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US Airways/America West Apply For LAX-SJD  
User currently offlineNKMCO From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 96 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5336 times:

As stated in the application "The new US Airways is more fit, willing and able than ever to operate the new route to Mexico." They plan on using A-320 (150 seats) on this route.

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf93/356921_web.pdf

[Edited 2005-10-18 20:21:43]

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26636 posts, RR: 75
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5321 times:

Quoting NKMCO (Thread starter):
As stated in the application "The new US Airways is more fit, willing and able than ever to operate the new route to Mexico. They plan on using A-320 (150 seats) on this route.

Yeah, sure they are. Is that why HP was so "fit, willing and able" to start then cut a bunch of flights out of LAX. I really hope United gets this route as it will be the third flag carrier on the route that actually gives a damn about LAX.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5294 times:

HP's routes out of LAX at the time didn't have the benefit of any East Coast connection or feed opportunities.

Now there are once again HP/US transcons ex-LAX... the company is reopening the US Club at Terminal 1 and I wouldn't be surprised to see a buildup of flights from there.



USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26636 posts, RR: 75
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5284 times:

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 2):

HP's routes out of LAX at the time didn't have the benefit of any East Coast connection or feed opportunities.

Um, I am mostly talking about their JFK and BOS routes, not just Canada (which they should not have dumped either). The airline has not shown the committment to LAX that UA, AA, AS and WN have. This goes back to when US squandered what they had with PSA and continued up through HP's aborted focus city.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineRage323machine From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 80 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5282 times:

It always sounded to me HP always wanted to step on Alaska airlines toes..Remember last year HP LAXYVR LAXPVR LAXMZT now they want LAXSJD.
HP no longer runs LAXMZT nor YVR(not so sure anyone can confirm?)

As for LAXSJD its a good route AS has 2 daily and run w/ good loads.

Would be nice to see them run that route


User currently offlineCa2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5199 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
The airline has not shown the committment to LAX that UA, AA, AS and WN have.

When destinations and service were bumped up at LAX, HP was hoping LAWA would provide better facilities, more gates and more support from the airport authority.

They did not receive any of that. We begged for international arrival gates at terminal 2, daily. Had to plead with WN for additional gates at terminal 1, daily....all while the company was trying to get 16 hours of utilization/day out of our aircraft.

You're mistaken, HP is very committed to the LA basin, especially LAX. The truth is, AA, UA, AS all have far superior facilities and better cooperation from the folks at LAWA and US Customs.

Unless you were actually there working in the trenches don't talk to me about HP not being committed to LAX.


User currently offlineCa2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5190 times:

Also keep in mind that HP and PSA are no comparison. PSA ran terminal 1. Now there are 3 carriers in that terminal.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26636 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5158 times:

Quoting Ca2ohHP (Reply 5):
When destinations and service were bumped up at LAX, HP was hoping LAWA would provide better facilities, more gates and more support from the airport authority.

HP has a prime position at LAX for O&D and plenty of gate space for the ops they were doing. Additionally, by buying US, they get a raft of underutilized gate space in the same terminal they were in this whole time.

Quoting Ca2ohHP (Reply 5):
We begged for international arrival gates at terminal 2, daily.

Um, you want gates at a full terminal that is controlled by airlines with a very long term lease on the facility? Good luck getting that. LAWA can't force the airlines that hold the lease on T2 to allocate FIS gates to HP, and those airlines need those gates for their own operations

Quoting Ca2ohHP (Reply 5):
You're mistaken, HP is very committed to the LA basin, especially LAX. The truth is, AA, UA, AS all have far superior facilities and better cooperation from the folks at LAWA and US Customs.

AS has far superior facilities? Have you ever been to Terminal 3? It is the absolute worst terminal at LAX, they just happen to be able to power back their Mexico MD-80s from their Bradley gates back to T3 in the alley. AA and UA have both shown a FAR greater commitement to using their dedicated and shared terminals at LAX, have invested their own money (particularly AA) in making those facilities world class and have far more flights at LAX that HP ever has.

