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TAM To Start REC-CDG Non Stop  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5300 times:
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Now it's official. TAM is expanding its network and is changing one of their frequencies GRU-CDG (nowadays 14 per week), to one GRU-REC-CDG.
The new weekly service will be operated on fridays (REC-CDG) and sundays (CDG-REC):

Flight JJ8088
GRU ETD 19:45
REC ETA 21:50
REC ETD 22:40
CDG ETA 11:45 (+1)

Flight JJ8089
CDG ETD 19:35
REC ETA 01:10 (+1)
REC ETD 02:00 (+1)
GRU ETA 06:20 (+1)

This JJ flight is not one of the 3 frequencies requested by JJ to Brazilian DOT (CERNAI). TAM would announce 3 more frequencies (expect to be a Daily flight GRU-CDG, but as per this change, we can expect more diversion from GRU, which helds very good service to CDG with 35 weekly flights)

REC is nowadays a top ten Brazilian Airport, a city with 1,4 million people capital of Pernambuco state (with around 8 million people). Recently has been announced a major investment from PDVSA (Venezuela) and Petrobras for a new Oil Refinery (a US$ 2,2 billions investment). It's an important touristic destination in Northeast Brazil and also a strong confirmation that Brazilian Government is acting to improve air connections from Northeast to Europe (and soonest to US)

Very good news to Brazil, Northeast, and well done TAM for this new frontier.

Regards,
Felipe

[Edited 2005-10-14 03:49:38]


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSampa737 From Brazil, joined May 2005, 637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5262 times:

That really is exciting for the northeast. Perhaps that area of the country is finally getting noticed and recognized for business and tourism. Brasil is one of the world's secrets when it comes to tourist destinations, particularly the northeast including smaller capital cities such as Maceio and Aracaju. Makes one wonder when AA will begin service from MIA! The REC airport is not at all what it was just a few years back. Parabens to REC and TAM!

User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5235 times:

Indeed good news, but I wonder what difference only one frequency can stand for to pax between CDG and REC. It's really too few. I hope they increase frequencies.

By the way.. How is TAM one weekly SSA-MIA doing? There will be charters from CDG to REC as of next year as well.

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 1):
Makes one wonder when AA will begin service from MIA!

Very soon!!! US-Brazil Bilateral is already under revision and extra flights will be granted to US carriers.

It's happening a big decentralization of flights from GRU and airlines are seeing other airports and regions are profitable as well. GIG and Northeast are examples. Other airports are to be announced and you can expect a flood of flights launched to secondary cities next year from TP, AA, DL, LH, G3 (BSB, MCZ, MAO, CNF)... It's extremely tiring making detours to GRU.



Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5175 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
Very good news to Brazil, Northeast, and well done TAM for this new frontier.

Excellent news. As you mentioned, CDG-GRU route has very, very tough competition with 35 weekly flights operated by RG, TAM and AF. This is yet another interesting niche market explored by TAM, so as to move away from the over-crowded GRU hub.

REC is an interesting hub, the most important capital in Northeast Brazil, and has an excellent airport with state-of-the-art facilities, much superior to GRU.

Good news for the Europe-Brazil market. Btw, I have information that AF is investigating the possibility of operating CDG-SSA as their new market, after the consolidation of AF's two daily CDG-GRU (B772 and A330) and needless to say AF CDG-GIG (B747) is a huge money maker!

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5046 times:
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Quoting Brasuca (Reply 2):
By the way.. How is TAM one weekly SSA-MIA doing?

Very well. Loads are about 75%-80% but fills more Y than C / F classes. As the flight keeps final destination Sao Paulo, it helps TAM in add traffic SSA-GRU and SSA-South.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4968 times:

Could someone confirm to me if the 03 A332 to GRU are regular? As far as I know thay are operating under non-regular frequencies for a short period of time.

User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4927 times:

JJMNGR,
Are you talking about Air France three weekly additional A332 service?
If so, they are effective only as of October 30/2005 up to March 24/2006.



Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4915 times:
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Quoting Brasuca (Reply 6):
JJMNGR,
Are you talking about Air France three weekly additional A332 service?
If so, they are effective only as of October 30/2005 up to March 24/2006.

