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Optimistic (wrong!) PW Claim About The A330  
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6926 posts, RR: 63
Posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2971 times:

Moved by the very rare announcement of a new order for PW engines (today's announcement by Eurofly that they are leasing two more A330s), I was browsing the PW website and found this...

PW4000 100-inch fan engines have accumulated more than three million hours of revenue service and are the leading engine on the A330. The engine is built to provide maximum value and its success is reflected by its continued dominance in the A330 market.

Hmmm.

PW have sold 163 A330s to airlines and RR 218. (GE have sold 131.)
PW have delivered 123 A330s and RR 151. (GE have delivered 100.)

I struggle to remember the last new customer PW signed for the A330 but it was surely several years ago. During that time, both GE and RR have chalked up several new customers each.

Interesting spin to suggest that this is "market dominance" but if it makes them feel better... It's also quite telling that the most recent press release they can find to put on the PW4000-100 page is from June 2002.

None of this matters much but the bottom line is that PW are claiming something on their website that isn't just marketing spin, it's simply not true!

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2938 times:

Quoting PM (Thread starter):
None of this matters much

Quite right....puffery, nothing more. Seems to me there's a couple of airframe manufacturers who indulge in a little bit of the blarney from time to time don't they? Not to mention the teevee commercial running here in the states with a woodchuck and a buncha animals cheering for GE's recent conversion to "green" technology. You saw through it....



All it proves is that there's more horse's asses than there are horses.


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12573 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2910 times:
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By your figures there's only 28 engines difference in the "in service" numbers. That represents, at best, 14 planes. It is entirely possible that the PW powered A330s have accumulated more flying hours than the RR ones. This could easily be true if more of the PW planes were flying earlier (if you see what I mean).

If they have the most flying hours, they can probably claim to be the "lead engine". For the time being anyway.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.  wink 



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6926 posts, RR: 63
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2853 times:

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 2):
By your figures there's only 28 engines difference in the "in service" numbers. That represents, at best, 14 planes. It is entirely possible that the PW powered A330s have accumulated more flying hours than the RR ones. This could easily be true if more of the PW planes were flying earlier (if you see what I mean).

Absolutely and PW did have a good lead over RR in the early days. So, yes, I have no trouble accepting that they've accumulated more hours than the Trent 700 so far. But "...continued dominance in the A330 market."??? None of the three engine manufacturers can honestly claim "dominance" but RR have an appreciable lead in both orders and deliveries and have picked up many new customers in recent years whereas PW haven't really picked up any. It is stretching a point way beyond credibility for PW to pretend that they "dominate" the A330 market. At best they're whistling in the dark while their market share is in freefall.


User currently offlineIvo From Belgium, joined Sep 2000, 470 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2606 times:

The only PW powered A330 to be delivered are Northwest A330-223/323X
and Asiana c/n 708 A330-323X ; LTU c/n 739 A330-223; Air Caraibes c/n 758
A330-323X.

Ivo


User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3613 posts, RR: 29
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2555 times:

There are still 3 PW powered A330s stored in CGN. I don't know why exactly, but one thing is for sure: If there was demand, they would fly!

User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25546 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2474 times:

Keep in mind that aircraft sold, does not neccasarily mean number of engines sold. Extra engines are always purchased to keep as spares, cover planned overhauls and such. In addition there are a few engine pools in the industry including a large one run by MTU covering the PW4000 engine for A330 operators.

Their claim could very well be true that PW as sold more PW engines for the A330 program then its competitors.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2406 times:

I'm sure they've just been in no rush to change their website since losing ground.

I don't really get all the insistence that what these major faceless corporations put out in marketing is some sort of gospel.

N


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6926 posts, RR: 63
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2285 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 6):
Their claim could very well be true that PW as sold more PW engines for the A330 program then its competitors.

Yes, sure. Airlines buy spares as well as engines on the wing. But I presume that RR and GE operators buy more or less as many spares spares as PW operators. Then again, maybe not. So if RR have delivered 30-odd planes more than PW (i.e. 60 engines) but PW have sold more engines because of all the spares airlines need then it doesn't say much for their reliability!!!

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 7):
I don't really get all the insistence that what these major faceless corporations put out in marketing is some sort of gospel.

No, but I think we are entitled to expect them not to put out plain untruths - or even to leave them on their website three years after they ceased to be true! If Airbus claimed that more A330s had been sold than 777s would we just shrug and put it down to corporate spin? If RR claimed that the RB211 was the most popular engine on the 767 would we smile and gently chide RR for bending the truth? I can't see by any stretch of the imagination how PW can claim to "continue" to "dominate" the A330 programme. At worst, it's a flat lie. At best, since it clearly isn't true, it calls into question every other assertion on their website. Either way, it doesn't reflect well on them. That's all.


User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4774 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2243 times:
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Quoting Ivo (Reply 4):
The only PW powered A330 to be delivered are Northwest A330-223/323X
and Asiana c/n 708 A330-323X ; LTU c/n 739 A330-223; Air Caraibes c/n 758
A330-323X

TG, MH were very early A333 operators and use Pratt, KE was also quite early too.


User currently offlineCEO@AFG From Norway, joined Jan 2001, 245 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2222 times:

What's the big advantages/disadvantages between the three engines on offer for the A330?

From what I can tell from the manufacturers websites, Rolls Royce has the most powerful engine option, and Pratt & Whitney the least powerful engine option.



"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue." Steven McCroskey, Airplane!
User currently offlineIvo From Belgium, joined Sep 2000, 470 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2125 times:

TREK8,

Those aircraft are the only PW ones still to be delivered at the moment.

Ivo


User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2106 times:

So here's the question...it looks like the last news item on the page for the PW4000-100 is from 2002. Who was the leader on the A330 family at that time? It's very easy for me to believe they haven't gone and updated this page since then. Chances are the webmaster just doesn't care, either. They'd need to get the PR folks to write up something new...it's a hassle for everyone, if anyone even bothered to look.


There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2085 times:

Quoting Ivo (Reply 4):
The only PW powered A330 to be delivered are Northwest A330-223/323X
and Asiana c/n 708 A330-323X ; LTU c/n 739 A330-223; Air Caraibes c/n 758
A330-323X.

NW's A330's are some of the nicest looking planes in the world... yes 


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"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2021 times:

Quoting Ivo (Reply 4):
The only PW powered A330 to be delivered are Northwest A330-223/323X
and Asiana c/n 708 A330-323X ; LTU c/n 739 A330-223; Air Caraibes c/n 758
A330-323X.

US Airways (though certainly not PW's biggest fan) has 10 PW-powered A330-200s on order for delivery in 2009-10.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4774 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1927 times:
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Quoting Ivo (Reply 11):
Those aircraft are the only PW ones still to be delivered at the moment

sorry, should have read the post more closely!


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