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CO And UA...another Merger Thread  
User currently offlineUAL777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1564 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8226 times:

After seeing UA's financial results for the 3rd quarter ($68 million dollar profit excluding non-cash reorganization costs). Do you think that the chances are greater of a CO/UA merger?

Further, what aspects of both companies would you like to see carried over?


It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
90 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3313 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8214 times:

That would be a spotters dream.....an airline that operates: 733,735,73G,738,739,319,320,752,753,762,763,764,777,744

No simplicity there, but hey, the routes are complementary.



.......
User currently offlineHunUtazo From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8177 times:

.........same folks.


dude
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8132 times:

I think this would be absurd.

We will see pigs fly before this happens
(Oh wait they already do: A380)

Seriusly, UA and CO's fleet is totatally incompatible, UA has high operating cost and CO is in good financiall shape, IMO CO doesnt need UA, they can expand on their own. I could see CO adquiring NW's assets after its liquidation (which seems more likely each day) CO is the most likely candidate to become a member of the Top 3, replacing DL or UA. They will be in the Battle with AA in a few years for the N 1 spot.


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8063 times:

Nothing seems to excited the A.net crowd more than a good merger thread.

IMO neither UA or CO need to be acquired, especially by one or the other. This doesn't make business or fiscal sense. Two different companies, two different cost structures, two different managements, etc. The route structures, although could be complimentary, is not enough to warrant a merger.


User currently offlineAirzim From Zimbabwe, joined Jun 2001, 1239 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8021 times:

There is only one way this is going to happen, if NW and DL merge. CO will be put in a position where it has no choice.

Put all the other factors about fleet and seniority issues aside, CO will have to merge with UA if anyone else teams up.

Given time, its looking more likely that this is going to happen eventually.


User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3768 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7987 times:

I would love to see a CO and UA merger, but I'll beleive it only when I see it!

I would like to see all of the A319/A320's go into the TED brand, leaving CO/UA with the Boeings:
B747-400 - PW
B777-200ER - PW and GE
B777-200 - PW
B767-400ER - GE
B767-300ER - PW
B767-300 - PW
B767-200ER - GE
B757-300 - RR
B757-200 - PW and RR
B737-900 - CFM
B737-800 - CFM
B737-700 - CFM
B737-500 - CFM
B737-300 - CFM

You would then have hubs at SFO, LAX, EWR, IAD, ORD, CLE and IAH!

What would CO do with ExpressJet, and what about UA and it's express carriers?

Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3313 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7972 times:

Quoting B742 (Reply 6):
You would then have hubs at SFO, LAX, EWR, IAD, ORD, CLE and IAH!

Don't forget DEN!



.......
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3129 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7923 times:

I think the best - if any - merger option for CO would be to merge with AS. Give it a west coast presence and expansion hubs for flights to Asia (SEA and ANC)

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7886 times:

Its not gonna happen.......do note that UA acutally made money in the quarter, a good sign, the huge loss was due to non-cash items resulting for the termination of leases and such. UA will try to fly out of bankruptcy and hopefully will succeed on its own.

User currently offlinePavlovsDog From Norway, joined Sep 2005, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7779 times:

I don't see what the whole fuss about fleet commonality is about about with such a theoretically large airline. A combined CO/UA would have one of the largest fleets of both 737's and 320-series. Certainly it would be nice if they had the exact same fleets but at this scale it is hardly a deciding factor.

It makes great business sense though. As an outsider I'd like to see it happen.


User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5209 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7761 times:

This won't happen. The resulting operating cost would be so great the combined carrier would implode.


Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2264 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7670 times:

Mergermania may not happen if all any of them have to do is wait to buy left overs from liquidation. It woulld be much cheaper.


I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineUAL777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1564 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7579 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
UA has high operating cost and CO is in good financiall shape, IMO CO doesnt need UA, they can expand on their own. I could see CO adquiring NW's assets after its liquidation (which seems more likely each day) CO is the most likely candidate to become a member of the Top 3, replacing DL or UA. They will be in the Battle with AA in a few years for the N 1 spot.

