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Why Did Philippine Airlines Have So Many A340's?  
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16607 times:

I was browsing Planespotters the other day and noticed that Philippine Airlines at one time seemed to have had up to 12 A342/A343 in their fleet. Four remain, while 8, including the A342's, were transferred to other operators in the late 1990's.

http://www.planespotters.net/Airline/Philippine_Airlines_(PR_PAL)

Can anyone shed some light on why they bought so many aircraft of this type? They now operate 8 A330's, presumably as replacements for the A340's. Was the A340 just too much plane for their route structure? Did Airbus assist in finding new homes for the A340's in exchange for PAL taking the A330?

I tried an archive search but couldn't locate anything specific. Appreciate any insight.
Regards,
Lumberton


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
80 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16557 times:

I seem to remember for a fleeting moment when they were in an expansion binge.... this is remotely from memory reading FI.... could be wrong though

User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2946 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 16424 times:

PR was in order their heads with expansion in the mid-90s then the bottom fellout of the Asian economies in the late 90s resulting in selling off extraneous A340s and others like 744, A320, 733. For some time, there was absolutely no aircraft additions until of late when they acquired a few second-hand A320s.

User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16368 times:
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The A342s were initially CX planes which PAL took as a stopgap till the A343s were available and they were only used for in some cases a few months before PAL went bankrupt.

User currently offlineAirlineaddict From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16343 times:
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As Carpethead stated, prior to the fallout of the Asian economies, PR was privatized and went on a shopping spree to update their fleet of aircraft including A340s to replace aging 747-200s on routes to Europe and the Middle East. PR went into a rehabilitation plan and many of the A340s were either cancelled or went elsewhere since many of the routes to Europe and the Middle East were cancelled.

I recall that some of the A340-200s destined for PR were used by CX first as a test to see whether or not the A340s would fit into CX's fleet. I don't believe PR ever actually used the A340-200s.

The A330s were always destined for regional and domestic routes from Manila. The A330s replaced A300s.


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 16178 times:

According to their homepage they don't have a single European destination. Does anybody know what the chances are that they'll have one in the near future??

User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 16150 times:

Phillipines have no prescence at all now in Europe and I am amazed by that. I would have though a few flights to FRA,AMS and LHR/LGW would have been viable.

I dont mean to be controversial but a lot of the mucky mack brigade and silver haired old men travel to the Phillipines regularly in search of a wife. Disgusting as it it, they should make up quite a market.


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 15982 times:

Thank you all for your responses. I've flown the SFO/MNL route on PR a couple of times and this route is tailor made for the A380; the 744's are packed to the rafters with pax and balikbayan boxes. There was a thread here awhile back discussing this in some detail. I've always liked PR, with their nice and friendly service. I'd like to see them doing better but I don't see them ordering the A380 anytime soon.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 5):
According to their homepage they don't have a single European destination.

I didn't know that either. With 7+million Philipinos working overseas, you'd think they had a captive market?



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineVSFLYER747400 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 15924 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 7):
I didn't know that either. With 7+million Philipinos working overseas, you'd think they had a captive market?

I would imagine that PR need......

A) Suitable equipment now - the 747-400's are tied to their US routes
B) To find the right european routes to go for - LON would be a must.

The market from Europe has seen airlines withdraw from serving Manila, in the last three years or so we have seen BA pull out (was an extension of 1 of the HKG flights - now they just feed into CX connections), Swiss, Air France (but KLM has now gone daily as a result), PR pulled out of europe years ago when they routed LGW-FRA/ZRH-BKK-MNL I think. Nowadays the European Philipino community tend to go for whatver carrier is the cheapest I'd say and route via the middle east on KU, EK, GF or QR.

Will PR ever return to Europe? That remains to be seen.



Being on: (in no order) VS BA AA EK CX MH DL EI BD KL HV NW RC LH AF DA TG QF US FR LX AC SK AZ PG SQ UA PA
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 15756 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 7):
I didn't know that either. With 7+million Philipinos working overseas, you'd think they had a captive market?

I don't know if they work in Europe, I think they work mainly in the Middle East (and on ships.)



Quoting VSFLYER747400 (Reply 8):
A) Suitable equipment now - the 747-400's are tied to their US routes
B) To find the right european routes to go for - LON would be a must.

They have the A340s. Getting slot at LHR or FRA might be a problem. According to the pictures in the db they served London, Paris, and Frankfurt in the 90s.


