the routes, passengers should not have lost in the amount of capacity/frequency provided (of course, this does not address service preference).

I would go with the general view here that PIT was alliance-related for BA, although cutting back of long-haul destinations has been a general trend to streamline the operation, evident in the fact that it was operated both before and after the alliance with US.



Flown: AB/BA/BD/BI/CX/DI/DL/KE/KL/LH/LT/LX/MH/NW/OZ/PR/QF/SN/SQ/TW/UA/VS/5J.
User currently offlineBAViscount From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2338 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6244 times:

Quoting Aerofan (Reply 7):
Well BA ain't no fool! The loads just weren't there

Could well be true.

I once flew LHR-PIT with BA back in 1992 when they were using a 744 on that route. The flight made a stopover in IAD where it seems that most pax left the flight. We continued on to PIT with a very light load. I believe it was the same on the return journey - very few pax boarded at PIT, although I'm not sure of the load on the IAD-LHR leg as I was seated on the upper deck, so didn't see how full the flight was downstairs. However, this was in February, so I'm not sure what the demand would be for flying LHR-PIT at that chilly time of year in The Burgh!



Ladies & gentlemen this is Captain Tobias Wilcock welcoming you aboard Coconut Airways flight 372 to Bridgetown Barb
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6185 times:

Quoting NetworkDoc (Reply 8):
I just checked some OAG data on seats and frequencies, for years 1994-2003. According to that, there was *NO* LHR-PIT flight at all - it shows as LGW-PIT (included in the OAG search were all flights to/from PIT on no- and one-stop services). Can you guys just tell me if OAG is wrong or if we should be talking about LGW instead of LHR?

Well, there goes that theory out the window. Thanks for checking.

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3133 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6103 times:

BA started PIT service without an alliance in the mid eighties as an add on to IAD. This went on for about 5 years, so I guess BA considered the add on successful enough. The route really became successfull when BA and US had an alliance, in which nonstop service was added to LGW. When the alliance ended, there was no longer enough revenue to justify the nonstop service. Reverting back to an add on from IAD or PHL might have worked again, but one stop service seemed to have gone out of style by this time because of all the global alliances.

When BA announced the closure of the route, BA said they would have continued with it if they could get only 1 or 2 people more people per day on average in first class. CAL's CLE service may have taken those 1 or 2 First class passengers from BA.

After BA ended the service, the British gov't gave the LGW-PIT authority to Virgin. They transferred the service to LAS.



FLYi
User currently offlineTymnBalewne From Bermuda, joined Mar 2005, 945 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6011 times:

Quoting AA54Heavy (Reply 4):
Quoting TymnBalewne (Reply 3):
Trivia: BA is still paying for counter and lounge space at PIT.

Did they have a long term contract? When can they stop paying?

When did the new airport open? Take that date and add 25 years. (it's either 20 or 25).

C.



Dewmanair...begins with Dew
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5945 times:

A few months ago, the Pittsburgh papers had several articles on the city's current efforts to try and get BA or LH to start services from Pittsburgh. That was of course after US downsized PIT and eliminated direct service to Europe. I haven't read any further news on the results of those efforts. The city's top business leaders also pressed Parker (US Airways CEO), when he visited there about 2 months ago, to restart a US service to Europe (LGW and/or FRA). Without the (US) feed Pittsburgh once had, I doubt it will happen; although the city seems to feel top tier O&D is there for at least a single flight on it's own merits. I would think that if Pittsburgh businesses really wanted a flight, they could offer to subsidize one IF US (or anyone else) had a spare capable aircraft. I'd just still question the viability of the Europe to Pittsburgh loads though.

User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5927 times:

I believe USAir and BA had a code-share agreement on the route. USAir cancelled their marketing agreement with BA, thus reducing feed for the BA flight. It ceased being profitable and BA pulled out.


Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineJcavinato From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5927 times:

I remember BA doing PIT/IAD/LHR, then it was PIT/PHL/LHR.