Quoting Ca2ohHP (Reply 5):
Unless you were actually there working in the trenches don't talk to me about HP not being committed to LAX.

Hmm, lets see, I am a Los Angeles native and a frequent flyer who has seen the airlines that commit to the airport and those that dilly dally about.

Quoting Rage323machine (Reply 4):
HP no longer runs LAXMZT nor YVR(not so sure anyone can confirm?)

They dropped LAX-YVR

Quoting Ca2ohHP (Reply 6):
Also keep in mind that HP and PSA are no comparison. PSA ran terminal 1. Now there are 3 carriers in that terminal.

Except that US inherited their position at LAX along with PSA's operation when they purchased the airline, and then systematically dismantled the whole damn thing. That same US is now part of HP. HP doesn't ren near the operation PSA ran from T1, even combined with US, so they have no need at all for their own terminal



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCa2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5107 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
HP has a prime position at LAX for O&D and plenty of gate space for the ops they were doing. Additionally, by buying US, they get a raft of underutilized gate space in the same terminal they were in this whole time.

This was not an option last summer. On paper if every flight operated on-time it could have worked.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
Um, you want gates at a full terminal that is controlled by airlines with a very long term lease on the facility?

For two arrivals at 6:00pm? No, two gates. Terminal 2 gate allocations are overseen by Northwest Airlines.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
That same US is now part of HP.

Under HP management.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
so they have no need at all for their own terminal

Where did I say they needed their own terminal?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
This goes back to when US squandered what they had with PSA and continued up through HP's aborted focus city.

My response is based upon your accusation that US dismantled their LAX hub in the same fashion that HP is "aborting" their focus on LAX. The reality is that LAX will continue to be a very important piece to the new US.

LAX was not prepared for the influx of 4 international (YVR/YEG/MZT/PVR) departures/arrivals as well as 2x IAD, 3x JFK, 3x BOS. There were a number of reasons for that. HP had 2 dedicated gates (7 and 9). 11 and 4B were borrowed daily from WN, and for a short time 2 was as well.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13668 posts, RR: 61
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5044 times:
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Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 2):
HP's routes out of LAX at the time didn't have the benefit of any East Coast connection or feed opportunities.

Nor will it matter though. SJD isn't a traditional East Coast market, the same way CUN and CZM aren't traditional West Coast markets.

You make far more money if you can get your traffic to the beach within a swing of one time zone, maximum. The further you have to bring your feed from, the lower the returns.

Arguing about East Coast feed traffic in LAX to SJD is a straw man for HP/US.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4078 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5039 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
Hmm, lets see, I am a Los Angeles native and a frequent flyer who has seen the airlines that commit to the airport and those that dilly dally about.

Whether or not HP "cares" about LAX, it was a business decision to cut those focus city flights. If something is losing money then it's not a good idea to continue. I've heard people complain about HP giving up the CMH hub, that's fine and dandy except the hub was a financial black hole. If you want to make an omelet you have to crack a few eggs. LAX happened to be the eggs this time and now with this merger (which is running quite smoothly) we have a pretty big omelet.

Besides, how much more love does LAX need? One only needs to look at Flytecomm to see the answer to that one. Why not complain about B6 not flying transcons into LAX from BOS or JFK...which should logically be a lot more forthcoming than HP transcons.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26636 posts, RR: 75
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5010 times:

Quoting Ca2ohHP (Reply 8):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
Um, you want gates at a full terminal that is controlled by airlines with a very long term lease on the facility?

For two arrivals at 6:00pm? No, two gates. Terminal 2 gate allocations are overseen by Northwest Airlines.

Precisely, they (along with AC/NZ/HA) control access to that terminal and HP is just out of the mix. Terminal 2 is, along with Terminal 1, the most consistantly busy place at LAX all day, how in the hell are they going to be able to bring in more flights from HP?

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):
Arguing about East Coast feed traffic in LAX to SJD is a straw man for HP/US.

