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Greece Considers Yet Again Olympic Relaunch  
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24880 posts, RR: 46
Posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2612 times:

"Greece may relaunch Olympic Airlines as a new company as talks to sell the ailing carrier to investment group Olympic Investors-York capital seem to have stalled, financial daily Naftemporiki reported on Wednesday."

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1129121011.html


This comes on the heals of a just completed private study as to future size/shape of Olympic operations.

The report basically divides future OA's operations down into 3 scenarios.

1 - European airline using B737s, while keeping much of domestic network using ATRs but maintaining New York as sole long haul route. Withdrawl of most Near East/Middle East routes.
2 - Reduced European only network serving key capital cities with significantly reduced domestic operations primarily serving trunk routes without service to many smaller island destinations with one type B737 fleet. No long haul.
3 - Reduced European only network serving key capital cities with 737s, while still maintaining some ATRs for scaled back domestic network. No long haul.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2580 times:

I would not like to see this happen. Olympic has already vastly scaled back its operations and made great cuts to its fleet and network. any further reductions should come in staff cuts, not aircraft and route cuts!

User currently offlineACdreamliner From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 517 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2550 times:

why do companys all ways downscale to get out of trouble. i don't get it. surely if they opened a new high yield long haul route, i.e Athens - Melbourne or Athens - Toronto (Both of which have high Greek populations) (A340?). would that not help?

Gav



Where are you going?
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24880 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2529 times:

Quoting ACdreamliner (Reply 2):
surely if they opened a new high yield long haul route, i.e Athens - Melbourne or Athens - Toronto (Both of which have high Greek populations) (A340?). would that not help?

High yield?? They pulled out of Australia a few years back as the yields were terrible. Matter of fact nearly every European airline that once served Australia has withdrawn.
You must remember chasing the Greek diasporas around the world is exactly what has caused OA's long haul network to hemorrhage money.

For the sake of Greece and its people, it would in my eyes be best of to let OA disappear and some private investors hopefully be able to create a true airline the country can be proud off rather then the circus OA has become.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4680 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2499 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
1 - European airline using B737s, while keeping much of domestic network using ATRs but maintaining New York as sole long haul route. Withdrawl of most Near East/Middle East routes.

Just one longhaul route ? Forget it, far too expensive.

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
2 - Reduced European only network serving key capital cities with significantly reduced domestic operations primarily serving trunk routes without service to many smaller island destinations with one type B737 fleet. No long haul.
3 - Reduced European only network serving key capital cities with 737s, while still maintaining some ATRs for scaled back domestic network. No long haul.

This sounds far more likely. Anybody to know if the domestic routes (especially the smaller ones) are subsidized ?

Btw, who will win the battle for the A343s then ? LH, 9W, AR, EY or (an)other carrier(s) ?



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2485 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
"Greece may relaunch Olympic Airlines as a new company as talks to sell the ailing carrier to investment group Olympic Investors-York capital seem to have stalled, financial daily Naftemporiki reported on Wednesday."

Olympic Airways, Olympic Aviation, Olympic Airlines, Alitalia, Malev, Aer Lingus, all feeling the hefty fall from grace. If an airline cannot make it, why dump money into it? Let the strongest survive. Most all routes to Greece are duplicated by other airlines. Most routes in Greece, would take a hit, but not for long. There are many airlines that could enter the Greek domestic market, and make a buck or two. RyanAir, and Easy Jet come to mind.

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
1 - European airline using B737s, while keeping much of domestic network using ATRs but maintaining New York as sole long haul route. Withdrawl of most Near East/Middle East routes.

A sole long haul route would be a financial bloodbath.

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
2 - Reduced European only network serving key capital cities with significantly reduced domestic operations primarily serving trunk routes without service to many smaller island destinations with one type B737 fleet. No long haul.
3 - Reduced European only network serving key capital cities with 737s, while still maintaining some ATRs for scaled back domestic network. No long haul.

