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WN To Serve Denver International  
User currently offlineJohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2665 posts, RR: 6
Posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 12132 times:

Hath hell frozen over indeed?


245 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineJohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2665 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 12119 times:

Southwest Airlines to Serve Denver International Airport
DALLAS, Oct. 20 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV), the nation's low-fare leader, announced today it will initiate service from Denver International Airport beginning in early 2006. The airline will announce specifics of its flight schedule and fares via a news conference in Denver next week.

"Southwest has experienced strong Customer demand to serve an obvious gap in our route network, and this service will return Southwest's legendary low fares to Colorado," said Gary Kelly, Southwest's Chief Executive Officer. "Denver's growing community is one we have studied and intended to serve, for quite some time, and we look forward to also serving the people of the entire State of Colorado."

Southwest's announcement today is a testament to the positive changes that have occurred as a result of the construction and cost conscious operation of Denver International Airport. Southwest served the Denver market between 1983 and 1986 from Stapleton International Airport. Since then, the Denver airport system has established a strong infrastructure, with six runways, and substantially reduced its rates on a cost per passenger basis, creating an economically attractive environment for Southwest Airlines. Additionally, Denver International Airport was ranked number one for ontime arrivals in 2004, making the airport a great fit for Southwest's quick aircraft turn times.

"Over time, Denver International has dramatically reduced its costs, increased its efficiency, and demonstrated that Denver can be a viable opportunity for Southwest Airlines," Kelly said. "This year a leading travel publication named Denver as the 'Best Airport in North America.'"

Southwest Airlines was able to accelerate the start-up of this planned new city due to aircraft availability created by Hurricane Katrina-related schedule changes and the resumption of new aircraft deliveries from The Boeing Co. subsequent to the cessation of a Boeing work stoppage.

Historically, when Southwest enters a new city, fares drop substantially and demand for travel greatly increases. The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) in a 1993 study described the phenomenon as the "Southwest Effect." Statistics from one of Southwest's newest cities, Philadelphia, provide a perfect example:

* Since Southwest Airlines entered the Philadelphia market in May 2004,
total Philadelphia traffic has increased nearly 30 percent.
* In the third quarter of 2004, the average one-way fare between
Philadelphia and Chicago Midway Airport fell 46 percent, while traffic
increased by 137 percent. In addition, the average one-way fare between
Philadelphia and Chicago O'Hare (an airport that Southwest Airlines
does not serve) fell 44 percent, while traffic increased by 28 percent,
showing that Southwest Airlines' arrival in new markets benefits even
sister airports and other airlines.

Southwest has reported 32 consecutive years of profitability and job security for its Employees, and earlier this year celebrated its 34th year in business. Based in Dallas, Southwest operates a fleet of 439 Boeing 737s with an average age of nine years-among the youngest pure jet fleets in the domestic airline industry. Southwest Airlines, the nation's largest carrier in terms of domestic passengers enplaned, currently serves 61 airports in 31 states. Based in Dallas, Southwest currently operates more than 2,900 flights a day and has 31,000+ Employees systemwide.


User currently offlineBNAtraveler From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 12082 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

here's hoping for a n/s to BNA!!!

User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5413 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 12020 times:

Wow...I thought DIA was tight for space. I didn't see this one coming--can't wait to see what F9 and UA do.

Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1257 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 12012 times:

This is great news as I love going to Denver and into the rockies but the fares seem very expensive. Hopefully the "southwest effect" will force UA and F9 into reducing their fares a bit which can only be good for the city and local tourism. I was in Denver last week and the city seems to be pushing tourism very hard so this can't do them any harm at all.

Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7100 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 11995 times:

While this will hurt both UA and F9, I actually believe F9 might be more vulnerable. Almost any route WN launches will directly compete with UA and F9. That means many routes will have 3 (or more) carriers which may be too much.

F9 might find itself sandwiched in between a strong LCC and a traditional network carrier (who has lowered their costs substantially in BK).

User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11979 times:

I would presume that they will launch their service with the following cities.

User currently offlineFlightopsguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11925 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 5):
While this will hurt both UA and F9, I actually believe F9 might be more vulnerable. Almost any route WN launches will directly compete with UA and F9. That means many routes will have 3 (or more) carriers which may be too much.

F9 might find itself sandwiched in between a strong LCC and a traditional network carrier (who has lowered their costs substantially in BK).

You are so correct. F9 does not have the same resources to compete that UA has. This will overall be good for the DEN area, however, WN will also encounter some unique operating challenges at DEN, with reduced takeoff weights during the hot summer months, and de-icing challenges during the winter, not to mention Pena Blvd slowing to a crawl during the snowstorms.

Anybody know what percentage of the traffic at DEN is O&D as compared to connecting?

This could also force out some carriers that have very minor presences at DEN.

