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Iberia To Cut Jobs And Fleet  
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3762 posts, RR: 19
Posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5619 times:

Spanish national airline, Iberia, is to cut up to 2,000 jobs and reduce the carriers fleet from 152 to 132 aircraft!

The Iberia fleet will reduce from 152 to 132 aircraft by 2008, mainly medium and short haul aircraft will go.

Also 2,000 jobs will be cut by 2008, the main reason for this cut is the rising price of fuel!

A real shame for IB!  Sad

more here:
http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1130156405.html


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What aircraft will we see disapear from the fleet?

Iberia still has A340-600's and A318's, A320's and A321's on order right?

Rob!  wave 

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBullpitt From Spain, joined Mar 2004, 871 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5560 times:

The MD will probably be going and some European routes will be cut while long haul to South America and Central America will see an increase. The Jobs to be cut will be done through early retirement plans for those over 58 and 62 for mechanics.

The cut saving plans will also affect many others parts of the company and these are being implemented to keep IB in the black for the next 3 yrs.



These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 760 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5554 times:

Left photo: It's not Iberia, It's Air Nostrum and that turbvoprop won't be affected by the cut as they are different companies....


Currently IB has several MD 87/88 to get rid of in order to move to a single fleet compossed of Airbus.... I think the 318/319 will fill this hole


User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8430 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5522 times:
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The MD-87/88 fleet will be leaving the fleetober the next few years, with a mix of A318-A321 replacing them, though if IB stick to the new plan, de-fleet wil exceed new additions.


111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333,342
User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5492 times:

Quoting B742 (Thread starter):
Iberia still has A340-600's and A318's, A320's and A321's on order right?

Three more A340-600s to be delivered, the 10th A340-600 was recently delivered.

Iberia will probably drop some MD-87/88s and B757-200s, maybe one or two A320s.



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5466 times:

Quoting AlitaliaMD11 (Reply 4):
Iberia will probably drop some MD-87/88s and B757-200s, maybe one or two A320s.

The aircraft to be dropped are:
12 B757-200s (A few of them are already operated by other company on behalf of Iberia).
24 MD87s (A few of them have already left and are flying with Spanair)
13 MD88s (Ex-Aviaco).
22 A320s (the first ones to join the fleet).

These aircraft wil be replaced by new A318s, A319s, A329s and A321s. However, the amount of aircraft to join the fleet is smaller than the amount of aircraft to be retired (as long as IB will not confirm the options it has for more aircraft).



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5431 times:

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 5):
13 MD88s (Ex-Aviaco).

I'm glad I got the opportunity to fly on these last summer. They looked pretty worn on the inside, but what a ride!!  cloudnine  Cut these fleet cuts (757's, md80's and early a320's) were already announced when they made the new a32x order right? I recall something like that, that the new order was to replace those aircraft.



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User currently offlineMD11junkie From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 3136 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5404 times:

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 1):
The MD will probably be going

This is the first thing I thought. They make absolutely no sense, even though I love the Maddogs, in IB's almost all-Airbus domestic/regional fleet.

It's a surprise that the 757s are going too, but - if you follow the logic, they are bound to go for Airbuses.

I don't know if Alfonso or anyone can answer this for me:

IBERIA was supposed to be doing good, and I lost I've heard was pretty healthy. What is the reason for these cuts? Is IB going into the red? Thanks in Advance.

What are the South American routes not profitable for IB. South America is really a gold mine for them.

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5377 times:

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 7):
IBERIA was supposed to be doing good, and I lost I've heard was pretty healthy. What is the reason for these cuts? Is IB going into the red?



No, they're not going into red or anything like it.

According to IB's management (which have increased their salaries before announcing cost cutting measures) this measures are intended to keep the airline in the black during the years to come, having in mind that the competition brought by the LCCs will be INTENSE.



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5329 times:

Quoting B742 (Thread starter):
The Iberia fleet will reduce from 152 to 132 aircraft by 2008, mainly medium and short haul aircraft will go.



Quoting B742 (Thread starter):

Iberia still has A340-600's and A318's, A320's and A321's on order right?



Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 5):
22 A320s (the first ones to join the fleet).

I'm glad IB will be keeping/adding A320's to their fleet...their short-haul Airbus looks good in IB colours!


