Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
NK On Verge Of Bankruptcy?  
User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2662 posts, RR: 6
Posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5413 times:

http://travel2.nytimes.com/2005/10/16/travel/16prac.html

A recent NY Times article said that NK and Indy Air are on the verge of filing?? I've heard that Indy is close, but didn't hear anything about us... very interesting


I have no association with Spirit Airlines
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5338 times:

Perhaps we haven't heard much about this because Spirit is a privately held company, thus not required to make it's financials public. (right?)

Airlines the size of Spirit, serving the low-yield leisure markets that they do are very vulnerable right now.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineN587NK From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5010 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 1):
Perhaps we haven't heard much about this because Spirit is a privately held company, thus not required to make it's financials public. (right?)

Then how would the NYTs find out this information? Personally i dont believe it, but who knows. We'll see I guess

Apartenly Ben is going to address this on fridays employee hotline update


User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4946 times:

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 1):


Perhaps we haven't heard much about this because Spirit is a privately held company, thus not required to make it's financials public. (right?)

I thought Spirit went public in order to raise funds necessary for the A320 order.

AAndrew


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4944 times:

The rumors continue that Spirit will go Chapter 11, that Indy will go Chapter 7 and ATA will convert its proceeding into a Chapter 7.....its too soon to tell, a lot will depend on how these smaller carriers did over the important 3rd quarter; if these airlines did not make money (or generate extra cash reserves) over the busy summer travel season, they all will have big problems going into the difficult winter season where airlines typically lose money due to reduced demand.

Regarding Spirit, I really hope that they did not get themselves into trouble - I was very concerned when Spirit annouced the Airbus deal since they seemed to be making the same mistakes that got ATA into trouble: low fare carrier orders lots of shiny new and expensive airplanes to rapidly expand on unproven routes while charging low fares. Spirits new Airbus' are very nice, but can they afford them? And, Spirits route development does not seem to be going according to plan....something is up. Shame.

The future for Indy does not seem great, although they continue to fly......lets be honest, most thought that they would be out of business by now. The enviornment is tough, question is whether they can come up with a route network that makes any sense in order to increase fares, yeilds and loads all at the same time?


User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2662 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4611 times:

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 3):
I thought Spirit went public in order to raise funds necessary for the A320 order

No... there has always been talk of NK going public, but they were able to raise the funds through the Oaktree investments and other smaller parties. I wouldn't expect NK to go public any time soon.



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4588 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
Regarding Spirit, I really hope that they did not get themselves into trouble - I was very concerned when Spirit annouced the Airbus deal since they seemed to be making the same mistakes that got ATA into trouble: low fare carrier orders lots of shiny new and expensive airplanes to rapidly expand on unproven routes while charging low fares. Spirits new Airbus' are very nice, but can they afford them? And, Spirits route development does not seem to be going according to plan....something is up.

My thoughts exactly. Spending too much on new airplanes for low yield routes is not normally a recipe for success...unless, of course, you are Southwest.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4536 times:

Spirit did the right thing in ordering new planes. The old DC9's and MD80's were becoming fuel and MX hogs. I questioned the 321 order at the time, however. Seemed like plane had the potential to leave them with a lot of excess capacity. An all 319 order or even a mix of 319's and 320's would've been better than the 319/321 mix. Too much room in the middle if capacity is too little or too much in a particular market.

User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4400 times:

Wouldnt Jet Blue be a good mate for Spirit?

KAHALA777


User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4356 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 8):
Wouldnt Jet Blue be a good mate for Spirit?

Maybe but I know jetBlue would love to use their gates and landing slots at FLL. Otherwise, kind of, they both have A320 series planes, focused on Florida routes but jetBlue and Spirit both have their distance. I fly jetBlue and Spirit the most and they are definitely different. But I sure jetBlue could take some planes and slots but otherwise not so much of a match.

Spirit better not go Chap 11 because if they and NW do then well DTW will be a ghost town. I would expect many airlines to jump in there. They better not though because my brother flies them to and from college.

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineIslipWN From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4319 times:

I really hope they don't file for bankruptcy. Spirit is a great airline!

I was too shocked when they ordered the A319/A321 mix. If anything they should have ordered something more like an A318/A319 mix or an A319/A320 mix.

If they filed for Ch. 7, who do you think would snatch up the gate space at FLL first? Man, the airlines would be on that like flies on $hit.


Joe


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4277 times:

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 9):
Maybe but I know jetBlue would love to use their gates and landing slots at FLL.

Spirit uses the common-use Terminal Four at FLL, and FLL is not slot restricted. Spirit's assets that are specific to FLL are non-existent.



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4188 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 11):
Spirit uses the common-use Terminal Four at FLL, and FLL is not slot restricted. Spirit's assets that are specific to FLL are non-existent.

Ok, sorry but Spirit does use all 10 Gates in T4 a couple times a day so jetBlue could have flights out of there and have some open space at T4 during certain times. But a 2 Terminal operation is annoying, but it is still and idea, I do like T1 a lot (I was there in July and will be in Dec.)

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4581 posts, RR: 23
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4155 times:

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 9):
Maybe but I know jetBlue would love to use their gates and landing slots at FLL

Yeah they would....especially when they are going to start downsizing FLL a bit to cut the extra capacity they caused.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32703 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4129 times:

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 13):

Yeah they would....especially when they are going to start downsizing FLL a bit to cut the extra capacity they caused.

