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The New US Airways European Expansion?  
User currently offlineMarkdirk From Canada, joined Sep 2004, 99 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9285 times:

With all the major airlines looking to overseas flight expansions and cutting back on domestic, and with a recent explosion of announcements from CO, DL, NW, UA etc. has anyone heard if US Airways is going to expand further with either more flights to current European destinations or new destinations as part of "The New US Airways" Business plan?

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4588 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9269 times:

Will this be the first international low cost carrier in the U.S.? If they are can they afford to fly in to more expensive airports and maintain low prices? Or will they keep traditional pricing on international flights?


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9261 times:

Quoting Markdirk (Thread starter):
has anyone heard if US Airways is going to expand further with either more flights to current European destinations or new destinations as part of "The New US Airways" Business plan?

They'll need more widebodies, first. Their 757's aren't ETOPS, and their widebody fleet is pretty tiny and gets stretched pretty hard in the summer peak season.


User currently offlineBrokenrecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9217 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 1):
If they are can they afford to fly in to more expensive airports and maintain low prices? Or will they keep traditional pricing on international flights?

My guess is that coach fares will be lowered, and Envoy fares will rise.

As it stands now, US is very competitive price-wise in the biz class market. For example:

ORF-DOH, Unrestricted business class

AA/BA averages $10,000
NW/KL averages $8,000
US/LH (QR codeshare) averages $7,000, and I have seen as low as $6,000


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9196 times:

brokenrecord: where's DOH? The mouse-over doesn't know that one, and nor do I.

User currently offlineFewsolarge From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9186 times:

Doh! It's the capital of Qatar (Doha).

User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9177 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
They'll need more widebodies, first. Their 757's aren't ETOPS,

Some of their 757's will be ETOPS cert'ed begining this month. These are the planes that will be used for Hawaii however.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineBrokenrecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9154 times:

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 5):
Doh! It's the capital of Qatar (Doha).

HAHAHAHA!! Correct answer though.  Smile


User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9153 times:

When US expands their fleet, maybe they should look into some pacific side expansion. They already fly to some very key cities in Europe. But routes to places like HKG and NRT might be order.. Right now as mentioned their longhaul fleet is pretty tight, further expansion is going to be easy..


There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9170 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 1):
Or will they keep traditional pricing on international flights?

Yes, US Airways has plans to make a few things in order over the next few years. Routes such as SFO, LAX, SEA will all maintain a more "traditional" price tag as you may. Routes such as LAS, SAN, DEN will be going more and more via the "new" price structure for US Airways.

Look no further than United Airlines and TED to see how things will/may be done by US Airways in the future. International service is US Airways bread and butter for the moment, dont look for it to evaporate overnight, or for US Airways to go all Economy overseas.

Keep in mind that US Airways is a key player in Star Alliance, it would not be, if it were a sole Low Cost, one class airline.

Quoting Indy (Reply 1):
If they are can they afford to fly in to more expensive airports and maintain low prices?

US Airways has established relationships in all markets that it serves. There are going to be a few additions over the next couple of years to existing European gateways for US Airways. Namely look for routes such as PHX-LGW, PHX-FRA, LAS-FRA, and PHL-VIE to come into play. It is strongly being discussed that the likes of PHL-AMS, and PHL-CDG will be reduced in the coming years.

The goal, or current vision is for all airlines to meet in the European and North American gateways of Star Alliance partners. This would mean linking cities such as Phoenix with Frankfurt, and Las Vegas with Frankfurt. These routes would taken the burden off of Lufthansa to not be so North American heavy, and concentrate their resources elsewhere.

So instead of US Airways operating a dozen or so European gateways, they can focus on only the European gateways with heavy Summer Traffic, or Year Round alliance feed.

KAHALA777


User currently offlineCaptaink From Mexico, joined May 2001, 5109 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9104 times:

Sounds like a pretty good plan Kahala777. Why are routes like CDG and AMS being reduced? Especially CDG? Would these routes be picked out of another hub city or something? Are all US European routes money making?


There is something special about planes....
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9093 times:

Quoting Captaink (Reply 10):
Sounds like a pretty good plan Kahala777. Why are routes like CDG and AMS being reduced? Especially CDG? Would these routes be picked out of another hub city or something? Are all US European routes money making?

