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DL's Most Profitable Intl Routes?  
User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8088 times:

Ok, so any DL insider can share his/her knowledge about the cash cow routes in DL international destinations? Now that they are expanding intl routes, it would be nice to know the routes that made good money for them. Thanks for the replies

[Edited 2005-11-01 19:49:47]


Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33077 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8077 times:

Just because they are rapidly expanding does not mean they had a "killer summer". It just shows that they are reallocating their fleet to be used on more profitable route oppurtunities that have less compietitition.


a.
User currently offlineAirScoot From United States of America, joined May 2005, 688 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8056 times:

I'm curious if some of the routes like NCE and TXL are helping or hurting their profit margin internationally since they appear to be the only nonstop players from JFK in those markets.

User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7971 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Just because they are rapidly expanding does not mean they had a "killer summer". It just shows that they are reallocating their fleet to be used on more profitable route oppurtunities that have less compietitition.

Agreed, noted, edited, however knowing that you probably know the most profitable routes, I wish you didn't end your post there.



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User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3110 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7906 times:

I would guess ATL-NRT is one of the most profitable.

I would also assume FRA/CDG/LGW are pretty profitable too since they get the 777's. Given that DL only has 8 777's, they can only afford to put them on the most profitable routes.

As far as cities like NCE/VCE, I would assume that they are pretty profitable given the decision to increase service from ATL as well, although I wonder if there are alterior motives in starting those flights (e.g. testing the waters to see how they would do if eventually shifted to ATL exclusively, or possibly to increase service in an attempt to keep out CO).


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4753 posts, RR: 45
Reply 5, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7823 times:

Milano Malpensa has been rumored to be DL's most profitable International Destination.


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7761 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Just because they are rapidly expanding does not mean they had a "killer summer".

DL's Transatlantic operating profit increased 8% this past summer.

Quoting Gokmengs (Thread starter):
Ok, so any DL insider can share his/her knowledge about the cash cow routes in DL international destinations?

SVO and IST. Thanks to cargo GRU.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 4):
I would also assume FRA/CDG/LGW are pretty profitable too since they get the 777's.

FRA yes thanks to military traffic. CDG is good, but there is a lot connecting hub traffic in there that dilute it some.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7720 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 4):
I would guess ATL-NRT is one of the most profitable.

Could be true, its the lonestar in DL Asia presence-or lack there of.

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 5):
Milano Malpensa has been rumored to be DL's most profitable International Destination.

I remember on another thread one insider was saying not so good for MXP but I might be mistaken.

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 6):
SVO and IST. Thanks to cargo GRU.

DeltaMIA thanks you made my day IST is my hometown and I fly the route very often and its always packed, I know that doesn't mean good yields but nice to hear the confirmation from you.
Having said that here is a question for you; 2 months ago a DL exec in IST told me that DL is extremely happy with IST and he was pissed because the route is not daily in winter time and he said they codesahare tons of people to AF and AZ. He said it could go daily year round and he said he expected ATL-IST soon, but when DL made the announcement for the expansion I was surprised to see that ATL-IST wasn't there and they didn't mention JFK-IST going daily year round. What gives?



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User currently offlineLxsaab2000 From Switzerland, joined Feb 2004, 325 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7666 times:

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 7):
I remember on another thread one insider was saying not so good for MXP but I might be mistaken.

ATL is good , JFK is quite a disaster


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3110 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7691 times:

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 7):
Could be true, its the lonestar in DL Asia presence-or lack there of.

True that DL is pretty lame in Asia, although they recently added two additional destinations (MAA and TLV), and don't forget BOM either.

DL just doesn't have a strong hub in the west to launch more Asia flights, and also doesn't have the aircraft. This is why they didn't get the China service either. I'd like to see DL leverage their existing strengths over the Atlantic and focus there even more, potentially adding more Eastern European and Middle East destinations, and by re-entering Africa (e.g St. Petersburg, Warsaw, Bucharest, Beirut, Cairo, Lagos, Johannesburg, Cape Town). BLR might be a good option now too, since NW cancelled their proposed service. Let NW/UA duke it out in the Far East and focus on expanding across the Atlantic from JFK/ATL, where DL's core strengths already lie.

