Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Tragic Flights' #s (Do Airlines Remove Them...?)  
User currently offlineVio From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1446 posts, RR: 10
Posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7038 times:

Hi,

Maybe the title of this topic is a bit misleading. What I mean by it is what happens to the flight number that happened to be in a tragic mishap. For example after Air France Flight 8969 was hijacked in 1994 and a few people lost their life, AF decided not to use that number anymore for their flights. According to wikipedia, AF changed the number to 3543 and 7667.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_8969

What about other airlines that were unfortunate to loose an aircraft / life of passengers on a specific flight, do they remove the flight number completely?

Thanks,

Vio


Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN908AW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 943 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7032 times:

DL and AA both removed 191 from their list because flight 191 crashed on both of those airlines. AA it was a DC-10 in ORD and everybody onboard perished. Don't recall the DL crash but I think it was in DFW...


'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7023 times:

Most likely for a while. I believe I remember hearing that UAL and AA were renumbering the flights that were used on 9/11. I would be interested to see if those numbers are back in the system.


"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3129 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6970 times:

As far as i know the new CO EWR-CGN is CO 111 which was Swissairs flight number... and i understand its a different airline and quite some time later... but unlike most flight numbers, #111 is pretty memorable, as well as #800 which i dont think many airlines use.

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineBrokenrecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6966 times:

Checked on united.com, and United 93 does not exist today.

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26812 posts, RR: 75
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6956 times:

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 2):
I believe I remember hearing that UAL and AA were renumbering the flights that were used on 9/11. I would be interested to see if those numbers are back in the system.

I really doubt those will ever be back.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7428 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6949 times:

Most of Airlines change the number of a flight that crashed, though AF358 remain CDG-YYZ, even after the crash of F-GLZQ, but it didn't end "tragically" as you say in your topic (except for this poor A340...)

Swissair changed the flight number of their JFK-GVA after the crash of SR111 in Sept.1998. It became SR101 if I remember well, and they even changed the aircraft type on that line, at least during a few weeks following the crash.

On March 5 1968, AF lost a B707 (F-BLCJ) approaching PTP, in Guadeloupe, the last enroute stop of flight AF212 SCL-UIO-CCS-PTP-ORY.

AF didn't change the flight number of this line.

Sadly, a year and a half later on dec.3rd 1969, AF lost another B707 (F-BHSZ). The plane crashed into the ocean a few minutes after taking off from CCS ... operating AF212 to PTP and ORY... The flight originated SCL and UIO ... Sad


User currently offlineLegendDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6794 times:

Yup, TWA doesn't use flight 800 anymore either.

User currently offlineNavairjax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6780 times:

The practice of retiring flight numbers after an accident was not a common practice until sometime in the 1970s.

User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6753 times:

Quoting LegendDC9 (Reply 7):
Yup, TWA doesn't use flight 800 anymore either.

Lol, good guess!!!!!!

Retiring flight numbers is a good idea because you here about XY123 flight crash and you are scheduled to fly that, you would be scared.

The AA and UA flight #'s from 9/11 will most likely never come back.

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3768 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6712 times:

Back when TWA was around, I think they changed Flt 800 to Flt 801.


PHX based
User currently offlineFxra From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6611 times:

According to a bar trivia game (the most accurate source of facts known to man) i was playing, the flight numbers are never used again... I think the question was something like "What are the odds of boarding a flight with the same flight number as a previsouly crashed flight?" The answer was zero, (i assumed they meant the entire ident such DL123 or UA456)...

so there you have the definitive answer.

jd



Visualize Whirled Peas
User currently offlineTWAAF9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6611 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 10):
Back when TWA was around, I think they changed Flt 800 to Flt 801.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe TW800 (JFK-CDG) was changed to TW924 and TW801 (CDG-JFK) was changed to TW925.

Flew both TW924/TW925 my sophomore year of college. First widebody and international experience of my life.