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 15723 times:

The Filipino-Spanish connection has been lost for decades now, I doubt PR would ever fly MNL-MAD or to Latinamerica.
But I guess - given the demand - one day they may fly MNL-FRA/CGN-LGW/STN.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 15675 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 9):
I don't know if they work in Europe, I think they work mainly in the Middle East (and on ships.)

My friend its called nurses. Britain is a large filipino nurse recruiting country.

In Europe, Italy has the largest Filipino community then comes Germany then Britain and the Netherlands.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 9):
Getting slot at LHR or FRA might be a problem

I believe those slots are still available for PR when they need them. There was talk many years ago to sell these slots especially the ones at LHR, but they decided to keep em.

The carrier as it is now, is having capacity shortages. It needs more aircraft.
But with a lot of corruption within the carrier it will be hard press to find extra cash, though it made a profit so far this year.

Drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineVSFLYER747400 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 15656 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 9):
They have the A340s. Getting slot at LHR or FRA might be a problem. According to the pictures in the db they served London, Paris, and Frankfurt in the 90s.

Their A340s only seat 264 pax (12F/32C/220Y) where as their 747-400s carry 398 (32F/40C/326Y), deep down they would need to use the 747s given the loads. I used to fly LON/DXB/MNL 2-3 times a year on business using EK and the flights were always full, even the LON/DXB leg was mainly carrying pax for the MNL connection.

They would probably serve LGW again as before, question is whether they would still route the flights like they used to, via another European and Far Eastern city. I would guess that even then it would only be 3-4 flights per week.



Being on: (in no order) VS BA AA EK CX MH DL EI BD KL HV NW RC LH AF DA TG QF US FR LX AC SK AZ PG SQ UA PA
User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 15624 times:

Quoting VSFLYER747400 (Reply 12):
They would probably serve LGW again as before, question is whether they would still route the flights like they used to, via another European and Far Eastern city.

Well they use to operate LGW/LHR direct a couple years back with the A340, but again that was short lived.

I think with a restart of EU network, it would probably be best to operate the flights with an intermediate stop ie MNL-FRA-LHR/LGW or MNL-FRA-CDG or MNL-FCO-FRA

Drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineIflypal From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 69 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 15626 times:

If memory serves me right:

Philippine Airlines placed an order for 4 A340-200, 4 A340-300, 8 A330-300, and 7 747-400s as part of a massive refleeting program in 1993. The significant chunk of the order was placed at the Paris Air Show. To bridge the delivery between the Airbuses and the existing fleet of 747-200s and DC10's, PAL wet-leased 4 MD11s from World Airways and a couple of A340-300 from Gulf Air.

Shortly before delivery, financial and operational difficulties forced PAL to sublease the 4 A340-200 to Cathay Pacific for two years. Fit the bill, as PAL was not prepared to accept deliveries of the aircraft and CX couldnt get their metal fast enough.

When they finally did accept deliveries of the A340s, PAL operated them on a slew of intercontinental routes. It was this buying binge and the expansion (coupled with the Asian economic crisis of course) that ultimately caused the airline to shut down. Lets not talk about pilot strikes at this time.

The 3-4 stop European milkrun was replace with nonstop MNL-LHR 4x a week, MNL-FRA nonstop 3x a week, MNL-FRA via BKK 3x a week and MNL-CDG via BKK 3x a week. Yes, at one point, PAL served Europe 13 flights weekly. The flights were a mix of A340-200/300.

On the Transpacific front, PAL was have used the A340-200 on the Manila-Vancouver-Newark run previously operated by the MD11. When the Philippines was rated Category 2 by the FAA, PAL was forced to wet lease (aircraft, crew, etc) from World Airways to operate the route (along with a Manila-Seoul-Los Angeles run). That deal proved to be too expensive. Shortly before the shutdown, PAL A340s were used on the MNL-YVR (4x a week) and the MNL-HNL runs, as well as seasonal additional frequencies between Manila and Honululu and Los Angeles

The A340s also contributed to an expansion in the Australian market. At the peak of their schedule, Sydney had as much as 10x a week, Melbourne 6x a week and Brisbane 4x a week. The flights were operated by the -300 series aircraft. Imagine, a morning AND an evening flight to Sydney 3x a week!

In the Middle East, the A340s forged additional frequencies to Dubai, Jeddah, Dhahran and Riyadh. Ultimately, Dubai was closed, followed by Jeddah. Dhahran (Dammam) was closed 1 year after PAL went through rehabilitation.

