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Kevin Cox Accuses WN Of Bribes  
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12061 posts, RR: 52
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3343 times:

Yesterday, WN delivered to Congress some 250,000 signatures, from North Texans, on their petition drive to repeal the Wright Amendment. Use this link to see all comments currently on the keep DFW strong web site:

http://www.keepdfwstrong.com/news/05/10/101805-comment.html


The comments Mr. Cox, the COO of DFW are, in part;

“As for the Southwest petition drive, let's not forget how these signatures were obtained – by offering Southwest employees free airline tickets, by antagonizing and pressuring travelers, many of whom did not want to sign, and by giving out less than complete information about the facts of the Wright Amendment. In short, we question the usefulness of such an effort.”

67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWorkbench From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3327 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
“As for the Southwest petition drive, let's not forget how these signatures were obtained – by offering Southwest employees free airline tickets, by antagonizing and pressuring travelers, many of whom did not want to sign, and by giving out less than complete information about the facts of the Wright Amendment. In short, we question the usefulness of such an effort.”

First off consider the source...This is a bunch of crAAP and has AA written all over it.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12061 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3268 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
by offering Southwest employees free airline tickets,

Don't WN employees get to fly as non-revs, anyway?


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2195 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3228 times:

Desperation is starting to show. They see the last quarter starting on the game clock, and know the win is not theirs to taste.


I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12420 posts, RR: 100
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3194 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
WN delivered to Congress some 250,000 signatures, from North Texans,

Kind of hard to ignore a 1/4 million signatures.

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3147 times:

Yes, I can see it now:
Southwest FA: "Ladies and gentlemen, we will now be moving about the cabin to collect signatures to repeal the Wright Ammendment."
Passenger: "What if we don't want to sign?"
Southwest FA: "We will not land until everyone has signed. If people still refuse to sign, we will simply run out of gas and crash. It's your choice."

Antagonizing and pressuring travelers? I am so sure.....


User currently offlineModernArt From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3148 times:

American is perfectly able to send it own petition to Congress - the one where 10-15 folks in Dallas agree to consistently pay more $$ then their counterparts in Houston, et al for comparable distance nonstop service.

For today, 10/19
DFW-PHL $599
IAH-PHL $282

DFW-BNA $324
IAH-BNA $190

DFW-SAN $599
AUS-SAN $272


User currently offlineMidway2AirTran From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 864 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3138 times:

DFW Authorities commenting in desparation, funny stuff! 250,000 signitures is very significant and shows that there were citizens actually making an effort to sign the petition instead of Southwest forcing it down their throats; contrary to Cox's remarks. Plus it would take quite an effort Southwest get those all at the airport alone too and from people who reside in North TX.

IMO, it appears that a majority of people are siding with Southwest on the issue. Southwest isn't the only airline to benefit too. Just a matter of time till the repeal!



"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5067 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3109 times:

But for every person who signed a petition, there could be several who approve of the status quo.

It's like the issue of the third airport in Chicago. The people around ORD are all for it. But the people around Peotone are still against it, as well as most residents of the City of Chicago.

What would be interesting to see is how many major employers in the Metroplex are in favor of repeal. In Chicago, virtually every local company that is on the Fortune 500 list is in favor of ORD expansion.


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3038 times:

Also from the PR, DFW COB Jeff Wentworth:

"Southwest Airlines claims its stance about the Wright Amendment is based on wanting low fares and more competition for North Texas . We have both today at DFW International Airport , including service from seven low-fare carriers. What Southwest really wants is to maintain its 97% passenger monopoly at Dallas Love Field and avoid competition. That's bad for North Texas ."

Geez, again we hear the current 97% value (because nobody in their right mind other than SWA and CoEx want to serve Love) inferred as a FUTURE value. DFW's own study said after repeal it'd be more like 55%, and others have estimated 60%-62.5%...

And Cox's "bribe" assertions? His desparation is growing more and more apparent.

In a nutshell, SOSDD from the DFW folks...


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3964 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2980 times:

Quoting ModernArt (Reply 6):
American is perfectly able to send it own petition to Congress - the one where 10-15 folks in Dallas agree to consistently pay more $$ then their counterparts in Houston, et al for comparable distance nonstop service.

For today, 10/19
DFW-PHL $599
IAH-PHL $282

DFW-BNA $324
IAH-BNA $190

DFW-SAN $599
AUS-SAN $272

The numbers I get for tomorrow, 10/20 are completely different from what you show, so your table is meaningless. If you wish to make a point about fares, you have too look at how much most passengers pay, not walkup fares that are paid by one or two or ZERO passengers.