Right. It's a seasonal service. We must take a look on AF's code-share decision. If they decide to stay with JJ (GRU), so we can see a second daily flight (depending on bilateral). If they start G3 code-share (GIG), we could see even a second flight at GIG.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3):
REC is an interesting hub, the most important capital in Northeast Brazil, and has an excellent airport with state-of-the-art facilities, much superior to GRU

Despire REC is by far the best northeast airport, REC keep number 2 in the region, just after SSA. And also, SSA keep the biggest hotel room availability in the region. That's an issue REC must keep looking to improve their hotel network.

Best Regards,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4865 times:

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 6):
about Air France three weekly additional A332 service?
If so, they are effective only as of October 30/2005 up to March 24/2006



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
Right. It's a seasonal service. We must take a look on AF's code-share decision. If they decide to stay with JJ (GRU), so we can see a second daily flight (depending on bilateral). If they start G3 code-share (GIG), we could see even a second flight at GIG.

AF already stated that the 3 additional A330 flights to GRU will be turned to regular after March/06 (performance so far has been strong and ahead booking are healthy). AF has the aim to increase GRU flights to two daily flights. As far as I know, there is almost no chance AF will relocate the additional GRU flights to another destinations (i.e. GIG), even taking account of the AF-G3 agreement in GIG.

Although AF is doing extremely well in GIG (flights ARE ALWAYS FULL), additional frequencies to GIG would undermine AF yields. It is a fact that although loads to GIG are high (INCLUDING BUSINESS), AF has a problem with a lot of non-paid tickets to GIG (staff relatives plus miles ticket are widely used on the GIG route which brings yields down).

In my opinion AF should make a slight change in its routes to Brazil. The additional frequencies to GRU should continue onwards to GIG operating CDG-GRU-GIG. This could be a good solution wihtout hurting too much GIG operatinons.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
Despire REC is by far the best northeast airport, REC keep number 2 in the region, just after SSA.

Interesting, that's why an AF internal source told me that AF plans in Brazil in terms of a new market would be SSA (and not REC).


User currently offlinePPSMA From Brazil, joined Aug 2005, 157 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

Hey guys

Here´s some food for thought:

Yield versus load

It´s a norm that non-stop, scheduled international flights originating/ending in REC and SSA are offered with higher fares when compared to one or multi stop flights via GIG and GRU. Most surely that means over-the-average yield.

HOWEVER bear in mind that the potential travelling market ORIGINATING in the region is infinitely smaller than in the southern region and that can be translated in good INBOUND / poor OUTBOUND traffic volume !

If it were otherwise, AF would have NEVER pulled out of REC years ago. I remember flying once GRU-GIG-REC-CDG ( ouch!) and the REC-PAR leg looked a lot like a tour bus, with people who seemed to have come straight from the beach because they couldn´t afford an additional hotel room rate.

I can understand JJ giving it a go for 2 reasons: they have a strong domestic market to feed in these flights (but not enough to fill up dailies) and they can use the same plane on a domestic flight as part of an international flight (VERY clever indeed!), so while they add frequency to REC they also manage to maintain a high acft utilization rate.

I don´t mean to say that this is what it´s going to be - perhaps this will be considered and traded as an international flight overall, which I very much doubt will work for one simple reason: people originating/connecting in GRU will avoid a stopover flight at all costs simply because there are plenty of non-stop options to choose from!

Having said that, I am really curious to see if this new service will really last!

Hey Hardiwv, what do you say?

Abraços,

Domenico

P.S.: Lipe, your ticket is already issued and is lookin´good!  bouncy 



Aviation is my thing!
User currently offlineAwysBSB From Brazil, joined Sep 2005, 561 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4827 times:

I believe that if the flights AF456/AF459 (CDG/GRU - GRU/CDG) started to make commercial stops at REC, Air France wouldn’t need increase anymore its capacity to/from GIG and could extend to REC its code-share agreements with TAM (as JJ will start to operate REC/CDG – CDG/REC).
A great number of the passengers that flies between CDG and GIG have their destination and/or origin in the Midwestern and Northeastern Brazil, and all those passengers would prefer to have their connections in REC in spite of GIG.

[Edited 2005-10-15 15:58:13]

[Edited 2005-10-15 15:59:55]

User currently offlineJJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4783 times:

Brasuca,

Yes, I meant that...thanks a lot.