Totally. I mean, if they want to, UA can make a stronger argument for feed at LAX. The fact is, HP/US is trying to grab up a high yield market when they have abandoned everything other than hub flights over and over again. They can blame whatever they want, but just did not stick it out. LAWA is rather protective of capacity as they have shown with United's little stunt at T8, and if HP/US were to actually commit to anything, the airport would find a way to make it work. I mean, at least they want to use an A320 and not a CR9, but there is no reason to deny the hub carrier these flights.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4997 times:
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Quoting Ca2ohHP (Reply 5):

I didn't know this. Thanks for the information. Maybe US can do better on this route use the 320 vs. what HP was using in regards to ac. Those of us who fly and enjoy it and are enthusiasts will be the first to know ask or look at the type of ac utilized on routes, and I will be the first to avoid a CR9 vs a 739 that AS is operating. At the same time, it sounds like LAWA is making it difficult or has made it difficult for the ex HP to run their international flights no matter if mainline or express in regards to immigration clearance on inbound flights. It sounds like T1 tenants are having a lot of issues with another.

BTW, is T8 actively used by UA at the present time or is just for UAX and overflow?

LACA773


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26636 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4962 times:

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 12):
BTW, is T8 actively used by UA at the present time or is just for UAX and overflow?

I think a few Ted flights to LAS still go into the first gate in the terminal, but pretty much everything is a Brasillia or CRJ now

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 12):
At the same time, it sounds like LAWA is making it difficult or has made it difficult for the ex HP to run their international flights no matter if mainline or express in regards to immigration clearance on inbound flights.

LAWA is doing no such thing. HP are tennants are the most convinient terminal at LAX. The downside is, there is no FIS, as it was designed to be a domestic terminal. This means they have to park at an international terminal (2, Bradley, 4, 5, 6) and taxi the plane back over for departures. Since T2 is full, the closest place to go is Bradley. This is not LAWA's fault. Terminal 2's gates are not controlled directly by the airport, rather by the airlines that hold the master lease on the terminal. They are running full all day long as it is, so HP is not able to use the closer terminal. If HP/US are serious about LAX and want to expand, they should try and jump on T5 if LAWA wins in court and decides to evict Delta (which may or may not happen)



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4819 times:

I find it mildly amusing that both of US's outstanding Mexico applications are for routes that US has already served in the past.  Smile


I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2384 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4743 times:

The killing of the LAX-JFK/BOS route was a deal-breaker for me. It made HP's network useless. There's no way I'm going to connect in PHX or worse, LAS on my transcons.

AA and to a lesser extent UA get my transcon business now.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
If HP/US are serious about LAX and want to expand, they should try and jump on T5 if LAWA wins in court and decides to evict Delta (which may or may not happen)

I'm actually hoping that AA decides to expand into T5. I know it's a remote chance, but....

[Edited 2005-10-19 07:02:09]


The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4738 times:

That's good...I'm sure the route would do well. The ACA nonstop does.

A big reason why they are cutting flights out of LAX is because 1/2 of the Mesa CR9 fleet moved out east. We didn't have the mainline planes to make up for them. Some services were just cut to only a few days a week. I would hardly say they abandoned the market. It's all a matter of business.


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 4687 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
Additionally, by buying US, they get a raft of underutilized gate space in the same terminal they were in this whole time.

A raft of underutilized gate space? US was down to a grand total of one gate that wasn't already being shared with HP and/or WN.  Yeah sure

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 16):
That's good...I'm sure the route would do well. The ACA nonstop does.

Don't hold your breath. While the route would indeed do quite well, US won't get it. UA, or less likely CO, will get it. US's application is more attractive than F9 or DL, but third place might as well be dead last.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineB6FA4ever From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 818 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4667 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
They are running full all day long as it is, so HP is not able to use the closer terminal. If HP/US are serious about LAX and want to expand, they should try and jump on T5 if LAWA wins in court and decides to evict Delta (which may or may not happen)

hold up...how come LAWA is in court to evict DL? is it because DL isn't making lease pymts for T5? if their evicted...does that mean LAX is no longer a DL metal destination? (sorry to go off topic for a bit)

~B6FA4ever


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