Ahh, the power of SABRE...
User currently offlineCaptinTuT From United States of America, joined May 2005, 346 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6600 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

There was EgyptAir Flight 990 that was crashed over the Atlantic ocean short after departing from JFK is changed now to 986.

Regards
TuT



Aircraft Flown: B747-B777-B737-B767-B757-A300-A318-A319-A320-A321-A330-A340-MD80-MD90-CRJ600-CRJ900-E190
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6576 times:

Interestingly, Air NZ didn't change the codeshare flight number of the UA BOS-LAX flight that crashed on 9/11 - it remains NZ9051.

Eerily similar to NZ(TE)901, which crashed in Antarctica in 1979 (and Air NZ subsidiary Freedom Air has a flight SJ901!)



-
User currently offlineAA54Heavy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6567 times:

Quoting Fxra (Reply 11):
"What are the odds of boarding a flight with the same flight number as a previsouly crashed flight?" The answer was zero, (i assumed they meant the entire ident such DL123 or UA456)...

so there you have the definitive answer.

Not entirely true. IIRC, American Flight #1 crashed into Jamaica Bay just off from JFK back in the later 50s or early 60s.....American Flight #1 still exists today as a LAX-JFK flight (or vice versa).......but I'll bet it depends on how recent, or tragic, the event was.......

In fact, there reason I remember this is because of a man who lost his parnts on Flight #1 and then lost his brother (?) on something like American flight 191.....and he received the same form letter from the latter as he did from the one where his parents died (the letter was a plea to not sue the airline I think)....please correct me if I'm wrong



Roger that, turning to our "other" left
User currently offlineGman3 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 290 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6556 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 3):
As far as i know the new CO EWR-CGN is CO 111 which was Swissairs flight number... and i understand its a different airline and quite some time later... but unlike most flight numbers, #111 is pretty memorable, as well as #800 which i dont think many airlines use.

United still uses flt 800. It is our NRT-JFK flight.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 2):
Most likely for a while. I believe I remember hearing that UAL and AA were renumbering the flights that were used on 9/11. I would be interested to see if those numbers are back in the system.

Those flight numbers will not be used again.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13754 posts, RR: 61
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6420 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Individual airlines retire the flight numbers - not industrywide. So even though TW800 was a terrible tragedy, the number 800 was only retired from use by what was then TWA.

Just like how Alaska Airlines retired flight number 261 from use after the crash in January of 2000, but other airlines freely use this number still.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineBDKLEZ From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 1735 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6401 times:

BD092 still operates LHR-BFS.

This one crashed into the embankment on the M1 only a few hundered metres from the runway at EMA after #2 engine shut-down and #1 engine fail in the crash which killed about 50 people in the winter of 1989 if I remember correctly. A sad day.



Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13548 posts, RR: 100
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 6346 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Ever since the Korean air lines incident, I haven't seen a flight 007.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineCody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 6289 times:

Eastern Airlines flight 401 from JFK-MIA crashed into the Everglades in 1972, but Eastern continued to use that flight number on the same route all the way up until 1988. I thought that was especially strange considering the fact that four books and two movies were made about the crash and the "incredible aftermath."

User currently offlineGman3 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 290 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5982 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 19):
Ever since the Korean air lines incident, I haven't seen a flight 007.

Lightsaber

United uses it JFK-SFO


User currently offlineNewSky From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5678 times:

BA operate flight #7 too, LHR-NRT

User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4946 times:

BA don't use 93/193 (IIRC) any more because it had terrorism connotations. I think it was stopped/turned back several times due to intelligence suggesting it was a threat.


No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineJFK998 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4871 times:

You are correct on that CaptainTuT, however Egypt Air did use the flight number MS990 flight for a few months after the crash had taken place, I know this for a fact because I used to fly them to Cairo and I used them even after the crash had occurred, and it still was the same flight number. After 9/11 MS withdrew from LAX and now only provides service from JFK to Cairo. Once they withdrew from LAX, MS changed their flight from MS990 to MS986.