You are completely out of touch. CO battling with AA and replacing UA? NOT going to happen anytime soon.



It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7548 times:

Quoting HunUtazo (Reply 2):
.........same folks.

No. They aren't. No matter how many times you say it.

N


User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1653 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7548 times:

CO is fine on its own 2 more 777's on the way 787 ect Expanding DEL EZE CGN BRS PEK...787 will forgo the need for a NRT HUB...NRT will be for Local Traffic Only...

User currently offlineLetsgetwet From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7532 times:

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 13):
You are completely out of touch. CO battling with AA and replacing UA? NOT going to happen anytime soon.

"Bigger " has nothing to do with " Better"

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051031/dam033.html?.v=32

Looks like CO is already the "Best"


User currently offlineSquirrel83 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7519 times:

I would hate to see CO merg with UA.

For the eighth year in a row, Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL - News) outranked all of its U.S. competition in international Business Class service, according to results of a survey of Conde Nast Traveler readers published in the magazine's October 2005 edition.


That should explain it right there!


User currently offlinePavlovsDog From Norway, joined Sep 2005, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7282 times:

Quoting Squirrel83 (Reply 17):
would hate to see CO merg with UA.

For the eighth year in a row, Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL - News) outranked all of its U.S. competition in international Business Class service, according to results of a survey of Conde Nast Traveler readers published in the magazine's October 2005 edition.

That should explain it right there!

While you see United's perceived poor service as a burden, I see it as an opportunity.

Look at the markets where United is strong: Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Washington are, along with New York, the biggest and most lucrative markets for business travel in the US. If Continental could sucessfully establish their product and business culture they could win some very profitable customers and make a ton of money.

United will be priced very cheap when they emerge from bankrupcy. Good business is buying low. In my opinion if Continental can get the financing (Boeing and GE come to mind), they would be crazy to pass up an opportunity to buy UA.


User currently offlineSFORunner From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7220 times:

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 18):
United will be priced very cheap when they emerge from bankrupcy

Yes, and also saddled with a massive amount of debt. Buy the company = buy the debt and liabilities associated with it....


User currently offlineCo757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7218 times:

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 10):
I don't see what the whole fuss about fleet commonality is about about with such a theoretically large airline. A combined CO/UA would have one of the largest fleets of both 737's and 320-series.

If "IF" it happens Continental will be running the show, and all Airbus Aircraft will be parked. Continental has no Interest in Airbus, and parking those aircraft will not have a large impact on Operations in a merger. Continental would bring Retired 737-300/500 aircraft from the Dessert before they fly Airbuses.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
I could see CO adquiring NW's assets after its liquidation

Don't be fooled. Northwest isnt going away. They will be the straw that broke the camels back. Yes they are playing hardball right now with employees, But they were always the one to wear the pants. And I think in the long run they will have made there point, In Example they never matched other airlines sales(and everyone rescended) The mechanics went on Strike...And You know where they are. Don't bet on them Going away, They have a plan.


User currently offlineCo757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7144 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
CO is the most likely candidate to become a member of the Top 3, replacing DL or UA. They will be in the Battle with AA in a few years for the N 1 spot.

Continental Won't have to Battle, they have been on the Current of the river, Passing UA, DL, NW, And Don't Need to Aquire anyone to Survive.


User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7144 times:

Quoting COSPN (Reply 15):
CO is fine on its own

So why has gordon said numerous times that a ual and co merger would make a great airline????

Quoting Squirrel83 (Reply 17):
I would hate to see CO merge with UA.

you and all the other ual/co employees would hate it as well...so we at least agree on something

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 19):
Yes, and also saddled with a massive amount of debt. Buy the company = buy the debt and liabilities associated with it....

was that what texas intl was thinking back when frank was picking up the pieces of a broken airline?????

