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Infrared Deicing  
User currently offlineFaroeFlyer From Faroe Islands, joined Aug 2005, 87 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3979 times:

First in Europe to use infrared deicing

Together with Radiant and Oslo Lufthavn AS, which owns and runs Oslo Airport, SGS Norway will test out the use of infrared heat waves to deice aircraft.

Aircraft deiced by this method taxi through a specially built hangar in which snow and ice are removed by heat waves. Infrared deicing reduces runoff of the chemical glycol by around 70%.


Never heard of this before. Is this new or has it been in use for a while?


Cast your dancing spell my way...
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3961 times:

Quoting FaroeFlyer (Thread starter):
Never heard of this before. Is this new or has it been in use for a while?

It's been used at EWR for quite a while.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3939 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 1):
It's been used at EWR for quite a while.

Yea, at least 3 years. I went through EWR in 2002 and had IR deiceing.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21654 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3895 times:

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 1):
It's been used at EWR for quite a while.

Where do they do this at EWR? I assume that they need some sort of infrastructure to do it.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3879 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Where do they do this at EWR? I assume that they need some sort of infrastructure to do it.

Well, I flew on Continental and it was near their hangar. You can see it from the Continental Concourse. It looks like an open ended hangar.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2689 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3871 times:

Another note about the CO deicing structure @ EWR: While I'm not positive, I think that since they paid for its construction, they are the only ones that use it. It's much faster than chemical deicing and costs less (the deicing fluid costs more per gallon than Jet-A).

User currently offlineFaroeFlyer From Faroe Islands, joined Aug 2005, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3858 times:

Interesting. Wonder why no one else has tried this in Northern Europe until now. We do get alot of snow in the winters.

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 5):
Another note about the CO deicing structure @ EWR: While I'm not positive, I think that since they paid for its construction, they are the only ones that use it.

It seems like the one at OSL will be available for all.

Is it faster or slower than normal deicing? Wondering about a possible traffic jam.



Cast your dancing spell my way...
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8292 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3809 times:

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 5):
(the deicing fluid costs more per gallon than Jet-A).

Sure does. It's up around 7 or 8 bucks a gallon.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3804 times:

Quoting FaroeFlyer (Thread starter):
Never heard of this before. Is this new or has it been in use for a while?

A few years back I had a medevac lear that got caught in snow at King Salmon Alaska. Since it was a military medevac, they made available one of the F-15 alert barns that was equiped with IR de-icing for us. So after the pt got loaded they pulled it into the barn, and the plane was clean very very quickly.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

Any Pictures available on the De-icing in question in progress.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineLongbowPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 577 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3743 times:
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There may also be a inherint amount of more risk doing it IR vs. Glycol. At least there might have been. That might be why it is slow to catch on.

As for De/Anti-Icing, that was my favorite time of year working in the airlines. I would get up in the Cherry Picker for 8 hours straight and hose the aircraft down. Talk about a very responsible job, you are responsible for the safe removal of all ice and snow. The passengers look out of their windows and gawk at you, hoping you are are doing it right. So .....


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16878 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3726 times:

I went through it on a CO 737-900 on a trip to CUN back in January '02, I know there's a video of it's operation somewhere.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineFlypdx From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 636 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3726 times:


From cruisinaltitude.com


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16878 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3723 times:

There's a picture of the Newark Airport Rediant Energy De-icer on their home page with a CO 757 inside.

http://www.radiantenergycorp.com/

The Port Authority is going to build one at JFK,

http://www.panynj.gov/AboutthePortAu...ases/PressRelease/index.php?id=544

[Edited 2005-10-31 06:00:00]


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3682 times:

The Airports should install a few of these in series at the end of the taxiway for departure runways. The planes would all travel through the device before departure...kind of like a pizza oven. In the summer the structure provides shade for the aircraft waiting for departure...when onboard temperature control is already being strained to the limit.

