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Airtran Pulling Out Of DFW-LAX  
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2486 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6110 times:

I wonder if they will keep DFW-LAS?

Dallas Business Journal - 6:22 PM CDT Tuesday
AirTran pulling back at D/FW Airport
Margaret Allen
Staff Writer
Low-cost carrier AirTran Airways Inc. is cutting back some of its flights from Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport because of high jet fuel costs, D/FW airport confirmed late Tuesday.

Visitors to the Florida-based carrier's Web site are unable to book flights between D/FW Airport and Los Angeles International Airport after Dec. 5, according to the "search for flights" area of the airline's Web site.

AirTran, which operates about a dozen flights a day out of D/FW, is one of the airport's premier low-cost carriers.

"AirTran has advised us that the impending suspension of their flights to Los Angeles from D/FW is due to the high cost of fuel, much the same as American's recent reduction of flights to certain markets," said Joe Lopano, executive vice president of marketing at D/FW. "We're hopeful that the price of fuel moderates in the coming months so that AirTran can resume its service from D/FW to Los Angeles."

An AirTran spokeswoman reached by the Dallas Business Journal Tuesday did not immediately have information on the route.

D/FW, which historically has had average fares much higher than other major U.S. hub airports, has consistently pointed to growth of its low-cost carriers as proof that smaller carriers can enter the D/FW Airport market and compete against American Airlines Inc.

American (NYSE: AMR) controls more than 80 percent of the flights at D/FW.

Major low-cost carrier Southwest Airlines Co. (NYSE: LUV), which operates from North Texas out of Dallas Love Field, has rejected invitations to fly out of D/FW, citing it as an American stronghold.

In a recent blow to D/FW, New York-based low-cost carrier JetBlue announced it was launching nonstop flights Jan. 19 between Austin's Bergstrom International Airport and New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport and Boston's Logan Airport.

AirTran recently announced it was expanding service in what it called "key business markets." Specifically, effective Dec. 6, it has said it will expand service between Chicago Midway Airport and Atlanta, Boston, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Orlando and Sarasota/Bradenton (Fla.) airports.

AirTran, a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings Inc. (NYSE: AAI), started its D/FW to LAX service in July 2004. From D/FW, it also serves Atlanta, Orlando, Baltimore and Las Vegas.

At the time it entered the market, published reports said AIrTran estimated the average D/FW-LAX fare at $180 one way. AirTran's introductory one-way fare was $89.

American responded by cutting its unrestricted "walk up" coach fares into the Los Angeles area to as low as $199 on nonstop flights, according to published reports.

Currently a traveler can book a Dec. 5 AirTran flight over the Internet for $89 one-way. The carrier departs D/FW Airport for Los Angeles twice a day, once at 7:10 a.m. and again at 4:14 p.m.

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4522 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6043 times:

When I saw the title of this topic I assumed it meant FL was pulling out of DFW and LAX. Did anyone else get this? In any case its amazing that fuel has gotten so bad that airlines are dropping routes like this between two large cities.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5067 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6019 times:

Sounds like the aircraft that have been flying DFW-LAX will be moved to the new routes out of MDW.

User currently offlineDALNeighbor From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6015 times:

I'm sure DFW execs would love to blame this loss of service on jet fuel. Hard to believe while AirTran has announced MDW - MSP, BOS.


Wright Amendment = Federally Engineered AA Price Gouging
User currently offlineSonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6008 times:

Oh boy, the anti-Wright, pro-WN are going to love this. Talk about a hit towards DFW and AA.

-SOAC



Non Illegitimi Carborundum
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4522 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6005 times:

Is FL that short of aircraft that they have to kill routes like that in order to fill 2 new routes somewhere else? I guess its possible. I doubt they have a fleet parked in the desert like some seem to.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5984 times:

How is B6's new JFK/BOS-AUS service a blow to DFW?

User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5973 times:

Yields on this flight were awful for FL.

FL started the route with fares that were about 220 total.

When AA matched those fares to not only LAX, but ONT, LGB, SNA, and BUR as well, FL had to lower their fares even more. It was not uncommon to find advanced purchase fares to LAX for around 175 total.

I don't think FL was making much money off those flights with those fares.

Also, the cheap fares to socal from DFW are OVER.

It wouldn't suprise me to see the fares back well over $300 by tomorrow.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineRumorboy From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 353 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5965 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 5):
Is FL that short of aircraft that they have to kill routes like that in order to fill 2 new routes somewhere else?

