Airlinespotter From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 160 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6135 times:
Will US ever consisder Asia in the near future? and if the do which country they will fly to? I realized that all their long-range, widebody A/C are being used, but are they getting more A333-200 and B787 anytime soon? I think Philadelphia and Phoenix are great hubs for the initial service to Asia. What do you'll e.neters think? Thanks for any input.
PHXinterrupted From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 474 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6112 times:
As part of the merger financing, Airbus made them a $250 million loan so that they would buy the 350, so you don't have to worry about them buying the 787.
PanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 10 Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6059 times:
There are two problems with getting routes to Asia: (1) Permission, and (2) slots at certain airports.
It seems to me that everytime a route is announced here at a.net, there are several airlines competing for that route - AA serving CAN (I think), CO hoping for more China routes, UA and NW entrenched but fighting for market share. For another competitor such as US, it would make it that much harder.
Is NRT the only slot restricted airport in terms of planes? I know airlines need permission for slots there. What about other Asian airports?
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
Supa7e7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6027 times:
LAS-PEK, LAS-PVG, LAS-TPE, LAS-ICN, LAS-BKK come to mind. LAS-NGO, LAS-KIX also.
Around 2010 the US-China traffic will be pumped up beyond all recognition. Coindidentally, US's A350s will be arriving. PHL will be the Europe hub and LAS could be the Asian.
Vega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5947 times:
Quoting Supa7e7 (Reply 3): LAS-PEK, LAS-PVG, LAS-TPE, LAS-ICN, LAS-BKK come to mind. LAS-NGO, LAS-KIX also
Are you serious?
Quoting Supa7e7 (Reply 3): Around 2010 the US-China traffic will be pumped up beyond all recognition. Coindidentally, US's A350s will be arriving. PHL will be the Europe hub and LAS could be the Asian
We don't really know what Parker, etal. are strategizing regarding the Far East, or Europe for that matter. If they really felt the Asian market was an opportunity not to be missed, they could lease the appropriate aircraft and start service well before the 350, or if not available, the fallback 787 arrives.
UnitedTristar From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1240 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5917 times:
Quoting Supa7e7 (Reply 3): LAS-PEK, LAS-PVG, LAS-TPE, LAS-ICN, LAS-BKK come to mind. LAS-NGO, LAS-KIX also.
Well just a few problems with these routes. PEK/PVG are very difficult to get rights to fly to. TPE and ICN are VERY low margin. KIX is a maybe...but would be difficult. NGO cannot really support an airline with out a Toyota contract from the states. AA pulled there services after they lost the RFP for Toyota and I have herd rumors that NW will be going to 4x weekly on NGO. NRT or HKG are the best bets if they are trying to fly from LAS. However their best bet for new Asia service is from PHL. PHL desperately needs NRT service. With star they could make very good downline connections. I have thought for years that UA should be operating this service. Feeding with O&D and a fair amount of UA passengers off codeshare flights from destinations where UA does not serve. Anyhow just my two cents.
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5898 times:
Quoting Supa7e7 (Reply 3): PHL will be the Europe hub and LAS could be the Asian.
Phoenix would get service long before LAS, and I would expect PHL to get some even before PHX.
I would expect them to foray into NRT if they can get slots... but probably not anywhere else right away.
The 350 will be perfect for these routes when they're ready.
Cory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6 Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5882 times:
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5867 times:
The new US will have A350s that are certainly capable of flying transpacific routes out of not only PHX or LAX, but also out of PHL. PHX or LAS could serve as trans-pacific gateways, or even a PHL-NRT flight is a possibility, so it could happen. If and when the new US will enter the Pacific market is another story - an open skies policy has not been embraced in the pacific region, so route authorities will be hard to obtain and it will take time, there is a good amount of risk associated with entering the longhaul transpacific marketplace due to the long routes and equipment required (DL did not have much luck with the Pacific for example), and LAS and PHX- which could be interesting as pacific gateway cities from a geographic point of view - are more lesiure oriented cities and may not generate enough O/D traffic or premium traffic to make the services interesting financially. Although many people from Asia are fascinated with Las Vegas and gambling, running flights from Las Vegas to Asian destinations has considerable risk.
Short answer, maybe, but its probably far too soon to tell if US will look to add routes accross the Pacific - Pacific services may simply be handled by STAR alliance partner UA.
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5865 times:
Philadelphia's catchment reaches to Baltimore, and Philly is the 4th largest metro in the United States.
It could easily support NRT service, and UA was going to fly it after the US acquisition.