A300-330 BAC111/146/J31/41 B99/1900 CV580 B707-777 DC8/9/10 L188/1011 FH227/28/100 SB340 DO228 EMB2/170 CR2-900 SH330-60
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11923 times:

A few guesses at Southwest Airlines Denver gateways:

Group A)
Oakland, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Chicago, Philadelphia, Tampa, Baltimore, Orlando

Group B)
Portland, Seattle, St.Louis, Salt Lake, Reno, San Jose, Sacramento, Detroit, Indianapolis


User currently offlineIADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11882 times:

I would bet that ABQ would be one of the first cities.

User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6883 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11868 times:

Personally, I hope they chose some unserved routes along with their obvious routes of MDW, PHX, LAS, BWI, PHL, and LAX....

Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineJet-lagged From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 884 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11836 times:

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 3):
Wow...I thought DIA was tight for space.

That surprises me. I thought DIA had ample room for additional frequencies or new players.

User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11798 times:

An interesting move by Southwest indeed. With Airtran, Frontier and UA there, plus many others, it should be an interesting match-up. Any bets that FL will withdraw from this market??

One Nation Under God
User currently offlineManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1257 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11791 times:

Well isn't DEN the largest airport in the world? One thing they are not short of is space, you can after all fit ORD and DFW into the area covered by DEN (I read this last week but still find it a little difficult to believe).

Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7634 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 11777 times:

I just hope that WN's presence in DEN doesn't force F9 to go out of business. Hopefully, after being around for 11 years; F9 should have developed strong hometown airline relationship with Denver residents following by now.

F9 wasn't even around during the 2 times WN was at Stapleton; although the original Frontier was still around when WN was in DEN the first time.

"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5413 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11747 times:

Aren't they trying to build concourse extensions? Or is there room over at the non hub concourses?

Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11746 times:

I remember seeing SWA 732s serving Stapleton 20 years ago.

Well, it's about time they came back down to earth and served the WHOLE Nation! NOW they can say, "You are now free to move about the country."

So by early next year, Spirit will be the only major airline not serving Denver.

Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineWilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1681 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11746 times:

This is going to be interesting. Congrats to Denver. It is true,Frontier is the most vunerable here. I am waiting to see what happens when those lovely fronts come rushing down the Rockies forcing the Airport to use the crosswind runways. It will be interesting seeing SWA planes joining the Conga line.

SWA pretty much has the country covered,I think soon they will be running out of markets to serve with their business model and using 737s. This is beginning to prove it. Congrats to SWA and DIA.

User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6883 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11731 times:

I expect to shortly see WN in ATL and perhaps MSP soon.. Seems they are going for the most vulnerable fishes right now. Wonder what Big Red is going to do?

Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineYanksn4 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1404 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11722 times:

gee, I would have bet that WN would serve COS lightyears before DEN.

User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5413 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11729 times:

Quoting William (Reply 17):
think soon they will be running out of markets to serve with their business model and using 737s. This is beginning to prove it. Congrats to SWA and DIA.

I'll have to disagree--there are still plenty of 737 markets. I think you'll see them start connecting more dots--then they'll push into other major hubs, like they are doing at DEN. I expect Northwest will be in their sites--MSP, MKE, MEM. Ultimately you'll see them in ATL--that may be a decade or more away though-IMO.

Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6883 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11694 times:

Quoting Yanksn4 (Reply 19):
gee, I would have bet that WN would serve COS lightyears before DEN.

COS only has 9 gates, right? and almost all of them are pre-occupied I think.. not such a WN-esque move..

Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2529 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11616 times:

DEN has plenty of land. Gate space is what they need. DEN actually has fewer gates than the old Stapleton did when it closed. F9 has been lobbying for more gates for years. UAL has more than they really need right now, but I can't see them giving up any. I think at the far east end of the C concourse, one of the the old TWA gates is not being used. That's the only one I can think of.

User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11604 times:

Does anyone else think that there are many other cities that WN should have announced besides DEN? Isn't DEN extremely expensive to operate from?

What about CLT, CVG, RIC etc. DEN just doesnt seem like a WN kind of station.

User currently offlineAzstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 7 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11590 times:

Definitely not good news for F9, which is not a particularly well managed company. The immediate effect, I believe, will be the defection of their best employees at DIA, leaving only the worst performers to man the counters and the gates.They don't have the WN corporate culture where the employees feel connected to the company and feel they have a genuine stake in its success.Frontier has developed a "hub" mentality "we're really important and we can do what we want here" although they have not been able to turn a profit for several years, and will be unable to do so if downward pressure on fares continues. Ultimately, I don't think they will survive.

