Xms3200 From Sweden, joined Apr 2005, 101 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 67286 times:
On Mar. 25th 1977, two 747's crashed into each other in
Tenerife killing approx. 583 people. I was wondering if the Pan Am pilots are still living, or even the cabin crew. The Pan Am captain's name was Victor Grubbs.
Iberiadc852 From Spain, joined May 2005, 227 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 67230 times:
The co-pilot is still living. The pilot (Victor Grubbs) and the flight engineer have already died. In www.tenerifecrash.com there is a lot of information about all that. In case you don't find it in the proper webpage you will find it in the video they sell in it The editor is the co-pilot himself, Robert Bragg.
variety is the spice of life; that's what made the "old times" so good
Aa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3338 posts, RR: 8 Reply 3, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 67197 times:
One flight attendant from the flight was featured in a magazine of some sort. She threw fifty some passengers out of a door on a broken arm and assisted relief crews before going to a hospital herself.
Oddly enough, shortly before Christmas of 1988, a college came to her and asked her to switch trips. She had to refuse because of a family engagement. Turns out the trip included flight 103 as a segment. Amazing she averted death on-duty twice in a few years.
Iberiadc852 From Spain, joined May 2005, 227 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 67169 times:
In that webpage there is a not very well know photo of the two planes parked at Tenerife's ramp less than an hour before the crash. It is slightly different version of a better known one, which has already been published here, but I think this one is better. Besides, in this one you can also see at the bottom right of the photo a SATA DC-8 backtracking in the same way the two 747 did, which was one of the last airplanes that took off before the crash, and which was parked just in front of the two Boeings.
variety is the spice of life; that's what made the "old times" so good
Parisien From France, joined Dec 2000, 819 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 67150 times:
saw a documentary of it on a french tv recently (cant remember the channel though). If that was the video, it was very interesting. There were so many "if only"s as I guess common to catastrophic events. The salient if onlys I remember from the film: no missing pax for KL so that it could have left on time (ealier); enough space for PA to move past KL to reach the runway etc. etc. the fog moved in very fast it seems....
Fanofjets From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1898 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 66992 times:
Thanks for the Web site - some interesting stuff here. However, not to be picky, but several of the crash and aftermat pictures are of the LH 747-130 that crashed on takeoff in Nairobi, Kenya, on November 20, 1974:
KensukeAida From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 217 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 66432 times:
These transcripts are clearly very rough drafts that were just transcribed from an audio souce. So, if it puts Mr. Briggs in a false light it's really not his fault. I doubt any one of us could do a flawless interview.
NAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9165 posts, RR: 37 Reply 16, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 66378 times:
Quoting KensukeAida (Reply 15): These transcripts are clearly very rough drafts that were just transcribed from an audio souce.
I'm sure that's absolutely right. Most of us would sound pretty incoherent if someone just taped our own firsthand descriptions of something. Personally I'm glad they left it that way, rather than editing and 'sanitising' it so it lost most of its impact and meaning.
Iberiad, thanks for posting the link, it is very informative. I knew the basic cause of the accident - the KLM pilot mistaking his ATC clearance for takeoff clearance - but had never understood before how that could have happened, because procedures (and ATC phrasing) are usually so codified and specific. Now that I understand the time pressures that everyone was under - an overcrowded airport, everyone clamouring to get away, the fog coming down - it's easier to understand. Though no less tragic.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
PipoA380 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1591 posts, RR: 52 Reply 17, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 65734 times:
I was going through the images of the webpage, and this image here got me thinkin'. Look at the tail on the photo, doesn't it look a lot like a LH tail? The crash was between a KLM and a Pan Am wasn't it?
It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
Viscount630 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 223 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 65467 times:
Quoting Aa757first (Reply 3): One flight attendant from the flight was featured in a magazine of some sort. She threw fifty some passengers out of a door on a broken arm and assisted relief crews before going to a hospital herself.
She (Dorothy Kelly?) is also featured in "Fasten Your Seat Belts", the excellent story of the history of Pan Ams cabin crews. Her description of the accident and what happened afterwards is not only very chilling, it's very moving. She should actually have been working on the upper deck, but an F/A in the lower deck First Class cabin asked to her swap. He, and all the passengers in that cabin, were killed in the collision.
Her actions during the tragedy were incredibly inspiring. In a famous picture of the aftermath, (used by "Time" I think - sorry I don't have a link) she can be seen tending to injured passengers (still unaware of her own broken arm) with the PA 747 still burning nearby. A real credit to her profession.
BHXFAOTIPYYC From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (7 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 65240 times:
Not quite to do with the Tenerife crash, but the LH one in NBO.
One of my good clients used to work for Rolls Royce (a/c engine division) at the time, and he had a colleague on that flight. He said that the guy used to count the number of seconds from the moment the plane began its take-off roll to airborne as habit, and this particular day in NBO, he just kept on counting to the point where he knew their was a problem.
LH informed his wife that he had died, so a couple of days later when he regained consiouness in a NBO hospital, he called her. My client said that she was pretty histerical, as she thought he was calling her from "beyond the grave". He had, in fact, switched seats with someone on board.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
25 Mika: There are several pics there of a LH 747, most noticable from the blue cheatline on the fuselage. Kind of a bad mistake really to mix those pics up w
26 TheSorcerer: Was this incident at TFN or TFS? The Sorcerer
27 B727230: I would say a large majority of the photos are from the Lufthansa disaster. There are lots of duplicates as well. Even the photo on the first page sho
28 Daron4000: That's really interesting! Do you know her name or any of the routes she usually flies b/c that would be cool to be on a flight with her.
29 Dcrusafon: I met Robert Bragg last year in Tenerife Norte (TFN) He came to thanks the hospital and the local government for all the help they received the day of
30 Navigator: TFS was not built in 1977. The reason they built TFS was among other things this crash at Tenerife Los Rodeos Airport, now TFN. The bad safety reputa
31 Panamair: Dorothy Kelly continued to fly for Pan Am after Tenerife and was based out of LHR by the time Pan Am started failing in the early '90s. I'm not certa
32 RDYNYC: Yea, Dorothy Kelly! I flew with her when I was based in LHR with Pan Am. Didn't know if I should state her name here on "Airliners". If you'd like to
33 ACEregular: I was just wondering before this accident, when Tenerife South was not in existance what was the airport code for Los Rodeos, as being the only airpor
34 Viscount630: It was TCI (as in Tenerife, Canary Islands)
35 ACEregular: I always thought TCI was the collective code for Tenerife like LON is London and NYC is New York, thanks
36 Orion737: Can anyone tell me the name of the lady who was the tour representative who diembarked at Tenerife instead of staying on the plane and survived? Is sh
37 Iberiadc852: Actually, at that time, TFS runway was finished, as the works had started in the first seventies. The terminal building was not built, because of sev
38 Ilovenz: I remember seeing Bob Bragg and Dorothy Kelley being interviewed in 1997 for Survival in the Sky, a four-part documentary on airliner safety. I rememb
39 Iberiadc852: In the official accident reports they say the age of the crew members; I am almost sure captain Grubbs was 57 and captain Van Zanten 50 or 51. But I