Olympic Airways, only money making route, is JFK-ATH. If anything Olympic should close its doors, start over and think with their cash in hand, not the cash people donate to keep the old boat airline afloat!

KAHALA777


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11452 posts, RR: 61
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2468 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
Withdrawl of most Near East/Middle East routes.

This, IMO, is a stupid move. OA should be using their brand new 'hub' at ATH as it is the perfect location as a transit hub between Europe and the Middle East.


User currently onlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19196 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2455 times:

I don't really see why ATH-major European cities (and possibly Middle Eastern ones) would not work at first. Increase efficiency as much as possible (including one type of aircraft, i.e. the 738 or 320) Complete rebranding. Great marketing. But the same problem - trade unions - will probably arise thus causing problems.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24880 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2411 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 4):
Just one longhaul route ? Forget it, far too expensive.



Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 5):
A sole long haul route would be a financial bloodbath.

From reading the report, I get the feeling somesort of joint operation is planned. Might not be 100% OA aircraft or crew. The 4 A340s would be Greek governments problem to dispose of.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 5):
There are many airlines that could enter the Greek domestic market, and make a buck or two. RyanAir, and Easy Jet come to mind.

Stelios has publicly stated he is neither interested in making a Athens base nor flying domesticaly within Greece.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 5):
Olympic Airways, only money making route, is JFK-ATH.

Actually at the moment nothing really makes money. However the carriers single consistent route that border on the black going back many years has been LHR.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
OA should be using their brand new 'hub' at ATH as it is the perfect location as a transit hub between Europe and the Middle East.

Yes but there is plenty of competition already for traffic between the regions. OA would be late to the game with an inferior product and schedule.
In addition connecting traffic in general tends to be lower yield than point to point traffic.
Kinda hard to compete with Emirates 777/A330s flying older smaller non IFE B737s.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 4680 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2281 times:

Quoting A342 (Reply 4):
Anybody to know if the domestic routes (especially the smaller ones) are subsidized ?

Someone to answer my question ?



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineIcarus75 From France, joined Oct 2003, 796 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2249 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 5):
There are many airlines that could enter the Greek domestic market, and make a buck or two. RyanAir, and Easy Jet come to mind.

Do you have any idea of what of the domestic routes are?
Do you really think that FR for example would want to serve the Athens-Karpathos route?

The problem with Greece domestic network is that they need to have at least one flight a day to some remote islands and in this case, no profit possible!!!



Flying is amazing!
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7403 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2246 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
1 - European airline using B737s, while keeping much of domestic network using ATRs but maintaining New York as sole long haul route. Withdrawl of most Near East/Middle East routes.
2 - Reduced European only network serving key capital cities with significantly reduced domestic operations primarily serving trunk routes without service to many smaller island destinations with one type B737 fleet. No long haul.
3 - Reduced European only network serving key capital cities with 737s, while still maintaining some ATRs for scaled back domestic network. No long haul.

The problem is not the network, or the fleet ...

Greece is a great country with a tremendous potential (tourism, strategic geographic situation etc...). Greece could have one of the best airlines of Europe with all short/medium/Long haul network.

This not the problem.

The problem is how is/will be run this airline.
No need to relaunch an "Olympic III", then "Olympic IV" if it is managed the same way Olympic was in the past 30 years and if Olympic staff continues to be so rude and to behave the same way with customers...

It will be exactly the same situation for Alitalia .

[Edited 2005-10-14 19:18:44]

User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2229 times:

Scenario 3 is absolutely worth to try. OA has big losses because management decisions were often based on the pressure of different groups and the desire for prestige (longhaul operations) than economic considerations. However, there is absolutely a market for both European connections to Greece and connections to the islands. If they restart with a politically independent management, they have a good chance to perform well.

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2217 times:

Unless Olympic DRASTICALLY changes their business plan, every incarnation will be massacred by Aegean and other independent Greek carriers.