UnitedTristar From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1240 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5870 times:
Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 7): This is true.....but does the presence of EWR <2 hours away with a CO nonstop to NRT influence this fact?
Yea but does JFK's large Asian flight presence change EWR's flights? Not really. My bets on US's new Asia service in no particular order:
PHL NRT
PHL HKG
BOS NRT
PHX NRT
PHX HKG
-m
Welcome aboard United Airlines L1011 Friendship Service to Osaka!
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5862 times:
I dunno about PHX-HKG, but the power of the UA and ANA hubs at NRT make all that NRT service feasible, in my mind.
UnitedTristar From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1240 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5825 times:
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 11): PHL-HKG sits at only a "maybe" with me
Well with the high demand of east coast passengers wanting to bypass the west coast US shouldnt have too much of a hard time. They have a Power house hub in PHL they shouldnt have too many troubles. Not to mention they could probably code on UA SIN and SGN flights beyond.
-m
Welcome aboard United Airlines L1011 Friendship Service to Osaka!
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5795 times:
They certainly have a lot of flexibility... I can't wait to see what happens.
I would think PHX-NRT and PHL-NRT are almost foregone conclusions. They have the rights, they just need slots.
Airlinespotter From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 160 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5743 times:
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5651 times:
It is... but the O/D power of PHL is significantly greater and most of the connections via CLT can also be made via PHL.
Malaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3183 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5609 times:
Centrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3597 posts, RR: 21 Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5570 times:
Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 5): NGO cannot really support an airline with out a Toyota contract from the states. AA pulled there services after they lost the RFP for Toyota and I have herd rumors that NW will be going to 4x weekly on NGO.
Hmmm... I have heard that too. But for some reason it doesn't add up. "NGO cannot really support an airline without a Toyota Contract from the states." I didn't realize that the 10th most economically strong region in the world depended so heavily on Toyota.
Quote: Chubu is home to the headquarters and production plants of several vehicle manufacturing corporations that are active on a global scale, such as Toyota Motor Corporation, Honda Motor, Mitsubishi Motors Corporation, Suzuki Motor Corporation and Yamaha Motor, producing 5.27 million motor vehicles (9.44% of the world market in 2001) and 1.55 million motorcycles (8.13% of the world market in 2000).
...6,000 local automobile parts manufacturers' production plants, including Denso Corporation, Toyota Industries Corporation, Aisin Seiki and Toyoda Gosei, are all centrally located in the three prefectures of Aichi, Shizuoka and Mie.
Japan's biggest aerospace enterprises, such as Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Kawasaki Heavy Industries and a number of associated enterprises are located in Chubu.
We also are home to Epson, Seiko, Hitachi Advanced Technologies, and a host of other IT companies and developers.
What about the European market. We have daily NGO-FRA and NGO-CDG. Soon we are getting 4x week NGO-HEL. Austrian has also stated interest in serving NGO. Do they survive with Toyota Contracts?
NH planning NGO-SEA (a rare move for them) for next year to support Boeing/Mitsubishi/Fuji/Kawasaki with 777, 787 and 737 parts production and engineering.
If US were to start flying to NGO, of course it would be a challenge for them though. Their destinations PHL, PHX and LAS are not big for industry which is why business people come here. They could get NRT but very difficult until the new runway opens (in the next 30 years). ICN would be an easy one as it has low landing fees, very open right now and looking for more carriers. In the next 10 years I think we will see Asia start looking like the European market today. Prices will drop due to increased competition. But...US will have huge hurdles. They have limited experience, A/C and would not only be going up against US carries already in Asia but Asian carries that will be wanting to expand in North America. It goes both ways.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
Cltguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 596 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5420 times:
As far as CLT is concerned there are about 75 Japanese company's with operations in the Charlotte area so Tokyo is a good candidate.
Ballsdeep From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 56 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5309 times:
When is US Airways taking the delivery if the A330's and are the 200 or 300 version?
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5298 times:
Quoting Ballsdeep (Reply 20): When is US Airways taking the delivery if the A330's and are the 200 or 300 version?
Here's the thing... nobody is exactly sure.
The upcoming frames were A330-200s due for 2007.
What's unclear is if the order for the A350 replaces these frames, or supplements them.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5282 times:
Quoting Gigneil (Reply 22): The upcoming frames were A330-200s due for 2007.
Wasn't that order just straight canceled?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5269 times:
Well, no. I don't think so.
