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Boston Logan's International Push  
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4826 times:

Two weeks ago, I started a topic about DFW trying to lure a few international carriers, now is Boston's turn. Boston Logan's management is seeking more international flights. Hong Kong and Beijing are mentioned.

http://www.airportbusiness.com/artic.../article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3985

59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4803 times:

Awesome, lets hope that BOS gets some of these flights, just what i'd love to see!

But another question, can Term E handle all these possible new flights?



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4793 times:

You know, I'll bet they'd have more luck getting international flights if they didn't make things impossible for their three largest carriers.  Yeah sure


I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4791 times:

I think BOS will have better luck with Europe and Latin America than Asia. Is there an airline that is willing to give it a go? (BOS-HKG, NRT or PEK) I don't think so...

User currently offlineFewsolarge From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4745 times:

BOS-HKG? Dream on. What about BOS-SYD?

User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2915 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4680 times:

Probably the most likely in the next year or so would be AA to GLA, BRU and MAD with 757's.

DL hasn't shown much interest in expanding international BOS - even Mexico (too lazy to look it up to confirm this). B6 will probably add some flights to the Caribbean, maybe Cancun (or what's left of it after Wilma). US the same. But in terms of transoceanic service, Europe for now. Asia maybe within 10 years - NRT or China depending on bilaterals/slots etc.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4626 times:

NEVEERRRR gonna happen - until BOS gets it's act together and put FIS into at the very least terminal A and/or B, BOS is stuck with the international flights it's got. Terminal E arrivals can't cope with the afternoon arrivals as it is, no matter how much they say it's been "refurbished". BOS just isn't up to standard as an international gateway.

User currently offlineYoungFlyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4589 times:

More int. flights from BOS would be great. However, as stated above I'm not sure if there is much room left in terminal E. Terminal A, DL new terminal, has a lot of room left in it but I do not see them sharing their new terminal at all.
Hope it would happen though,
Dan



"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind" -Gandhi
User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4529 times:

The only way Boston will see more international flights is if CBP is installed in another Terminal (Particularly B since AA seems to be the only carrier serious about starting international services) or if the flights are timed outside peak times (arrivals before 13h00 or after 20h00 and departures before 15h00 or after 20h00), otherwise there's no room at Terminal E. Supposedly they have their planned West concourse, but whether that ever comes to fruition is anyone's guess with Massport.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4086 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4508 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 2):
You know, I'll bet they'd have more luck getting international flights if they didn't make things impossible for their three largest carriers.

Two words:
GOOD
POINT


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4415 times:

Hell with that, put the internationals at MHT. It's a nicer airport anyways.
*Dons flameproof suit*


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8232 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4337 times:

Terminal E is mostly empty except for a couple of hours in late afternoon. What are you guys talking about Terminal E not being able to handle more traffic. Asia traffic would not use the same time slots are trans-atlantic flights so there's plenty of space at Terminal E for it.

User currently offlineDeltaGuy767 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 660 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4348 times:

Quoting LH423 (Reply 8):
The only way Boston will see more international flights is if CBP is installed in another Terminal (Particularly B since AA seems to be the only carrier serious about starting international services

Not so fast, DL has a nice big new terminal that I'm sure could warrant International service on widebody jets nudge nudge. Now as I have been preaching, Massport won't allow this because they fu@#$% up building BOS as they made five terminals where one is completely empty. By that I mean the dump that houses Airtran, which is Terminal D. Now if Massport was run by someone who was actually intelligent, then they would combine D+E making a larger D to house the International carriers and Airtran. Then they would put INS/Customs in Terminals A and B because AA and DL are the only US carriers who are serious about Intl service at BOS. In the process they would move AC from Terminal C and put them in Terminal B or the new D as they are the only International carrier outside of Terminal E. I believe that AA and DL will not tolerate having to waste expensive fuel to taxi over to Term E to drop everybody off and then having to taxi back to their own terminals. If BOS wants to see more International service, then I believe that this is the only viable solution. But this won't be done as we have idiots who are cronies of Tom Fineran (speaker of house in MA) running Massport and have their heads up their  butthead .

From BDL,  wave 
DeltaGuy767



A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2915 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4324 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 12):
DL are the only US carriers who are serious about Intl service at BOS

Aside from Canada, what international destinations does DL serve from BOS?


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6585 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4297 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 13):
Aside from Canada, what international destinations does DL serve from BOS?

Bermuda and Nassau (starts in December, Saturday only).

DL has also applied to the DOT to start BOS-CUN.

DL briefly flew BOS-LGW. They've also announced BOS-FCO, but then never flew it. DL also came very close to announcing BOS-CDG before 9/11.


User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4294 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 12):
Not so fast, DL has a nice big new terminal that I'm sure could warrant International service on widebody jets nudge nudge.

Absolutely, if DL want to start international flights, but given the fact that they're not really expanding their domestic service besides some Song flights and a token flight to Nassau (which B6 will probably nudge them out of anyway with their flights) and adding some RJs (but also cancelled quite a few as well). I just don't think DL is serious about Boston anymore. Though, bringing back more 767s is a nice touch  Smile They built this nice terminal but just don't have the money to properly utilize it.