25 PillowTester : Does any airline operate a flight 103?
26 RootsAir : No it changed to SR 115...the worst is that the GVA-JFK flight was 114 114+115= 229.... the number of victimes in the flight! wonder if it was done o
27 RootsAir : Well inthis case emergency number should change and not be 911 cause it could stand for 9 / 11
28 L1011Lover : As Navairjax mentioned before, the practice of changing flight numbers after an accident was not common until late in the 70´s! The reason is the med
29 Boysteve : What would happen if a Far Eastern airline were to lose its flight number 8? Seriously though I don't see the need to re-number. Its just a way to ma
30 StevenUhl777 : 11 and 77 will never be used by AA again, and 93 and 175 will never be used by United again. Even more so, since these are the 9/11 flight numbers. O
31 Gman3 : United ORD-LAX
32 DeltaGator : Virgin uses it on their LHR-LAX route and refers to it with the leading zeros. You are correct. I'm not really sure what I was thinking when I wrote
33 Post contains images RicardoFG : LOL!
34 Tsentsan : After the SQ006 crash in Dec 2000, the flight route was "renamed" SQ30/SQ29.
35 Speedbird2155 : BA093 is LHR-YYZ. As for BA193, I've been searching to see if there ever was such. The flight you are likely referring to is the IAD service which wa
36 Post contains images PanAm747 : According to David Grayson, in his book "Terror In The Skies", he says "A victim of the Chicago DC-10 crash had experienced a personal tragedy 17 yea
37 NZblue : Not quite a flight number, but still a numbers game, it might be interesting to point out that F9 skipped the registration N911FR in its sequence of t
38 Wagz : Frontier only skipped N911FR because that registration was already registered to a Fire/Rescue Helicopter. Ad N Number lookup reveals it to belong to
39 6thfreedom : Yes, Qantas operates QF103, MEL-LAX.
40 Post contains links Fbgdavidson : That was BA223 and BA222 which became BA293 and BA292. I fondly remember as I was originally scheduled to fly back on BA222 the day (2nd January 04)
41 Post contains images AirEMS : I think I saw CO 1713 a few years back at DIA Could be wrong... Here's a question if Airlines actually used the same accident Flt #'s would anyone oth
42 FlySSC : Guys, 9/11 or 911 may have a tragic connotation in the U.S but not in Europe as it doesn't "mean" anything ... : In Europe, dates are usualy mentionne
43 Clipper002 : Pan Am 103 was the only flight number retired by Pan Am following a crash of one of their flights. ( and there were plenty of them). Unfortunately PA1
44 Markdirk : TWA had a string of bad luck with their flight numbers #841/#843/#847, but kept using the numbers. It seems in their history the #84- series of flight
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Do Airlines Remove Side Panels During Matenece posted Tue Jun 12 2001 23:34:14 by Usair737-200
How Do Airlines Operate Ultra-Long-Haul Flights? posted Fri Jan 21 2005 21:29:21 by Ktachiya
Do Airlines Hold Flights For Celebrities? posted Mon Dec 8 2003 00:59:18 by 727LOVER
How Do Airlines Number Flights? posted Sun Sep 28 2003 02:17:53 by Ssides
Do Airlines Have Pilots Fly For Them For Free? posted Sat Jul 20 2002 18:25:59 by Cmchardyfl
Why Do Airlines Offer Such Odd Routings posted Sat Nov 4 2006 07:17:32 by RJpieces
US Airways NON Response...How Do I Get To Them? posted Tue Aug 8 2006 14:04:40 by Cityguy
What Do Airlines Look For In New Pilots? posted Fri Aug 4 2006 16:18:13 by BowflexBrennan
How Do Airlines Choose A Used Airplane? posted Tue Aug 1 2006 07:39:49 by Jlbmedia
Why Do Airlines Still Use The 732 posted Tue Jul 25 2006 19:12:07 by Curious