User currently offlineSCCutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5393 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2875 times:

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 10):
If you wish to make a point about fares, you have too look at how much most passengers pay, not walkup fares that are paid by one or two or ZERO passengers.

Sir, I have no idea what parallel universe you live and fly in, but business travelers around the country are compelled by circumstance to buy "walk up fare" tickets by the thousands every day, and at DFW, they simply have to pay more than for equivalent trips from other areas.

We had a nice run going with reasonable fares to LAX- but now, Airtran has announced that they are withdrawing from the DFW-LAX route, and also that they are not going to start up service to two FL destinations which had previously been announced. All this, from one of the best-run and well-financed low cost carriers in the marketplace.

Look at what AA did, fare-wise, after Airtran began its service, and it is not hard to understand why no carrier wants to take up the Delta space.

Yet another piece of compelling evidence- Wright is Wrong.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineKensukeAida From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 217 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2855 times:

Hahahahaha....Cox should speak!!!!

Does anyone here NOT believe that he is getting money from AA or receiving some sort of kickback?

Give me a break. When the WA is repealed will he say that Senators were paid off by WN? That would be halarious.

- John


User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2841 times:

Incitatus, At DFW, local traffic on AA is 18% "Y" fare purchase, which means it is their published "Y" fare. That is 18 out of every 100 passengers who originate at DFW. It's interesting that CVG has the same numbers with DL.

User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2819 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 9):
In a nutshell, SOSDD from the DFW folks...

The dog ate my Texan-English dictionary....please be so kind sir and translate "SOSDD" for me.

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 11):
Sir, I have no idea what parallel universe you live and fly in, but business travelers around the country are compelled by circumstance to buy "walk up fare" tickets by the thousands every day, and at DFW, they simply have to pay more than for equivalent trips from other areas.

Cheese and Rice!
The reason walk-up fares are SO DARN 'SPENSIVE, is because there are thousands of guys, just like me, that will walk in to their office tomorrow and find out they need to be in Wichita by the close of business that afternoon.
We have no choice but to pay it, and the Legacy carriers have built their entire business model around this known fact of life. Gouging is a big part of the culture that drives AA.

I would venture a guess that Southwest Airlines carries the most same day business travelers than any other airline. Every flight I've been on, has been half leisure-yahoos, the other half, going to some dang place to save a deal.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
The comments Mr. Cox, the COO of DFW are, in part;

“As for the Southwest petition drive, let's not forget how these signatures were obtained – by offering Southwest employees free airline tickets, by antagonizing and pressuring travelers, many of whom did not want to sign, and by giving out less than complete information about the facts of the Wright Amendment. In short, we question the usefulness of such an effort.”

And good ol' Jim Wright, whose legacy still lives with us today, didn't make a nice tidy sum for his nifty little stroke of the pen?
American et al paid a handsome fee for the gesture...don't you dare not believe it.



Delete this User
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2812 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 14):
The dog ate my Texan-English dictionary....please be so kind sir and translate "SOSDD" for me.

Same old s***, different day....  Smile


User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2986 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2792 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
by offering Southwest employees free airline tickets, by antagonizing and pressuring travelers, many of whom did not want to sign,

What rubbish.

Southwest employees already receive free, unlimited travel.

Antagonizing customers? Be for real. Southwest is about the friendliest organization out there. As for people signing who didn't want to, that's their own problem

Ridicilous.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineRachelBDL From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 72 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days ago) and read 2773 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
“As for the Southwest petition drive, let's not forget how these signatures were obtained – by offering Southwest employees free airline tickets, by antagonizing and pressuring travelers, many of whom did not want to sign, and by giving out less than complete information about the facts of the Wright Amendment. In short, we question the usefulness of such an effort.”

No free tickets for me! The way it was done here in BDL, we had a clipboard with the petition on it sitting at the gate podium. If someone asked about it, we explained. If they wanted to, they signed. Although, I do admit to making my sister sign as she was non-reving through BWI.

Hey, OPNLguy, I may be visiting HDQ and dispatch in the near future, looking to do a day in the field! Of course, it'd take me all day to get to DAL...



I not only drink the KoolAid, I do the Jello shots too!
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days ago) and read 2754 times:

Quoting RachelBDL (Reply 17):
Hey, OPNLguy, I may be visiting HDQ and dispatch in the near future, looking to do a day in the field! Of course, it'd take me all day to get to DAL...

Look me up, or email via my profile...  Smile


User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4252 posts, RR: 29
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days ago) and read 2748 times:

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 8):
But for every person who signed a petition, there could be several who approve of the status quo.

For every person who votes in an election, there are several that don't.

This is a democracy. If those who approve of the status quo don't want anything changed, let them start a petition drive as well.

Or is WN holding a gun to their heads?



