A recent NY Times article said that NK and Indy Air are on the verge of filing?? I've heard that Indy is close, but didn't hear anything about us... very interesting
Jetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2984 posts, RR: 8 Reply 1, posted (7 years 7 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4145 times:
Perhaps we haven't heard much about this because Spirit is a privately held company, thus not required to make it's financials public. (right?)
Airlines the size of Spirit, serving the low-yield leisure markets that they do are very vulnerable right now.
Worked for too many airlines to list. Banktupcy after bankruptcy after bankruptcy.
N587NK From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 298 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3817 times:
Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 1): Perhaps we haven't heard much about this because Spirit is a privately held company, thus not required to make it's financials public. (right?)
Then how would the NYTs find out this information? Personally i dont believe it, but who knows. We'll see I guess
Apartenly Ben is going to address this on fridays employee hotline update
Aa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3338 posts, RR: 9 Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3753 times:
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3751 times:
The rumors continue that Spirit will go Chapter 11, that Indy will go Chapter 7 and ATA will convert its proceeding into a Chapter 7.....its too soon to tell, a lot will depend on how these smaller carriers did over the important 3rd quarter; if these airlines did not make money (or generate extra cash reserves) over the busy summer travel season, they all will have big problems going into the difficult winter season where airlines typically lose money due to reduced demand.
Regarding Spirit, I really hope that they did not get themselves into trouble - I was very concerned when Spirit annouced the Airbus deal since they seemed to be making the same mistakes that got ATA into trouble: low fare carrier orders lots of shiny new and expensive airplanes to rapidly expand on unproven routes while charging low fares. Spirits new Airbus' are very nice, but can they afford them? And, Spirits route development does not seem to be going according to plan....something is up. Shame.
The future for Indy does not seem great, although they continue to fly......lets be honest, most thought that they would be out of business by now. The enviornment is tough, question is whether they can come up with a route network that makes any sense in order to increase fares, yeilds and loads all at the same time?
Nkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2543 posts, RR: 6 Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3418 times:
Quoting Aa757first (Reply 3): I thought Spirit went public in order to raise funds necessary for the A320 order
No... there has always been talk of NK going public, but they were able to raise the funds through the Oaktree investments and other smaller parties. I wouldn't expect NK to go public any time soon.
DAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 4 Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3395 times:
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4): Regarding Spirit, I really hope that they did not get themselves into trouble - I was very concerned when Spirit annouced the Airbus deal since they seemed to be making the same mistakes that got ATA into trouble: low fare carrier orders lots of shiny new and expensive airplanes to rapidly expand on unproven routes while charging low fares. Spirits new Airbus' are very nice, but can they afford them? And, Spirits route development does not seem to be going according to plan....something is up.
My thoughts exactly. Spending too much on new airplanes for low yield routes is not normally a recipe for success...unless, of course, you are Southwest.
TOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3220 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3343 times:
Spirit did the right thing in ordering new planes. The old DC9's and MD80's were becoming fuel and MX hogs. I questioned the 321 order at the time, however. Seemed like plane had the potential to leave them with a lot of excess capacity. An all 319 order or even a mix of 319's and 320's would've been better than the 319/321 mix. Too much room in the middle if capacity is too little or too much in a particular market.
JetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3163 times:
Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8): Wouldnt Jet Blue be a good mate for Spirit?
Maybe but I know jetBlue would love to use their gates and landing slots at FLL. Otherwise, kind of, they both have A320 series planes, focused on Florida routes but jetBlue and Spirit both have their distance. I fly jetBlue and Spirit the most and they are definitely different. But I sure jetBlue could take some planes and slots but otherwise not so much of a match.
Spirit better not go Chap 11 because if they and NW do then well DTW will be a ghost town. I would expect many airlines to jump in there. They better not though because my brother flies them to and from college.
SHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3661 posts, RR: 18 Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3084 times:
Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 9): Maybe but I know jetBlue would love to use their gates and landing slots at FLL.
Spirit uses the common-use Terminal Four at FLL, and FLL is not slot restricted. Spirit's assets that are specific to FLL are non-existent.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
JetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 4 days ago) and read 2995 times:
Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 11): Spirit uses the common-use Terminal Four at FLL, and FLL is not slot restricted. Spirit's assets that are specific to FLL are non-existent.
