Jerion From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 253 posts, RR: 1 Posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5028 times:
Frontier's frequency increases will include the following:
Beginning November 6, 2005:
* Denver to/from Salt Lake City (SLC) from four mainline flights to five.
Beginning December 18, 2005:
* Denver to/from Dallas (DFW) from five mainline flights to six.
Beginning January 4, 2006:
* Denver to/from Phoenix (PHX) from six mainline flights to seven.
* Denver to/from Las Vegas (LAS) from six mainline flights to seven.
* Denver to/from Chicago-Midway (MDW) from four mainline flights to five.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 4, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4930 times:
What about LAX? Or flying into BUR? I'd like to see more Frontier flights to my area, as I would fly them more.
You listening F9? Fly into our area more so we can make good connections in DEN. We want you here! Even if your gate space at LAX is ratty...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
USAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 54 Reply 7, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4885 times:
Quoting Mariner (Reply 5): I'm not sure that any of this is a reaction to Southwest - Frontier people on another board are saying it has been in the pipeline for a while.
So it's just a pure coincidence that the additions to MDW, PHX, and LAS (3 strong cities for WN) are added right after WN announces DEN service??? Seems a little too coincidental for me...
Greg
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 9, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4855 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 8): Um, they have nowhere else to go.
Why do you ALWAYS argue with me? What is your problem? Did I sleep with your sister and not call her or something?
just because they have nowhere else to go doesn't mean the gate space isn't ratty!!
And I said I'd still fly out of the terminal, it's just a fact that, unless something has changed recently, they fly out of an area that needs some work.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6242 posts, RR: 51 Reply 11, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4804 times:
Building PHX up to 7 flights a day is surprising seeing how they have lost money on the route since they went from 5 to 6 flights per day. Perhaps the 7th flight will just be a seasonal thing.
On the other hand, DFW/MDW/LAS increases are no brainers. I'm still undecided about SLC.
Jetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2984 posts, RR: 8 Reply 12, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4783 times:
Quoting Socalfive (Reply 2): This is going to be an interesting horse race.
Frontier will be able to hold their own against Southwest.
Frontier has low operating costs like Southwest. But they offer IFE. People love their inflight entertainment.
I think, however, Southwest will definitely be a competitive threat to United.
Worked for too many airlines to list. Banktupcy after bankruptcy after bankruptcy.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 13, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4756 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9): Why do you ALWAYS argue with me? What is your problem? Did I sleep with your sister and not call her or something?
That was funny except for the fact that I don't have a sister. I don't ALWAYS argue with you, I just point out where you are wrong. People do it to me all the time. That is how one learns.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Azstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 541 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4742 times:
I guess you can't have too many empty airplanes flying between Denver and Phoenix. Let's add a few more to see if we can push the low factor down to 30% and the yield to .02 per mile.
Jetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2661 posts, RR: 36 Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4666 times:
It probably is just a coincidence;with more flights coming into DEN means they need more connections, I don't think they added more flights to defend they're hub.If they wanted to defend their hub the would add a lot more gates(if there is space)where WN couldn't buy any gates,or pospond their flights into DEN because of construction work on making more gates and/or terminals.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 18, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4602 times:
Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 17): If they wanted to defend their hub the would add a lot more gates(if there is space)
F9 is pretty much out of room, especially after UA decided to swallow up gates in A for Ted, much to F9's chagrin. WN would be in the C concourse, likely taking both the 1 free gate there plus that of TZ.
Jetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2661 posts, RR: 36 Reply 19, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4564 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 18): WN can't "buy" gates anywhere. They can enter into a lease with the airport, but they wont "own" it. This is even true of DAL.
Thats what i meant;in my model airport when i buy a new airplane for my model airport ive gottn used to saying "buy"not"lease" sorry for the mis-understanding
Milemaster From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1009 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4547 times:
Glad to see the additional DFW F9 flight as it will increase the number of connection opportunites. The few times I flew them this year they were oversold departing DFW, even overheard the station manager comment how it's been that way consistantly for quite some time.
FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4005 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4463 times:
Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 12): I think, however, Southwest will definitely be a competitive threat to United.