The original 4 Airbus A340-200s were ultimately leased to Aerolineas Argentinas after PALs shutdown. I dont know if PAL still holds the operating leases for the 4 aircraft or if it was repossessed by Airbus and then leased to AR. It would be nice to have them back to restart the European services, though I would presume the aircraft would be in need of an interior overhaul.

The original 4 Airbus A340-300s are now operating PALs intercontinental routes-- Los Angeles (2x weekly), San Francisco (1x weekly), Honululu (3x weekly), Vancouver (4x), Las Vegas (4x), and Riyadh (3x weekly). The lone A340-300 leased from Gulf Air is back with its original operator.

Ideally, the Airbus A380 would be a nice replacement to the 747-400s plying the Manila-Los Angeles and Manila-San Francisco routings. A more realistic step would be to lease 6 Airbus A340-600s. 2 to replace the daily MNL-LAX route, 2 to replace the MNL-SFO route (eliminating the HNL stop westbound) and 2 for European routes (MNL-FRA-LHR 3x weekly, MNL-ROM-CDG 2x, MNL-ROM-LHR 2x weekly). The flights represent a calculated re-entry to the European market. There are no direct flight currently from Manila to London, Rome and Paris. At one point, BA, AZ, and AF operated these routes. The 747-400s being replaced by the 600 series would be redeployed to service the Australian runs, the lucrative Manila-Tokyo flights, and extra frequencies to Los Angeles and San Francisco via Honululu. But I digress.

Hope that sums it up.


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 15547 times:

Quoting Iflypal (Reply 14):
Hope that sums it up.

Yes, nicely done, Iflypal. Thanks. You talk abot the A346 on lease as an option for their US routes. What about a 777 option on wet lease?
Regards,
L



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineOldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3477 posts, RR: 67
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 15475 times:

Quoting Iflypal (Reply 14):
Ideally, the Airbus A380 would be a nice replacement to the 747-400s plying the Manila-Los Angeles and Manila-San Francisco routings.

The A380 is not a good replacement. PR has a 139 kg pax allowance for flights from the US. Most of this weight is taken up by goods in cardboard boxes being brought home for friends and family.

This causes the A380 cargo hold to fill up before all the seats are taken. Due to their higher cargo volume to seat ratio, an A346 can carry almost as many pax as an A380 while a 773ER can carry more.

Of course the A346 and 773ER operating costs are significantly lower than the A380.



Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 810 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 15402 times:

So is KL the only carrier offering a non-stop MNL-Europe flight??

User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 15380 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 9):
I don't know if they work in Europe, I think they work mainly in the Middle East (and on ships.)

40% of all marine engineers working on the world's merchant fleet are Phillipine sailors. You also find a large number of Phillipine nationals working in fish processing plants in Alaska.


User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 15361 times:

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 17):
So is KL the only carrier offering a non-stop MNL-Europe flight??

YES. Triple 7 service too. To bad there are no pics of KL B777 at NAIA.

LH offers A346 flights via CAN.

Drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 15189 times:

Quoting KL808 (Reply 11):
My friend its called nurses. Britain is a large filipino nurse recruiting country.

In Europe, Italy has the largest Filipino community then comes Germany then Britain and the Netherlands.

The foreign nurses in Germany come mainly from Korea. We don't have a large Filipino community here. Only some 20,000 in the whole country.

Quoting Iflypal (Reply 14):
Hope that sums it up.

Nice report, thanks. I think 6 A380s and 6-10 A346s would be good for them.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 18):
40% of all marine engineers working on the world's merchant fleet are Phillipine sailors. You also find a large number of Phillipine nationals working in fish processing plants in Alaska.

That's what I meant. They have a reputation to be very good sailors. (OK, but their country is made up of some 7,000 islands.)


User currently offlineA342 From Germany, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 4680 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 15116 times:

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 16):
Of course the A346 and 773ER operating costs are significantly lower than the A380.

This is pure speculation and remains to seen. Ask SQ when they got both.



Exceptions confirm the rule.
User currently offlineWunala From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 950 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12876 times:

Quoting VSFLYER747400 (Reply 12):
where as their 747-400s carry 398 (32F/40C/326Y),

32 in First Class. Has anyone flown them in First, is it a true First Class or an enhanced Biz class?


User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12871 times:

Quoting Wunala (Reply 22):
32 in First Class. Has anyone flown them in First, is it a true First Class or an enhanced Biz class?