To be honest, what I am hearing is from the Lufthansa side of things. I would not count the word for Gold, but considering that my source has been at Lufthansa for a good 17 years, I can count it as valuable information. My only guess as to a loss of Amsterdam, is no connecting traffic. My guess to Paris, is that the connecting traffic is limited to Lufthansa and Air Dolomiti routes that can be reached by Frankfurt and Munich instead. Routes such as Barcelona and Venice are good moneymakers in Summer, as they are contract driven with Cruise and Tour operators. So in most cases the routes go out being paid for, full or not.

KAHALA777


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9043 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 1):
Will this be the first international low cost carrier in the U.S.?

PeoplExpress was.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4615 posts, RR: 23
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 9016 times:

Some chatter about the US-West ETOPS 757s being used to take over SNN and DUB, which would open the 767s up on those routes for others.

User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8819 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 9):
It is strongly being discussed that the likes of PHL-AMS, and PHL-CDG will be reduced in the coming years.

I don't understand why they would drop a no-competiton route like PHL-AMS - maybe reduce it to summer only. As far as PHL-CDG is concerned, if they dropped it, AF would just pick up the overflow with either greater frequency or a larger AC. Can't understand why they would give away that business. I believe both of these routes are quite profitable, especially PHL-CDG, which I have flown twice this year in full Envoy both times.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 9):

The goal, or current vision is for all airlines to meet in the European and North American gateways of Star Alliance partners. This would mean linking cities such as Phoenix with Frankfurt, and Las Vegas with Frankfurt. These routes would taken the burden off of Lufthansa to not be so North American heavy, and concentrate their resources elsewhere.

Don't understand this logic. PHX is not served by LH and LAS only has 2x Condor flights with a 767 - no burden to LH.


User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8764 times:

Quoting Markdirk (Thread starter):
With all the major airlines looking to overseas flight expansions and cutting back on domestic, and with a recent explosion of announcements from CO, DL, NW, UA etc. has anyone heard if US Airways is going to expand further with either more flights to current European destinations or new destinations as part of "The New US Airways" Business plan?

Unfortunately US is not in the same boat as CO or DL, regarding available long range aircraft. They'll more than likely refine the existing European routes (drop + add = net) and have to wait for the 350's or ? to do anything more substantial. I think a lot of people are very interested in what the combined airline's European strategy will be. Unfortunately, if US waits 3 or 4 years to significantly expand internationally, CO and others will eat their lunch.


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3284 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8697 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 9):
These routes would taken the burden off of Lufthansa to not be so North American heavy, and concentrate their resources elsewhere.

And why would LH not try to grow more in the US? They already have a large USA network - I would think they'd be looking to grow to new cities?



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8694 times:

Quoting Captaink (Reply 10):
Sounds like a pretty good plan Kahala777.

Don't feed the troll.  Wink

Quoting Captaink (Reply 10):
Why are routes like CDG and AMS being reduced?

AMS is by far the worst-performing year-round transatlantic station. I wouldn't be shocked to see it go, but I don't expect it to, either.

CDG won't be going anywhere. US has already cut their CDG frequencies from a high of 4x daily to the current 1x daily. The remaining flight does very well.

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 13):
Some chatter about the US-West ETOPS 757s being used to take over SNN and DUB, which would open the 767s up on those routes for others.

What I've heard is that HP 757s will be used for SNN and one new station, probably BHX. That would free up a 767 for a new station, probably VIE. DUB performs well enough, it's SNN that is the disaster. US would certainly not serve it at all if they didn't have to.

In the alternative, if they don't go with the 757s to Europe, I've heard they might not return to Ireland next year at all. That would free up 2 767s, probably for VIE and ZRH.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8615 times:

Quoting Vega (Reply 15):
Unfortunately US is not in the same boat as CO or DL, regarding available long range aircraft. They'll more than likely... have to wait for the 350's or ? to do anything more substantial.

Well, US does have an order for 10 more A330s in the near future. These were slated to allow the airline to retire the aging Piedmont-era B762s, but it's conceivable that US could, as a stopgap, use the freed-up 762s to expand service to Europe until the A350s become available. A perfect solution? No, but certainly better than nothing.

That, or as mentioned, they could use the fleet of 13 US-West B752s to fly long-thin transatlantic routes, again as a stopgap in lieu of the new Airbuses.



USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8604 times:

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 18):
That, or as mentioned, they could use the fleet of 13 US-West B752s to fly long-thin transatlantic routes, again as a stopgap in lieu of the new Airbuses.