Quoting Co757 (Reply 20):
If "IF" it happens Continental will be running the show, and all Airbus Aircraft will be parked.

tell that to all the america west folks that thought they were going to be in the drivers seat on everything involved with the merger.......

Quoting Co757 (Reply 20):
Don't be fooled. Northwest isnt going away. They will be the straw that broke the camels back. Yes they are playing hardball right now with employees, But they were always the one to wear the pants. And I think in the long run they will have made there point, In Example they never matched other airlines sales(and everyone rescended)

ARE you for real....they rescinded every fare sale that the other instituted you idiot INCLUDING SOME CO FARE RAISES AS WELL
The mechanics went on Strike...And You know where they are. Don't bet on them Going away, They have a plan.[/quote]

yea doug has a plan.....wipe all the collective bargaining agreements out that will affect you eventually as if nwa can pay a non skilled worker like you for 8.00/hr then you can be sure that co will follow.......



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineB777a340fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 775 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6410 times:

IMHO, I would agree with most folks on this thread: a CO/UAL merger would never happen. There are many reasons for this, but the biggest to comes to mind is that no court on the land would agree such merger. With a CO/UAL merger, that would literally constitute a monopoly on an already struggling market. Furthermore, Continental and United Airlines belong to two different alliances, so I would foresee problems in that area as well. Happy flying!  airplane 

User currently offlinePavlovsDog From Norway, joined Sep 2005, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6405 times:

Quoting Co757 (Reply 20):
If "IF" it happens Continental will be running the show, and all Airbus Aircraft will be parked. Continental has no Interest in Airbus, and parking those aircraft will not have a large impact on Operations in a merger. Continental would bring Retired 737-300/500 aircraft from the Dessert before they fly Airbuses.

What are you suggesting Continental would do with all the Airbuses? We all know that Continental is very pro-Boeing but I can't see any way for CO/UA to quickly phase out the Airbus aircraft that makes any business sense. How many parked 737's do you think UA/CO have? They would be doing their shareholders a serious disservice if they were make an irrational fleet planning decision out of some anti-Airbus zeal.

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 19):
Yes, and also saddled with a massive amount of debt. Buy the company = buy the debt and liabilities associated with it....

Of course. United also still has significant assets too. They have $2.7 billion in cash and a frequent-flyer program with a negative value on their books which is worth billions to Continental.

The fact that United has become a very lean operation and even made an operating profit of $165 million last quarter makes UA very attractive if the price is right.


