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TAP And Macau  
User currently offlineUSADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2707 times:

TAP Air Portugal ever had flights connecting Portugal and Macau?
I just wonder, since Macau was (is?) a portuguese colony.What other cities in Asia TAP have flights?  Cool

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineYago From Iceland, joined May 2002, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2689 times:

I can't see any Asia destination in their website  Sad

But you right. Did they fly to Macau one it was a Portuguese colony?


User currently offlineYago From Iceland, joined May 2002, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2683 times:

Well I think I've just found the answer  Wink

http://airtransportbiz.free.fr/Networks/TAPMFM.html


User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2673 times:

Hi!

Yes TAP had flights to Macau in late 90's, just a little before Macau was passed to China again and after Macau airport was opened. The flight was operated with the A340-300 and it was LIS/BRU/BKK/MFM. I think it lasted a few months!!!
Regards


User currently offlineLatinplane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2728 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2622 times:

The flight was a total waist of resources and it is said that it was one of the reasons why TAP was near bankruptcy. I do not remember the full details but according to what I've read, the Macau route was in fact directly responsible for a third of TAP losses during those years. Someone else should be able to give more details.

 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlineA360 From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 434 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2618 times:

Why did they fly through BRU??

Why not just LIS-BKK-MFM??


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2592 times:

TAP and Sabena were both part of the Swissair lead Qualiflyer Alliance. So TAP flow via BRU to get at least a little bit of passengers on board to BKK.

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2577 times:

TAP did fly to Macau via BRU with the A343, I believe that the flights operated 2 times per week in the mid 1990s. The demand was simply not there, and after losing a good amount of money flying this prestige route, TAP dropped the service.

One of the main reasons that TAP has the A343 in its fleet was to operate the route to Macau. The stop in BRU was to add pax (there were few) but also due to range issues - nonstop out of LIS to Macau was a bit long for TAP's early build A343s. As pointed out above, at the time, TAP and Sabena were related via the Swissair connection.

I do not recall the flights stopping in BKK, as mentioned above.


User currently offlineBr343 From Portugal, joined May 2004, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2572 times:

Hi,

The initial routing was via SN's hub at Brussels, because Sabena was a commercial partner to that routing so initial routing was LIS-BRU-MFM, but didn't meet the expectations of both airlines (TAP and Sabena).

TAP changed the routing to LIS-BKG-MFM, hoping to get more traffic from the more popular Europe-Bangkok (BKK) flights. better, but didn't meet the expectations of TAP (profits).

TAP re-routed the operations as LIS-Istanbul (IST)-BKK-MFM, final routing, with a good Load of 84%.

LIS-MFM was a not a "Former" TAP routing, was a government Routing, and TAP suffered from that.

The routing starts with 30% load factor, when thy dropped, the Load factor are 84%, they dropped the Route after Swissair (at that time, a TAP partner and potencial owner) imposition, SR fly daily to Hong Kong, and do not want TAP flight to MFM.

TAP fly to MFM from 96 to 99.

Tree final notes:
First the Flight was not needed, they start them, then the Flights starts to get some success, they dropped.

Its a shame to Portugal don't have a link to it's colony.

Macau was as the first economic Region in 2004.

Regards



Ricardo
User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2542 times:

Well... you know, I just don't see why anyone would want to fly into MFM instead of HKG -- Macau is only a stone's throw away by boat, and while it's got lots of casinos, it's not a big foreign tourist destination and the colony wasn't big enough to sustain that route really.

User currently offlineJetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2987 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2516 times:

Quoting Latinplane (Reply 4):
The flight was a total waist of resources and it is said that it was one of the reasons why TAP was near bankruptcy

Yea, but european countries like to try to keep their former empire connected by air. It was a prestige thing.



Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
User currently offlineBrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1289 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2390 times:

There never was a LIS-BRU-BKK-MFM. Believe me there would have been people flying that BRU-BKK segment! It was always limited to LIS-BRU-MFM which indeed is a nonsense route. Guess the bilaterals between all the parties involved didn't allow for such flights (LIS-BRU-BKK-MFM) in which case they would have been successful.
Now I didn't say they would have been profitable.



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlineLPLAspotter From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2368 times:

Quoting A360 (Reply 5):
Why not just LIS-BKK-MFM??

they dropped BRU after awhile. Flew the BKK-LIS flight once. Load was very light and the flight very long.

cheers:
LPLAspotter



Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
User currently offlineTAP1972 From Portugal, joined Dec 2003, 396 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2355 times:

Quoting Br343 (Reply 8):
Its a shame to Portugal don't have a link to it's colony.

ex-colony.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 10):
Yea, but european countries like to try to keep their former empire connected by air. It was a prestige thing.

Some but not all, if it's not profitable why flying. Prestige can be too expensive.


In the last year of operation I think it was included the boat/ferry connection from Macau to HOng Kong


User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2257 times:

Hi!

My opinion was when portuguese government agreed with chinese government to built the airport at Macau it was a matter of months or years that TAP had ( at least during some time... ) to fly to Macau. But I agree that the flight to Macau was a mere "showing the flag when there is sometime still". I also think TAP used that flight to bring back some portuguese that were in Macau and left after China took it!!!! The reason why TAP routed the flight via BRU and BKK was like others said here to try to bring a slice of passangers from Europe to BKK but that never had any chance. TAP in the past also had some really stranges places to fly. I remember that in 1961 ( again the same type of aproach... ) TAP started a route from LIS to GOA, Portuguese India just a few months before India invaded those small tiny little places, there was a stop at Beirut and Damascus - now some people can ask why both places???? They are so close!!!! - well the syrians said if TAP planes would not stop at least a few times each months Syria would not allow TAP planes to overfly their air space!
In 1989 TAP was flying a direct flight from LIS to LAX with L1011-500 and that was stopped too a little latter.
I think after the revolution in 1974 TAP was trying to find herself in the civil aviation market, TAP lost Africa and needed to find new markets and that period I think ended after TAP dropping Macau! Now TAP has a great network and that's good!
regards


User currently offlineETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 2078 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2168 times:

The route was planned to operate LIS-MUC-MFM, but LH objected to the MUC traffic rights, so operations commenced via BRU.

User currently offlineLPLAspotter From Portugal, joined Jan 2005, 682 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

Quoting CV990 (Reply 14):
In 1989 TAP was flying a direct flight from LIS to LAX with L1011-500 and that was stopped too a little latter.

Took that flight twice both ways. always full to LAX but coming back it was EMPTY. I had the whole rear section to myself. Great for sleeping, bad for TAP. Oh, by the way it was LAX-TER-LIS. I got off in TER

LPLAspotter



Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
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