Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Northwest: Old Rules And A Future That Never Came  
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6808 times:

I came across this old Northwest ticket jacket while cleaning out some of my airline stuff. I have no idea when, where, or how it came into my posession. All I know is...I have it.

http://x-2000r.angelcities.com/images/NW_cover.JPG

There is no date printed anywhere on it so I'm going to take an educated guess and say that it was printed sometime in 1986-1989. Prior to the 1986 takeover of Republic, Northwest was still calling themselves Northwest Orient. And in 1989, of course, is when they introduced the "Bowling Shoe" livery.

At first glance, I just thought it was an old ticket jacket. Then I examined it a little more closely and realized that it is a "standby" "Non-Rev" ticket holder. I got to looking at the rules and thought to myself....sheesh...by todays standards, this is pretty strict. I can't help but wonder if something like this was printed today, it would land NWA in court JUST for printing it.

http://x-2000r.angelcities.com/images/NW_rules.JPG

I mean for starters, it has separate male and female rules. What rules would apply to a transsexual or someone who identifies itself as androgynous?

Sounds to me like NWA wasn't up to par vís-a-vís inclusion.

No midriff bare?

I've seen women who were one or two positions away from CEO wearing bare "belly" shirts, along with nose and nipple piercings not to mention tattoes and NWA dares infringe upon our right to free expression?
I guess times have changed. Now whether or not it's for the better, we can argue that some other day.


Now let's look at the right side, rules 1-8. I could not help but chuckle when I read some of them.

For instance...look at rule #3. "Confirmed passengers must always be treated as special guests"

You've GOT to be kidding me, right?

Oh wait...this was printed back in the 80's, back when you weren't viewed as a nuisance and/or would be terrorist/criminal whenevr you wanted to board an airplane.


Then look at #5. "Occasionallythe meal we've planned for you must be served to a confirmed passenger. We're sorry when this happens, but we know you'll understand"

Even then, didn't Northwest operate some VERY long flights-say of the LA or New York to Tokyo variety?

I guess if you were flying MSP-ORD, missing a meal is no big deal. But I sure would've hated to be on an LAX-NRT flight and not be able to eat anything. I know if it was me, after surviving THAT ordeal, I'd hunt down the provisionaing agent that (mis)handled that flight and beat him with rocks.

Now look at the back cover. The caption "into our future". One cannot help but laugh at the plain red tail of that hypersonic, suborbital plane, or whatever you want to call it. Looks more like a scene right out of "2001: A Space Odyssey".

http://x-2000r.angelcities.com/images/NW_future.JPG

Well I don't think we'll be seeing that in our lifetimes. Isn't NWA in bankruptcy. And aren't they still the proud owner and operator of the worlds largest active DC-9 fleet?

Maybe if they manage to pull out of this and survive until the year 2500, when such travel *might* finally be a reality, this is a future glimpse of a "retro" rocketplane.

So all of this raises a number of troubling questions. For starters. How can a company such as Northwest expect its own employees to treat the customers as "Special guests" when their own managment treats them like 6th graders? If Northwest can't even plan or provide something as simple as a freaking meal, how can they expect them to make plans (and afford) lavish rocket planes such as the one they show-that will probably cost a trillion dollars apiece-assuming they are ever built?

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCaboclo From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6761 times:

Wow, a blast from the past! I can't wait for time travel; it must be much more fun than merely touring the other side of the world.

I can remember flying American and United in the '80s and I don't recall Dad wearing a jacket or tie.



Freight dogs have more fun
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6731 times:

The livery on that spacecraft looks similar to their newest livery.


"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineZrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3117 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6690 times:

As you wrote, these are non-rev rules, and they make sense.

[Edited 2005-10-24 00:56:06]


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineTalkitron From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6654 times:

Yeah come on, this is some ticket for NWA employees flying on the cheap. I doubt even in the 80s men had to wear a sport coat in coach class and women weren't allowed to wear sandals without hosiery.  Smile

User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2870 posts, RR: 30
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6605 times:

I think these have been relaxed somewhat, but only a good handful of years ago I witnessed an US agent in Milwaukee deny a nonrev male for not wearing a sportscoat or suit. And Midwest definitely required nonrevs to dress up in the late 90's.

Some current employees should be able to fill us in.


User currently offlineAirWest From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6562 times:

The rules have been relaxed. Don't worry.

User currently offlineFloorrunner From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6549 times:

Back in the Early 80"s I worked for People Express and when we non-reved we had to wear business attire. For men that was a sportcoat, tie and dress slacks. Women had a few more options, skirt and blouse with a tie, a dress of a conservative nature, or the same as men. For both we were limited to black or navy blue and a white shirt or blouse.