Some of you are saying that they might become regular. But what about bilateral agreement? Are there open frequencies? It was not easy for TAM to get 14 x week due no bilateral opened. Why should it be opened for OAF?
What a hell of bilateral is this?
Someone could help me on this?

Cheers.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11641 posts, RR: 61
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4780 times:

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 2):
Very soon!!! US-Brazil Bilateral is already under revision and extra flights will be granted to US carriers.

Timeframe?!?!

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 2):
Other airports are to be announced and you can expect a flood of flights launched to secondary cities next year from TP, AA, DL, LH, G3 (BSB, MCZ, MAO, CNF)... It's extremely tiring making detours to GRU.

I really can't see too much growth in non-GRU/GIG flying for U.S. carriers beyond AA through MIA. MIA can generate huge O&D traffic and higher yields, but I really don't think any other airlines could take advantage of access to these markets. Maybe -- maybe -- DL might be able to fill up a flight through ATL a few times a week, but I personally think even that is a stretch.


User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4746 times:

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 11):
Some of you are saying that they might become regular. But what about bilateral agreement? Are there open frequencies? It was not easy for TAM to get 14 x week due no bilateral opened. Why should it be opened for OAF?
What a hell of bilateral is this?
Someone could help me on this?

I don't have a clue about France-Brazil bilateral, but it looks like both countries will have the same number of daily frequencies:
> AF: 2 x CDG-GRU + 1 x CDG-GIG
> JJ: 2 x GRU-CDG + RG 1 x GIG-GRU-CDG

Quoting Commavia (Reply 12):
Timeframe?!?!

Beginning of Next year.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 12):
I really can't see too much growth in non-GRU/GIG flying for U.S. carriers beyond AA through MIA

I can't either, but DELTA can. They have stated that they intend to fly to Brazilian NE.
Especially after DELTA launched GIG. The only DL's flight to GIG carries more pax than their 2 flights to GRU summed up, so IMO they would transfer one of GRU's flights to anywhere else, but not before the extra flights concession will be granted, so that they can get those extras too.
I don't know what they would do with all those slots, but it's strategy! CO, UA, DL or AA will grab any slot free slot they can.

[Edited 2005-10-15 19:32:15]


Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4736 times:
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Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 11):
It was not easy for TAM to get 14 x week due no bilateral opened. Why should it be opened for OAF?



Quoting Brasuca (Reply 13):
I don't have a clue about France-Brazil bilateral, but it looks like both countries will have the same number of daily frequencies:
> AF: 2 x CDG-GRU + 1 x CDG-GIG
> JJ: 2 x GRU-CDG + RG 1 x GIG-GRU-CDG

As AF is using only 14 nowadays (growing to 17), they keep with space for improvements.

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 13):
I can't either, but DELTA can. They have stated that they intend to fly to Brazilian NE.
Especially after DELTA launched GIG. The only DL's flight to GIG carries more pax than their 2 flights to GRU summed up, so IMO they would transfer one of GRU's flights to anywhere else, but not before the extra flights concession will be granted, so that they can get those extras too.

Also, DL do not offer code-share in Brazil, they obtain good rates but it's not the same as RG and JJ. A 3x Weekly service REC, FOR "OR" SSA could be a good route. Remember that FOR-LIS is a daily flight, i don't think someone from FOR would like to go to SAO/RIO spending 3 hours in a flight, 3 to 4 hours waiting for the flight to MIA, and more 9 hours while they can go to Europe in a 6h flight.
Visa requirement is also a big problem, someone from FOR need to go to REC to ask for a visa (and they don't know if they can obtain it!).
Changes on this scenario could improve market for US visitors from northeast (i.e. direct flights). But i believe US-Northeast market will represent more than 70% of the demand.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
Although AF is doing extremely well in GIG (flights ARE ALWAYS FULL), additional frequencies to GIG would undermine AF yields. It is a fact that although loads to GIG are high (INCLUDING BUSINESS), AF has a problem with a lot of non-paid tickets to GIG (staff relatives plus miles ticket are widely used on the GIG route which brings yields down).

