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Airbus: No More A380 Orders This Year  
User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4162 posts, RR: 89
Posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12454 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
COMMUNITY MANAGER

At least according to a report on Reuters;

By Chad Thomas
Oct. 19 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS Chief Executive Gustav Humbert does not expect any additional orders this year for the new double-decker A380 airliner, Reuters reported in an interview with Humbert at a conference in Berlin. Hubert told the wire service that his goal is to win an additional two to three contracts for the A380 next year.


(Reuters 10-19 online) http://de.today.reuters.com

Of the contracts that Mr Hubert expects to sign next year I assume Hainan Airlines could be considered to be one of them according to this;

Hainan Airlines is considering the Airbus SAS A380 as ``an aircraft that we could use in the future,'' Ren Weidong, general manager of purchasing, said in a telephone interview on Oct. 13.

Be good to see another Chinese carrier order the A380 any idea as to which other two carriers he could be referring to?

Regards, PanAm_DC10


Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 12269 times:

I'm surprised that Airbus can't scrounge-up an order or option exercise to announce at Dubai. Perhaps, the A350 will take up the slack.

[Edited 2005-10-19 15:11:22]

User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 12157 times:

I don't expect any orders before the end of 2007, when the big boy will have completed his first year of service with SQ. Then, the economics/reliability will be known. Besides, at what time could anyone get the first one if they ordered now? Before 2009?

Hainan Airlines? Their only widebodies are some 767s, and they have a few 787s on order. It'll take some time before they'll buy an A380.

http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Hainan_Airlines


User currently offlineCandid76 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 735 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 12139 times:

Kingfisher only operate A320s. And they haven't been in business for a full year yet.

User currently offlineDynkrisolo From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1866 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 12092 times:

I'm really surprised that he said that. AFAIK, SQ has an RFP for 9 388s or 747As that is to be decided before the end of the year. Is he saying that SQ will order the 747As? I find this a bit hard to believe.

User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days ago) and read 12088 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Kingfisher only operate A320s.

Sure looks like THEY'VE swallowed this 'commonality' thing whole, anyway.....  Smile

Anyone else get the feeling that Airbus should send Gustav Humbert on a management course so he'd learn to stop thinking aloud in the company of journalists who have their notebooks out, ballpoints poised, and tape-recorders switched on?

Or at least just to say 'Off the record' now and again.........



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 560 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12020 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 1):
Perhaps, the A350 will take up the slack.

Add the 777/787 to that and I think you may be close to the truth.

One day we have Leahy saying he could sell 30 more if he had the slots and now Humbert says no AB new customers this year?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Leahy pull a deal out of his ... well,... hat - just like the Kingfisher deal at Le Bourget.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 5):
Anyone else get the feeling that Airbus should send Gustav Humbert on a management course so he'd learn to stop thinking aloud in the company of journalists who have their notebooks out, ballpoints poised, and tape-recorders switched on?

Actually, I prefer it to the imp and JLs veiled insults and truth-stretching ad nauseum...

- N1786B


User currently offlineHS748 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11904 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
I don't expect any orders before the end of 2007, when the big boy will have completed his first year of service with SQ. Then, the economics/reliability will be known.

Sounds like flawed logic to me. On that basis why would any airline order any aircraft before it had proved itself in service?


User currently offlineHEGAN From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11854 times:

Airbus clearly said some time ago they expected one new customer per year. This year we have seen orders from UPS (10, converted from an A300 order), China Southern (5) and Kingfisher (5), what makes a good year. If a new order was made before 2006, it would be great, but really really difficult, as this airplane's sales are necessarily reduced.

Next year, for sure new orders will come, and possibly after the EIS. This Hainan Airlines' can be one of them.

Agur,
HEGAN



HEGAN: Euskadiko Aeronautikako eta Espazioko Clusterra
User currently offlinePHXinterrupted From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11792 times:

Quoting HS748 (Reply 7):
Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
I don't expect any orders before the end of 2007, when the big boy will have completed his first year of service with SQ. Then, the economics/reliability will be known.

Sounds like flawed logic to me. On that basis why would any airline order any aircraft before it had proved itself in service?

Yes, but this is a pretty unique aircraft (and quite expensive) that is already behind delivery schedule. If I was an airline, I would probably be cautious about this one too.



Keepin' it real.
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1884 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11746 times:

Quoting N1786b (Reply 6):
One day we have Leahy saying he could sell 30 more if he had the slots and now Humbert says no AB new customers this year?

He said no new A380 customers. You can bet EK will announce their 50-frame A350 order in Dubai.



STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlineBakestar From Australia, joined Sep 2005, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11656 times:

Might we see an increase in orders by QF at its 85th birthday bash next month, in which the A380 is appearing for?


fly'nhi
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11626 times:

Too bad. I love to see success....not that the program is unsuccessful or anything, just a dissapointment to see no more orders this year.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1884 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11601 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 12):
Too bad. I love to see success....not that the program is unsuccessful or anything, just a dissapointment to see no more orders this year.

