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U.S., Canada To Start New Open Skies Talks  
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3240 times:

U.S., Canada to start new open skies talks
So my question - if they aren't going to talk about ownerhsip limits or cabotage, what is there to talk about?


"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
7 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 605 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3117 times:

The big hindrance in the current Canada - US bilateral is 5th freedoms. This could open a whole lot of interesting new routes from Canada via USA to Central and Latin America.


Retorne ao céu...
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3103 times:

Hadn't thougth of that, but since most bilaterals are based on reciprocity - what would Canada have to offer in return for the US giving up US originating traffic to these points?


"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineDCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 605 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3079 times:

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 2):
Hadn't thougth of that, but since most bilaterals are based on reciprocity - what would Canada have to offer in return for the US giving up US originating traffic to these points?

That is a good question. There isn't much beyond Canada except maybe the EU and Asia. Slim pickings at best especially since you would have to serve with large equipment. Nonetheless, the US will probably get unlimited 5ths beyond Canada to anywhere (eg. Europe and Asia realistically).



Retorne ao céu...
User currently offlineSebring From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 1666 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3089 times:

The U.S. carriers could make stops in Canada to pick up passengers en route to Asia. They could put their codes on Air Canada's international flights. This would be particularly appealing to US and UA which have Star Alliance relationships with AC.

Then, there is another issue in the negotiations that the U.S. side Wants. U.S. cargo carriers want co-terminal rights: the ability to send a freighter to more than one Canadian destination on the same run. For example, from Memphis to Toronto, and then have the same U.S. aircraft carry on to Ottawa. Right now, the Toronto-Ottawa extension would havew to be flown by a Canadian sub-contractor (to FedEx). This benefit would be heavily in favor of U.S. cargo operators. Canada has no need for similar benefits within the U.S. So the balance of benefits might be created by adding passenger and cargo benefits for the U.S. and juxtaposing them against purely passenger benefits for Canada.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3077 times:

There is really no value to open skies. No US carrier will want to fly Cdn domestics, and I can only see AC, WS etc maybe opening at most a token 1 or 2 US dom flights.

Quoting Sebring (Reply 4):
The U.S. carriers could make stops in Canada to pick up passengers en route to Asia.

Not likely. Passengers want nonstops. US carriers will not risk losing US travellers just to gain Cdn travellers.

Quoting Sebring (Reply 4):
U.S. cargo carriers want co-terminal rights: the ability to send a freighter to more than one Canadian destination on the same run.

This would be one item that could be negotiated. The Cdn cargo carriers will fight it though.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineYegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1732 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2967 times:

it could help some flights come into existence....

ie, operate flights say from smaller cities such as SLC with possible stops in Canada on the way to EU

Also, could run flights though YVR to Asia....that's a real possibility.


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2974 times:

Quoting Yegbey01 (Reply 6):
Also, could run flights though YVR to Asia....that's a real possibility.

If CP was still around I could see AA pushing for it, but with UA having their own strong SFO/LAX gateways, I don't know that anybody else would be interested.

Reading the above the only trade off I could see would be 5th freedom which could benefit AC most co-terminal which would be an advantage for FedEx, UPS, etc.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
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