25 SunValley : Your statement is so untrue. They DO NOT pretty much have the country covered.
26 DAYflyer : CVG has no gates available thanks to DL, RIC is now occupied by Airtran and another recently announced carrier (I have forgotten who); CLT is no loge
27 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Actually, there are plenty of gates available in the dumps they call Terminals 1 and 2, and most of the gates don't have jetways, but that hasn't sca
28 Quickmover : I wonder how this will tie in with ATA. They fly DEN-MDW and just recently started DEN-PHX with a 757. Maybe they will use ATA's gate.
29 IADLHR : Also, isnt this the first city they have opened up west of the Mississippi in quite a number of years?
30 PVD757 : not that there will be nonstops right away, but the greater BOS market (MHT/PVD included) sees an average of 660 passengers each way per day on only 5
31 LTBEWR : I would think that Denver would be an ideal market for WN and apparently now the fees and operations are now better matched for WN's ops and cost stru
32 RL757PVD : I would have much rather seen PVD-DEN on F9, but im starting to think that wont ever happen now
33 Post contains images BigGSFO : So they'll serve the very big DEN but not th very big DFW? Will this also be the first time WN returns to a city they once served, or have there been
34 HAJFlyer : Do you see any chance of WN moving into more "remote" high plains markets such as BIS or RAP where NW is currently the only legacy network airline tha
35 MSYtristar : WOW! All I can say is that i'm glad that I left F9 at DEN. It will probably be a blood bath up there once WN comes to town. Fact is, even though F9 is
36 ERJ170 : Well... since F9, UA, Ted, nor anyone else will do RDU-DEN.. perhaps WN will seize the opportunity.. it is the right size aircraft for the route.. bet
37 Dartland : "In addition, the average one-way fare between Philadelphia and Chicago O'Hare (an airport that Southwest Airlines does not serve) fell 44 percent, wh
38 Atrude777 : 28% increase was for the airport, meaning as WN forces the others to lower airfares, more customers will fly on the legacies because they have lower
39 N1120A : I am sure at least one Texas market, San Diego and ABQ will be in there It is huge, but smaller than 1 other airport, JED
40 Tom in NO : From the press release: Sounds like WN is content to let NW take over the number 1 role at MSY, and frankly, to take a back seat here while most every
41 OPNLguy : Southwest has only served DEN Stapleton once, starting in 1983 and pulling out in 1986, due to bad ATC delays at the old airport. Before you get too
42 PHXinterrupted : F9 better diversify its routes. Perhaps they can open new routes to Canada and the Caribbean.
43 Commavia : This is going to hurt United, but this is really going to hurt Frontier. This is going to be interesting ...
44 Apodino : I kinda figured they might do this, since the reason they pulled out of the old airport was mega delays, and that isn't really an issue at this airpor
45 N1120A : The thing about WN to MSY is that they were the main provider of tourist seats into the market before the hurricane, with the other airlines handling
46 PHLBOS : My bad, that's what I get for rush-reading through the press release at just one glance.
47 Drerx7 : They did serve IAH twice and pulled out for a 3rd time this year.
48 Burnsie28 : If they plan at operating at a loss, Denver is a very expensive airport to operate out of, Western Pacific found that out the hard way. DIA on has on
49 Dolphinflyer : I think that WN would have stimulated more incremental new traffic through commencing service to COS iso DEN. The gains that WN makes at DEN will come
50 STT757 : Sounds like other Colorado Cities are in the works?.. There's no way to compare Charlotte and Cincinnati to Denver, there's tons more traffic going t
51 Ckfred : If WN is adverse to going into DFW, in part, because of the taxi times, wait until they start into DEN. A friend of mine is an AA pilot, and he has fo
52 ERJ170 : How do they compare with the wait times at PHL???
53 Okie : I am thinking this is to appease someone in Colorado while hanging the carrot out there about possible service to DAL with the abolishment of the WA.
54 Goingboeing : Heck...AA pilots out of MCI take about 15 to 20 minutes to taxi to 1L...
55 SPREE34 : At DFW it's distance and time waiting. At DEN it's going to be distance, and then an almost immediate departure clearance. I've never had the time wa
56 Vivavegas : Southwest Effect: FRONTIER AIRLINES (NasdaqNM:FRNT) Delayed quote data Last Trade: 8.40 Trade Time: 10:59AM ET Change: -2.36 (-21.93%) Craig MKE
57 TWA902fly : I think Ted will compete just fine. United/Ted has an extremely strong following in the Denver area, and Ted fares to places such as Florida will be
58 UA744Flagship : Thanks goodness we have Ted aircraft, which can better compete with WN than mainline. Time to prepare battle strategy...
59 Ckfred : ERJ170: You're right about the wait times at PHL. My AA friend hates going into PHL, because there is always a line for takeoff. But the taxi time at
60 ERJ170 : Trust me.. I'd much rather be taxing for 15 minutes and moving, than sitting beside the runway for 20-45 minutes at PHL waiting for clearance to take