The nonstop started when BA invested $550 million into USAirways and as part of the deal leased one or two of USAirways 767s, reliveried them, and flew them PIT-LGW non-stop. That ended when long term prospects with USAir seemed to wain and BA/AA started dating. I rode the last LGW-PIT flight run by BA. I was invited to a crew party at PIT at the end of the flight. BA had a nice cake and other snacks -- thanked the USAirways folks for a nice relationship.

I flew PIT-LGW and back every three or four weeks for about five years. I remember being the only person in business class on a few of those flights. I could leave SCE late in the afternoon for PIT and connect for the overnight. Coming back it was a quick walk through immigration and customs and a flight home in time for dinner.


User currently offlineKingGeo3 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5828 times:

Quoting AGC525 (Reply 1):
As a kid growing up in PIT and starting my interest in aviation, I used to love seeing the BA 747 come in once a day, right over my house, always around 5pm.

You know what AGC525, the exact same flight piqued my interest in aviation when it flew over my house at 5pm. Too bad it isn't there anymore.

-KG3



Nobody respects me . . . :(
User currently offlineKiwiinOz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5773 times:

Quoting Aerofan (Reply 7):
Well BA ain't no fool! The loads just weren't there

I agree. I guess the poms just cottoned on to the fact that instead of flying to Pittsburgh, for a similar experience they might as well jump in the car and drive to Birmingham.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5645 times:

Quoting Vega (Reply 13):
although the city seems to feel top tier O&D is there for at least a single flight on it's own merits.

Freight for the pharmaceuticals is what they're looking at too, kind of like that RDU flight that has been overanalyzed to death here on A.net. The city/county feels that the top tier O&D would suffice, but yet everyone here says Biz class was always empty. Interesting.


User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5546 times:

Thanks for all your replies, and sorry for the late reply ( I started this tread at about 10:30pm British time and I have just got back from school).
Anyways, I am now intrigued , could/ would BA start the route again

Wrighbrothers  Smile



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5550 times:

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 19):
could/ would BA start the route again

Doubtful. Wrong alliance. PIT is still a Star Alliance town, AA is trying to make PIT a non-mainline city. If BA ran 757's Transatlantic, then maybe. Otherwise, I don't see it.

That said, I think there are actually a couple possible markets for someone running 757's Transatlantic to/from PIT. London, then probably FRA as well, and maybe even AMS. However, none of the big 757 runners (specifically CO) are big in PIT... and CO sure as hell wouldn't do it and drain away from CLE.


User currently offlineATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2272 posts, RR: 38
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5507 times:

Yea I remember seeing the 741's back when I was a kid. Beautiful bird which will be missed (as is their 76's).

Yea AA will be this next schedule a non-mainline city with all Eagle.

As for demand, I could see a Star Alliance carrier starting PIT-Europe service here, just not US Airways. I dont know why the county keeps trying to coax US into more flights, it isnt going to happen. Frankly, screw US. Lets try and get LH or maybe even someone like BMI or even a Oneworld carrier in here. I believe we have the demand for London or Paris.

my  twocents 

ATCT



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5484 times:

Quoting ATCT (Reply 21):
it isn't going to happen. Frankly, screw US. Lets try and get LH or maybe even someone like BMI or even a Oneworld carrier in here. I believe we have the demand for London or Paris.

I wouldn't think BD would take up a PIT route , their fleet is streached enough and they would only serve PIT only a 2 or 3 times weekly schedule. Which wouldn't be adequate enough for profits that they would want. LH I could see in the future , but not for a few years more.
I too think that only a star alliance airline would try the route , because , as has already been said, PIT is almost all star alliance so a oneworld airline would have a hard time getting passengers mesthinks.
If/ or an airline foes start a route to Europe , it would be to LGW/MAN and then possibly a FRA or CDG route using a B767 or B757 , but nothing larger.

Wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineWorldflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5485 times:

TWA flew PIT-LGW as well, believe it started in 1980 or 1981...3x/weekly with L-1011's, it didn't last long. Then in 1985 BA started LHR-xxx-PIT with xxx either IAD, PHL, even YUL over the next 15 years...finally towards the end the route was nonstop LGW-PIT with 767.

User currently offlineEi2ksea From Ireland, joined Jul 2004, 576 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5427 times:

Strangely on the topic of new transatlantic flights from PIT, when Willie Walsh was still CEO of Aer Lingus he mentioned that PIT was one destination he would like to serve channeling passengers through DUB (as well as a list of others). This of course couldnt happen with the Irish-US bilateral however I wonder might he show the same interest in linking cities such as PIT to the BA network via LHR now that he is at the BA helm.

Regards
ph



Next Flight: BOS-SFO (B6), OAK-KOA (AK), KOA-OGG (YV), OGG-HNL (HA), HNL-ATL-BOS (DL)
25 MainMAN : Charming. Since when has Birmingham been a steel city?
26 PITrules : Likewise, since when has Pittsburgh been a steel city? Not in 30 some years.
27 Post contains images Tornado82 : Beat me to the punch there. But of course, everyone thinks its still a smelly, smokey, dirty steel town.
28 Wrighbrothers : Perhaps he could extend a route , perhaps an IAD, IAH or BWI route extention would be goood. Another route I was thinkijng of was the Charlotte route
29 Kahala777 : Virgin Atlantic started Las Vegas to London Gatwick, with 2 x a week. The service has since grown to include the 747-400 up to 6 x per week in 2006.
30 Flyboy7974 : but on another point i dont see stated, there never was las-heathrow service, it's always been gatwick
31 Wrighbrothers : It was LGW because it's a leisure route.Not enough premium passengers for a LHR route. Now I just wish BA would start a daily LHR/LGW-LAS route with
32 Joost : It was also LGW as by the Bermuda II-treaty, non-stop LHR-LAS flights are not allowed.
33 Speedbirdcrew : I'm sure I read somewhere that BA want to focus on offering Direct services wherever possible, what's the point of running an almost empty 747 IAD-PI
34 Joost : At least here they have 5th freedom rights, so they can sell tickets SIN/BKK-SYD v.v., so they don't need to fly half-empty planes.
35 Post contains images Wrighbrothers : Hi Speedbirdcrew Add LHR-NAS-GCM/PLS LGW-St Lucia/Grenada/Tobago LHR-BAH-Doha LHR-Abu Dhabi-Muscat Oh BTW, It's LHR-GRU-GIG/EZE. Dont forget LHR-SIN-M
36 Post contains images Skyexramper : Why did USAir stop serving a lot from PIT!?
37 FlyCaledonian : When BA dropped LGW-PIT VS applied for the authority to switch PIT as a US gateway to LAS, enabling them to start LGW-LAS service. VS had earlier fail
38 Post contains images Speedbirdcrew : I knew there was a use for that, and now I know what it is!! Thanks for the corrections
39 Post contains images Wrighbrothers : When I flew LHR-LAX in August on BA, I spent .....ummm , a few hours talking to the cabin crew , 2 hours studying the BA route map ( I'm sad like tha
40 Post contains links Tornado82 : One smartass question deserves some smartass answers. 1) Because USAir hasn't existed for years. 2) If you meant USAirWAYS, its because they'd rather
41 Georgiabill : Following the Kiss theory(keep it simple stupid) It was not economically viable
42 Post contains links Vega : Really? Care to be more specific? http://www.auditorgen.state.pa.us/De...t/Press/LakeFieldPressRelease.html http://www.state.pa.us/papower/cwp/view.a
43 Tornado82 : If you're gonna blame someone locally, learn Western PA Geography/Politics first. The city of Pittsburgh has little to nothing to do with the airport
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