If the A380 is going to perform as promised, there will be a surge of follow up orders in 2007 - and quite a few new customers, too in 2008 and 2009.

If it doesn't perform, then A380 program will be in trouble.



STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4329 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11573 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 5):
Anyone else get the feeling that Airbus should send Gustav Humbert on a management course so he'd learn to stop thinking aloud in the company of journalists who have their notebooks out, ballpoints poised, and tape-recorders switched on?

Yep, he definitely has not spent enough time around Leahy.

I find it interesting that Leahy's comments - something to the affect of being able to sell another 30 frames if he had the production capacity - were made the same week as Humbert's. Two different ways of looking at the same issue (lack of sales)?

Quoting HEGAN (Reply 8):
Airbus clearly said some time ago they expected one new customer per year. This year we have seen orders from UPS (10, converted from an A300 order), China Southern (5) and Kingfisher (5), what makes a good year.

As I pointed out in a thread a few months ago on this same issue, that's a very poor sales standard because it doesn't mean squat if the one customer per year only ordered 3 or 4 airframes. It would be more impressive if they stepped up to the plate like any other sales organization and forecasted actual unit numbers, with the client number being a simple roll-up function of the forecast report.



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineHEGAN From Spain, joined Feb 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11546 times:

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 13):
If it doesn't perform, then A380 program will be in trouble.

Yes, like any other new airplane would be in trouble. But if that was the case, Airbus would solve the problems, just like Boeing did with the 777 or would do with the 787 if it was the case. The same thing made McDonnell-Douglas with the MD-11 (too late, but they done).

Agur,
HEGAN



HEGAN: Euskadiko Aeronautikako eta Espazioko Clusterra
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10029 posts, RR: 96
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11434 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

How many airlines out there really waiting for the 389/389F?........

User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4329 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11410 times:

Quoting HEGAN (Reply 15):
Airbus would solve the problems, just like Boeing did with the 777

What were the problems with the 777 that Boeing had to solve?



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11367 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 16):
How many airlines out there really waiting for the 389/389F

IIRC, EK, FX, and VS have publicly expressed interest in the A389. Tim Clark has never been shy about saying it's the A389 EK truly covets.

[Edited 2005-10-19 18:03:30]

[Edited 2005-10-19 18:04:06]

User currently offlineHalibut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11329 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 12):
Too bad. I love to see success....not that the program is unsuccessful or anything, just a dissapointment to see no more orders this year.

There's only approx. 70 days left in 2005 !

Halibut


User currently offlineJonathan-l From France, joined Mar 2002, 504 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11266 times:

Quoting Dynkrisolo (Reply 4):
I'm really surprised that he said that. AFAIK, SQ has an RFP for 9 388s or 747As that is to be decided before the end of the year. Is he saying that SQ will order the 747As? I find this a bit hard to believe

MOU (memorandum of understanding) and PA (purchase agreement) are 2 different things. Only PA appear in order counts. If SQ announces its intention this year, it takes some time from the MOU to the PA, thus it would appear in next year orderbook.


User currently offlineDynkrisolo From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1866 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 11104 times:

Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 20):
MOU (memorandum of understanding) and PA (purchase agreement) are 2 different things.

And how do you know SQ will not sign an agreement by the end of the year?

[Edited 2005-10-19 19:05:06]

User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 560 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 11034 times:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Quoting N1786b (Reply 6):
One day we have Leahy saying he could sell 30 more if he had the slots and now Humbert says no AB new customers this year?

He said no new A380 customers. You can bet EK will announce their 50-frame A350 order in Dubai.

Yes, my bad - I should have said no A380 orders.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Might we see an increase in orders by QF at its 85th birthday bash next month, in which the A380 is appearing for?

It seems as if Humbert ruled that out too...


- N1786B


User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10547 times:

Quoting HS748 (Reply 7):
Sounds like flawed logic to me. On that basis why would any airline order any aircraft before it had proved itself in service?

There are enough airlines that want to see how it performs before they buy. Others want/need it and are willing to order without waiting that long.


User currently offlineTockeyhockey From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 950 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10491 times:

Quoting HS748 (Reply 7):
Quoting Thorben (Reply 2):
I don't expect any orders before the end of 2007, when the big boy will have completed his first year of service with SQ. Then, the economics/reliability will be known.

Sounds like flawed logic to me. On that basis why would any airline order any aircraft before it had proved itself in service?

the smart ones don't, especially if they are now being asked to pay full price!