I don't. UA has a lot of feed at DEN, and will easily be able to hold their own. In Chicago they deal with WN just fine (and don't give me the crap about how WN is at a different airport, they freakin' own MDW), Independence did a whole lot of nothing to them in IAD, and F9, while taking some market share, has not really crippled UA either (in fact, I think I read somewhere that the two airlines actually help each other in some weird twisted way). I look at this sort of like what WN going into ATL would be like...while ATL is obviously a much stronger airport for DL than DEN is for UA, it's a similar situation...large network carrier and a strong LCC, and that's about it.
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22716 posts, RR: 88 Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4379 times:
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 21): I think I read somewhere that the two airlines actually help each other in some weird twisted way
I like "weird and twisted".
I don't know that they actually "help" each. If they did, United would give Frontier the A gates and wouldn't have started Ted, but I think they are not sworn enemies anymore.
Just this week, United CEO Tilton said that they are a better airline because of "having to compete with Frontier."
If Frontier has to transfer pax, they send 'em to United, and vice versa.
I think the days when United would "crush Frontier like a gnat" are gone.
And they'll do a better job against Southwest as allies, not as enemies.
Jetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2984 posts, RR: 8 Reply 23, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4257 times:
I agree with you there too. But (and that's a big butt), Chicago is a much, much larger market than Denver, more easily accomodating 3 hub carriers (AA, UA, WN).
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Worked for too many airlines to list. Banktupcy after bankruptcy after bankruptcy.
N471WN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1182 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4167 times:
If Frontier were smart they should consider Colorado Springs now that WN has passed on it. I know the whole Western Pacific story but there is no way that Frontier can compete with WN on identical routes. After all, they did not really compete with UAL in that they were afraid to underprice them and so in the process they pissed off the Denver people just like United. I got hit with a $100 change fee on a one day change 6 weeks in advance. They cannot get away with that now that WN is in their house. I love their planes, the animals and all that but they had a chance to "open up Denver" and they failed to do so. Now that opportunity is lost and folks will stream to WN---I will be one of the first.
25 TWAAF9: Hate to burst your Southwest bubble, but WN has fees for changing your flight, just like anyone else. And forget free same-day standby, too.
26 DLKAPA: Oh trust me, they can. One airline has PTVs, a huge local following with multiple daily frequencies to almost every major market (with the exception
27 UAPremierGuy: LOL Azstar. Anybody know the frequencies on this route? We know Frontier's, what about America West? That is one of their hubs and point-to-point ser
28 SWALoveField: That is not true. WN has no fees for changing your flight reservation. You are only charged (or credited) the difference in fare. Robb Dallas, TX
29 N1120A: Um, I wouldn't exactly call Chicago (or anywhere) a hub for WN. Look at it this way. UA has like 500-600 departures per day at ORD, AA has almost as
30 DLKAPA: So instead of going with normal A320 service they were smart by running higher-capacity TED in a flooded market?