61 Goingboeing : Watch a Southwest jet taxi. Then watch an AA jet taxi. Big difference. Now, imagine a Southwest jet trying to taxi out behind a conga line of slow mo
62 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Sucks to be COS! They must be feeling like Allentown now...
63 MAH4546 : Re-read what he said. Southwest claims that the "Southwest Effect" benefits other airlines, and he disputes that. You have to be drinking a lot of ko
64 PA110 : The above is a huge overestimation of WN's plans. WN is exanding "to" Denver. There has been absolutely no mention of WN making DEN a new hub.
65 Commavia : My predictions: *BWI *MDW *LAX *LAS *PHX *MCO
66 Post contains images EA CO AS : Typical WN spin at work. Which ultimately is still harmful because the increase in the volume of passenger traffic typically isn't enough to overcome
67 Junction : That's what I thought. Especially the landing fee part. Wonder what brought on the change of heart for DEN with WN? Guess maybe WN is so well leverag
68 N1120A : DEN has reduced costs of late, and I really doubt WN will use DEN's f'ed up baggage system. Not really, as WN will plan accordingly. They have learne
69 Goingboeing : And as a passenger whose time is money, the faster I am in the air, the better. If a V1-10 taxi speed accomplishes that, more power to 'em.
70 RedFlyer : My guess is they are going to serve the airport predominantly with 700's, which, after all, were intended originally to blunt Airbus 320's. Especiall
71 Gigneil : The plans include out to Concourse E. I'd suggest they get started on D soon. Me too. God knows, Colorado Springs leads the industry in yield. T2 is
72 Texan : We could also question if this is a political move to try to convince Allard and Salazar to vote their way on a hot button issue. Good news for DEN, h
73 N1120A : Which is again proof positive of why legacy carriers need to get away from boom and bust yield based thinking and move to a steady income model like
74 SHUPirate1 : You all don't think that Southwest would start Denver-Salt Lake City or Denver-Kansas City? After all, they do usually like to have at least one or tw
75 Uadc8contrail : cos has 11 open gates......gates 6,5b,7&9. and the entire concourse on the east side(7)4 with jetways and 3 with out since cos sold 3 of the jetways
76 ModernArt : The U.S. legacy carriers have had ample warning - a decade plus - to get their house in order, reduce the number of employees per aircraft, standardi
77 Post contains images DLKAPA : I've seen planes wait for takeoff clearance in the line at 25 for half an hour while the UA arrival bank was in full swing. Agreed. 16, and all 4 on
78 Quickmover : "You all don't think that Southwest would start Denver-Salt Lake City or Denver-Kansas City? After all, they do usually like to have at least one or t
79 Ssides : I am glad WN is starting service to DEN, but this could finally be the PR break that AA and DFW are looking for in the Wright debate. I am somewhat pr
80 Iowaman : I'm quite surprised about this news, I would of thought MSP would of been first.. MSP (which I get this feeling it's coming soon, although not as soon
81 N1120A : DEN is the only choice in Denver, DFW is not the only choice in Dallas DEN is not delay prone in the winter, unless there is a sudden massive blizzar
82 DIA77 : DEN actually ranked number 1 in ontime arrivals (as the article also mentions). The perception of DEN is that it snows all the time and that there ar
83 Falcon flyer : Probably one of the greater examples of why very few can predict the direction of this industry. I'm kind of surprised that no one heard any rumblings
84 DLKAPA : Unless WN plans on a "Open up APA" debate (which I see them looking into but probably going nowhere), they'll have to stay at DEN because it's curren
85 CO757bos2iah : Because AA would SPANK that a** AA has a loyal business following. I don't think everyone is going to up and leave the Admirals Lounge for elbow-to-e
86 Drerx7 : What do you mean no other airport can?
87 PHLBOS : As with DEN, there is no airport within 10 to 20 miles from PHL that can support a sizable airline like WN from the get-go. Plus, until the HP merger
88 King : I love how everyone has F9 closing its doors tomorrow. Don't forget that F9 has a loyal following in DEN, great fares, inflight entertainment, and ser
89 SLCPilot : I'm with DIA77. While I don't live in Denver, and I rarely have to buy a plane ticket, but given the choice of flying United, Southwest, or Frontier,
90 Alphascan : Azstar: Your post reminds me of the FedEx commercial. "Everything you say is wrong".
91 Stirling : AA does not dominate DEN with over 800 daily flights. Big Difference. I can't think of another airport/airline combination more synergistic. The disc
92 Alphascan : Ted is dead in the water in terms of growth at DEN, in fact they LOST share in June. UA has been losing DEN market share at an alarming rate for year
93 King : F9 competes directly with WN in about 500 city pairs and is already competitive with them in pricing. The most recent DOT statistics (June quarter 200
94 N1120A : Perhaps, but it is completely true No other airport can operate simultaneus ILS approaches on each and every one of its runways at the same time.
95 Vegasplanes : Anybody with ideas as to destinations, number of flights, effect on F9 and UA? My guess is service to: PHX x 4 LAS x 3 MDW x 5 BNA or STL x 2 to start