25 Post contains images Wdleiser : I thought it was a Whale ... I sort of see it your way.... as... UAL pilots would fly the Airbus' and CO piliots fly the Boeing short hauls. Why woul
26 STT757 : The new headquarters is in Arizona, that's who's in charge not the Virginia folks. If CO/UAL merge the headquarters would be Houston, with CO folks r
27 Drerx7 : Gordon was commenting on the fact that the route networks complement each other--that was it. If this ludacris merger occurred you'd see the headquart
28 PavlovsDog : Why on earth would Continental demolish a now lean airline that made an operating profit of $165 million in a 3rd quarter with high fuel costs? When
29 Indy : Will UA live long enough though to merge with anyone? Just saw a story on our local news website about the UA results for 3rd quarter. I'm sure it has
30 Post contains images Tornado82 : There's a thread about UA quarterly results, Indy. In it, you'll see that billion+ loss is on paper only, not effecting cash on hand. It has to do wit
31 Tsaord : speak of the devil. i was just in the gym last night at the hilton outside terminal 2. there was this guy who worked for united, i think he was a rap
32 Gigneil : That's right, they'd park the second largest fleet of A320s in the world... ...and cancel over half their schedule in the process. Brilliant. N
33 CTHEWORLD : What the he!! are you smoking??? CO is barely squeeking by, yes they are making money, but not hand over fist AND they have relatively few owned asse
34 Letsgetwet : Then why have they been operating in bankruptcy for the last three years, done away with pensions, cutting wages, and having their aircraft reposest?
35 Jetdeltamsy : I agree that it's very unlikely. But personally, I would love to see it. UAL management has bashed Continental for years. Talk about a reversal of fo
36 JoFMO : Don't take about the past, it's history. The actual situation and the future is what counts.
37 UAL777 : Can you make 1...just 1 statement that is not some cheerleading for the company you work for? UA posted a 3rd quarter $165 million dollar NET profit
38 Letsgetwet : Can you? It doesn't matter what YOU think, it's the other 99.9% that count. There is no way that UA's service even comes close
39 Uacoscs : I thought it was 168 million. Maybe i read it wrong.
40 UAL777 : Yes I can, and I do. Why? that was 1 travel magazine of how many? Everytime UA gets some award all the UA haters come on here and denounce it saying
41 ARGinLON : You should compare apples with apples. CO's BussinessFirst should be compared with UA's business class product and not with First class. Although the
42 Luisca : CO is not in bankruptcy, They are expanding to Latin America, They OWN the second largest airline in Central America which themselves own The second
43 UAcosCS : It isn't UAL fault CO doesn't offer the same product. You should compare the best or each company which is what was compared. UAL offers a better pro
44 ARGinLON : Although they are they are their top product you still cannot compare it. Fares are completly different. What you should do is to take a Business cla
45 UAcosCS : This is the second dumbest comment on this site. Man, there are some dumb CO folks on this site. Of course. United also still has significant assets
46 SLUAviator : There are three things that need to go before UA and CO could merge: 1) United's management--without a doubt the worst management in the history of th
47 Post contains images Jacobin777 : disagree...UA's management, especially Tilton have done an extraordinary job in righting the ship..given Tilton's backround, he EASILY could have got
48 Mariner : Whatever you think of the way Mr. Tilton has run the airline, he has done an outstanding job of running the company. Many people believe he was writt
49 FriendlySkies : Really? Because last time I checked, UA's "worst management in the history of the airlines" was able to keep UA alive the past 3 years while fixing t
50 Tornado82 : His name means he lives in/near Indianapolis. Capital of the state of Indiana, home of a rather famous race, and IND airport. Don't believe me, check
51 Letsgetwet : Gordon Bethune " From Worst to First " Work Hard Fly Right Go Continental Airlines!!
52 Post contains images Indy : So true. I had no idea when I picked the name here that it would be confused on a regular basis with Independence Air. I have never flown either airl
53 Mariner : Note that I said "the (present day) book". What Mr. Bethune did was spelndid was it was a few years ago. Times have changed. cheers mariner
54 Post contains images UAcosCS : Good job on the detective work, You have a lot of time on your hands. Read the below response, I guess I am not the only moron to make this mistake,
55 Post contains images Indy : No prob. No harm no foul
56 Tornado82 : Ah yes an "old, wise man" who thinks a 23 year old with 2 degrees and a full time "real" office job is an immature kid. Tell my bosses that. But your
