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Why No JFK-HNL Route?  
User currently offlineSquirrel83 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7273 times:

I know there is a CO route EWR-HNL but why no HNL-JFK?
Why hasn't DL, AA, or even NW tried doing a JFK-HNL route? Even with JL at JFK & HNL why not a JFK-HNL-NRT route?

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7259 times:

Lack of demand, below-average yeilds and connections available at LAX, SFO and major hubs result in no nonstop sevice between JFK and HNL......CO makes EWR-HNL work because of the power of the EWR hub and that flight seems to cover the demand from the NYC area to HNL as far as nonstop service.

Its a long way from NYC to Hawaii, destinations in the carib, latin america, the bahamas and florida are much closer and cost less; although Hawaii is beautiful, 10+ is a long way to fly for a beach holiday.

UA at one time flew JFK-HNL nonstop ( I did it back in the 1970s) with DC8-62s......I believe that TWA also tried the route for a short period (they certainly had onestop 747 service on the JFK-STL-HNL route for a long time).


User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7179 times:

JFK-HNL-NRT would be way out of the way EWR-NRT is less the 13 Hours
EWR-HNL is 10... NYC had no HNL service for along time before CO stated EWR-HNL ATA tried JFK-HNL for awhile but cut it after the L1011's were going away...


User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7154 times:

didnt CO at one point back before the people exp takover have a jfk-hnl n/s on the 10-30???????


bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineB6FA4ever From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 816 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7076 times:

i think i heard/read someone say that Hawaiian Air was possibly gonna start HNL-JFK but 9/11 came and those plans were shot. i wonder if that is still a market they would attempt if they start receiving more B767's. would be great to see Pualani in JFK while i'm on my sit-times there!  Smile especially if they were to park her over at Term 7 (wishful thinking tho) they'd probably end up over w/ DL at Term 3.

~B6FA4ever


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21500 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 6 days ago) and read 7003 times:

When HA gets a few more planes, JFK-HNL will be "on the list." Give them a year.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineHa763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3654 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6965 times:
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Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 3):
didnt CO at one point back before the people exp takover have a jfk-hnl n/s on the 10-30???????

Yes they did. They stopped for a short time and then restarted NYC service from EWR.

Quoting B6FA4ever (Reply 4):
i think i heard/read someone say that Hawaiian Air was possibly gonna start HNL-JFK but 9/11 came and those plans were shot.

Back in late 2001, when I was still working at HA and after years of rumors, I was told that JFK was supposed be have been announced on Sept. 16. But then the terrorist attacks happened and those plans were dropped. I also remember being told that JAL would handle the pax service, which would have had HA in Terminal 1.


User currently offlineToptravel From Italy, joined Oct 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6865 times:

PA used to do it with a 742, TW from STL and UA years ago. Guess CO was not seeing the return they needed.

User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2159 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6832 times:

This is an ideal route for HA. Fits perfectly into their schedule.

User currently offlinePhoenixX2 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6781 times:

Hey Ha763 did not HA eye the BWI market first on the East Coast? Just waiting for two more 763s. Maybe you heard something out there.

Rdgs


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16854 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6648 times:

CO used to fly nonstop JFK-HNL-SYD with a DC-10-30, the flight operated out of the Eastern Terminal. CO has the only nonstop because of their strong EWR hub and the huge Onepass customer base in the NYC Metro area.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJohnClipper From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2005, 842 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6517 times:

The CO route from JFK was before the real growth at EWR. CO and EA fed the flight from JFK. PA was always 1-stop from JFK to HNL via LAX or SFO (B747). UA was 1-stop from EWR to HNL via ORD (B747)

User currently offlineHNL-Jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6453 times:

For a couple of years I had to fly between NYC and HNL every other week. When I started Pan American had a daily non-stop 742 out of JFK. With the demise of Pan Am, TWA initiated service with a 742. When they withdrew, Continental initiated service with a DC-10-30 out of the Eastern terminal at JFK to SYD via HNL. After several months it moved to EWR and was withdrawn from service after about six months.

What I found interesting was that I don't recall one flight that wasn't at least 90%. And, if yield was a problem, the airfares I was charged wouldn't support that claim.

New York is only second to LAX in terms of originating traffic to Hawaii. Currently 14% of all N. American visitors and less than 4% of the seats.



Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
User currently offlineAirzim From Zimbabwe, joined Jun 2001, 1202 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6443 times:

Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 11):
The CO route from JFK was before the real growth at EWR. CO and EA fed the flight from JFK.

Also because the runways at EWR were too short for the DC-10-30's. CO tried to use a 747-200 out of EWR but there to, they often had to tech stop in SFO or LAX. So they gave up and went with a scheduled stop in SFO. When the runways were finally lengthened it went to a full time non-stop with with the DC-10-30's and the EWR-SFO-HNL was dropped. AFIAK, it also coincided with the SFO-HNL drop as well


User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6443 times:

Quoting HNL-Jack" class=quote target=_blank>HNL-Jack (Reply 12):
For a couple of years I had to fly between NYC and HNL every other week. When I started Pan American had a daily non-stop 742 out of JFK. With the demise of Pan Am, TWA initiated service with a 742. When they withdrew, Continental initiated service with a DC-10-30 out of the Eastern terminal at JFK to SYD via HNL. After several months it moved to EWR and was withdrawn from service after about six months.