96 Brons2 : Wow, this is really amazing and unexpected news. Question, WN currently flies to DEN via the TZ codeshare. I am of the thinking that to some degree WN
97 RL757PVD : What will be interesting is for WN's biggest cities out west PHX and LAS. WN with be for 4th Low-fare airline behing F9 HP/US and Ted in these, seems
98 Gigneil : Well, not quite true. DEN can support 3 simultaneous ILS approaches on the N/S runways. No other airport presently can. I don't think DEN can do quad
99 Stirling : The first part of the sentence qualifies everything that follows thereafter. Nothing on earth is "-proof"....Mother Nature sees to that. Denver I.A.
100 HPRamper : I thought F9 was a fairly strong carrier...while not massive size-wise, they have a sensible route network, a good hub and loyal customers. And they
101 SPREE34 : Cost of operating at DEN less than operating at DFW. They don't need DFW they have DAL. Cost of operating out of DAL less than DFW. They see a money
102 Luvfa : This benefits the consumer!
103 Flightopsguy : DEN's biggest winter problems are closure of Pena Blvd, de-icing then long taxi to the runway, 737 engine blade icing (requires extra procedures), and
104 Luvfa : I'm so excited we are FINALLY serving DEN. I feel this expansion has probably been in the works for some time with SWA's brass. The code-share with AT
105 Brons2 : I scrolled through all possible Denver originating combinations on WN's website and only came up with these as future service: Published scheduled ser
106 RL757PVD : My picks PHX 3-4 LAS 3-4 MDW 3-4 BWI 1 BNA 1
107 Klkla : I think Southwest's strategy is aimed squarely at removing Frontier from the competitive landsacape. IIRC Frontier has not been profitable for a while
108 UA744Flagship : Because, unfortunately, United has a track record for rolling over to heavy competition. Other than Ted (and Shuttle by United in its initial years),
109 N1120A : Why is everyone focused on BNA? LAX-DEN is a shorter flight and a much larger market. Also, why does anyone thing that a Texas market will not be inv
110 PVD757 : OK, I'll take a stab at it to: If ATA is withdrawn from the PHX & MDW markets: MCI 1 MDW 3 HOU 1 LAS 1 PHX 2 OAK 1 BWI 2 If ATA stays on the MDW/PHX m
111 BA : Wow, as a Denver resident who previously was a Colorado Springs resident, I did not expect this coming at all. This is a big blow to COS in my opinion
112 Burnsie28 : PHX- Im guessing not, but who knows, they go head to head with their partner ATA? MDW- Again ATA?
113 SHUPirate1 : Will United suddenly launch Ted on the routes that Southwest starts? That's what I will be interested to see...
114 King : Frontier is holding an employee town hall this afternoon to answer questions and talk about strategy. F9 is circling the wagons right now. They were a
115 Mariner : I am surprised that no one has mentioned ATA. MDW/DEN/PHX may not be ATA's last profitable scheduled route, but it is up there. Note also that United
116 King : I agree Mariner. I'm surprised it took you this long to jump in.
117 Gigneil : I have never been on an F9 flight that wasn't packed. N
118 King : We'll never know how Ted truly performs since UA doesn't report these numbers separately.
119 DAYflyer : Yes, 1 & 2 are overdue for an overhaul. I smell a TED expansion coming to an airport near you very soon.
120 Post contains images Mariner : I just woke up! It's early morning here. cheers mariner
121 DLKAPA : In Denver. Unless you call it Great Mistakes they have very little customer base outside the metro 6 in Colorado. DEN-PHX is doing good for UA (Ted),
122 DIA77 : Possibly, but where could TED expand that would effectively counter WN's entry into the Denver market? I suspect that WN will serve LAS, ABQ, SLC and
123 Incitatus : Surprising move. Given recent events Southwest should have lobbied Congress to get Stapleton rebuilt for itself instead of going to the new Denver. F
124 Mariner : It isn't a question of what the "common citizen" thinks - it is how the airlines book those citizens. Prior to the Southwest code share, there was di
125 RedFlyer : You think they would serve ABQ and RNO before they would serve LAX and OAK?
126 DLKAPA : Far better idea: Have them build pax infrastructure at APA. Kool Aide tasting good today? Oh I'm sure passengers were incited be the idea that they c
127 MSYtristar : F9 will not lose all of its DEN market share overnight, but you better believe yields will be greatly depressed on the routes which WN flies to from D
128 Stirling : I think PHLBOS may have confused the "Second-Time" as being when the market was served by Morris Air; but not continued as a Southwest destination po
129 Post contains images N1120A : Riiiight, forego an airport that has significantly lowered its costs and delays through the region for rebuilding a demolished airport that was alway
130 Aa757first : I was thinking that myself, and was suprised when no one mentioned it earlier. Why do you think jetBlue would want Frontier? AAndrew
131 King : It will fill in their route map. Their aircraft are compatible. F9 purchases DirectTV from B6. Instant access to all those cities (7 Mexican recort d
132 Mariner : Certainly, that is true. My point is only that Frontier and United have had to compete with effective WN management on that route for six months. Or