25 N79969 : The difference between Leahy's remarks and Humbert's remarks is that Humbert's words carry a lot more weight with investors and analysts. I think it i
26 Stitch : Leahy said he could sell 30 more if he had the capacity. He doesn't, so Humbert saying Leahy will not chalk up any more orders this year doesn't strik
27 Ruscoe : As you know Nav 20. in Australia at least, it is a serious matter for officials to make claims. which may unfairly influence the market, for a public
28 Post contains images JetMaster : For an amateur - as certain armchair managers suggest - he must have had a lot of luck with getting into his position... Regards, JM
29 Post contains images Glideslope : The 346 comes to mind.
30 MarshalN : Wasn't there a thread a little while ago saying how FX would place a fairly sizable order for the 389F if it were available now? It sounded like they
31 Post contains images PanAm_DC10 : NAV20 & N1786b you both attribute quotes to me which I didn't make, must be something with the quote text function I believe Mr Humbert would be speak
32 BlueSky1976 : I think Airbus learned quite a few lessons from 346s EIS problems and will do their best not to repeat them with A380.
33 Leelaw : IIRC, there was an article in FI a couple of weeks ago reporting that FX anticipates an "ultimate" fleet of approximately 200 A388/389s including new
34 Mariner : Fascinating, because you have two polarized comments on the same thing. Clearly, this is not your Forgeard's Airbus. Whatever dynamic existed between
35 Meafly : A380 Orders/Commitments April 2001: 116 Oct. 2005: 159
36 RedFlyer : In 2000 they predicted sales of ~1400 a/c the size of the 380. Five years on, and as the only player in this sandbox, they have quite a lot of catchi
37 Mariner : Quite a lot of things were said in civil aviation before 9/11 that are no longer valid. cheers mariner
38 DfwRevolution : To the contrary, there was often a contrast between what Leahy and Foregard would state. There were times of equally striking contradiction... I thin
39 Mariner : I'm not saying there were not. I am saying it was a different dynamic. All relationships between people are different. I think. cheers mariner
40 Vincewy : Give it some time, there're airlines out there just holding off, too much risk to put in when the aircraft isn't in service, in Taiwan alone, CI could
41 RedFlyer : One of the things that was never said was that airline traffic would recover so quickly. Traffic returned to pre-9/11 levels in only three year's tim
42 NAV20 : Why do you assume that everyone you meet on here is - or has only ever been - an armchair manager, JetMaster? Part of Humbert's job as CEO is to 'squ
43 Post contains links Crosswind : Better ask FedEx, but I'd have said as primarily a package carrier the cargo FedEx hauls isn't high density. In any case, they have said they'd take
44 Mariner : Gosh. I have never seen history - or even current affairs - in isolation. The non-US airlines might be in recovery mode - might - the US airlines are
45 RedFlyer : Oh, my apologies then; I didn't realize the A380 was geared towards the U.S. airline industry. Especially since so few already fly the 747. Yes, I su
46 Mariner : So I was right. If you are not going to read what I write, why did you even ask the question? I did not say the A380 was was geared towards the US ind
47 RedFlyer : I did read what you wrote. I just think the excuses for a lack of 380 orders are just that - excuses. Fact is, the aircraft has been in development f
48 Mariner : Oh. Was I supposed to be offering excuses for the sales of the A380? I don't remember saying I would do that. I said: When does "no longer valid" bec
49 RedFlyer : Let's see, I originally said in reply #36: To which you replied: So, I assumed you were trying to explain away the dearth in orders for the 380. And t
50 Mariner : I can only repeat: when does "no longer valid" become a defense of the A380 - or why would you "assume" that it was? But - you didn't parry. You didn
51 B741 : There sure is a lot of bickering going on in these forums. I hope the airline execs don't bicker like that. Or maybe they do?
52 RedFlyer : You must be a politician or have politics in your blood to dance the way you do. I'm not going to argue with you. You obviously felt compelled to res
53 RedFlyer : What, were you born yesterday? Mariner IS an airline exec. How else would he know everything about the airline industry?
54 Islandboy : The sad part is it rolls over in so many threads. It's a pity sometimes when others come to just talk about aviation and some people feel the need to
55 Post contains images N1786b : Well one airline ordered 20 A350s - sounds like a major order to me (Even if the manufacturer had to pay the airline to order them). -N1786B
56 Mariner : I thought I did. Oh, well. There you go. cheers mariner
57 Post contains images Iwok : Perhapse Leahey just found out that SQ is going with the 747-ADV? You might be on to something here. Based on the different note of the comments comm
58 Post contains images Astuteman : Humbert's an Ops guy. Ops guys have usually been shot over so many times they're particularly careful about making boastful or ambitious statements.
59 RedChili : RedFlyer, there's a big difference between saying that you expect sales of 1,400 A380s or 1,400 planes the size of an A380. Airbus has always known t
60 Ikramerica : I hope you are right. The more 747A and A380s that fly, the more slots open up for 787s for more point-destination flights from the US. Then I'll get
61 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Maybe this is why Leahy was moaning about production rates. Airbus are planning to out-source about 60% of production to India and China. Starting by
62 A350 : It is true that 20 orders so far for this year are just not yet enough, seeing that the production capacity will be soon at 50/year. However, I think
63 RedFlyer : You're right, RedChili. I'm very well aware of that statement as I've read it myself on Airbus' website and in their press releases. However, if the
64 Islandboy : Well this is 'Airliners.net' not..'bitchinliners.net'. Of course people will disagree with each other, it's the way they do it. You might want to sti
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