57 Airzim : I don't work for CO or any other airline for that matter. However, I stand my my orginal statement, the only way CO and UA will merge is if DL, NW, o
58 Post contains images UAcosCS : Now I did go to public schools, but I would say you called me a moron? Hmm maybe I should ask your boss, andsee if your real office job is getting a
59 Tornado82 : Well sheeee-it. I must have been having a worse day than I thought today if I used the word moron lol. My bad, but the point still stands, it was FlyI
60 UAcosCS : I hope aviation is only a hobby. There is a reason Skywest is getting more 700 series CRJ's, they are customer friendly, unlike the 200 series. Cities
61 Tornado82 : ExpressJet has hundreds (approaching 300 actually) of ERJ's, which I never said to get rid of. And if they'd be ordering E-170's as well like I said,
62 Mariner : Why? If they are offered a great deal from either Airbus or the leasing companies, why not take it? I thought the object is to make money. cheers mar
63 JoFMO : UA should scale back a little bit of their long-haul operation in IAD and expand EWR-Asia with the planes. UA has a big presence in Asia, what CO lack
64 Tornado82 : But will it be worth while to have a fleet that's going to be split like 80-20, or something? And the 737/A319 sized fleet will be a big jumbled mess
65 Mariner : Does it matter? Why would it matter? United's A320 family fleet is several times larger than the entire fleet of several smaller airlines. And within
66 Post contains images Tornado82 : I love it... of all the plans I mentioned, the only thing people get hung up on is an A v B thing which I didn't even intend to start. Fine, keep the
67 Post contains images Mariner : Not A v B - just puzzled about the economics of your plan. Such as: What aircraft would you use for a replacement on, say, LAX/SYD? Instead, I hope t
68 Tornado82 : What about the new 777? Although, with a CO influence, I could see an ERJ-145XR on the route, lol.
69 Post contains images Mariner : It is a terrific aircraft, but I don't know it it does the trick for SYD/LAX. What United may need on that route - as with some of the Asian routes -
70 UAcosCS : My wife just flew First on an e-170 ORD-RDU, So when did they lose the Other cabin? Because I don't think they can fill a CRJ-700 without giving away
71 Tornado82 : What I meant was that they could be fitted with multiple cabins, LIKE UA did with the E-170. I guess I needed a comma in there for the correct effect
72 Post contains links and images UAcosCS : I guess writing it makes you feel better, keep telling yourself you matter. This is from a thread posted I believe today 11/06/05 UAL 767's don't nee
73 Tornado82 : Once again, you can't read what I post. I didn't say UA needs widebody lift. But Continental seems to have one hell of a need for long haul/widebody
74 UAcosCS : Why do you feel the need to explain yourself? I am not going to feel any different for you now, nor will I later. A tip from a glorified ticket taker
75 Post contains images Uadc8contrail : since this thread was hijacked by a pro ual person and a anti ual person.... lets move onto the next new thread ......what effect will wn have on zk i
76 Post contains images MD90fan : UA's stored 762's are non -ER variants and lack transatlantic range
77 Uadc8contrail : negative MD90fan, all ua 762s were outfitted for trans atl ops....hence the operation to fra,cdg from ord back when ual was awarded the first trans a
78 Tornado82 : But I like UA, actually.
79 Post contains images HunUtazo : ..tic-toc, tic-toc, tic-toc, tic-toc--------------------------------
80 Co757 : Non Skilled? It Takes a lot of skill to deal with the situations that are put on my plate everyday including Egotistacle Pilots like you. You wanna t
81 Co757 : Whos The Cheerleader? Your just Grumpy because Continental has Done a complete 190 in the past 10 years and Now your team is on the other side, Sore
82 Uadc8contrail : lorenzowannabe,co757 If you are going to quote me.......quote the entire quote.....you do not know me NOR do you know what i do for a living...until y
83 Co757 : How many Ceo's does it take to save an airline in that 3 years? How many pollocks does it take to change a lightbulb?
84 Co757 : Cheerleader
85 Co757 : [quote=UAcosCS,reply=45]Thank you, another person who doent [/quote Its spelled Don't, Not doent.....Where did you go to school?
86 Co757 : I would be CEO for United because they Oust them every few months and Pay a huge Severance package..........Am I still Dumb UAL777
87 Mariner : I'm not sure what your point is. I have no respect for the way the United BOD acted prior to choosing Mr. Tilton - but they have stuck with him. CEO
88 UAL777 : I was stating how I felt based on experiance riding on the 3 airlines. I also said CO had great customer service in this thread AND in a trip report.
89 Letsgetwet : What do fish and lightbulbs have to do with this thread?
90 UAcosCS : You're an anal person, did I spell that right? Why yes you are.
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