133 N1120A : The rumor has been around for a while, because they have relative common fleets (LiveTV, same pilot rating, different engines though) and a similar c
134 Isitsafenow : Frontier Airlines stock took a hit on the news. They opened at 10.76 and is now at 7.78. Our friend Herb sure keeps the competition on aspirin and Jac
135 King : I think mergers and takeovers rarely work, but I do think there are opportunities for some LCC's to work closer together with codeshares. I'd love to
136 FA4B6 : It'd be great to see us codeshare a la WN/TZ. They could upgrade their IFE to what JetBlue has, make it all free, and voila. I think it would be fant
137 Socalfive : Well, they're plugging some badly needed holes in their system, that's for certain. But, the business model is just fine with the 737s on the point t
138 Post contains images Mariner : They have very similar IFE. LiveTV and DirectTV with first run movies - and their own Frontier channel. Yeh, maybe. I think it would be the death of
139 Wjcandee : Right. It's better.
140 Navairjax : Hmm first RSW, now DEN, any bets on which TZ codeshare city WN will go to next?
141 Stirling : In Nature that would be what is called "Survival of the Fittest".
142 N1120A : Well, he is on Cigarettes and Wild Turkey, so perhaps they should follow along?? (yuck) WN's take over of Morris Air seemed to work well for all invo
143 Brons2 : Just found this in my email from American, clearly any effect on Texas-DEN traffic has not gone unnoticed by AA. My guess is WN will fly to HOU from D
144 Stirling : Sarcasm isn't lost. Houses and Commercial development now occupy much of the former site of Staple-town.
145 FA4B6 : What I meant was more channels, 3 pay per view movies, and 110+ channels of XM radio. I meant as in a codeshare sort of way, not B6 buying F9.
146 Sunking737 : I hear WN knocking on MSP's door. They will be in MSP before the end of 2006. If they do it could be the end of things as we know it in MSP.
147 Post contains images OPNLguy : I must admit that DEN was complete surprise to me, as I had expected CLT or maybe MSP. I expect someone will erroneously conclude or otherwise float t
148 DLKAPA : I hear they're looking for some space out on Smith Road.
149 VSLover : i dont know if it is a direct result of WN, but i'm assuming it is, but i just got an email from AA promoting this deal where you earn an increasing n
150 Ntspelich : Too bad I can't get my hands on some of what you've been smoking. NTS
151 Post contains images Brons2 : You're about 6 posts too slow on that one
152 SonOfACaptain : What are DEN costs compared to...oh say DFW? -SOAC
153 Luv2fly : And this has what to do with the subject at hand?
154 SonOfACaptain : Don't worry, I am not attacking your precious WN. I am just wondering what the costs are for DEN, and if they are comparable to DFW. -SOAC
155 Post contains images OPNLguy : I reckon he's hoping to somehow link it to SWA's decision not to serve DFW due to their costs....
156 Hillbilliescot : A big blow? This is the death nail for COS. With rumors of NW pulling out and then this, I dont see how the airport can survive. I work at the COS ai
157 Post contains images Luv2fly : They already serve the Dallas Fort Worth area last I looked. And trust me when are you not out to attack precious WN, when ever you get the chance if
158 Post contains images Iowaman : MSP please Anyone know the gate situation at MSP? I know the Lindbergh has none open but the Humphrey might have a couple open? I know they have room
159 SonOfACaptain : Maybe, but right now I am just curious to see the facts. -SOAC
160 PHLBOS : No, I wasn't thinking at all of Morris Air (good guess though); I just inadvertently misinterpreted the years 1983 & 1986 as 'start' dates rather tha
161 Post contains images SonOfACaptain : Riiiiight. That also has nothing to do with anything. First of all, that doesn't even make sense. Second of all, that is just plain stupid. Oh wait,
162 AZFLYER84 : yet another airline on the PHX-DEN route HP/US about 11 flights UA(TED) 6 flights ATA 2 flights and now WN most likely about 8-10 flights
163 Dadoftyler : Lost me there....how'd you get food poisoning, and what does it have to do with anything (other than being VERY unpleasant, trust me, I know!)? If it
164 Swadispatcher : I have a feeling that the two schedules will complement each other nicely between MDW-DEN. That's how our MDW-RSW service is set up.. Also, with only
165 Post contains images SonOfACaptain : Lol, I forgive you. -SOAC
166 VSLover : oops! well i just got ANOTHER AA email for flights to CA/OR/WA this is too funny now! From now through February 15, 2006, you could earn thousands of
167 Mariner : Sorry, I don't buy it. If Southwest serves both PHX and MDW from DEN what is the point - to Southwest - of ATA? Unless SW doesn't have enough aircraf
168 DIA77 : Don't forget F9's 6 daily flights.
169 Kahala777 : Actually, the clientele Southwest Airlines will be going after the most is Frontier, and TED. Mainline United Airlines should not be to affected by S
170 MAH4546 : On what planet? DEN has the single highest operating costs of any US airport, higher than both MIA and SEA.
171 Kahala777 : It is very possible due to the operational costs, that Denver may very well be the smallest station in the Southwest system. It is possible to operat