31 Iowaman: I feel the same way. There is seemingly endless LCC demand between DEN-DFW/MDW and especially LAS, even though LAS yields are going to be crap and al
32 N1120A: United is stupid to run Ted on any service. I mean, do they really think that running a 4 F/A Ted bird will make them more money and expose them to l
33 Flyboy7974: MSYtristar, where did you find or get the info about F9 losing on the phx market? are you able to load info on an employee site that shows load factor
34 DLKAPA: I completely agree. TED is only in existance to cook the books on mainline, as far as I can tell. They really don't do much and UA employees (at leas
35 Ckfred: I saw an article in Saturday's Chicago Tribune about the new WN service to DEN. Mike Boyd, a well-known analyst in the airline sector, thinks that F9
36 Mariner: If they did not underprice United, why did United start Ted? Frontier's fares are capped - mainline United fares are not capped - Ted's fares are cap
37 Flashmeister: Mike Boyd, a well-known analyst in the airline sector, thinks that F9 and UA could very well pummel WN, since the competition between F9 and UA have k
38 PVD757: I also think that DEN is a big enough market to support a modest WN operation. Look at the feed from east coast stations that have NO DEN (UA or F9) s
39 Gigneil: Southwest won't be anywhere near #3. I'd expect Delta to probably retain that title. There's only so much WN can do out of 2 gates. N
40 Georgiabill: I agree with all these points brought up in this thread. 1 WN isn't going to put anyone out of business by serving DEN. 2 A few carriers like AS AA wi
41 Acjflyer: An increase of frequency between DEN and SLC is a great idea. I just got back from a weekend trip to DEN from SLC and both flights were full. The serv
42 PVD757: BDL, RDU, PVD, MHT, and BUF (seasonal?) could all support a 1X DEN on WN, F9, or UA. UA and F9 have the CR7 whcih makes some of these even more doable
43 AirFrnt: Denver has a lot of capacity,and that capacity is fairly well spread out among the different carriers. Airtran, American, American West, Alaska, Big S
44 Flashmeister: I think ultimately depending on gate space and passenger growth you could see a 40-50 flights a day. Just my opinion. To run 40 flights a day, WN nee
45 Lightsaber: First, I'm amused how much noise is being made over WN getting two whole gates at DEN. Please, don't go out on a limb. Are there any more gates "up fo
46 MaverickM11: I think we'll see a similar situation as DTW or CLE where NW and CO have respectively kept WN at bay with only a handful of marginally full flights.
47 UAcosCS: Give em' HELL F9 They would be a bigger threat to F9 before they would UA Keep believing that, UAL has never had the chance to take them down. F9 wou
48 Ikramerica: Guy, that's not true. You don't just "point out when I am wrong." You pick arguments over mundane things or "correct" things that don't need correcti
49 Mariner: It seemed funny to me, given the fuss about DAL. But then - people say I have a warped sense of humor. There is no progress - the gates are not (y
50 DAYflyer: My money is on the airline with the animals on the tails then. Given WN history in Denver, plus Frontier being a sentimental home-town favorite gives
52 Mariner: That possibility will always exist in any Frontier contract with Airbus, as with the present one. A committment is another matter. The CEO says they
53 Iowaman: There are some airports they get between 10 and 12 flights a day through one gate such as OAK (an average of 11.8 flights per gate as of May 4th, 200
54 Quickmover: Would Southwest ever consider boarding with airstairs on the tarmac if demand was strong enough?
55 N1120A: A nasty 735 or 733? I flew on one last week that was just fine, and UA could certainly freshen the interiors if they wanted to. Adding 18 seats at th
56 TPASXM787: Agreed. Flew Ted TPA-ORD-TPA and the only good thing was channel 9. The snack box was ok. I didn't even bother with the programming but it's just an
57 Dallas74: I think LUV's start up in DEN might be two fold: 1. They know TZ is going to pull out of Denver and with the extra capacity they have with MSY being d
58 AirFrnt: There is also the possibility that WN anticipates either UA or F9 dying and wants to be in a position to dominate that market if either pull out of DE
59 Lightsaber: They'll be waiting a while. F9 is healthy, UA will exit BK in Feb. I'm very curious if F9 gets A320's or A321's. What I do not know is the A321 perfo
60 AirFrnt: F9 has been under investor expectations (and will continue to) due to high fuel prices. UA may exit BK in good shape or not. US exited BK way early a
61 Mariner: I'm guessing you mean analyst expectations? It depends on the analyst. In part, obviously, the crude oil price has affected Frontier, as it has every
62 UAcosCS: I work for UAL and have never heard that term. I cant believe that you of all people would listen or believe some of the idiots on this forum. I woul
63 UAcosCS: That is why TED is here, nobody was buying First class seats in certain markets. Adding more seats to a otherwise shabby class of service made UAL a
64 Mariner: It wasn't just this forum, believe me. This is not my "home" board - that board was saturated with investors crowing about the imminent demise of Fro
65 DLKAPA: Mariner, since your so good at convincing F9 to paint stuff on their planes, I think it would be sweet to see an A319 version of this: View Large View
66 UAcosCS: I have had my beefs with F9, about how UAL and them compete at times, but for the most part I like F9. I didnt know this was being said, I have NEVER
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