User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6526 times:

Wow - you can really tell the age of someone by what they consider normal for non-reving! Not a slam to the younger members at all, but these rules are what some of us grew up on. You NEVER got on a plane w/o a coat and tie (when AA started allowing coach travel in jeans and a shirt with a collar, it was like the second coming!). Meals were luxuries that you were grateful you got, but didn't say a word if you didn't. As for the LAX-NRT no meal issue, I don't know about NWA, but AA wouldn't even board you if they didn't think they had a meal for you (in J & F anyway).

Anyway, thanks for the memories Matt.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6524 times:

Pretty sure the spacecraft was the X-30 design, nicknamed the 'Orient Express' which would have been an ultra-high altitude hypersonic craft.

Steve


User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6523 times:

Quoting Floorrunner (Reply 7):
Back in the Early 80"s I worked for People Express and when we non-reved we had to wear business attire. For men that was a sportcoat, tie and dress slacks. Women had a few more options, skirt and blouse with a tie, a dress of a conservative nature, or the same as men. For both we were limited to black or navy blue and a white shirt or blouse.

Dress codes for non-revs are still in place.

AAndrew


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6409 times:

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 10):
Dress codes for non-revs are still in place

This is also true at NW, while jeans and pants are allowed in coach, and stuff FC remains, full khakis and collared shirt type of attire. If you are wearing normal pants, shoes, etc. and coach is full and FC is open, well you get a seat... in the airport.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineNWBOS From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 157 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6382 times:

Keep in mind this was in the day where dressing up for a husband and wife didn't mean wearing matching velour track suits! These days, when I check people in I sometimes wonder if I'm working in a Greyhound terminal.

I believe in dressing for comfort too, but wearing sweats or pajama bottoms on Transatlantic flights is gross. If you look at the gate areas of the international flights it's only the Americans that do it too. I would think that if one is going to another country you would want to look presentable and not like a slob.

Class...just another thing lost in the race for rock bottom fares...


User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6349 times:

I'm right in that age group where I can see both age "standards" so to speak. I'm old enough to remember how some things USED to be and I'm young enough to empathize with the younger generation.

Although I mean no disrespect to either crowd when I say this, you older folks have to realize that, to the youngin's, you sound just like the "uphill both ways in the snow" speech that our parents and grandparents gave us.

In other words...the past is the past. The young folks never saw any of what you did. And being as such, they probably don't care either. All that todays 35 and under crowd knows is "background checks, ID badges, MP3's, and being 'sensitive to other peoples differences'". Who cares if TWA served bacon wrapped filet mignon and champaigne in First Class Domestic, or that you had to wear a suit? Nobody does any of those things anymore. TWA doesn't even exist anymore.

And you younger folks don't realize how easy you DO have it. I see young punks all the time trying so hard to be outrageous...to get attention....wearing multi colored spike hair, tats, piercings, the works....

and nobody looks, notices, or cares.

I sometimes want to go up to them and say...if you looked like THAT 20 years ago, people would've beaten the shit out of you. And no one would've even given you an employment application let alone hired you.


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6305 times:

As much as I am critical of what Northwest Airlines is today, I miss the old Northwest Airlnes.

1992 =
My first trip to London was aboard Northwest Airlines in 1992. It was a DC10 from San Francisco to Minneapolis, a 742 to Gatwick. The return was a 742 to Boston, and a 752 to San Francisco. I was overly pleased with the service, and the professionality of the flight crews. There was absolutely nothing to complain about. It was a wonderful trip.

1999 =
My first trip on KLM from Los Angeles to Rome via Amsterdam. To say the least I was less than enthused at the lack of professionalism of Northwest Airlines ground staff at LAX. In addition, there seemed to be a complete lack or understanding between the KLM crew and Northwest Airlines Agents at LAX.

2001 =
My second trip to Europe on Northwest Airlines. It was again a pleasant experience. The routing was Las Vegas to Detroit on a 752, and to Frankfurt on a DC10. The service was above what could have been expected, and the interior of both aircraft surpassed anything I could have imagined for an older model DC10. The one thing that I remember being totally shocked by was how clean and different the bathrooms on Northwest Airlines DC10 are from other airlines.

2003 =
My first sole domestic Northwest Airlines trip. The routing was La Guardia to Minneapolis on a A320, and connecting to Sacramento on a A320. The first thing I thought when I got onboard was "What Happened"? This was not the same Northwest Airlines from two years ago. Was I on the same airline?

True, I am a United Airlines fan, but I was at one time very happy with Northwest Airlines. Perhaps, I am like many other people. Many other people, that miss what Northwest Airlines was, and am afraid of what has become of Northwest Airlines. My best to all of the people that made Northwest Airlines.