Hardi, allow me to disagree. AF is highly impressed (well) with Rio route. They change the aircraft from A343 to 744 a year ago, giving to Rio a major 60% increase in seats. After no more than 30 days, the demand goes to top and keep the flight with the high loads you already know.
A couple of months ago, AF has changed the settings on 744 and give to Rio more 21% offer, and again, in less than 30 days, the market "took" the additional offer, and even in low season the flight keep with more than 420 pax per day, with the C class full all the days.
There are plans on AF for an increase in GIG (it could be even the A380 in the future) as Rio at the same time keep as final destination of at least 33% of pax from AMS-GRU flight (boarding thru RG and JJ). Also, AF is all times granting special fares from GRU to CDG, never to/from GIG. It's hard to obtain a Y ticket for less than US$ 900 while you can get a GRU-CDG for US$ 780 nowadays (and remember that today AF keep code-share for GRU flight, not for GIG flight!).
Agree that GIG keep more Frequence Plus Tickets (but i believe its relative to the large 744 capacity, and we can't compare Rio to Sao Paulo as a touristic destination, i believe 8 to 10 pax would spend holidays in Rio).
I can't see with the code share with Gol (and imagine how many people could be added to the route) how AF could take care of extra demand without increasing the offer.
GRU could even receive the second flight, but i believe it will corrupt yields and loads for the 772 flight. There are excessive demand on GRU at this time to CDG. I believe Friday night is one of the top days in the week (could be the top one) for Biz traffic, and TAM has just included a stop in one GRU-CDG flight, the same day AF will run a new A332 flight (the only one with 3 classes, as the other 2 will be C+Y only). No make sense.

In fact we have to wait to take a good picture on Brazil-France route, but this year (dec-mar) will be +21% in GIG and +45% in GRU in increase. GRU-CDG increase is probably the higher in Brazil market.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4716 times:

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 13):
The only DL's flight to GIG carries more pax than their 2 flights to GRU summed up



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):
with the C class full all the days.



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):
There are plans on AF for an increase in GIG

Felipe, I got your point and I am aware GIG is performing well, but absolutely NO airline would compromise their operations in GRU for the GIG market, and this goes for AF as well. Although AF's flight to GIG is a huge success, AF needs the GRU market which is the most important Brazilian market and where they can sell First Class. If you look at the configuration of AF's B772 to GRU you will note that half the a/c is biz/first!

Also, AF additional flights to GRU are, as expected, performing well and in no way are undermining yields. On the cotrary, AF recently stated that it plans to further increase GRU to two daily in 2006.

As for GIG, I dont think AF will increase flights to GIG in the near future. They would rather open a new market such as SSA.

The fact that AF selected GRU intead of GIG for the additional flights speaks for itslelf: everybody is fighting for a share of Sao Paulo's profitable business traffic!

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4698 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 15):
The fact that AF selected GRU intead of GIG for the additional flights speaks for itslelf: everybody is fighting for a share of Sao Paulo's profitable business traffic!

I respect your opinion. Remember that GRU is nowadays Brazilian Hub. If you take a look on top 10 freench companies in Brazil you will see: 4 from Sao Paulo (Carrefour, Coinbra, Rhodia and Alstom), 3 from Rio (Light/EDF, Peugeot-Citroen and Saint Gobain), 1 from Minas (V&M), 1 from Parana (Renault) and 1 from Santa Catarina (Frangosul).
Now Minas, Santa Catarina and Parana (among all others) connects thru GRU. GRU is an important (the top) market for Biz due to the market concentration. Sao Paulo is the stronger market but not more than 40% of GRU pax are from SAO. Lets see in one year.

Rgds,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4676 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 16):
Sao Paulo is the stronger market but not more than 40% of GRU pax are from SAO

Yes, but this 40% pax-base is extremely high-yieling that you cannot compare to any other place in Brazil.

Still, I would doubt about your figure of 40%. In the case of KLM, for example, Sao Paulo based pax make about 70-80% of the flight sometimes higher. I'm sure this is the case of other airlines such as LX. Sao Paulo is the most important market and no airline will ever compromise its presence there; as we could see indications are that the SAO hub will grow more and more every year with GIG coming as a first secondary option (see DL or AF which decided first to increase GRU to two daily and only after venture on GIG flights); and SSA and/or REC as tertiary option.