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 12):
In the process they would move AC from Terminal C and put them in Terminal B or the new D as they are the only International carrier outside of Terminal E

Why move AC? Aside from YHZ, all of their flights have pre-clearance in Canada (and YHZ will be getting pre-clearance soon) and, for all intents and purposes, operate like domestic flights. If anything, move them to A...there's plenty of room there  Wink

As for your idea of combining Terminals D and E, well Massport sees it differently and will in the future be redesignating the terminals so that Terminal D becomes part of Terminal C and Terminal E will become Terminal D.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4273 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 10):
Hell with that, put the internationals at MHT. It's a nicer airport anyways.
*Dons flameproof suit*

I thought they already had Customs at MHT/PVD. With the 4X Toronto/Mortreal service, i'd thought they'd have it aalready. Or do they clear customs in Canada for entry into the US?


User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4241 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 11):
Terminal E is mostly empty except for a couple of hours in late afternoon. What are you guys talking about Terminal E not being able to handle more traffic. Asia traffic would not use the same time slots are trans-atlantic flights so there's plenty of space at Terminal E for it.

Actually... any planes departing to Asia will leave in the afternoon around 7-8pm and arrive in Asia in the morning (7am arrival, depending on where you are). That would coincide with the later part of the Europe rush...

I'm not sure if it will work out, and any Asian flight is going to be hard to justify... maybe to NRT? Dunno


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4231 times:

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 17):
I'm not sure if it will work out, and any Asian flight is going to be hard to justify... maybe to NRT? Dunno

Agree. AA to NRT is the only possible escenario when it comes to Asia.


User currently offlineDeltaGuy767 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 660 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4231 times:

Quoting LH423 (Reply 15):
Why move AC? Aside from YHZ, all of their flights have pre-clearance in Canada (and YHZ will be getting pre-clearance soon) and, for all intents and purposes, operate like domestic flights. If anything, move them to A...there's plenty of room there

Good point, I however didn't know that the AC flights had pre-clearance so I was thinking that they would have to stop by Term. E for Customs/INS. But seeing as that they don't have to that it makes sense that they are in C. As for DL expanding Int'l from BOS, I think that soon they will do that, but not right now as they have serious problems to deal with. Once they get the fleet and $$$ straightened out then they will possibly expand at BOS.
Just my thoughts,

From BDL,
DeltaGuy767



A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4190 times:

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 16):

I thought they already had Customs at MHT/PVD. With the 4X Toronto/Mortreal service, i'd thought they'd have it aalready. Or do they clear customs in Canada for entry into the US?

I believe they have a far-off int'l arrivals "shed" at MHT, from what I've heard here. My flights into MHT were all from either PIT, PHL, LGA, or DCA. (Guess what airline I was flying solely back then  Wink) I've heard a few people complaining about the int'l arrivals facility at MHT, something about it being over towards the FBO for GA or something. They might just be pre-screening though, it is Toronto only. I was meaning the HKG flights should go to MHT. I'm sure ChrisNH wouldn't mind a 777 or something.


User currently offlineZrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3130 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4163 times:

Once upon a time, BOS was the second largest transatlantic gateway (after JFK). But that was over 25 years ago.

Anyone remember when D was the international terminal?



14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8232 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4140 times:

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 17):
Actually... any planes departing to Asia will leave in the afternoon around 7-8pm

From JFK/EWR/ORD, most flights leave well after that. Cathay's non-stop to HKG leaves after 11pm and so does SQ non-stop to SIN. Asiana's flight from ORD to Seoul leaves at 1am. These are just a few I know. So from BOS most flights would probably leave no sooner that 9pm when terminal E is completely empty.

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 12):
Now if Massport was run by someone who was actually intelligent, then they would combine D+E making a larger D to house the International carriers and Airtran.

And who pays for it? Talk is cheap but if you actually used BOS just 10 years ago you wouldn't be so fast to dismiss massport. The airport today is tremendously better than the dump we had just 10 years ago. And they did it all without tax-payer's money. Now that's something.


User currently onlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4037 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4134 times:

The problem with MHT is that it is not nearly as busy as BOS. Sounds nice, but it's a problem when it comes to connecting pax from international routes. BOS is a major airport, MHT is not. More carriers fly to BOS with much higher frequency of flights and larger aircraft, flying to more diverse destinations.

If int'l flights came into MHT we would merely be seeing an extra connection in the flight plans of the pax.


User currently offlineGift4tbone From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4126 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 10):
Hell with that, put the internationals at MHT. It's a nicer airport anyways.

MHT? Nah, lol, its a nice airport and all, but PVD is bigger nicer, and has better customs facilities. They already have a weekend charted to the azores. If the Nimby's relax a little, we might be able to get that RWY extention, and allow some 777s in here. That'd be the day. In 20 years the terminal will be almost twice its size, and the metropolitian area continues to grow. (RI is 2nd most populated state by square mile-NJ #1), And with the boston T commuter rail expanding to PVD, PVD seems like the likely choice for the new intl gateway to NE.