What I found interesting was that I don't recall one flight that wasn't at least 90%. And, if yield was a problem, the airfares I was charged wouldn't support that claim.

I'd imagine yields is a problem now, whereas when you were flying (judging from the existence of Pan Am and TWA... it's a while ago) it wasn't so bad?


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13073 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6358 times:

If I am correct, doesn't CO operate a daily EWR-HNL-EWR with a 777? From previous discussions here, doesn't it usually have good loads?
Problems for such a JFK/EWR-HNL route is that many of the flights may not have the numbers of premium fare pax as would via LAX, ORD or some other hub and the high percentage of 'package' tourists. I am quite sure the EWR-HNL flight hardly has any FF seats available (especially 1st/biz on FF basis). You also have one stop service by UA, AA and others whom may offer better pricing. Many will be willing to save a few bucks by accepting a one-stop direct or one-change of equipment flight.


User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6810 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6311 times:

Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 11):
PA was always 1-stop from JFK to HNL via LAX or SFO (B747).

Except around 1987 when they had a JFK-HNL nonstop two or three days a week.


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6302 times:

Quoting JohnClipper (Reply 11):
UA was 1-stop from EWR to HNL via ORD (B747)

United DID fly JFK-HNL Nonstop.
Early 1970's before the OPEC oil embargo crisis.
After that, it never appeared again.
The aircraft used was the DC-8-60 series streeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch.



Delete this User
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16854 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5942 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 15):
If I am correct, doesn't CO operate a daily EWR-HNL-EWR with a 777?

EWR-HNL is a daily 767-400, prior to that it was a Daily DC-10-30.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32689 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5888 times:

Quoting Squirrel83 (Thread starter):
Even with JL at JFK & HNL why not a JFK-HNL-NRT route?

A foreign carrier cannot carry domestic traffic.



a.
User currently offlineHAVIK747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5477 times:

CO also feeds it HNL-GUM service from EWR-HNL

User currently offlineAA87 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4978 times:

True that many NYers from city and even Long Island will go to EWR for the CO non-stop, but as we all know markets can be created. TWA was low profile with their non-stop, and you need daily to change mindset. I would think if DL, AA or HA started non-stop and a little marketing, they'd do well enough to justify it. On the other hand, now there are so many mainland non-stops to the other islands, no longer much need to go into or out of HNL if that's not where you're headed.

And I agree, seeing HA's awesome colors would be welcome on a gray JFK winter day


User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3431 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4840 times:

I have a feeling we will see a B6 JFK-OAK-HNL thru flight before we see AA or DL jump in the market.

PJ


User currently offlineMoose1226 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 250 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4278 times:

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 22):
I have a feeling we will see a B6 JFK-OAK-HNL thru flight before we see AA or DL jump in the market.

Can't be done. Even if the the 320 has the range (which I'm not sure about), they aren't ETOPS certified.


User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5150 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4156 times:

Quoting COSPN (Reply 2):
ATA tried JFK-HNL for awhile but cut it after the L1011's were going away...

The ATA flight was actually a Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays charter (on which ATA could sell some of the extra seats). Very high service level, and yet PHH cancelled it pretty quickly due to insufficient demand. They also used the same plane on other days of the week to ORD. Neither service survived. It didn't have to do with the L1011s "going away", as the L1011 used on that flight was one of their then-recently-acquired -500 series Tristars, four of which are still in use (on military charters).


25 N62NA : While JFK would seem most likely to "balance out" the opportunity between the 2 airports, it would be fantastic to see HA at EWR!
26 Ha763 : I know that HA has looked at many cities over the years. I wouldn't be surprised if BWI was looked at, but I think if HA were to fly to that area, IA
27 MAH4546 : A320s have the range. OAK-HNL is almost 300 miles shorter than OAK-BOS. And jetBlue can get them ETOPs certified if they wish. They are all overwater
28 B6FA4ever : ok...can someone explain to me the meaning of "flag carrier status"? thanx ~B6FA4ever
29 TAN FLYR : exactly..UA used a DC-8-62 and I believe it was dropped in late 1973 during the Arab oil embargo.
30 Post contains images N62NA : Well, the -62 was a bit of a stretch, but not a streeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch (like the -61 or -63).
31 Post contains images Bomber996 : I don't know. I think that in order to do a flight to Hawaii you need to have a lot more fuel then if the flight was over land. This is simply becaus
32 Post contains images F27XXX : Don't get me wrong, B6 is a great airline ... but OMFG an A320 from JFK to OAK to HNL !?! 6+hrs then another 5 !?! On an A320? No way. Tony
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