Pretty simple. If its true that they are short aircraft, if those airplanes can make money on another route so be it. Unfortunately oil is hurting everybody. Sometimes you have to make tough decisions. Hopefully it will come back. I sure liked the route.


User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5925 times:

Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 3):
I'm sure DFW execs would love to blame this loss of service on jet fuel. Hard to believe while AirTran has announced MDW - MSP, BOS.

Indeed. Obviously jet fuel has little/nothing to do with this move. AA choked them out of DFW-LAX in the time-tested method learned from Northwest.

To imply that DFW-LAX lacks sufficient demand to top off the fuel tanks is just an insult to our modest intelligence. AA whipped them good and they are not eager to admit it.


User currently offlineRumorboy From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 353 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5899 times:

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 9):
AA whipped them good and they are not eager to admit it.

you are very wrong and your ideas are very misguided.


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5891 times:

Quoting Rumorboy (Reply 10):
you are very wrong and your ideas are very misguided.

I can't think of any other way of looking at it. DFW did indeed "whip their butt"

Did you read what I wrote?

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 7):
Yields on this flight were awful for FL.

FL started the route with fares that were about 220 total.

When AA matched those fares to not only LAX, but ONT, LGB, SNA, and BUR as well, FL had to lower their fares even more. It was not uncommon to find advanced purchase fares to LAX for around 175 total.

I don't think FL was making much money off those flights with those fares.

Its ok to say that this idea is wrong, but it would be nice if said why you think this is true.

[Edited 2005-10-19 06:23:27]


"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineSCCutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5395 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5848 times:

Gosh, chased out by AA. Go figure.


...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4265 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5849 times:

Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 6):
How is B6's new JFK/BOS-AUS service a blow to DFW?

DFW had been lobbying very hard for B6 service. The article is implying that B6 is planning only to announce service to one Texas city in the near future, that being AUS.

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 9):
AA choked them out of DFW-LAX in the time-tested method learned from Northwest.

Standard operating procedure for AA (and NW, UA, etc, just happens to be AA in this case). It is the reason LCCs have had problems entering hub markets.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16951 posts, RR: 48
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5756 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 5):
Is FL that short of aircraft that they have to kill routes

FL is up to its eyeballs in new aircraft, and the DFW focus city has performed much worse than expected.

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 12):
Gosh, chased out by AA. Go figure.

None of the routes out of DFW other than ATL have been very successful.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3690 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5717 times:
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Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 9):
AA whipped them good and they are not eager to admit it.

It all has to do with the cost of fuel in LAX. Yields were decent, but with oil at its current rate, the yields have diminished. Why keep something that is making little money when you can shift to another city and make a lot of money? FL isn't scared of the superfortress that is DFW. Give it time and I think you'll see a resumption in service to LAX from DFW.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineN200WN From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 784 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5674 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
None of the routes out of DFW other than ATL have been very successful

Good...maybe they'll move some of those A/C down to SAT. This place is booming as the loads have not let up like they traditionally do after Labor Day.


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5671 times:

Yep...DFW is a great airport to serve....as long as you're AA.

Everyone else...be prepared to bleed. But hey, it's called competition, right?

And WN picking up and moving everything over there lock, stock, and barrel is a good idea because?



Delete this User
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days ago) and read 5655 times:

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 9):
AA choked them out of DFW-LAX in the time-tested method learned from Northwest.

LOL who else had NW kicked out of ther "homeland " with this straegy??



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4522 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days ago) and read 5618 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):

FL is up to its eyeballs in new aircraft, and the DFW focus city has performed much worse than expected.

They only had 5 destinations. They were calling it a focus city? That has to be a tough place to try and do business. I just don't see how an LCC can operate effectively at an airport with long taxi times. It would seem that you'd want to be able to get in and out as quick as possible. Getting in and out fast saves a great deal of money in aircraft time and fuel.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3945 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days ago) and read 5620 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Stirling (Reply 17):

Exactly and DFW aiport officials wonder why they are having such a hard time getting new flights to different cities from their airport.

Maybe FL should expand at SAT? It's seems to be a pretty underserved airport when it come to longer routes, like NYC, etc.

LACA773


User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

"Oh boy, the anti-Wright, pro-WN are going to love this. Talk about a hit towards DFW and AA.

-SOAC"


You may have something there. I believe there is some debate in congress scheduled soon about the Wright amendment. This could be useful ammunition for the anti-Wright politicians.