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"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineMD11junkie From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 3136 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5321 times:

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 8):
According to IB's management (which have increased their salaries before announcing cost cutting measures)

Alfonso,
If cost cutting measures are to obtain more profitability against strong LCC competition, how is the 'pay-check-thickening' seen by many IB workers? Have they found out?

Por si queda alguna duda, no ataco a IB en esta  Smile Solo quiero saber.

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineIberiadc852 From Spain, joined May 2005, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5263 times:

Ok. they are in their right to do it. But taking this kind of decisions (reducing fleet and jobs) while they are letting go some emerging markets (China for instance) deserve very good strikes like they are likely going to have. I only hope the numbers they have made include the previsible bad reactions in staff these kind of measures should bring in a moment like this (somewhat uncertain but still wealthy for the company)


variety is the spice of life; that's what made the "old times" so good
User currently offlineFoxDelta From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5231 times:

It looks like the regional franchise Air Nostrum will dispose of its ATR72s in the next 2 years... But will begin operating CRJ900s as well as more CRJ200s.

Cheers  scratchchin 


User currently offlineAlitaliaMD11 From Spain, joined Dec 2003, 4068 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5176 times:

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 5):
The aircraft to be dropped are:
12 B757-200s (A few of them are already operated by other company on behalf of Iberia).
24 MD87s (A few of them have already left and are flying with Spanair)
13 MD88s (Ex-Aviaco).
22 A320s (the first ones to join the fleet).

Yes! Atleast I got the fleet types right!



No Vueling No Party
User currently offlineCure From Italy, joined Sep 2005, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5106 times:

IB seems to me every day more like British Airways' network's gaps' filler. Southern and Central America (with the exception of Brazil) seem to be the only true obsession for them, and I was just wondering if this is the best move for the future (that's why I agree with Iberiadc8-52), and I guess they could have fought much more for Brazil and a link between LatAm-Far East.
Just my 2 cents.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7257 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5092 times:

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 7):
IBERIA was supposed to be doing good, and I lost I've heard was pretty healthy.

The management of a well managed airline will look for cost savings when it sees something beyond its control - in this case the oil price hike - when it is doing well. Doing what DL did five years or so ago - squander a good financial situation by giving management and staff what proved to be unsustainable salary increases - is bad management.

Now the next test of how good Iberia management is will be the way they manage their cost control programme. Cutting 2,000 jobs over a three year period while keeping their employees on their side is quite possible. I am not sure how big a cut in staff numbers this will be - that is the total number of employees today. But over three years many of the 2,000 job loses will be covered by natural wastage - staff retiring or leaving for other reasons and not being replaced by new recruits. Hopefully any additional reductions will be negotiated and not enforced.

If this can be achieved it will be to the long term benefit of all remaining Iberia employees. They are not like their US brothers and sisters who can rely on Chapter 11 Protection when management mismanage.


User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5057 times:

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 5):
22 A320s (the first ones to join the fleet).

Does anybody know there they will go? To LCCs? I never understood why the legacies operate the oldest A320s while many LCCs come with tons of brand new A32s. It should be the other way round  scratchchin 

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2431 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5042 times:

Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 1):
The Jobs to be cut will be done through early retirement plans for those over 58 and 62 for mechanics.

I was wondering how they would do the job cut, since spanish labour laws are quite strict and they will not allow to fire people that easy. One of the main reasons why IB has problems with its in flight service is the job security of FA, who know that even if they provide a lousy service, they will never get fired.

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 10):
If cost cutting measures are to obtain more profitability against strong LCC competition, how is the 'pay-check-thickening' seen by many IB workers? Have they found out?

IB has been facing strong competition from LCC's, specially Vueling, so they have to react. The problem is they can't lower their operating costs easily (labour being the most difficult), so fleet standardization is a place to start.
I don't see pay checks decreasing. It is quite difficult to lower salaries in Spain.


