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TAM To Drop Business On GRU-EZE And GRU-SCL  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Posted (8 years 11 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3808 times:
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TAM will configure all A320 fleet for full economy (168 seats). Because of that Business Class will be not more oferred to EZE and SCL.

Up to this date TAM keep 5 A320 with C+Y configuration (PT-MZN, PT-MZO, PT-MZP, PT-MZR and PT-MZS).

Change will take place during the first 15 days of november and if you check on TAM site, it's not available on Nov, 1st.

Varig has drop recently Business Class for Domestic routes, but keep with it on several South America Flights.


Felipe


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

Hi Felipe, interesting news. I find this rather odd. Doesn't JJ need the margins from business fares?


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3744 times:

Lipe: again, tks for the breaking news.

I also dont like this new configuration. I'm sure many biz pax (high yielding pax, .e.g full fare Y who count on a possible upgrade) will migrate to other airlines.

What's the reason behind this decision? Probably because they also want to use the same equipment for domestic flights, ore maybe we could see an upgrade to A330 on EZE and SCL?

In my view, not good development...

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3701 times:
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Quoting EddieDude (Reply 1):
Doesn't JJ need the margins from business fares?

Hi Eddie, como vai ?

I believe they need but i also can say that Business fares from Brazil to both EZE and SCL are extremelly high! TAM Biz fare to SCL is "only" about US$ 1.600,00 and to EZE about US$ 900,00. Gol has produced a major drop on ticket prices (less than US$ 200,00 for a Y ticket).

Also, TAM business for EZE and SCL is not so good as AR (on A340) and RG (on B777) as well as LAN product. I see TAM with high loads on Y, and C become a mainly used by Frequent Flyers (you need 30,000 points to fly GRU-SCL on Biz, and 20,000 to fly South America routes on Y).

Bad to TAM because they connect some High Yield MIA and CDG pax from both EZE and GIG using the business seats, something they could not offer any more. It will be better to connect thru RG, AR or LA.

Bad move from Tam in my opinion but seems they do not produce good profit on business.


Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 2):
What's the reason behind this decision? Probably because they also want to use the same equipment for domestic flights, ore maybe we could see an upgrade to A330 on EZE and SCL?

Hardi, i don't believe on this because they use the A332 in some domestic routes, never with two classes of service (they use to put top customers on Biz and First Class seats). Also, Tam will run some flights to FOR and REC during the summer, they do not have availability of A330 planes to do EZE or even SCL during the day.

If they decide to use the A332 Hardi, IMO, they probably improve the plane but never stop the service (even the few customers they keep, they will loose). Don't you agree ?

2 used on MIA - Used during all the day
4 used on CDG - Used to GRU-REC (1) and GRU-FOR-NAT-GRU (1) , Two on Ground at CDG
1 to be used on JFK - Parked 3 days per week at JFK, 3 days at GRU

For a company proud of their service, this is a little downgrade IMO.

I will post a Trip Report with a Business Class GIG-GRU and GRU-GIG flights on TAM. Probably it was my last trip on Buz GIG-GRU-GIG.

Regards
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2407 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3630 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 2):
also dont like this new configuration. I'm sure many biz pax (high yielding pax, .e.g full fare Y who count on a possible upgrade) will migrate to other airlines.

Or they just never flew TAM.... for me it's a sign that TAM is not becoming a very well player in these markets, now they dowgraded themselfes to a limited product.



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3553 times:
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Quoting Arcano (Reply 4):
Or they just never flew TAM.... for me it's a sign that TAM is not becoming a very well player in these markets, now they dowgraded themselfes to a limited product.

Could be Arcano. But i believe IMO, that:


  • TAM never was strong on SCL route, i can say this otherwise they would upgrade SCL to 2x Daily (their desire a year ago).
  • TAM start to need their A320 Biz configured fleet on D Check, it will need to configure another aircrafts for using (up to 3 months ago they keep 1 available, but with the new frequency to EZE - 4 from GRU e 1 from BSB/POA - all the fleet is in use)
  • GOL & VARIG: Gol start GRU-EZE with very low fares and full Y plane (now a 737-800), while Varig keep with a better plane (777-200 from GRU) and a strong customer base. Same for LAN on SCL route.
  • The announce of new services EZE-US, could warn Tam that some Biz customers from EZE (that connect to MIA) could in the future use AR, LAN Argentina and CO services.
  • Higher demand for Y. Tam in all routes (including MIA and CDG) could sell all the plane as Y, giving UPGD for Red Fidelity Frequent Flyers. Probably for EZE and SCL it's much more usual.

    It´s bad for their reputation as a top class airline. I imagine it would be better to classify the business as a Top Economy Class, selling for a more reasonable price (US$ 1,600 for a GIG-SCL round trip is too much in my opinion)

    Another info: They will start MAO-CCS using a F100, also full Y.