Not quite. The ALPA transition agreement only permits 2 aircraft on the HP certificate to fly to Europe until the operational merger, which is why there's only talk of the HP birds flying 2 routes. (It also technically prohibits HP service replacing US service to an existing destination like SNN, but I don't see that as a big problem.)

And if they did put 757s on thinner routes like SNN or BHX, they would remain 757s even after the newer widebodies arrived. SNN can't support a B762ER, it certainly can't support a much larger A358.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineBrokenrecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8455 times:

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 18):
Well, US does have an order for 10 more A330s in the near future.

Don't forget about the 350's coming too...


User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3052 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8419 times:

US Airways over the past few years has carefully being "tweaking" their European routes, and you can be pretty sure any route operated by an A330 is pretty secure and will not be dropped... Otherewise it would be operated by a 762.

CDG is operated by an A330 and can not imagaine that route will be dropped. If it is reduced the worst that would happen would be a 762 operating the route.

How do the DUB and SNN routes fair?, is it really necessary to have 767's flying to Ireland. Surely it would be worthwhile these being placed or routes to major European cities not currently covered.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8362 times:

Quoting Brokenrecord (Reply 20):
Don't forget about the 350's coming too...

Too long of a wait for what's still a paper airplane. US needs these birds like tomorrow, to get a foot in the door before CO "eats their lunch" as was previously said, so they'll either need to expedite the operational merger (doubt that its possible) or try to sweet-talk Airbus into hastening the A330's (also not very likely given the financing from Airbus previously and whatnot)


User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3312 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8322 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 17):
What I've heard is that HP 757s will be used for SNN and one new station, probably BHX. That would free up a 767 for a new station, probably VIE. DUB performs well enough, it's SNN that is the disaster. US would certainly not serve it at all if they didn't have to.

Don't forget BRU as a possibility.



.......
User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2893 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8219 times:

How about a new flight to India, say PHL-MAN-BOM, hitting all major textile cities in the world [barring China ofcourse] I am sure this route will be a profitable one, especially if they code share for European flights with BMI from their MAN hub, and for USA they have their own Philly hub.

25 A330323X : As I said in Reply 17, DUB performs well, but SNN loses money. The first year they operated, they were hoping for SNN to break-even and DUB to make m
26 Post contains images Tornado82 : If you're going to run WAW, that should be the resumption of PIT-Europe service. It'll throw a bone to Allegheny County... while connecting the huge
27 BigGSFO : I know it's not Europe, but any thoughts HP/US would look across the other ocean and launch a PHX-NRT flight?
28 VS747SPUR : Does anyone know how well the US flights from Charlotte and Philadelphia to LGW are doing ? Many thanks, VS747SPUR
29 VSFLYER747400 : We just had our US rep in the office and he said that loads arent doing too bad of late but wouldnt quote figures. He did mention that any expansion
30 US AIRWAYS : They are doing pretty well, at least from PHL. I usually check the loads during the week for the heck of it and they're usually about 60-80% full mid-
31 Airbazar : Speaking of US, I'll be flying with them shortly PHL-MUC on one of their 767's. How is their service like across the pond on these birds? Thanks.
32 Cloud4000 : Remember US Airways announced before the merger that it's returning nearly 60 planes to lessors. This may free up some cash flow to purchase new plane
33 PITA333 : Hahaha, Tornado82, I'm gald there are people like you on a.net who have as much Pittsburgh Pride as me!
34 Post contains images Tornado82 : Yes indeed, even if I did move to "that other side of PA" now. Just trying to lighten up A.net occassionally.
35 Post contains images F27XXX : Is THAT what that smell always is in Pittsburgh!?
36 WhiteHatter : Would have to be a second departure as the existing flight is the banker in the US portfolio at the moment. Excellent yield. I can't see why it would
37 Adam T. : I'm a bit confused.....why does US have to serve SNN in addition to serve DUB? Is there some sort of law between the US and Ireland that says if an a
38 Jdwfloyd : Ireland requires that if an airline serves DUB they must equally serve SNN.
39 Captaink : Anybody has any idea why this is so? I mean it is pretty demanding of Ireland to want this? And some airlines really don't do so well on the SNN route
40 Cloud4000 : It’s Ireland way to improve the economy in the southern part of the country. I don’t think SNN needs protection any more, it’s a major maintenan
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