"Answer not so clear"
N
25 SonOfACaptain: The A332's will start delivery in 2009. They were not cancelled, just delayed. US is the launch customer for the A350, so they will come in Airbus is
26 Gigneil: Hmm? What? The A330-200 is a popular variant in service with airlines around the world since 1996. N
27 SonOfACaptain: Haha, thanks for catching that. I mean't the A350. -SOAC
28 Karan69: What i would like to see is the extention of their current PHL-MAN services to BOM. They could do this when the defferred A330-200s come online. It wo
29 Malaysia: Then it will be CLT-NRT-VTE, freaky! I wonder how Thai would feel, but can the runway handle a big jet from a NRT arrival
30 John: The A332 order was NOT canceled. A total of 10 examples should start arriving in 2008. They are supposed to replace the 762s.
31 A330323X: It's quite clear. There's an order for 10x A330-200 for delivery in 2009-10. There's another order for 20x A350-800 for delivery in 2011-13. (There a
32 Kkfla737: Didn't HP plan service to Asia about 10-15 years ago only to scrap it at the last minute? I vaguely remember talk that they were going to fly to Nagoy
33 BigGSFO: They did....errr..HP did. They served PHX-HNL-NGO with a leased 747 in the 90's IIRC. As you can imagine, it didn't last very long.[Edited 2005-10-29
34 Dutchjet: As I understand it, US still has the A332s on order, and delivery has been pushed back......the timeframe is still a bit unclear, but it now seems tha
35 IMac7477: Doesn't US already use a lot of A333s to MUC(edit)? I understand the AMS reasoning completely, though. With a lot of us agreeing that PHL needs some
36 UnitedTristar: sorry to be ignorant...but whats MUN? -m
37 IMac7477: i'm sorry...i meant MUC...thanks for catching that.
38 UnitedTristar: oh ok cool...makes since...I thought I was missing something...it wouldnt supprise me...I am a blond after all! -m
39 BigGSFO: I would imagine IAD would get Asian service before PHL. Does ANA still operate IAD-NRT? I am actually surprised UA doesn't fly IAD-NRT. The first Asi
40 UnitedTristar: Yes ANA dose still fly IADNRT. They mostly do it for high margin diplamatic traffic. They are able to pick up the incramental O&D as well. If another
41 BigGSFO: Thanks UnitedTristar. I would assume UA code shares.
42 IMac7477: I don't think that it's so clear cut that the new US would start Asia servire--if they start it at all--first from Phoenix...I realize that their new
43 Flyboyaz: Very true but a PHX flight would most likely have a lot of connections from other places anywhere in the system. I see alot of people connecting to A
44 IMac7477: I think it would be awesome and great for PHX to get flights to Asia...but as I said, the problem is not connecting traffic, it's O&D.
45 Ballsdeep: What kind of O&D numbers would they need to see for a PHX-NRT or PHX-HKG Flight to be profitable or at least break even?
46 Laxtwin: I think that Phoenix will be the west bound hub much like Philadelphia is the east bound. The majority of transpacific flights will be from PHX, which
47 Dutchjet: HP would hope that atleast 50% of the traffic on the routes would be O&D traffic as, in general, O&D traffic commands higher fares than connecting se
48 BigGSFO: Yes I am sure you are right. However there are currently many options to key destinations in Asia that bypass the West Coast: via NYC, Chicago, Washi
49 BigGSFO: Very true. But I read on A.net (so it's credibility is suspect) that international passengers to LAS are higher yield than domestic passengers. Is th
50 Dutchjet: Are international pax heading to LAS higher yeild than domestic pax? Not really - most leisure pax worldwide are travelling on cheap fares and many l
51 Vega: Here are the 2002 Demographics for Asian Americans: as a percentage of population for an area: Honolulu, HI 46.0 % San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose, CA
52 A330323X: Again, the timetable's not at all unclear. 5x A332 in 2009, 5x A332 in 2010, 4x A358 in 2011, 8x A358 in 2012, 8x A358 in 2013. The A332s, now schedu
53 Vega: Is it a poor peak season performer, or just winter? When I flew (SFO)-PHL-AMS in July, the flight was just about full in the rear and about 2/3 full
54 Dutchjet: Thanks for the very clear update - while I did know an approximate time frame, I was not aware of the exact delivery schedules. AMS is a tough market
55 A330323X: Well, it does perform well enough in the summer, though still much weaker than the other year-round destinations. The problem making it seasonal is t
56 IMac7477: haha although geographically that's not unfeasible (is that a word?)...although it would definitely run into problems from ATL...but that would be qu
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 160 posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, 
From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, 
From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3597 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