Rgs,


User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4662 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
we could see indications are that the SAO hub will grow more and more every year

SAO will certainly grow as a Hub, but just because air traffic demand is increasing. However the growth rate in SAO will certainly decrease.

Airlines still fear venturing other markets, even though they are profitable. But they are gradually introducing flights to others than SAO. We've never seen so much interest in secondary cities (not only GIG).
We agree that SAO is the most important market in Brazil, but flights are excessively concentrated in GRU/CGH that relies more than half of traffic on connections. Just compare GRU demand (40%) with its traffic congestion - it's inconceivable!



Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4641 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
Yes, but this 40% pax-base is extremely high-yieling that you cannot compare to any other place in Brazil.

Still, I would doubt about your figure of 40%. In the case of KLM, for example, Sao Paulo based pax make about 70-80% of the flight sometimes higher. I'm sure this is the case of other airlines such as LX. Sao Paulo is the most important market and no airline will ever compromise its presence there

I can't doubt that Sao Paulo is the most important market for Business, but Hardi, please understand my point of view, it's not the only one. That's why flights "off-GRU" are so well.

We can discuss during drinking lots of beers and we probably still discussing.

Two years ago SAO was more than 90% of all int'l flights, nowadays is close to 80% and IMO there is space for more diversification. Let's see in one or two years. Nothing is immediate.

Rgds,
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4575 times:
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Also, TAM probably will run a weekly frequency REC-JFK. It was a promisse Mr. Bologna (TAM's president) made to US-Brazil Chamber of Commerce in Recife.

It will take place only (IMO) when the flight become daily.

TAM is paying higher commission to agents (11% while RG keep paying 6%) for its new JFK route. Gifts like digital cameras are granted to agents for Premium Tickets sold.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIB787 From Spain, joined Jun 2005, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4571 times:

Any chances seeing TAM openning new destinations in Europe, what about LHR, AMS, FRA, LIS or MAD?

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4557 times:
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Quoting IB787 (Reply 21):
Any chances seeing TAM openning new destinations in Europe, what about LHR, AMS, FRA, LIS or MAD?

I can't see TAM runing LIS. But London and Frankfurt are in their wish list. Tam has tried Frankfurt in 99 but results were very bad and they decided to
stop. Nowadays with a stronger domestic network (they are ranked first), they could re-introduce FRA (an important biz destination). TAM will receive back 3 A332 next year. One will be used to improve JFK to daily, but for the other two nowadays we keep with only rumors.

FRA is a Star hub, and keeps 4 daily flights to Brazil. AMS and London are the worst served with only 2 daily flights. MAD keep almost 28 weekly flights (14 with IB, 7 RG, 4 PU and more charters and weekly service to SSA/REC/NAT). LIS is very well served by TP with 40 weekly flights.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4540 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):
AMS and London are the worst served with only 2 daily flights

I agree with Felipe. I see as potential TAM destinations in Europe: LON, ZRH, AMS. But of course it all depends on agreements with other airlines. But I have the feeling LON will be next through a codeshare with VS; AMS is also possible since KL and TAM have a good partnership.

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4536 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 23):
But I have the feeling LON will be next through a codeshare with VS; AMS is also possible since KL and TAM have a good partnership.

