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F9 Defends DEN  
User currently offlineJerion From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 253 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5762 times:

Frontier's frequency increases will include the following:
Beginning November 6, 2005:
* Denver to/from Salt Lake City (SLC) from four mainline flights to five.

Beginning December 18, 2005:
* Denver to/from Dallas (DFW) from five mainline flights to six.

Beginning January 4, 2006:
* Denver to/from Phoenix (PHX) from six mainline flights to seven.
* Denver to/from Las Vegas (LAS) from six mainline flights to seven.
* Denver to/from Chicago-Midway (MDW) from four mainline flights to five.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051024/clm523.html?.v=7


L10/D9S/D10/M80/M88/732/733/734/735/73G/738/72S/757/762/763/320/319/318/ERJ
66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9302 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5736 times:

well, if that isn't an inclination on the planned Southwest routes....


Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineSocalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5718 times:

This is going to be an interesting horse race.

User currently offlineBrick From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1579 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5683 times:

So what cities will lose frequency? Or will these routes be utilizing new aircraft deliveries?


A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man...
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5664 times:

What about LAX? Or flying into BUR? I'd like to see more Frontier flights to my area, as I would fly them more.

You listening F9? Fly into our area more so we can make good connections in DEN. We want you here! Even if your gate space at LAX is ratty...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5650 times:
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Quoting Stlgph (Reply 1):
well, if that isn't an inclination on the planned Southwest routes....

Um - I don't think Southwest will be starting DEN/DFW.  Smile

Quoting Brick (Reply 3):
So what cities will lose frequency? Or will these routes be utilizing new aircraft deliveries?

I doubt any city will lose frequency - exept, perhaps, CUN, but that wasn't in the plan for this.

Frontier has the aircraft to cope with these extra frequencies, and there are no new deliveries until March '06.

I'm not sure that any of this is a reaction to Southwest - Frontier people on another board are saying it has been in the pipeline for a while.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineStlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9302 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5642 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 5):
Um - I don't think Southwest will be starting DEN/DFW. Smile

you don't say?



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 53
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5619 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 5):
I'm not sure that any of this is a reaction to Southwest - Frontier people on another board are saying it has been in the pipeline for a while.

So it's just a pure coincidence that the additions to MDW, PHX, and LAS (3 strong cities for WN) are added right after WN announces DEN service??? Seems a little too coincidental for me...

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5620 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
Even if your gate space at LAX is ratty...

Um, they have nowhere else to go.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5589 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Um, they have nowhere else to go.

Why do you ALWAYS argue with me? What is your problem? Did I sleep with your sister and not call her or something?

just because they have nowhere else to go doesn't mean the gate space isn't ratty!!

And I said I'd still fly out of the terminal, it's just a fact that, unless something has changed recently, they fly out of an area that needs some work.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5564 times:
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Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 7):
Seems a little too coincidental for me..

You may be right. I don't know. I am just repeating what some Frontier folk are saying on another board.

And they have had 5 x daily DEN/MDW before.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently onlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6521 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5538 times:

Building PHX up to 7 flights a day is surprising seeing how they have lost money on the route since they went from 5 to 6 flights per day. Perhaps the 7th flight will just be a seasonal thing.

On the other hand, DFW/MDW/LAS increases are no brainers. I'm still undecided about SLC.


User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5517 times:

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 2):
This is going to be an interesting horse race.

Frontier will be able to hold their own against Southwest.

Frontier has low operating costs like Southwest. But they offer IFE. People love their inflight entertainment.

I think, however, Southwest will definitely be a competitive threat to United.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5490 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9):
Why do you ALWAYS argue with me? What is your problem? Did I sleep with your sister and not call her or something?

 rotfl  rotfl 

That was funny except for the fact that I don't have a sister. I don't ALWAYS argue with you, I just point out where you are wrong. People do it to me all the time. That is how one learns.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAzstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 617 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5476 times:

I guess you can't have too many empty airplanes flying between Denver and Phoenix. Let's add a few more to see if we can push the low factor down to 30% and the yield to .02 per mile.

[Edited 2005-10-25 01:31:01]

User currently offlineThelowfarehero From Cayman Islands, joined Aug 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5459 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
Or flying into BUR? I'd like to see more Frontier flights to my area, as I would fly them more.

BUR...yeah, thats what I would like to see.....UA's DEN service from BUR is prettly ratty.



I HAATE AA!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5449 times:

Quoting Thelowfarehero (Reply 15):
BUR...yeah, thats what I would like to see.....UA's DEN service from BUR is prettly ratty.

Yeah, I really don't get UA's desire to put RJs on a route that goes from an airport that is much more of a high yield place.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2763 posts, RR: 33
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5400 times:

It probably is just a coincidence;with more flights coming into DEN means they need more connections, I don't think they added more flights to defend they're hub.If they wanted to defend their hub the would add a lot more gates(if there is space)where WN couldn't buy any gates,or pospond their flights into DEN because of construction work on making more gates and/or terminals.