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days ago) and read 2742 times:

I would like to see the evidence that Southwest is bribing...making accusations like that is very UNPROFESSIONAL...that guy is a freakin moron.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineKensukeAida From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 217 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days ago) and read 2727 times:

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 20):
I would like to see the evidence that Southwest is bribing...making accusations like that is very UNPROFESSIONAL...that guy is a freakin moron.

No Duh. And the sad for him is that when the WA is repealed he probably won't be so buddy-buddy with AA anymore. No more free meal ticket for Mr. Cox.

He's scared. Plain and simple.

- John


User currently offlineCjpark From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1234 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days ago) and read 2716 times:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bribery

Bribery is the practice of offering a professional or an authority person money or other favours in order to circumvent ethics or other rules in a variety of situations. It is a form of corruption and is generally illegal, or at least cause for sanctions from one's employer or professional organization. Often the term corruption generally refers to bribery.

For example, a motorist may bribe a police officer not to issue a ticket for speeding, a citizen seeking paperwork or utility line connections may bribe a functionary for faster service, a construction company may bribe a civil servant to award a contract, or a narcotics smuggler may bribe a judge to lessen criminal penalties.

In some cases, the briber holds a powerful role and controls the transaction; in other cases, a bribe may be effectively extracted from the person paying it.

Expectations of when a monetary transaction is appropriate can also differ: tipping, for example, is considered bribery in some societies.

The level of non-monetary favours that constitute an incentive to unethical behaviour is variable and may constitute a matter of opinion in a given field:


Had Cox said that PAX were given free tickets to sign the petition that would have been bribery. Providing incentives to employees is legal. Cox does not accuse WN of bribery in his statement that is linked to this thread. He does suggest that WN might have pushy with its customers to get the petition signed.



"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 3 days ago) and read 2714 times:

I have to respectfully disagree...Cox is making unsubstantiated accusations because he knows that the Wright amendment will be repealed and he is probably sh*tting his pants at this point.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2684 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
“As for the Southwest petition drive, let's not forget how these signatures were obtained – by offering Southwest employees free airline tickets, by antagonizing and pressuring travelers, many of whom did not want to sign, and by giving out less than complete information about the facts of the Wright Amendment. In short, we question the usefulness of such an effort.”

What a moron. It is pretty much impossible for WN to give their people any more free travel than they already get, considering that they can hop on an aircraft anytime they please and fly anywhere in the system for free as long as the plane has a seat.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 8):
In Chicago, virtually every local company that is on the Fortune 500 list is in favor of ORD expansion.

Um, that is because ORD's runway configuration needs to be made more efficient so they can handle more flights with fewer delays and better manage major snow storms. DFW doesn't have the weather or layout issues of ORD, except of course that the complex is so big and AA has such concentrated banks that the airport has long taxi times. Those wont go away with a closure or DAL or status quo. The fact is, business travelers in Texas have been using WN for years because of their frequency on trunk routes and low prices, especially for walk up.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 8):
What would be interesting to see is how many major employers in the Metroplex are in favor of repeal.