A new flight to LON could hit more RG as i saw very low loads on BA (but i expect to see on BA very high yield Biz and First loads). I see TAM facing some difficults on JFK route (because for JFK they are facing high level equipments, something that MIA and CDG do not present at time JJ start the routes). Tam could take a good Biz traffic (they are the only one with lie-seats), but Economy will be not so full during the first months.
LON and AMS could be another good option as RG use M11's without IFE for Economy and bad Biz seats. Both will "hurt" partners (BA, strong partner of AA and KLM/AF), so Tam probably will be very carefully. We can even see Tam flying to MAD just to avoid "problems" with partners.
Hardi, the only market i wouldn't bet on JJ new flight is Germany. All the other are possible, as well as California, where they keep a store (despite the closer plane arives only in MIA). Even New York only get a store on October (i tried to change my ticket in NYC).
Tam will be in condition to start a new route in the mid-2006 when they receive back 2 A332 from Etihad. Both are non-AVOD equipment.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 Brasuca : TAM new destinations? To London -> Whereas VARIG is doing good, British is not. So TAM entrance would post losses for all of them: RG, BA and JJ. To M
26 Hardiwv : This is not correct. BA is doing extremely well in Brazil. This year BA reported that GRU was one of their top performing destinations in Biz/First,
27 Brasuca : I meant in exactly in Y, which is not performing high loads. Ok, I know C and F counts more. These days, I am checking prices from Brazil to Europe,
28 AwysBSB : I hope REC really becomes a world-class hub! It seems the Livingston`s weekly charter between MXP and REC became scheduled, but according to amadeus.n
29 Post contains links Hardiwv : I have factual information that BA is doing very well on its flights to GRU in biz and first. Why do you think they replaced the B772 with the B747?
30 Post contains links Brasuca : I wonder it too. They've cancelled a substantial number of routes, who knows it's because of idle aircraft. Maybe some yield, but definitely not good
31 Post contains links Hardiwv : Certainly this is NOT the case. You cannot state that an airline has poor loads because you only look at ONE flight. On the contrary, BA has NO iddle
32 Brasuca : I know. It was not only ONE flight, but several. I'd rather believe in figures than in the company's advertisement. Maybe I should have made clearer
33 Hardiwv : Nadson, I got your point but I simply cant believe in the fact that RG is doing better to LHR than BA. Maybe RG is performing better in Y, but this d
34 Post contains images Brasuca : Maybe your Signature in A.net explains why you can't believe it (T.M.R.C.) hehe As I have said, AF, KL, AZ, IB, LH and RG are doing extremely well in
35 Hardiwv : And I repeat: BA is doing extremely well in GRU and 2004 was BA's most profitable year in GRU in its 20 years of operations there. It is a salient fa
36 Post contains images Brasuca : Hardiwv, Then we agree to disagree. [Just sent you pvt msg]
37 Post contains images Hardiwv : ok! (did you sent it to orkut?) Rgs,
38 Hardiwv : Brasuca (Nadson): I got BA loads information for the flight today and tomorrow to GRU and they look as follows: LHR London Heathrow UK [EGLL] GRU Sao
39 Neo : I don't think LH is doing so well in loads either. According to LipeGiG numbers they show quite weak numbers (in general) as well. DLH 0502 FRA 0430
40 Hardiwv : See official BA number in the previous reply. BA is doing extremely well in GRU. Rgs,
41 LipeGIG : Hardi , today they arrive GRU with 154 pax , 54 of them to GIG. I don't know how many F and C seats they have and how much were sold. BA is a top Biz
42 Hardiwv : Felipe, the information from Infraero therefore is WRONG - Infraero does not even keep this type of information, whcih the airlines ONLY disclose (of
43 Neo : Hey Hardi, can you explain me what do all these letters (classes) and numbers mean (seats available)? I only recognize F, J, C and Y classes, what ar
44 Brasuca : No, you didn't get the loads, but only seats availability in those classes. I can show you even more examples. TAM flies two widebodies to CDG, while
45 Brasuca : Hardiwv, more numbers for you. VARIG ... LHR-GRU F0 A0 C0 D0 J0 Z0 Y0 B0 M0 H0 Q0 L0 V0 W0 G0 S0 (Oct 17) F0 A0 C0 D0 J0 Z0 Y0 B0 M0 H0 Q0 L0 V0 W0 G0
46 Post contains links Brasuca : I don't doubt British Airways is doing good in GRU, but in one Thread currently discussing why British Airways pulled out of Pittsburgh there is such
47 Post contains images Hardiwv : No, they represent LOADS and not AVAILABILTITY! Sorry to say but your numbers are WRONG. But I will not keep arguing. I also have information and BA
48 Post contains images Brasuca : Hardiwv, Ok. As I have already said, we agree to disagree. But there's just no reason why your numbers are correct and mine are not. Maybe for lack of
49 LipeGIG : Hardi, i agree that BA LHR-GRU-GIG/EZE is very profitable. Cargo + Biz traffic and also its a low season month ! But i agree that nowadays RG is doin
50 Post contains images Hardiwv : Nadson: this is not true. I think who showed the facts was me, while you only showed loads in one or two flights, which in my opinion were incorrect
51 Post contains images Brasuca : So.. Viva British Airways and their "high" loads How sweet!
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