Thats my  twocents 

J E T M A T T 7 7 7



No info
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5336 times:

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 17):
If they wanted to defend their hub the would add a lot more gates(if there is space)

F9 is pretty much out of room, especially after UA decided to swallow up gates in A for Ted, much to F9's chagrin. WN would be in the C concourse, likely taking both the 1 free gate there plus that of TZ.

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 17):
where WN couldn't buy any gates

WN can't "buy" gates anywhere. They can enter into a lease with the airport, but they wont "own" it. This is even true of DAL.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineJetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2763 posts, RR: 33
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5298 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
WN can't "buy" gates anywhere. They can enter into a lease with the airport, but they wont "own" it. This is even true of DAL.

Thats what i meant;in my model airport when i buy a new airplane for my model airport ive gottn used to saying "buy"not"lease" sorry for the mis-understanding



No info
User currently offlineMilemaster From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5281 times:

Glad to see the additional DFW F9 flight as it will increase the number of connection opportunites. The few times I flew them this year they were oversold departing DFW, even overheard the station manager comment how it's been that way consistantly for quite some time.

Frontier has a great product.


User currently onlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5197 times:

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 12):
I think, however, Southwest will definitely be a competitive threat to United.

I don't. UA has a lot of feed at DEN, and will easily be able to hold their own. In Chicago they deal with WN just fine (and don't give me the crap about how WN is at a different airport, they freakin' own MDW), Independence did a whole lot of nothing to them in IAD, and F9, while taking some market share, has not really crippled UA either (in fact, I think I read somewhere that the two airlines actually help each other in some weird twisted way). I look at this sort of like what WN going into ATL would be like...while ATL is obviously a much stronger airport for DL than DEN is for UA, it's a similar situation...large network carrier and a strong LCC, and that's about it.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5113 times:
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Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 21):
I think I read somewhere that the two airlines actually help each other in some weird twisted way

I like "weird and twisted".  Smile

I don't know that they actually "help" each. If they did, United would give Frontier the A gates and wouldn't have started Ted, but I think they are not sworn enemies anymore.

Just this week, United CEO Tilton said that they are a better airline because of "having to compete with Frontier."

If Frontier has to transfer pax, they send 'em to United, and vice versa.

I think the days when United would "crush Frontier like a gnat" are gone.

And they'll do a better job against Southwest as allies, not as enemies.

Happily.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4991 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 21):
UA has a lot of feed at DEN,

Yea, i agree with you there. But I think Southwest will definitely grab marketshare in the non-stop markets where they compete with UA.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 21):
In Chicago they deal with WN just fine

I agree with you there too. But (and that's a big butt), Chicago is a much, much larger market than Denver, more easily accomodating 3 hub carriers (AA, UA, WN).

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineN471WN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4901 times:
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If Frontier were smart they should consider Colorado Springs now that WN has passed on it. I know the whole Western Pacific story but there is no way that Frontier can compete with WN on identical routes. After all, they did not really compete with UAL in that they were afraid to underprice them and so in the process they pissed off the Denver people just like United. I got hit with a $100 change fee on a one day change 6 weeks in advance. They cannot get away with that now that WN is in their house. I love their planes, the animals and all that but they had a chance to "open up Denver" and they failed to do so. Now that opportunity is lost and folks will stream to WN---I will be one of the first.