User currently offlineDme From Portugal, joined Mar 2004, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4885 times:

Dear all,

I was also a bit surprised when I read the news about Iberia cutting up many jobs and reduce the fleet. However, as it has been talked before in A.net, the competition in Spain is a very strong one, may be the toughest in Europe. We have several Spanish companies, some more important than others (Iberia may be the biggest Spanish company but Iberia is not the flag company of Spain any more), i.e., Iberia/AirNostrum, Spanair/AeBal, Air Europa, Air Plus/Air Plus Comet, Pullmantur, Futura, Iberworld, Air Madrid, Vueling(JetBlue) and smaller ones (Gir Air is working for Spanair, other one which I don't remember the name has bought several 757´s from Iberia and are flying for them, etc.), plus foreign ones which offer or plan to offer domestic flights (i.e., not Spanish but European, and that means that compete with the Spanish ones at the same level), such as Easyjet, Ryanair, AirBerlin. Many other European ones are also offering many flights into and out of Spain. You should also add the presence in the next years of the high-velocity train, already running from Madrid to Seville and Lerida (and in two years time to Barcelona). If you sum a very tough competition and the prospect of difficult times with high prices for fuel, you should think for the future and know what are you doing very well. You know that if you fall down, many others will take your remnants, and in this case the Spanish Government will give you no financial aid, you know you are completely alone in the wild.

I suppose that this movement of Iberia is because it is preparing itself for the hard times we will see in the next future. Apart from that, as it has been said above, the jobs which will be cut will be of those people which are going to be retired in the next years (there will be no new jobs), and the aircraft reduction means that more aircraft will be phased out than those new replacing them. We will see also that many routes will be taken by subsidiaries; the only question I foresee in this moment is the relationship between Iberia and Air Nostrum (they have about 150 and 80 aircraft at this moment) and I know that Air Nostrum wants to grow and be bigger.

I think that the future will be very hard for many European companies: only a few big ones will stay and others will convert into smaller feeding ones. See what is happening in the USA (and what will happen), it is happening now in Europe and it will happen in Asia (in ten-twenty years time).

My very best regards,
Dme.


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4692 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4794 times:

So I suppose we will see many of the European and domestic routes, which are "unprofitable" at IB's production costs, being handed over to partner airlines like Air Nostrum and Audeli?


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineDme From Portugal, joined Mar 2004, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4753 times:

Tristar,

That´s my feeling. Those "unprofitably" routes could be run by completely independent companies or might be using a LCC owned by Iberia itself. That would depend strongly on the "behavior" of the unions; however, the unions also remember when Iberia closed all flights one night to stop immediately any probability of a strike. I think that Iberia workers are completely aware of the tough actual times.

Regards.


User currently offlineIcaro From Spain, joined Nov 2004, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4623 times:

Nobody is going to be fired. All job cuts are going to be early retirements. The company is not having any problems with that, rather the opposite. I think this is a mistake because all those people are going to retire during these three years anyway. This cuts should be focused on people in the 50-58 segment rather than in the 58-60. (Our retirement age is 60)
Problems will come because they want to cut our days off, our salaries while increasing our productivity. That's what we can't understand. I can fly 90 hours per month with 14 days off, yet next month I'll fly 72 hours and will have 16 days off. First they have to learn to use our potential to the maximum every month, then if it is not enough, they can start to ask for cuts.
They are cutting about 2000 jobs form workers, but how many management staff will go????
They are always comparing our workers salaries to those of the LCC's, but no comparison between theirs.
How many management staff has Easyjet for around 100 planes? We have around 500 for 150 planes.
Where do Easyjet leaders work? Ours have each an office, a secretary and most a car.
Comparisons must be fair in all fields.


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24814 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4598 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):

Christ, do you plug one of your pics in every thread or something? lol  Silly



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2431 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4554 times:

Quoting Icaro (Reply 21):
Nobody is going to be fired. All job cuts are going to be early retirements. The company is not having any problems with that, rather the opposite. I think this is a mistake because all those people are going to retire during these three years anyway. This cuts should be focused on people in the 50-58 segment rather than in the 58-60. (Our retirement age is 60)

It is quite difficult to fire people under Spanish labour laws, so they have to stick to early retirements.

Quoting Icaro (Reply 21):
Problems will come because they want to cut our days off, our salaries while increasing our productivity. That's what we can't understand. I can fly 90 hours per month with 14 days off, yet next month I'll fly 72 hours and will have 16 days off. First they have to learn to use our potential to the maximum every month, then if it is not enough, they can start to ask for cuts. They are cutting about 2000 jobs form workers, but how many management staff will go????
They are always comparing our workers salaries to those of the LCC's, but no comparison between theirs.
How many management staff has Easyjet for around 100 planes? We have around 500 for 150 planes.
Where do Easyjet leaders work? Ours have each an office, a secretary and most a car.
Comparisons must be fair in all fields.