    Regards
    Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3527 times:

I reckon this will be the end of the KL/JJ codeshare on GRU-EZE and GRU-SCL.

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3513 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 6):
I reckon this will be the end of the KL/JJ codeshare on GRU-EZE and GRU-SCL.

I am sure the codeshare will continue. The main benficiary of the codeshare is KL. JJ does not need KL on the codeshared routes [on average only about 15 pax transit from KL - GRU to JJ - EZE/SCL/GIG].

Rgs,


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 3450 times:
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Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 7):
I am sure the codeshare will continue. The main benficiary of the codeshare is KL. JJ does not need KL on the codeshared routes [on average only about 15 pax transit from KL - GRU to JJ - EZE/SCL/GIG].

Hardi but they should lost the Business Customers to Varig. Varig also offer an agreement with KLM.

A huge detail: last wednesday, Tam flight GRU-GIG does not wait for the KLM flight (delayed 1h), we start push-back at same time the 772 from KLM dock the gate. Seems relationship TAM with KLM and AF is not so strong.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 3438 times:

I too believe now that TAM is not doing good with Biz in EZE/SCL routes.

An airline based strongly on "profit in first place" would not get rid of their Biz class if they were happy with it. Simple as that!

I have noticed some time ago that TAM relies clumsily in low yielding pax to EZE, who they get, by their very close relationship with travel agencies (some sell only TAM tickets: CVC). So, it's no surprise.

However, I don't think they are doing bad at all with Y: two weeks ago, when in EZE, their check-in remained crowded during all the afternoon. My RG's flight with 772 was full as well (most of them with connecting flights to Europe and to the US with RG).

In domestic, I see VARIG's situation more disadvantageous than TAM's. VARIG joined the "trend" of not selling Biz tickets in domestic. Unlike TAM, RG uses several wide-bodies in domestic and now must sell Y tickets and give upgrades. Their 737s will be reconfigured though.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3):
Tam will run some flights to FOR and REC

POA will have the A330 as well, but I don't know if this REC/FOR flight are the same as POA's.



Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineUSADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 3421 times:

ARE THEY TRYING TO COMPETE HARDER AGAINST GOL?
OR JUST THE BIZ CLASS IS NOT WORTH IT ON THOSE FLIGHTS?
MAYBE JUST DURING SUMMER WHE A LOT OF TOURIST TRAVEL TO BRAZIL FROM ARG AND CHILE?


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8964 posts, RR: 39
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 17 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 10):
MAYBE JUST DURING SUMMER WHE A LOT OF TOURIST TRAVEL TO BRAZIL FROM ARG AND CHILE?

That's the first thing that came to my mind. GOL relies on pax volume to be profitable, and they are more than TAM. It may be a good move for TAM, but it doesn't look good in the long term, IMO.

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 2 hours ago) and read 3351 times:
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Quoting Brasuca (Reply 9):
POA will have the A330 as well, but I don't know if this REC/FOR flight are the same as POA's.

There is no way to see the A330 at POA in the short term (if you are looking to a topic on PanRotas, it was a big mistake, you cannot handle POA-GIG-REC-FOR-REC-GIG-POA during a day, with the mission to have the A332 available at GRU during the night). The GRU-REC and GRU-NAT-FOR-GRU flight will be operated with the two A332 from CDG. TAM will keep available only 1 A332 three times per week during the day (the one on GRU-JFK).
Look: GRU-POA 7h POA-GIG 9h GIG-REC 11h30 REC-FOR 14h50 FOR-REC 16h20 REC-GIG 18h GIG-POA 21h POA-GRU 23h GRU-JFK 1h30 (!)

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 11):
That's the first thing that came to my mind. GOL relies on pax volume to be profitable, and they are more than TAM. It may be a good move for TAM, but it doesn't look good in the long term, IMO.

Yes, could be. But Gol is by far the one with lower costs, do not offer FF program, no hot food on Y. TAM trying to face Gol competition its a signal for me that they weren't successful in face RG on south america, customers keep using RG planes. Looking for AR and RG flights non stop to GRU and GIG, all keep with healthy (very!) loads and probably yields too. AR is expected to bring the A310 back to GIG this summer.

TAM face a little loss on 2Q, this change could drive us to major changes in order to get more profitability.

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 9):
However, I don't think they are doing bad at all with Y: two weeks ago, when in EZE, their check-in remained crowded during all the afternoon. My RG's flight with 772 was full as well (most of them with connecting flights to Europe and to the US with RG).

Tam keep 4 non stop GRU-EZE but only 2 are good for connections thru GRU. One of those two face RG 772 and the other RG 738 plus AR service. Also, RG could offer connections on Argentina (as well as AR is in an agreement with RG), something that Gol and Tam does not offer (they are on O&D only). Its reduce the universe of top customers, and as stated above, JJ takes a lot of tourists paying the lower yield U and S rates.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
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