Best of luck to them!!



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2214 times:

From my reading of the activities of Olympic, it seems it is run more like a Middle Eastern airline than a European/world airline. That is, obvious senecures, jobs for the boys, jobs for their sons, jobs for their friend's sons, family favourites, and inter-family diplomatic bargaining etc etc.....It was never allowed or envisaged to be a proper business operating within proper business rules.

That's the nature of Greece. As such they should do everything possible to keep Olympic flying. If that involves the government pouring endless cash into it, than that's the way it should be.

Pay cuts need to be enforced from the top down and starting from the top for being useless. And if all else fails...sell it to Ryanair. The only airline making any money these days.  Wink


User currently offlineUSADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2212 times:

 blockhead   blush   blockhead   blush   blockhead 

The load factors on long haul routes is not high?Why keep New York only?
I think they should focus on european flights( even they have a lot of competition),but keep the North American and Middle Eastern routes.
In my opinion,Greece is in a excellent place geographically, to connect East and West.
I guess so many years of corruption,bureocracy and bad decisions created all the bad publicity and sad situation that Olympic is now.
Hope they don't change the olympic rings!

USADreamliner

 bouncy   crossfingers   bouncy   crossfingers   bouncy   crossfingers 


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7403 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2197 times:

Quoting Babybus (Reply 14):
it seems it is run more like a Middle Eastern airline than a European/world airline.

What do you mean by "Middle Eastern Airline" ?

Most "Middle Eastern" airlines are far better run than Olympic, and I am not talking only about the most famous big ones (Emirates, Qatar, Etihad & Co ...) but also MEA, Royal Jordanian, etc ...

Even Syrian Air is more profitable and better run than Olympic !


User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7473 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2107 times:

How many A340's would be needed to operate just 1 long haul route.

Would it be used on denser European routes as well.


User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2100 times:

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 17):
How many A340's would be needed to operate just 1 long haul route.

Would it be used on denser European routes as well.

If you want to operate the route daily and it takes including turn-around more than twelve hours, you need one plane to go, a second one for the return flight and a third one as backup for the case of problems or if one a/c is in mx. That's why a one-route network doesn't make sense. It's much simpler to do it for a large US based carrier.

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24880 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2079 times:

From reading the report, I believe the sole JFK operation would be operated in conjunction with another airline. Whether this means a US carrier or possibly another regional/Middle Eastern airline routing their US services via Athens with OA selling the ATH-JFK leg.

Either way whatever happens with Olympic part XX, unless if the company is fully restructured and allowed to operate on strictly commercial terms without the interference of the government or unions, any reincarnation will suffer the same fate as previous versions.

A guess this is what they call a true Greek Tragedy.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSam737 From India, joined Apr 2005, 16 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1955 times:

Due to the problems faced by OA a lot of their pilots have left OA to join 9W. Informed sources say that 9W is hiring about 40 OA 737 Captains in the initial phase and maybe more later to meet the massive expansion requirements. Already Jet has got quite a few Greek pilots on the 340s, I assume from Olympic.

User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1413 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1942 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
This, IMO, is a stupid move. OA should be using their brand new 'hub' at ATH as it is the perfect location as a transit hub between Europe and the Middle East.

Europe and the Middle East are not far enough apart. OA certainly wouldn't see high yields operating Europe-Middle East with an ATH hub.

Maintaining one long-haul route does not seem to make sense unless the yields can really justify the expense of keeping the A340(s) in service just for the JFK route. Maybe they can...

The problem OA faces is that there is already a lot of charter/LCC activity into Greece so OA really has a lot to go against. I think trimming down and only serving prime business routes makes sense. Completely seperate themselves from the tourist market.

Unfortunately with the way the industry is in Greece (driven by tour operators) there really isn't much room for an airline like OA. My belief is that it can only exist as a smaller SN Brussels-style airline. Just my 2 pence though...


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