KAHALA777


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6294 times:

I really am suprised that people haven't started trying to check in (at the airport) in the nude.

Dress standards really have gone down hill fast in even in the few years I've been paying attention.

I can't tell you how glad I was when I felt underdressed wearing a collared knit shirt and slacks when I went to my first production at Playhouse Square Center.

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6278 times:

Quoting Matt D (Reply 13):
you older folks have to realize that, to the youngin's, you sound just like the "uphill both ways in the snow" speech that our parents and grandparents gave us.

LOL - yep I'm sure it does. But, since you were posting something from that era, it seemed appropriate.

I make no bones, I do miss what travel was back in 70s and early 80s. But at the same time, I appreciate the fact that it's now a commodity that is accessible to just about everyone. And the fact that I'm no longer in the industry, but can still aford to fly whenever I want to, means I wouldn't trade today's environment for yesteryear's filet for anything.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6236 times:

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 15):
Dress standards really have gone down hill fast in even in the few years I've been paying attention

It is a two way street. People are treated like cattle, they dress the part. Employees are payed like cattle, they dress the part.

KAHALA777


User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6233 times:

This is not some "air travel has no class" thing.

It's simply society at large becoming far less formal. Casual Fridays, polo shirts, etc. You can argue that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it is what it is.

When I fly, be it up front or in the back, I usually wear dress pants and a polo shirt. I'm not going to wear a suit and tie to fly from Oakland to Kansas City via Phoenix.



USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineSuperD From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6087 times:

The dress code is slightly more formal than that currently required for our non-revs. We do spell out what is acceptable for male and female dress. The difference is that now jeans are technically allowed in coach, but I don't think I've ever seen a non-rev wearing jeans. On the other hand, I guess ties are pretty rare for non-revs these days. The rest of the guidelines for non-reving sound pretty standard. In fact, I don't think this varies much from my company's current non-rev policies. The only difference is the checkin times, which are mostly due to the internet enabling pass riders to do all of the work for themselves.

I suppose I am technically a member of the "younger" generation, and I don't think this policy is excessive at all. A non-rev is in some way affiliated with the airline, and they should look and act in a manner that reflects well on that airline.


User currently offlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6056 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

ive had two experiences where i was required to dress up. the first was 1995, flying Midwest express on a fam trip to Los Angeles, on the trip back, one of the women in the group, who was pregnant, was bumped from the flight because she wasn't wearing PANTY HOSE! i was like omg, get a life, who cares if someone is wearing panty hose or not! i've never flown Midwest express since. for reasons i can't remember they didn't let any of the rest of us on to begin with, so we ended up having to wait 8 hours at lax airport, because they wouldn't book us to Milwaukee.

in 1996, i took United's Experience the world program to Singapore, remembering the way i was treated by Midwest Express, i dressed up until we got on the plane from Chicago to Tokyo, once we were airborne and i was sure they would not be throwing me out of the plane at FL330, i changed into more comfortable clothes. to this day i won't travel as a travel agent because i don't want to be subjected to the ridiculous rules that come with the territory.

as for flying northwest:
1985: Denver to London Gatwick, 727-200 Den Msp, 747-100 (my first 747) Msp Lgw, rude gate agents, rude flight attendants, lights on all night kept me awake all night, dubbed it the "transatlantic torture chamber."

2005: Denver to Amsterdam, A320 Den Msp, DC-10 Msp Ams, apathetic check in agents, flight from Msp to Ams was delayed, no reprotection from NW "talk to KLM when you get to Amsterdam" had to stand in line at Transfer desk, missed connecting flight as a result, had to wait two extra hours. No information from NW officially on the cause of the delay, overheard gate agents saying it was a lav problem. trip back: 31 year old DC-10 that looked 31 years old. wings made all sorts of strange noises during start up, taxi and take off (hmm, the plane was ex-KE, maybe that explains it)

i'm sorry to say that in the 20 years since the last time i flew NW internationally, the service has not changed, i won't be flying them again abroad. then again, having flown AA on my previous three trips to Europe, i was actually expecting good service! silly me!

anyway, enough ranting from me

"Catch a Ride on a Star-Northstar Airlines, the world's largest fantasy airline"



Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlineNWBOS From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 157 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5953 times:

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 18):
This is not some "air travel has no class" thing.

I respectfully disagree. There is a problem with our society in general as far as standards go, and I'm sorry but I don't think track suits are acceptable travel attire for ANY adult, unless they are a special needs passenger.