172 MAH4546 : No, it is not very possible. DEN is going to be a lot busier than PBI, CRP, HRL, and other small WN stations.
173 Paddy78 : You're not kidding...wow...I didn't see this one coming in a million years. Never thought SWA would jump right into a large-airport market that was h
174 IslipWN : My guesses- LAS BWI MDW BNA ISP PHX SEA MCO Joe
175 Brons2 : Maybe they made a deal with WN, they seem to be alluding to it in the press release that operating costs have declined.
176 King : Frontier's CEO spoke of this today. WN received no deals. They are looking at 2 gates on concourse C.
177 Longhornmaniac : What about Texas? Surely in the first two tiers of adding service one of HOU, AUS, ELP would be considered.
178 BA : Wow, I don't know what to say... Are there really rumors that NW is pulling out of COS? That would be really ashame. I remember about two years ago,
179 Iowaman : Haha, even though I'm a WN supporter, WN needs to stop bitching about SEA then. Then again, there is no real other option out of DEN.. LAS- Very poss
180 OPNLguy : Since King County execs said "no" to BFI a couple of weeks ago, what is it that leads you to conclude that WN is still "bitching" about it?
181 Post contains images MD90fan : My guesses: LAS, PHX, TPA/MCO, LAX, PHL, MDW and maybe HOU or OAK
182 Klkla : Well, let's see. Frontier stock fell 28% percent today based on the news. From an article today on TheStreet.com: "The freefall in Frontier Airlines'
183 Paddy78 : The rumors were flying pretty thick last weekend and we all know how those can be...but with NW's track record of attacking LCC threats, I don't find
184 Post contains images AndrewUber : I wonder when we'll see "Colorado One" rolled out... Drew
185 IslipWN : I hope they start ISP-DEN!!!!! Joe
186 LV : Lets see, TZ pulls out of DEN, WN comes in.... TZ pulls out of MSP....hmmmmm.
187 Mariner : In FY 04? I am not aware of any government aid in FY 04. Have I forgotten something? I am aware that Frontier paid back in full the $70 million loan
188 King : Well stated Mariner. The stock dropped today because two investors lowered FRNT's rating from buy to sell. It was an obvious over reaction on their pa
189 Iowaman : Well, they still say SEA fees are too high. I'll admit "Bitching" was a little overboard. Let's hope that's true about MSP... maybe relief from the r
190 Mariner : In the case of the Merrill Lynch analyst, it was a bizarre over-reaction, because it flatly contradicted what CEO Kelly of Southwest said. Here is pa
191 Post contains images STT757 : It's Chicago or Houston Well my feeling is that WN will start off serving "the hubs" (the WN verison of a airline hub) PHX, MDW, LAS, HOU, BWI After
192 King : That sounds like 10-12 flights a day. With only 2 possible gates open on terminal C they will not be able to grow much.
193 Milemaster : Agreed. Time to put a nice buy order in F9.
194 DLKAPA : Can't even compare the 2. Dallas has 2 viable airports, DAL and DFW. There is only one airport that serves the DENVER (Re: Not "Front Range" which wo
195 SPREE34 : So go to the DEN and DFW web sites and do some searching. There are other sources as well. Really? Total operating cost for the user? Landing fees al
196 Iowaman : The only way I see they compete with WN at all is through the ATA codeshare, which isn't even 50 cities, let alone 500. In fact, there are zero citie
197 F9fan : As someone just stated, there is only one open gate on concourse C at this time. However, HP and US could combine their gates, or DL can sell one of t
198 King : I was just quoting a F9 executive who stated the following today: "That being said, from a management standpoint, we too have been preparing ourselve
199 Wjcandee : When exactly did TZ "pull out of DEN"??
200 Swadispatcher : They did ??? Hmmmmm.. how'd I miss that?
201 Douwd20 : You're right about that. From the Wall Street Journal: Raymond James analyst Jim Parker downgraded Frontier Airlines, citing Southwest's lower costs
202 Iowaman : connecting markets is totally different. That makes a lot more sense.
203 King : No airline can compete, huh? Well, I guess all of the airlines should fold up tomorrow.
204 Post contains links and images Mariner : From the airline's websites, for the quarter ended 30 June 2005: http://www.frontierairlines.com/news...cle=/general/2005/pr_07282005.news http://phx
205 Douwd20 : Also from the WSJ: The move underscores Southwest's capacity to grow when rivals are shrinking
206 Stirling : Alright Chicken Little...the sky is not falling. Three problems with that scenario. 1) I-25 between COS and DEN is already at design capacity or grea
207 Carpethead : WN is coming to DEN, but if they can't get a hold of a dozen of gates that means not many flights. WN can't do 50 flights a day, if they only have one
208 Aloha717200 : I havent read all 200 replies, but... I'm surprised to see this, but very glad. People said hell would feeze over before WN came back to DEN. I'm glad
209 Kohflot : How bout some crazy speculation? Southwest announces they're starting DEN. Frontier stock tanks. Southwest buys Frontier. Southwest takes Frontier's A
210 Aaway : Yes, while the yield derived from carrying those additional passengers decreases. Of course, with system LFs in the 75 to 80 percentile range on aver