They are not downsizing anything. This winter, they are flying more flights to FLL than ever before. What jetBlue is doing is growing at FLL this year less than they have in the past. No downsizing whatsoever.



a.
User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2662 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3904 times:

Quoting IslipWN (Reply 10):
If anything they should have ordered something more like an A318/A319 mix or an A319/A320 mix.

I agree... I would have liked to see the A320 also. I believe the thinking was that they could fill the A321 to the Caribbean.

Either way, NK would have had to order new planes. The M80's burn way to much fuel. The A321 burns much less fuel on the same route than an 80 does, and carries 48 more people. I guess we will see what Ben's response is to the article on todays employee hotline.



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4006 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3862 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Does NK have the option of changing their 32X orders around and into different ac? Maybe they should pick up some 318s for the thinner routes and additional 319s instead of more 321s, though I can see why they have the 321, that being for those high load factor Florida flights.

BTW, how are they doing on their "near" transcons,i.e., LAX, etc??

LACA773


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7517 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3817 times:

If NK did file, I wonder how that will impact the proposed terminal expansion over at ACY... especially since they're the main reason SJTA even considered such a proposal?


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7517 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3698 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 7):
The old DC9's and MD80's were becoming fuel and MX hogs.

IIRC, NK retired their DC-9s well before the Airbii order and definitely before they changed their livery (to the white & blue pixel squares).



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineN587NK From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3661 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Nkops (Reply 15):
I guess we will see what Ben's response is to the article on todays employee hotline.

He said it was absolutely not true


User currently offlineIslandboy From Bahamas, joined Dec 2003, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3511 times:

Quoting Nkops (Reply 15):
I agree... I would have liked to see the A320 also. I believe the thinking was that they could fill the A321 to the Caribbean.

They can..just depends where they fly it.



Looks like the fresh wind has gone stale
User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2662 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3447 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 18):
IIRC, NK retired their DC-9s well before the Airbii order

You are correct.. the DC-9's were retired awhile ago, because of the expense to put the hush kits on them

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 17):
If NK did file, I wonder how that will impact the proposed terminal expansion over at ACY... especially since they're the main reason SJTA even considered such a proposal?

Probably no effect unless they filed CH.7, since SJTA is paying for the expansion themselves, not Spirit. Be too late to stop now anyway, they just had the groundbreaking a couple days ago



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5894 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 3219 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I have a friend that works at Spirit that wanted me to make a clarification on the report from the New York Times regarding NK's bankruptcy possibility.

First of all, NK continues to receive Airbus airplanes. New aircraft continue to be delivered (1 A319 recently, 1 A321 and 1 more A319 will be delivered in the next two weeks) and Spirit is considering acquiring more Airbus aircraft.

Secondly, last year, an investment firm invested $225 million in Spirit.

Thirdly, unlike the major airlines, Spirit is hedged for 95% of its fuel requirements in 2005, so it has not been paying the even higher fuel costs that the major bankrupt airlines like Northwest and Delta have.

NK has made it known to the NYT that their report is erroneous, by placing Spirit along with FlyI in the bankruptcy possibilities.


User currently offlineN587NK From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 3190 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Ben had said in the employee hotline update today that they contacted the NYTs about the report, including the editor and the write or the article. He said it was an error and they confused Spirit with an airline that was in fact in major finacial problems. NOT SPIRIT!

User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2662 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3071 times:

Quoting N587NK (Reply 23):
He said it was an error and they confused Spirit with an airline that was in fact in major finacial problems. NOT SPIRIT!

Let's sue them!!! No , just kidding. The fact is, I don't believe we are in that much trouble. The article says an analyst said it, so it really is just an opinion of one person, and probably not based on any real facts (since it is hard to know the true financial stability of a private company.)



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
25 Post contains images Midway2AirTran : Maybe it was the "Spirit Of Delta" aircraft that the author saw and got confused. I really questioned those reports when I first saw them, especially
26 PHXinterrupted : Hedged at what price? And 2005 is almost over; what about 2006?
27 Wedgetail737 : I wasn't given the fuel hedge price or how much they managed to hedge in 2006. It's probably proprietary info with NK.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Delta On The Verge Of Bankruptcy posted Fri Mar 12 2004 06:24:26 by MEA321
Varig On Verge Of Collapse posted Fri Apr 21 2006 10:32:34 by 7LBAC111
Bmi On Verge Of BIG U-Turn...? posted Thu Jul 21 2005 17:31:49 by BlueShamu330s
Ben Gurion Airport On Verge Of Shutdown posted Sat Jun 25 2005 11:02:23 by PU803
Flybe On Verge Of Converting Q400 Options posted Fri Jan 21 2005 23:44:35 by JobsaGoodun
Alitalia On The Verge Of Collapse posted Tue Oct 10 2006 11:42:27 by FD728
LAB On The Verge Of Closing Down posted Tue Mar 28 2006 16:16:58 by Bullpitt
United Airlines On Brink Of Exiting Bankruptcy posted Thu Jan 19 2006 00:26:33 by IceTitan447
Air France On The Verge Of A Tragedy... posted Tue Dec 17 2002 14:32:28 by CaboVerde
Iberia Shares Rise On Speculation Of BA Takeover posted Sat Oct 21 2006 19:03:47 by Concorde001