Ok, sorry but Spirit does use all 10 Gates in T4 a couple times a day so jetBlue could have flights out of there and have some open space at T4 during certain times. But a 2 Terminal operation is annoying, but it is still and idea, I do like T1 a lot (I was there in July and will be in Dec.)
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31115 posts, RR: 74 Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2936 times:
Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 13):
Yeah they would....especially when they are going to start downsizing FLL a bit to cut the extra capacity they caused.
They are not downsizing anything. This winter, they are flying more flights to FLL than ever before. What jetBlue is doing is growing at FLL this year less than they have in the past. No downsizing whatsoever.
Nkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2543 posts, RR: 6 Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2711 times:
Quoting IslipWN (Reply 10): If anything they should have ordered something more like an A318/A319 mix or an A319/A320 mix.
I agree... I would have liked to see the A320 also. I believe the thinking was that they could fill the A321 to the Caribbean.
Either way, NK would have had to order new planes. The M80's burn way to much fuel. The A321 burns much less fuel on the same route than an 80 does, and carries 48 more people. I guess we will see what Ben's response is to the article on todays employee hotline.
LACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3746 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2669 times:
Does NK have the option of changing their 32X orders around and into different ac? Maybe they should pick up some 318s for the thinner routes and additional 319s instead of more 321s, though I can see why they have the 321, that being for those high load factor Florida flights.
BTW, how are they doing on their "near" transcons,i.e., LAX, etc??
PHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7251 posts, RR: 25 Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2624 times:
If NK did file, I wonder how that will impact the proposed terminal expansion over at ACY... especially since they're the main reason SJTA even considered such a proposal?
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Islandboy From Bahamas, joined Dec 2003, 165 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2318 times:
Quoting Nkops (Reply 15): I agree... I would have liked to see the A320 also. I believe the thinking was that they could fill the A321 to the Caribbean.
Nkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2543 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2254 times:
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 18): IIRC, NK retired their DC-9s well before the Airbii order
You are correct.. the DC-9's were retired awhile ago, because of the expense to put the hush kits on them
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 17): If NK did file, I wonder how that will impact the proposed terminal expansion over at ACY... especially since they're the main reason SJTA even considered such a proposal?
Probably no effect unless they filed CH.7, since SJTA is paying for the expansion themselves, not Spirit. Be too late to stop now anyway, they just had the groundbreaking a couple days ago
Wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5526 posts, RR: 5 Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2026 times:
I have a friend that works at Spirit that wanted me to make a clarification on the report from the New York Times regarding NK's bankruptcy possibility.
First of all, NK continues to receive Airbus airplanes. New aircraft continue to be delivered (1 A319 recently, 1 A321 and 1 more A319 will be delivered in the next two weeks) and Spirit is considering acquiring more Airbus aircraft.
Secondly, last year, an investment firm invested $225 million in Spirit.
Thirdly, unlike the major airlines, Spirit is hedged for 95% of its fuel requirements in 2005, so it has not been paying the even higher fuel costs that the major bankrupt airlines like Northwest and Delta have.
NK has made it known to the NYT that their report is erroneous, by placing Spirit along with FlyI in the bankruptcy possibilities.
N587NK From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 298 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1997 times:
Ben had said in the employee hotline update today that they contacted the NYTs about the report, including the editor and the write or the article. He said it was an error and they confused Spirit with an airline that was in fact in major finacial problems. NOT SPIRIT!
Nkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2543 posts, RR: 6 Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1878 times:
Quoting N587NK (Reply 23): He said it was an error and they confused Spirit with an airline that was in fact in major finacial problems. NOT SPIRIT!
Let's sue them!!! No , just kidding. The fact is, I don't believe we are in that much trouble. The article says an analyst said it, so it really is just an opinion of one person, and probably not based on any real facts (since it is hard to know the true financial stability of a private company.)
I DO NOT work for NK
25 Midway2AirTran: Maybe it was the "Spirit Of Delta" aircraft that the author saw and got confused. I really questioned those reports when I first saw them, especially
26 PHXinterrupted: Hedged at what price? And 2005 is almost over; what about 2006?
27 Wedgetail737: I wasn't given the fuel hedge price or how much they managed to hedge in 2006. It's probably proprietary info with NK.
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