User currently offlineMika From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 2881 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3638 times:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 14):
...kind of like a pizza oven.

Nice analogy. Now the homer simpson part of me wishes that planes actually were made of pizza dough and topping!  drool 


User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3598 times:

It's not new - the concept has been kicking around for years, and Oslo first became involved in 1999. The project ran into trouble in 2001 and was suspended.

Radiant has tried hard to get this concept accepted but it's been an uphill struggle and even now there's only a handful of airports which have completed and actually use the equipment.


User currently offlineYhz78 From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3560 times:

I've heard that even with the IR hangar deicing you still need a quick wash of type 1 once you get out just to make sure no loose snow or ice are caught up in the flaps and such. Anybody know for sure wether this is the case?


Canada Rocks! From the west coast to the best coast!
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3549 times:

The info on the website of the manufacturer of this system still says you need to apply de-icing fluid, but 90% less. Apparently some would still be be applied so that the a/c can keep off falling snow/freezing rain from adhering to an a/c after treatment. It does seem to be a brilliant idea, especially as to the enviormental risk reductions and the costs of the deicing fluid. It does seem to me that an a/c would have to be carefully inspected and some traditional deicing may be done to make sure all critical surfaces are throughly and properly treated and the a/c safe.

User currently offlineAKelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2193 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3504 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9):
Any Pictures available on the De-icing in question in progress.

http://www.radiantenergycorp.com/images/index_03.jpg


User currently offlineLongbowPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 577 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3398 times:
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Quoting Yhz78 (Reply 17):
I've heard that even with the IR hangar deicing you still need a quick wash of type 1 once you get out just to make sure no loose snow or ice are caught up in the flaps and such. Anybody know for sure wether this is the case?

The quick splash isn't so much for the removal, but that is where ANTI-Icing comes into play. Once it is removed you have to have a method to keep it off, especially if you are NOT taking off right of way. You can use TYPE 1 which is a generic De-Icing flued with Anti-Ice ability, but if it is snowing really bad, than you need TYPE 4 which is a green slimy substance. You apply it after using TYPE 1 to de-ice, because TYPE 4 is anti-ice only.


User currently offlineSirOmega From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3386 times:

Do a/c go through this right before takeoff (with pax inside?) or is it towed into the quasi-hangar and then taken to the gate?

User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5196 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3377 times:

The manufacturer indicates that it has taken out some additional loans as of October 15, in order to complete construction at JFK and Oslo. They claim that they are pouring foundation at JFK and will then begin building the building. They claim to be planning completion for winter season. Better hurry up! Perhaps the one big enough for a 747-300 posed some greater problems than they had anticipated...

User currently offline777WT From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 877 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3359 times:

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 21):
Do a/c go through this right before takeoff (with pax inside?) or is it towed into the quasi-hangar and then taken to the gate?

It is done with pax inside after departure from the gate, because there's a holdover time limit once it completes deicing and in line for takeoff.


User currently offlineSLUAviator From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 357 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3350 times:

Quoting LongbowPilot (Reply 20):
TYPE 1 which is a generic De-Icing flued with Anti-Ice ability

TYPE 1 is strictly for deicing. There is no anti-ice quality to it mainly because it is diluted with water before it even goes into the trucks.


How are the planes sprayed with TYPE 4 when they are done? Do they have spray nozzles that cover the plane as it moves out of the building?



What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
25 FlyHoss : After leaving the IR hangar, the aircraft are ANTI-iced, if necessary, using conventional trucks with booms.
26 Post contains links and images HAWK21M : Looks great.Too bad the Climate out here won't require them. regds MEL
27 GBan : Deicing? Never heard of that. But I always wondered why they use such inefficient methods of filling fuel in many airports.
28 LongbowPilot : Ok, I will say you are highly incorrect sir. TYPE 1 does have Anti-Ice capability, because I have been through 5 seasons of de-icing. Holdover times
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