25 TWAAF9 : Hate to burst your Southwest bubble, but WN has fees for changing your flight, just like anyone else. And forget free same-day standby, too.
26 DLKAPA : Oh trust me, they can. One airline has PTVs, a huge local following with multiple daily frequencies to almost every major market (with the exception
27 UAPremierGuy : LOL Azstar. Anybody know the frequencies on this route? We know Frontier's, what about America West? That is one of their hubs and point-to-point ser
28 SWALoveField : That is not true. WN has no fees for changing your flight reservation. You are only charged (or credited) the difference in fare. Robb Dallas, TX
29 N1120A : Um, I wouldn't exactly call Chicago (or anywhere) a hub for WN. Look at it this way. UA has like 500-600 departures per day at ORD, AA has almost as
30 DLKAPA : So instead of going with normal A320 service they were smart by running higher-capacity TED in a flooded market?
31 Iowaman : I feel the same way. There is seemingly endless LCC demand between DEN-DFW/MDW and especially LAS, even though LAS yields are going to be crap and al
32 N1120A : United is stupid to run Ted on any service. I mean, do they really think that running a 4 F/A Ted bird will make them more money and expose them to l
33 Flyboy7974 : MSYtristar, where did you find or get the info about F9 losing on the phx market? are you able to load info on an employee site that shows load factor
34 Post contains images DLKAPA : I completely agree. TED is only in existance to cook the books on mainline, as far as I can tell. They really don't do much and UA employees (at leas
35 Ckfred : I saw an article in Saturday's Chicago Tribune about the new WN service to DEN. Mike Boyd, a well-known analyst in the airline sector, thinks that F9
36 Mariner : If they did not underprice United, why did United start Ted? Frontier's fares are capped - mainline United fares are not capped - Ted's fares are cap
37 Flashmeister : Mike Boyd, a well-known analyst in the airline sector, thinks that F9 and UA could very well pummel WN, since the competition between F9 and UA have k
38 PVD757 : I also think that DEN is a big enough market to support a modest WN operation. Look at the feed from east coast stations that have NO DEN (UA or F9) s
39 Gigneil : Southwest won't be anywhere near #3. I'd expect Delta to probably retain that title. There's only so much WN can do out of 2 gates. N
40 Georgiabill : I agree with all these points brought up in this thread. 1 WN isn't going to put anyone out of business by serving DEN. 2 A few carriers like AS AA wi
41 Acjflyer : An increase of frequency between DEN and SLC is a great idea. I just got back from a weekend trip to DEN from SLC and both flights were full. The serv
42 PVD757 : BDL, RDU, PVD, MHT, and BUF (seasonal?) could all support a 1X DEN on WN, F9, or UA. UA and F9 have the CR7 whcih makes some of these even more doable
43 AirFrnt : Denver has a lot of capacity,and that capacity is fairly well spread out among the different carriers. Airtran, American, American West, Alaska, Big S
44 Flashmeister : I think ultimately depending on gate space and passenger growth you could see a 40-50 flights a day. Just my opinion. To run 40 flights a day, WN nee
45 Post contains images Lightsaber : First, I'm amused how much noise is being made over WN getting two whole gates at DEN. Please, don't go out on a limb. Are there any more gates "up fo
46 MaverickM11 : I think we'll see a similar situation as DTW or CLE where NW and CO have respectively kept WN at bay with only a handful of marginally full flights.
47 UAcosCS : Give em' HELL F9 They would be a bigger threat to F9 before they would UA Keep believing that, UAL has never had the chance to take them down. F9 wou
48 Ikramerica : Guy, that's not true. You don't just "point out when I am wrong." You pick arguments over mundane things or "correct" things that don't need correcti
49 Post contains images Mariner : It seemed funny to me, given the fuss about DAL. But then - people say I have a warped sense of humor.   There is no progress - the gates are not (y
50 DAYflyer : My money is on the airline with the animals on the tails then. Given WN history in Denver, plus Frontier being a sentimental home-town favorite gives
51 DLKAPA : Any word of A320/321?
52 Mariner : That possibility will always exist in any Frontier contract with Airbus, as with the present one. A committment is another matter. The CEO says they
53 Post contains links Iowaman : There are some airports they get between 10 and 12 flights a day through one gate such as OAK (an average of 11.8 flights per gate as of May 4th, 200
54 Quickmover : Would Southwest ever consider boarding with airstairs on the tarmac if demand was strong enough?
55 N1120A : A nasty 735 or 733? I flew on one last week that was just fine, and UA could certainly freshen the interiors if they wanted to. Adding 18 seats at th
56 TPASXM787 : Agreed. Flew Ted TPA-ORD-TPA and the only good thing was channel 9. The snack box was ok. I didn't even bother with the programming but it's just an
57 Dallas74 : I think LUV's start up in DEN might be two fold: 1. They know TZ is going to pull out of Denver and with the extra capacity they have with MSY being d
58 AirFrnt : There is also the possibility that WN anticipates either UA or F9 dying and wants to be in a position to dominate that market if either pull out of DE
59 Lightsaber : They'll be waiting a while. F9 is healthy, UA will exit BK in Feb. I'm very curious if F9 gets A320's or A321's. What I do not know is the A321 perfo
60 AirFrnt : F9 has been under investor expectations (and will continue to) due to high fuel prices. UA may exit BK in good shape or not. US exited BK way early a
61 Mariner : I'm guessing you mean analyst expectations? It depends on the analyst. In part, obviously, the crude oil price has affected Frontier, as it has every
62 UAcosCS : I work for UAL and have never heard that term. I cant believe that you of all people would listen or believe some of the idiots on this forum. I woul
63 Post contains images UAcosCS : That is why TED is here, nobody was buying First class seats in certain markets. Adding more seats to a otherwise shabby class of service made UAL a
64 Mariner : It wasn't just this forum, believe me. This is not my "home" board - that board was saturated with investors crowing about the imminent demise of Fro
65 Post contains links and images DLKAPA : Mariner, since your so good at convincing F9 to paint stuff on their planes, I think it would be sweet to see an A319 version of this: View Large View
66 UAcosCS : I have had my beefs with F9, about how UAL and them compete at times, but for the most part I like F9. I didnt know this was being said, I have NEVER
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