I went to the Boston symphony the other night and saw some kids there in shorts and t-shirts. Keep in mind the musicians onstage are wearing tuxedos and black formal wear. Not only is this disrespectful to the artists, it is in extremely bad taste and judgment and takes away from the enviornment and experience that the musicians are trying to create.

We've gone way too far in the business casual direction, IMHO. Even our polo shirts that we can now wear as part of our uniform look cheap and unprofessional.


User currently offlineB707Stu From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 918 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5702 times:

Last time I worked for an airline was in the 80's. At that point we HAD to dress, dress pants, shirt, tie, jacket, period. You'd be inspected at the gate and if you didn't pass, you didn't get on. A confession of sorts. When I worked for AA in the old days of paper nonrev tkts they used to attach to the back of the tkt something that showed your nonrev status and seat number for the f/a to pull upon entry into the aircraft. I used to remove it on the jet bridge and always get a meal! Bad I know but hey I'm human!

User currently offlineSBN580 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 401 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5185 times:

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 9):
Pretty sure the spacecraft was the X-30 design, nicknamed the 'Orient Express' which would have been an ultra-high altitude hypersonic craft.

I did work with the X-30 program. This is not exactly how the X-30 was finally envisioned. This is more of a stylized version of a space plane. The X-30 was more wedge shaped and had a snubbed off nose.

Quoting NWBOS (Reply 21):
I respectfully disagree. There is a problem with our society in general as far as standards go, and I'm sorry but I don't think track suits are acceptable travel attire for ANY adult, unless they are a special needs passenger.

I went to the Boston symphony the other night and saw some kids there in shorts and t-shirts. Keep in mind the musicians onstage are wearing tuxedos and black formal wear. Not only is this disrespectful to the artists, it is in extremely bad taste and judgment and takes away from the enviornment and experience that the musicians are trying to create.

We've gone way too far in the business casual direction, IMHO. Even our polo shirts that we can now wear as part of our uniform look cheap and unprofessional.

 yes   highfive 



North Central: Good People Made Their Airline Great! FLY MD-90 POWER! Keep 'em Flying DELTA Family!
User currently offlineAccess-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3603 times:

Hello......this was a non-revenue ticket jacket....It was NOT meant for the general public...That is what all the dress coce rules are for...for NON-REVENUE travllers only , i.e., airline employees....or BUDDY PASS riders...

So chill out everyone.....

Access-Air



Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
25 JasonCRH : these rules dont surprise me... my friend's father was the CFO at Northwest in the late 1980's/ early 1990's. she told me about a time that she and he
26 Worldjet777 : I find these rules very appropriate...it would make sense to have your non-revs dress well- they represent the airline don't they?
27 Planespotting : yeah, why is the original poster so surprised about this? All airlines (from what i can gather) have dress code requirements for non reving pax. At So
28 DCrawley : Yes sir, I must agree. I remember flying DL all across the country and internationally as a kid and always asked my father why I had to wear slacks,
29 EA CO AS : I'm only 33, but grew up non-reving on EA, and to a lesser extent, CO. "Back in the day," you didn't even THINK of coming near an airport without a j
30 Post contains images Lemurs : I understand the nostalgia, but I don't miss what those days meant. Those were times when traveling by air was a special occasion, you did it infrequ
31 Flashmeister : I went to the Boston symphony the other night and saw some kids there in shorts and t-shirts. Keep in mind the musicians onstage are wearing tuxedos a
32 Post contains images Kevi747 : Yeah, but I think its fun to look back and see how things were back then. Flying was so much nicer. However I think most people tend to remember the
33 Post contains images UAcosCS : If you were a non-rev or so you call it "flying on the cheap." You did have to dress that way. Women up until a few years ago on UAL COULD NOT wear o
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
A340 And A330 Orders That Never Materialised. Why? posted Wed Feb 16 2005 14:39:25 by Juventus
Old Jets And South America! posted Sat Nov 11 2006 17:02:21 by YEGer
Asian Rules And Regs posted Thu Nov 2 2006 17:36:39 by Dimoko
NW's Fleet: Current And Future posted Tue Oct 10 2006 08:35:36 by Centrair
New Carry-on Rules And Hotels. posted Tue Aug 29 2006 04:50:49 by JerseyGuy
Delta And Future Caribbean Expansion posted Thu Jul 27 2006 22:32:55 by Humberside
Past And Future Services At SAF posted Thu Jun 29 2006 19:05:16 by 1337Delta764
Airliners That Never Were posted Fri Mar 17 2006 23:47:42 by StarGoldLHR
Models Of A/c That Never Were? posted Fri Mar 17 2006 16:31:17 by CalAir
Boeing And A Future SST? posted Wed Feb 15 2006 04:54:44 by Rigo