User currently offlineLax44 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5312 times:

What were r/t fares like after DL pulled out and before FL entered the market? AA is still quoting $218 on its website atm.

I know UA flies this route (once per day I think).


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5119 times:

Quoting Lax44 (Reply 22):
What were r/t fares like after DL pulled out and before FL entered the market? AA is still quoting $218 on its website atm.

I know UA flies this route (once per day I think).

Advanced purchase fares were around $325-$400 during peak travel times.

I flew DFW-LGB in March 2004 and paid $315. This was the cheapest flight of all the So-cal airports. This was because America West was having a fare sale to LGB, and AA matched their fare.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4504 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5099 times:

Interesting development and sorry to hear it.

I remember when Air Tran launched this route AA had something like 12 flights a day between DFW and LAX and AirTran's CEO Leonard something or other said...

"Let them fill their 1058 seats. We'll concentrate on filling our 170"

Don't quote me on the numbers, but I remember him having said something along those lines.

Hopefully FL will be able to relaunch it soon.



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
25 MAH4546 : They aren't going to. It really annoys me that airlines now insist on using "because of rising fuel costs" as an excuse for cutting routes. If the ro
26 PHLBOS : Although FL has been off-and-on with a few routes in the past. It tried PHL-BOS in the '90s but later replaced it w/ATL-BOS. However in early 2003, i
27 Md95 : I flew FL last week DFW-LAX-DFW and both times the A/C was half empty (or half full) and I asked myself how long it could last. Even with cheaper fuel
28 DeltaMIA : I agree saying rising fuel costs is a poor excuse when dropping or "suspending" service. FL was ignorant and set the bar too low. AA had no choice but
29 N1120A : Yes, they are only on the route once per day Well, it would not have been 170, because their 717s hold 117
30 AirTran737 : I'm suggesting that if DFW-LAX isn't making a lot of money, then why not move that aircraft to another city pair that can make a lot of money? Like f
31 DeltaMIA : Then why not move it from a route that is making no money or losing money. It doesn't make sense to move it from a route that is making money despite
32 Jmhluv2fly : AirTran is always looking ahead and trying to capitalize on certain opportunities. Contrary to what legacy carriers would like to believe, like AA in
33 MAH4546 : Haha. You have got to be kidding me. I can name at least dozens and dozens and dozens of American Airlines routes that are in the black...MIA-EZE, OR
34 JmhLUV2fly : People shall say what they will about company decisions. The fact of the matter is that there are certain few US carriers that are actually seeing pro
35 MAH4546 : Very true, few airlines can say that. American Airlines is one of them. American Airlines has more cash reserves than any other major airline, includ
36 Mariner : Close, but not quite. According to Yahoo today the cash in hand is: AMR: $3.4 billion. LUV: $2.27 billion AAI (Airtran) $367.81 million cheers marine
37 JmhLUV2fly : MAH4536: If you could possibly educate me abit, and Im being serious when I ask this, for we all can benefit from being informed from time to time...
38 FlyPNS1 : Actually, current analyst projections have Airtran losing money in 2005. Of course, Airtran may surprise and beat projections, but overall Airtran's
39 Post contains images FlyGuyClt : Ok, this is the turning point for airlines. If LCC's can't make money in this environment with cheaper costs. And start pulling out of markets. Well,
40 Commavia : Yeah, right. I highly doubt it. As MAH said, I don't think AirTran would have dropped DFW-LAX is their planes were "making more money ... empty" than
41 JmhLUV2fly : Thank you for the information that was provided, not exactly sure if I agree with the answers...but I do appreciate the input. Yes, higher fuel cost a
42 PHLBOS : Not to nitpick here, but while J7 had a few MD-80s; their number was small in comparison to the number of DC-9s they had. For the record, FL (pre- &
43 Post contains links Commavia : Because each plane they put into the already jam-packed U.S. air market is just going to drive fares a little lower. And, given that analysts project
44 FCYTravis : Those 91 new 73G that WN is getting are not all going to be new-service planes, are they though? I would assume they're going to retire some of the ol
45 PHLBOS : Considering that they (as J7) were almost wiped out because the 1996 crash of Flight 592; reaching the milestone of having 100 plane fleet some 9 yea
46 Flyibaby : AirTran has been a fairly good leader at creating new p2p markets. Granted alot of these have been to high density markets like MCO, but nonetheless
47 JmhLUV2fly : ok, ok, I just gotta respond once more.... I am curious as to why analyst have picked of all the US airlines out there flying, AirTran to be the one t
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