You hit the main concern of all companies in Spain. Productivity is low, and it is because of Spanish labour laws that the country can't increase productivity. Spain has seen its productivity numbers fall for the last 10 years (one of the worst countries terms of productivity in the EU) thanks to the job security guaranteed by the law. All companies in Spain are talking about increasing it, but it will not happen until the government changes the law, making it more flexible. There are tons of young Spaniards looking for a job with an indefinite contract, but all they get is a temporary one. Instead, people in their 30+, who got their jobs before the temporary contracts were authorized, have job security and good salaries. Therefore, IB management will not be reduced and the corporate headquarters will keep being overstaffed. Competition is indeed hurting IB and there is not much they can do to reduce costs, but to standardize their fleet. After that, and when the AVE starts running all the way to Barcelona, IB will have to come with new ideas to keep the business!


User currently offlineIBERIA747 From Spain, joined Aug 2003, 1831 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

Quoting Rojo (Reply 23):
It is quite difficult to fire people under Spanish labour laws, so they have to stick to early retirements.

While it can be partially true if you work for the government, the reality in private companies is the complete opposite.

Quoting Rojo (Reply 23):
Productivity is low, and it is because of Spanish labour laws that the country can't increase productivity.

Again...that's not the case in the market I work for...which happens to be one of the main "motors" of the Spanish economy.

The motto in my company is "o llegas al objetivo o te vas a la puta calle"..as simple as that. And it's not just a threat since they don't think it twice to fire someone. Believe me, they know how to mantain a high productivity, even though our company is less strict than many of our competitors.

An interesting example of this "high pressure" is a very famous Spanish company, which could also be the biggest company in this country: El Corte Inglés (Total sales of over €14 billion last year and about 100,000 employees)...you would be surprised.

I am sorry but what you say is not true. Maybe if you work for the Government, but not for the majority of the working population.



¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
25 Egmcman : A321's are the replacements for these it was planed once they got over A320/321 pilot salary dispute. I think they are focusing on the 58-60 age grou
26 Bullpitt : Love the speculation by some of the members here, many talking about things they have no clue about. Without going into details, which at the moment a
27 Post contains links Rojo : Well, at least for the banking and hotel/airline industry, it is true. I work for a bank and it is quite difficult to fire someone in our Spain branc
28 Icaro : IB compares us to LAn Chile or Easyjet, never to BA or AF. We are not above market when compared to them. I meant that the maximum i can work is 90 h
29 Anxebla : Sorry Rojo, but ...NOT, it is not true at all. Spanish salaries are by far, pretty low if you make comparison with France, Ireland/UK, Germany, Belgi
30 CRJ900 : So rumours (even in Flight International) about the introduction of CRJ900s are true then? Then why haven't they announced it publicly with BBD listi
31 Rojo : That is exactly my point, salaries are low and if you add the use of short term contracts where companies do not train people because there is high t
32 Anxebla : Interesting ...but remember figures can be manipulating easily Only if there is a judge who pass sentence with a "despido improcedente" order I belie
33 Post contains links Aisak : Air Nostrum's CEO Interview (lowcost, Blacklists) (by Aisak Oct 24 2005 in Civil Aviation) Confirmed by Air Nostrum CEO here and more conviniently he
34 Bullpitt : First of all for some of those who are not Spanish and for some who are. If you are fired and go to court over the matter the judge can say its legal
35 Spantax : Hi, Does anybody knows which domestic routes of Iberia are considered as loss-making? It must be a well kept secret due to political reasons (all the
36 Aisak : If it is a loss making then it's transfered to YW Iberia Regional Air Nostrum. With small planes and good schedule that route can turn to profit
37 Anxebla : Can you believe this yourself? X. de Irala was a very good as an Iberia CEO, but sincerely It is hard for me trusting in this current management. May
38 Bullpitt : Anxebla As an IB employee I don't think a merger with BA will be the best thing although only time will tell. I don't support current management but a
39 Anxebla : @Bullpitt: Like a former IB groud staff and as a son of a retired 747 Flight Attendant I find this current management a bit confused. I have never see
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