Well it depends. Their first class is first class, but its not up to par as other asian carriers like SQ, TG, CX, MH etc. Seats wise that is. Food is excellent as well as service. Check out Lufthansa747 trip reports, he has some first class flights on PR.

Drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12836 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 6):
silver haired old men travel to the Phillipines regularly in search of a wife. Disgusting as it it, they should make up quite a market.

Just you wait til you're old and gray and have more cash than testosterone.
 old 

I was looking at my collection of old airline magazine ads...
Philippine Air Lines billed themselves, with the arrival of the DC8, as "The 6000 MPH Airline"
This is not a typo.

They explain how they do it by the fact they go so many places...And I quote being unable to scan it...
"From taking off in San Francisco to taking off in Hong Kong, to circling Manila, approaching Zamboanga, serving cocktails above Honolulu, fastening seatbelts in Australia and taxying in Taipei. Add it up, and there's nothing new about flying 6000 MPH. We do it everyday."

 Confused
What?

But WHAT ABOUT THE RUM!!!
(Gratutious POTC Reference for the day)



Delete this User
25 Post contains links and images N751PR : Well only one 744 has this layout and that is N754PR which is an ex Kuwait Airways 747. N751PR-N753PR along with RP-C8168 have 10F/32C/383Y bringing
26 N754PR : They had at least TWO A343's from GF.
27 N751PR : Iflypal already covered it, I guess the other part was a typo.
28 Airlineaddict : Great summary Iflypal! For some reason I thought the DC-10s were long gone prior to the arrival of the A330s and A340s, but I stand corrected. As was
29 Wunala : Thanks N751PR for the info.
30 OldAeroGuy : No, it isn't speculation. Trip operating costs will always be lower for the A346 and 773ER as they are smaller airplanes. Trip operating cost per sea
31 Sq212 : PR used to be the dominant carrier in the Philippines. At one time they're at par with CX. Unfortunately, labor, politics, new management, increased c
32 Lumberton : Without commenting on the operating costs, I can attest to the fact that the baggage allowance is THE thing for Filipinos returning home. PR gives a
33 Post contains images A342 : If you mean trip costs, then you are right of course. Well, what about a A389Combi then ? Should be perfect for PR: Cargo/baggage on the upper deck a
34 Sq212 : Lumberton You should thank OldAeroGuy, not me. the quote is from his Reply 30 not 31. Cheers
35 Post contains images Lumberton : Quite right. Thanks, OldAeroGuy. (It was too early in the morning when I made that post ) Interesting suggestion. However, I'm not aware that anythin
36 Boysteve : Maybe they bought them to fly the Imelda Marcos shoe collection around. You can search on the internet now (so a friend told me!)
37 Kiwiandrew : Do you mean that you have to go and collect them ! I assumed that "mail order brides" would include postage and handling
38 Iflypal : Allow me to be a bigger airliner geek as I appeared to be before. Once PAL gets out of rehabilitation, they should proceed with a somewhat calculated
39 OldAeroGuy : No problem, always good to have a civil conversation on airplane capabilities. PR does have some unique operational needs.
40 Post contains images Lumberton : Don't understand this one. Your scenario already covers daily 7xweekly service both to LAX and SFO. Couldn't this aircraft be better utilized elsewhe
41 Eha : Nice vision on PAL possible expansion. You're talking about rehabilitation, what do you mean exactly ? PAL is posting several years with profits now
42 Post contains images Mandala499 : Iflypal, That's some wish list... My version *just for semi-serious fun* - 5 744s kept, if replaced with other type, say A346, it'll go to 6 346s. - C
43 Post contains images N751PR : Anytime. Indeed those were the days. When I looked back at some National Geographic magazines dating from the 70s and early 80s, I'd always see a PAL
44 DFORCE1 : Could someone please explain to me why the European carriers have been pulling out of MNL if the routes are profitable? And does anyone have any idea
45 Iflypal : Mandala, and all Thanks for your responses. Kewl. The 4 747-400s on order/in the books (?) with Boeing most likely will not be exercised.. Dont know w
46 Lumberton : Are you sure these are 346's? I thought AC flew A345's? Would make a BIG difference in route planning. Otherwise, another great post.
47 A342 : CX has only 3 and will be keeping them for a while as they are very new. AC´s 3 A346 are not even delivered yet, if they´ll be ever.
48 Thorben : CX has three leased A346, but those are among the newest planes they have. Before getting rid of those they need to replace others first. AC has two