211 SHUPirate1 : Just for what it's worth, UA's schedule out of DEN to Southwest's cities, from October 21, 2005: ABQ: 4x 733, 1x CR7, 4x CRJ AUS: 1x 319, 2x CR7, 1x C
212 Post contains images OPNLguy : You're about 200 posts too late...
213 Post contains links Swadispatcher : FYI, for those interested, I did research on this tonight.. from the airports' websites: DEN $3.397 / 1000 lbs landing weight (pg 2 of file) --------
214 Paddy78 : Ok, you didn't see the sarcasm either. Nobody would spend $10 bucks to save $50. Let me lay the point out for you; the cost differential between flyi
215 AirWillie6475 : Thank you Southwest, now I will finally be able to fly cheaper with Frontier and United, thank you thank you thankyou.
216 UAXDXer : Have you ever watched "Airline"? I hope you enjoy the $10 in savings!
217 Post contains images DLKAPA : Ironically enough the accident always happens on Monument hill Actually, I just got a call from my great great great granfather and he's getting migh
218 Vegasplanes : Ah Yes, the true breakfast of champions. The cigs and turkey that is. Any ideas as to if WN will eventually start some service to the Vails, Breckenr
219 King : Reality has set in and FRNT stock is climbing back up - Oct 21, 2005 (streetinsider.com via COMTEX) -- JP Morgan upgrades Frontier Airlines (Nasdaq: F
220 Goingboeing : You do realize you just slammed someone who said they'd fly YOUR airline????
221 Apodino : At the time the airport opened that was true, but there are now a couple of airports that can do triple simaltaneous. MCO Opened 17L-35R a year or tw
222 BHMNONREV : What about 13R and 31R? Would that not allow for FOUR simultaneous IFR approaches, three from the north/south and one from the southeast/northwest??
223 UAcosCS : Ual uses gates 9,11,12 in COS, there is a new terminal in COS with 4 or 5 gates. We dont just have Nine.
224 Post contains images UAcosCS : Do you think all the airlines in COS are going to raise or lower fares? UAL has a grip on the whole state of CO, they will compete with WN, they will
225 William : The funny thing is the if you were to state SWA was going to DIA last week,you would have been shot down with the same diatribe, Airport too big,long
226 Lono : Yes I remember when I was working there that DFW was touting the fact that they were the worlds only quad airport... and that DEN could only do 3....
227 Jmy007 : As a front range resident, and some one who works in the ski/travel industry in Colorado, the news of Southwest coming into to Denver comes with surpr
228 Apodino : Yes. But I am talking about simaltaneous to parallel runways. The 13-31's aren't parallel to the other runways.
229 Post contains images Stirling : My frame of reference for comparison goes back to being stationed at Lowry AFB way back in 1983, in those days it took me EXACTLY 1 hour 55 minutes t
230 Dadoftyler : Jmy007, We'll miss you. But for you, and everyone else...get ready for lower fares--yes, lower than you've been paying, especially for walk-up. It wo
231 Post contains images BA : I'd love to see DEN-SNA. That way I can visit my cousin and relatives with dirt cheap fares. I doubt it'll happen though due to the restrictions at SN
232 OOer : How much cheaper can fares go? Fares are already dirt cheap doe to 9/11. All airlines are barely hanging on because of high fuel prices and lower fare
233 FCYTravis : Quality when flying? I don't ever remember an time in the past 25 years when there was a "quality" to Y-class domestic flying. If you want to blame so
234 Blhp68 : Do you guys really think that SWA will serve DEN-MCI, whether it be in the first or second round of cities? I mean we are talking about a market that
235 Quickmover : Lots of service on DEN-MCI, but from experience flying this route alot, very full flights and high fares for a 540 mile trip. Usually $300 up.
236 Post contains links King : Coincidence that F9 is beefing up service to some big WN markets? Here's the press release from today: Frontier Airlines Expands Service to Five Top M
237 JC5280 : WN has told airport tenants it has secured use of the gates next to US Airways at C43. Its ticket counter will be directly eat of UA, on the South-Ea
238 StuckinMAF : OK, I've been lurking around these forums for 3 or 4 years now (can't even remember), reading all the remarkably insightful and occasionally dumb post
239 BTCCMan : Two things that DIA is not at all short of is turbulent air off the Front Range... and space - it is the largest airport by land area in the world!
240 Post contains links USAFHummer : WN DEN Schedule (by SWACLE Oct 26 2005 in Civil Aviation) This thread shows that its probably MDW, LAS, and PHX nonstops at first, with one stop direc
241 ATA767 : F9 also announced DEN-MDW and DEN-PHX.. This makes it harder for ATA but does not mean it will be the end of their presence in DEN. They may just cut
242 BA : Nope, that would be Riyadh King Khalid Int'l (RUH) in Saudi Arabia, then Denver Int'l. I am not quite sure, but Dammam King Fahd Int'l (DMM) which op
243 Wjcandee : I enjoyed your evenhanded analysis. I like Opnlguy's posts as well. Thanks for contributing and I hope we see you on here more. Best, Bill
244 Post contains images OPNLguy : Thanks gents; I've been taking a breather on this one...
245 Post contains images Jacobin777 : StuckinMAF........welcome to A.net..
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