-Tony@PVD



Top 3 airports: PVD 26.0%(115 flights), PHL 15.6%(69 flights), PHX 12.0%(53 flights)
25 Tornado82 : I wasn't extremely serious about the MHT thing. Besides, that place is a bit crowded to begin wtih.
26 Post contains images DeltaGuy767 : Hey Tony, Not to be too quick to judge, but I just flew into PVD recently and it seems to me that there isn't much room for expansion. For a 777 you
27 Navairjax : With the exception of "Terminal" D. Which is the only piece of the airport to not have gone through significant changes.
28 Georgiabill : I believe Iberia has had discussions to return to BOS however as of yet nothing definitive. My hopes would be NS to Tokyo. Korean tried and failed so
29 BigGSFO : AA actually started to promote and book seats for BOS-NRT but never launched the flight. The plug was pulled due to the dot.com bust I believe. It's
30 Post contains images Nethkt : I couldn't beleive that BOS has no direct flights from Asia. With a high number of Asian students at Hardvard, MIT and other schools there, airlines c
31 Zrs70 : While the traffic is there, the fares the students pay aren't the high end that the airlines are looking for. Now, that said, I do believe there is a
32 Tornado82 : As has been said 100's of times on here, many by me, colleges don't suffice for air travel. Because other than Spring Break, Thanksgiving, Christmas,
33 BigGSFO : I agree 100% with Tornado82. A 777 BOS-NRT flight would be offered with the high yield crowd in mind. Give it some time. Five or six years perhaps. On
34 Airbazar : Well, I think MHT could at the very least support a daily non-stop to LHR. For the most part yes, but Boston college students are not your average st
35 JCarv : Not sure why people blame Massport for all the International flights being at Terminal E. CBP/INS wanted all international flights at Terminal E after
36 RL757PVD : BOS will be the primary New England gateway for many years to come despite their problems. These problems will however, limit service form full potent
37 Post contains images DeltaGuy767 : If you were to look at a terminal map of BOS, you would think otherwise. From BDL DeltaGuy767
38 Bospmv : A few years back, UA was showing on thier website new routes they were planning to inroduce, BOS- NRT, BOS-FRA were two of the new routes they were go
39 ChrisNH : Although I'm a MHT advocate, you won't find me making silly projections about international service here. MHT is what it is. The long-range plan, when
40 Airbazar : You once said that Southern NH has a population with some of the most spare income in the country. I agree with you there. Southern NH and Boston Met
41 Post contains images Tornado82 : Except at that damned tollbooth going to Nashua. How far are the nearest big-ticket ski resorts to MHT? Not too far north and northwest I assume?? I
42 RL757PVD : There are alot of airports that could technically support a London flight, but why should an airline at BOS pay to open up a second station at MHT, w
43 MAH4546 : It is only one weekly flight during the summer, but SATA/Air Azores PVD-PDL flights are scheduled, not charter.
44 RL757PVD : Yea... i shoudl have specified year-round/ daily service...though these cities could have it daily summer only to start.... Use the planes to Europe i
45 Post contains images Airbazar : If there's enough demand, and the cost is right, why not? If you employ that way of thinking, why have MHT and PVD at all? Everyone can just drive to
46 ChrisNH : Also, there is something to be said for clearing customs and immigration when you're the only load of passengers doing so...versus waiting in a whole
47 RL757PVD : Domestic and International are two totally different beasts. 90% of the people you are counting on to fill the MHT flight are are within a reasonanbl
48 PHLBOS : While D may have been considered part of the International Terminal at one time, the entire International Terminal complex was never, I repeat, never
49 Post contains images ChrisNH : Ooooo...be careful about saying stuff like that. Unless you want people laughing about how Southwest started flights from PVD to Islip and yanked the
50 Zrs70 : Thank you for the clarification on this! I have an old Logal Airport Paper (I think it's called the Air Travel Journal) from the 80's which showcases
51 PHLBOS : Now that I think about it; B, when it opened, was probably referred to as the "New Terminal". ChrisNH, You must've hit a wrong key or overscrolled or
52 RL757PVD : Were talking almost 5 years ago for those!....time to move on Lets face it MHT is not having the best if times night now, nor is PVD, and BDL who is
53 Post contains images DeltaGuy767 : BDL was always able to sustain almost full loads on every aircraft that I flew on DL from BDL-ATL/CVG. The only reason why DL dropped capacity on the
54 RL757PVD : Couple of issues here: # 1 issue loads no NOT = Profit by downsizing the aircraft from a 763 to an MD88 they are applying upward pressure on the yeil
55 Post contains images BOS2LAF : Damn straight I live that distance between the 2 cities, and MHT has a few things going for it: Cheaper Parking Cheaper tolls. Last time I flew out o
56 RL757PVD : That goes without saying...the context for that reply was discussing the short term. Long term 2020 i think we'll see MHT at around 9 million PVD aro
57 2travel2know : I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future CM or AV would fly to BOS (or PVD).
58 Gigneil : I don't agree. NW and UA are the only two that could make BOS work with a Tokyo nonstop. They'd need to feed the flight at their NRT hubs. United had
59 Lrgt : Why all the discussions about not having enough space??? At most Boston will see a NRT flight. Let alone the fact that the E terminal will most likely
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