Well, I can think of at least one that is. Southwest Airlines



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 Post contains images MxCtrlr : The numbers you could get, from one site to another, from one hour to another, are almost certain to be different, making any fare comparison (by you
26 Post contains links Av8trxx : Speaking of which...... "....Last week, someone using a computer with an Internet address assigned to American Airlines edited [the online encycolped
27 KC135TopBoom : Funny, my Webster's 9th New Collegiate Dictionary (okay, yes, it is old), page 178 says: bribevb (1528): to induce or influence by or as if by briber
28 KensukeAida : This is nothing new. Wikipedia is notoriously easy to change because it's a public maintained encyclopedia. I've seen this done on a variety of entri
29 Post contains images KC135TopBoom : That is why I used a real dictionary.
30 Cjpark : He is suggesting that the methods used to obtain the signatures on the petition may not have been above the board. That WN employees may have stepped
31 KC135TopBoom : Then Mr. Cox needs to prove his alligations, or shut up. He is a lawyer, and should know better than to say something stupid like this without overwe
32 OPNLguy : As usual, you're splitting hairs, and ones so thin that they have only one side. This latest response from DFW concerning the petitions is typical of
33 Post contains images KC135TopBoom : Basing the root of DFW's argument on a newspaper reporter, an occupation with all the integrity of used car salesmen, and on this perticular reporter,
34 Post contains links Cjpark : I only reiterated what Cox said if you say that is splitting hairs then ok. Remember this? http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/press/prindex.html DFW
35 Post contains images Srbmod : By the way Cox is going on, you'd think Southwest had these posters out there to get folks to sign their petition:
36 Qxq400 : They can give them free tickets that are not space available. AS/QX gave us all free round trip tickets for our families,not space avalible but real
37 Post contains images Midway2AirTran : Srbmod, That was funny!! When has Southwest been involved in direct preditory practices? Maybe AA and especially NW, but WN??
38 Post contains images OPNLguy : There you go again, changing the subject rather than answering the question... As usual, you conveniently avoid the salient question, i.e. did DFW ha
39 Milemaster : I'm really enjoying reading all of these overly optimistic statements based on what.. a petition? Sorry to say folks, but ultimately those signatures
40 OPNLguy : If you'll recall, this thread involved SWA's petition drive, and if you're basing the opinion of some poster's that Wright will be repealed upon the
41 Midway2AirTran : Economics would come into play and not allow WN a monopoly, or else it would be become expensive to maintain as demand for DAL services increases and
42 Post contains images Milemaster : Well, why don't I brush up on it then. I suppose a good place to start would be to browse though the dozens of WA threads and stop and read all the O
43 Post contains images OPNLguy : Yes, but you singled out petitions ("based on what.. a petition?") inferring that that was the sole source of the optimism. Yes, I confess (Oh, the s
44 2H4 : What attitude are you talking about? Optimism and enthusiasm? Milemaster....I think you meant this as a joke, but if you truly are this affected by a
45 Post contains images Milemaster : After going back and reading my original post I can see how that mislead the direction of my post. So you I suppose you can   me for that. Actually
46 OPNLguy : I'm happy that you're happy...
47 Post contains images FlyingTexan : Difference between non-revenue, space available (NRSA) travel and confirmed space (usually a paid or reward ticket). I believe SWA’s deal with thei
48 2H4 : Ok, cool. For what it's worth, that's not the intended effect. I suspect the recipient's attitude has as much to do with it as anything else. 2H4
49 Cjpark : UPDATE FOR OCTOBER 19, 2005 Business leaders from around North Texas, in addition to those from DFW International Airport, provided comments on Southw
50 TxAgKuwait : TxAgIraq here, dba TxAgKuwait from an undlisclosed location in Iraq. Tell me which is worse--- Southwest "pressuring" passengers to sign a petition wh
51 OPNLguy : Well, that's not really surprising, since many have concluded that you're in a world all your own... So you're saying what you received was the "corr
52 KC135TopBoom : How lucky we AAre to hAAve Kevin Cox, in his shining AArmor, to sAAve us from thAAt evil Southwest Airlines. LOL, OpsGuy. Weel, it seems that at leas
53 Planespotting : man, if sunday mornings werent so boring i wouldn't have read this ENTIRE thread...but here i am. It is obvious what will happen if the Wright Amendme
54 Stirling : Well, I do have a *question*, what exactly do you mean? What criteria have you used to formulate that statement? Actually you would. Dallas CVB would
55 Post contains images OPNLguy : Don't forget, the sea monster will head over to DFW and stomp the place flat, pausing only to take a sea monster-sized dump on where the DFW Administ
56 Cjpark : Yes. I am saying is that I received a link to the article on the website. The link actually points to website article that KC135 included in this thr
57 OPNLguy : So, here you are saying that the quote I used (way back in reply #32) is the incorrect or contrived one, yet in the very same message you say: So, yo
58 Stirling : ....at least it's not a Baby Ruth.
59 CO757bos2iah : Thats like saying Mercedes is "pressuring" me to buy an $90,000 car to go from point A to point B. No one's going to "make" you do anything. Buy an c
60 KC135TopBoom : Can you, or anyone else, on your world read? If so, can you go back to read my original post on this thread? The link that quoted Cox is clearly date
61 Post contains links KC135TopBoom : Just in case, Cj, you cannot find the link, here it is again: http://www.keepdfwstrong.com/news/05/10/101805-comment.html
62 MDorBust : The cheeper car is only allowed to go 1/3 of the way from point A to point B unless it carries 1/2 it's passenger load or less.
63 KC135TopBoom : According to DFW Airport, if the cheap car dealership would simply move to DFW, they can sell cheap cars anywhere in the country. LOL
64 PlanesNTrains : Because that's what you WANT to believe. Evidence is meaningless. I Believe QX Q400's suck - that's what I WANT to believe - it doesn't make it so, i
65 Cjpark : Funny OP, how you conveinently left out the rest of the quote. For the link that KC135 supplied it is the wrong quote. Reads like fair play to me. I
66 OPNLguy : A subject line mentioning "A" and the associated message text discussing "B" is fair? The only mud involved here are the truckloads that you're dumpi
67 Post contains images Cjpark : So one could say that if the subject line was provided by WN and the associated text discussing B was to chastise DFW would that be fair? That is so
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