49 Iflypal : Thanks for correcting me Thorben. Somewhere, sometime I read about pending AR, CX, AC orders that jived with my numbers. How they evolved over time I
50 Mandala499 : Iflypal, Often that Jakarta flight is an A320... Mandala499
51 Post contains links Thorben : You're welcome. It's sometimes hard to keep up with those numbers, because press articles are not always correct/complete. A good source therefore is
52 Post contains images N1786b : This hit Bloomberg ths morning. Philippine Airlines Plans to Acquire Six New Airplanes by 2009 October 21, 2005 01:15 EDT -- Philippine Airlines Inc.
53 VSFLYER747400 : I think you will find its purely down to alliances, BA routed their service via HKG so now BA passengers feed into CX services instead. With the AF/K
54 NetworkDoc : BA used to operate 5th freedom to MNL. There was (1) not enough traffic in absolute terms; and (2) traffic was much group economy bookings (seamen an
55 KL808 : I think its time for PR to get rid of its first class and transfer to a 2 class carrier. Iflypal I really enjoyed your post on the future route and ai
56 Lumberton : I agree, but they probably won't get as low a price as they want. Scott Carson has already been quoted as saying that Boeing won't do "silly deals".
57 N751PR : I believe 5J prefers to have PR to probe that market again and see it's come outcome. At the moment, they'd rather go where the money can me made for
58 KL808 : Philskies. Like woe right. I mean narrow bodies plus widebodies. Does Boeing have a bit of a bargaining chip because of the B747-400's that are still
59 Post contains images N751PR : Pasyensiya ka na, pare, I meant to say which topic was it in PFSG? Indeed, this is just too overwhelming for us RP aviation guys.
60 Post contains images Thorben : They probably read this thread. Really? Why? Nobody.
61 A342 : Cockpit and fleet commonality and, if their A333s have RR engines, further commonality there.
62 Post contains links Thorben : I know, I was just kidding. Concerning the engine, look at that, it looks bad: http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=133310 In this other artic
63 Lumberton : Not very smart if you want to drive the best price in a negotiation! Why would Boeing put in a serious bid?
64 Post contains images KL808 : All of PR's fleet is GE. non RR. " target=_blank>http://www.planepictures.net/netshow...33310 Drew
65 Vincewy : I wonder if there're demands for 2nd LAX/SFO flights (perhaps day flight), every time I'm at LAX, the check in counter of PR is always packed to the g
66 KL808 : yes, PR doesn't have dedicated cargo aircraft, therefore its more lucrative for PR to carry more Cargo than lessening its load on the LAX-MNL run, th
67 Thorben : Then, the A346 should be great for them, because it has way more cargo capacity than a 747.
68 Vincewy : ONLY IF they bring in 2nd daily flight, no joke, almost every time I'm at LAX, flights are full, plus the amount of luggage they carry (almost like L
69 Iflypal : Not sure if they can support twice daily flights, especially during off peak season. Summer and Christmas time perhaps, but right now, most likely not
70 Iflypal : Mandala. I apologize for not responding to this post... My version *just for semi-serious fun* (IFP: good for you, I would love for more people to do
71 Vincewy : Given proximity to SE coast of China (Guangdong and Fujian), has PR considered more local flights to coastal Chinese cities such as ZHA, FOC, SWA, or
72 DFORCE1 : Does PAL own a stake in Air Philippines?
73 N751PR : Well, it's more like Lucio Tan owning stakes in both PAL and Air Philippines.
74 Post contains links Lumberton : And another reason for going Airbus...doesn't LH operate a maintenance facility at NAIA for Airbus WB's? I found this article, but it's a couple of y
75 Sq212 : 2P fleets needs replacement too. 319 or RJs will be great. LH and another partner joint operate a small maintenance facilty at the airport. MK, OS se
76 A342 : Small ? I don´t think so, but it´s not large either. And IIRC, LH is also sending planes there.
77 Post contains images Mandala499 : IflyPal, It was just a quick idea... Hadn't really looked at the "details" until now. I think 6 A346s is a more realistic intermediate development...
78 KL808 : I think I disagree on this route. MNL-PER is not going to fair that good. Because Competition will be hard for such a small market. PER is currently
79 Redneckslim : Not all the grey hair gezzers run to the Philippines looking for a barefoot wife 60 years his junior, many like me just make a quick jaunt across the
80 Sq212 : Land area of the maintenance facilities is sizeable. But can only overhaul two wide-body aircrafts in its hangar at anytime. BTW, just this month, Lu
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