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American Eagle 4184 - 11 Years Ago  
User currently offlineKjet12 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 975 posts, RR: 8
Posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6587 times:

Just want to make note that today marks the 11th anniversary of American Eagle 4184 which went down near Roselawn, Indiana. The ATR-72 (N401AM) flew into known icing conditions while in a holding pattern enroute to ORD. All 68 passengers and crew were lost in the accident. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their family.

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20001206X02420&key=1

Kris


AA - Doing what we do best.
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3275 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6528 times:

Quoting Kjet12 (Thread starter):
My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims

Why to the victims? They've been gone 11 years. It just happens. By the way, kinda morbid to think about it being Halloween and all.....don't you think?



.......
User currently offlineSKYYBLUE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6500 times:

May God rest their souls. If I remember correctly one of the flight attendants was a young lady who was on her IOE flight. When I worked ATR flights this accident always crossed my mind. God Bless Them!

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6498 times:

Yes it was. It was a Monday night and they had 'Throw Back' night at Bears Stadium on Monday Night Football. All the teams were wearin the old style jerseys. It was down right nasty there. Raining and cold. The news broke in just at half time to announce the news of the crash.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineFlymli From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6488 times:

I will never forget that night. One of the worst flying nights I had ever been on in my life. I was on a Great Lakes Beech 1900 from Chicago Meigs to Springfield, Illinois and we had moderate to severe turbulance the entire trip. When we landing in SPI, I got home, turned the tv on and there was the news of the American Eagle ATR-72. I'm glad I got home safe.

User currently offlineCsturdiv From Australia, joined Aug 2005, 1471 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6451 times:

Quoting Kjet12 (Thread starter):
Just want to make note that today marks the 11th anniversary of American Eagle 4184 which went down near Roselawn, Indiana. The ATR-72 (N401AM) flew into known icing conditions while in a holding pattern enroute to ORD. All 68 passengers and crew were lost in the accident. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their family.

Wasn't this accident one of the reasons behind AA getting rid of the ATR in these routes where icing is a problem? And if icing is a problem with the ATR, why does First Air operate the ATR42 in an area that is about 50 times (slight exaggeration) worse than the Midwest winters?

Craig



An American expat living and working in Australia
User currently offlineLucianflyboy From St. Lucia, joined Jun 2005, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6416 times:

Sad day indeed. I was on initial training at the then 'Learning Center'. All the f/a's that were in training were all bummed out that night.

God rest their souls.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22995 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6368 times:

Quoting Csturdiv (Reply 5):
Wasn't this accident one of the reasons behind AA getting rid of the ATR in these routes where icing is a problem?

Yes, and UA's competitive response is the reason we no longer see props at ORD (there's still some propaganda dating to 1998 or so about all jet service sitting around MQ's Concourse G at ORD).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6253 times:

Quoting Csturdiv (Reply 5):
Wasn't this accident one of the reasons behind AA getting rid of the ATR in these routes where icing is a problem?

AA still uses them at STL regularly. We get more ice than snow lately.


User currently offlineAAgent From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 560 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6222 times:

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 8):
AA still uses them at STL regularly. We get more ice than snow lately.

I don't believe there are any AA/AE ATR's operating into STL. I believe the ATR fleet is operated exclusively in the region from South Florida throughout the Caribbean. Anyone have a confirmation on this?

Best regards,
AAgent



War Eagle!
User currently offlineFlymli From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6211 times:

TransStates operating as American Connection no longer has the ATR fleet in STL. Federal Express took over those aircraft from them therefore no ATS's any longer for AA and STL.

User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6193 times:

Also, don't forget that this is a rather morbid date in aviation history:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19791031-0

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19991031-0

God rest all their souls.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineNavairjax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6188 times:

I swear I saw at least one MQ ATR at STL on Saturday morning.

User currently offlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1482 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6143 times:

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 1):
By the way, kinda morbid to think about it being Halloween and all.....don't you think?

I agree. My best friend's Dad died in that crash and we were seniors in high school that year. His Dad decided to take an earlier flight home and well, you know the rest. My friend's brother was in college at the time and when the family was notified they were worried about finding him on Halloween night (with parties and all) but as luck would have it, he was at home with his girlfriend.



Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineYegger From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6028 times:

Quoting Csturdiv (Reply 5):
Wasn't this accident one of the reasons behind AA getting rid of the ATR in these routes where icing is a problem? And if icing is a problem with the ATR, why does First Air operate the ATR42 in an area that is about 50 times (slight exaggeration) worse than the Midwest winters?

Not exactly correct. Although First Air operates in parts of Northern Canada where extreme cold is normal in the winter (below -30C), the area is not particularly prone to icing. This is because the area is essentially a desert - it's a very cold and dry desert as compared to the typical hot and dry deserts. As a result there is relatively little precipitation throughout the year as compared to other areas such as coastal areas - the air is generally "dry." One of the main causes of icing is the presence of rain and/or "supercooled water droplets" when flying through air which is near the freezing point. These attach onto an airplane and then freeze into solid ice. The severe cold means that most moisture is frozen solid already (and even then there is very little of that in the air at such cold temperatures) and therefore won't adhere to an aircraft like moisture will when the temperature is near the freezing point.

I hope this helps??


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5942 times:

Quoting Csturdiv (Reply 5):
why does First Air operate the ATR42 in an area that is about 50 times (slight exaggeration) worse than the Midwest winters?

As said above, operations in Canada are not anywhere near as bad as the lower 48 in the winter. Due to their much colder climate it's rare that they get icing- freezing rain in Canada. It just snows...!! It was freezing rain that brought down AE 4184 that night when an ice ridge formed behind the de-ice boot and caused a disruption of the air flow over the aileron. With the auto pilot on, the AP continued to correct for this imbalace until it could not hold level flight anymore. The aileron disengaged, and the aircraft snap rolled and there was little the crew could do at that point.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6383 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5920 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 15):
It was freezing rain that brought down AE 4184 that night when an ice ridge formed behind the de-ice boot and caused a disruption of the air flow over the aileron. With the auto pilot on, the AP continued to correct for this imbalace until it could not hold level flight anymore. The aileron disengaged, and the aircraft snap rolled and there was little the crew could do at that point.

IIRC the flap selection (10 degrees while they were in the hold) also contributed to the problem...ATR didn't factor flap usage at a non-approach airspeed into the ATR's known icing certification.



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
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