It's only a matter of time before US carriers start looking more to the Middle East, India, and Africa (especially with the 787 coming) and DL would be wise to establish a foothold there now. These routes are cash cows for BA/AF/LH.


User currently offlinePITA333 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 391 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7645 times:

Anyone know how JFK-BCN does for itself? I hope to travel that in the spring.

User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7650 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 9):
DL just doesn't have a strong hub in the west to launch more Asia flights, and also doesn't have the aircraft. This is why they didn't get the China service either. I'd like to see DL leverage their existing strengths over the Atlantic and focus there even more, potentially adding more Eastern European and Middle East destinations, and by re-entering Africa (e.g St. Petersburg, Warsaw, Bucharest, Beirut, Cairo, Lagos, Johannesburg, Cape Town). BLR might be a good option now too, since NW cancelled their proposed service. Let NW/UA duke it out in the Far East and focus on expanding across the Atlantic from JFK/ATL, where DL's core strengths already lie.

I agree with you that they don't have the equipment and the hub(they could use SLC for it if they want to)
However I think there is so much more money to be made in Asia compared to Europe. By Asia I would would like to single out 2 countries; China and India. There is so much growth in that market and with the way things going it looks like those 2 countries will be the suppliers of the world in the future if they are not now.I believe the traffic between those 2 and US and I mean lucrative buiness pax traffic will grow continously at a very healthy rate. I think DL has to enter those markets soon.  twocents 



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User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7600 times:

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 7):
ATL-IST wasn't there and they didn't mention JFK-IST going daily year round. What gives?

The yield is high to IST. However that doesn't necessarily mean that it is necessary to operate 204 or 408 seats per day to/from the states when you get generate the same amount of revenue with 5 weekly flights.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7546 times:

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 12):
However that doesn't necessarily mean that it is necessary to operate 204 or 408 seats per day to/from the states when you get generate the same amount of revenue with 5 weekly flights.

Hmm true, do you see any chance of ATL-IST happening or JFK-IST going daily year round at least?



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User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7508 times:

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 13):
Hmm true, do you see any chance of ATL-IST happening or JFK-IST going daily year round at least?

JFK-IST could be daily next winter. There will be a lot of spare 763ER's after the seasonal summer flights end.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 763 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7455 times:

Quoting PITA333 (Reply 10):
Anyone know how JFK-BCN does for itself? I hope to travel that in the spring.

I was about to write about BCN...

DL usually does JFK-BCN-MAD-JFK and this summer they got it split to JFK-MAD-JFK and JFK-BCN-JFK

My thought is... if BCN is not profitable... they wouldn't have kept the triangle this winter timetable.... and the triangle route is uncomfortable for both MAD and BCN...


User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7409 times:

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 14):
JFK-IST could be daily next winter. There will be a lot of spare 763ER's after the seasonal summer flights end

Will be looking forward to it, thanks for the info.
So we got IST-SVO-GRU as the money makers as of now, hopefully we will come up with a nice list soon.



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User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7387 times:

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 16):
So we got IST-SVO-GRU as the money makers as of now, hopefully we will come up with a nice list soon.

There weren't many losers this year in the international market. This was a great summer for International travel especially transatlantic.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7393 times:

Quoting Aisak (Reply 15):
DL usually does JFK-BCN-MAD-JFK and this summer they got it split to JFK-MAD-JFK and JFK-BCN-JFK

Actually, the flights were always split during the summer. Last winter was the first time DL operated the triangle flight. In previous winters it used to be JFK-MAD-BCN.

Quoting Aisak (Reply 15):
and the triangle route is uncomfortable for both MAD and BCN...

It may be uncomfortable, but it's the best way for DL to keep BCN active during the winter. Plus, it means one take-off and landing less than JFK-MAD-BCN, thereby, albeit minimally, reducing stress on the aircraft.


User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7375 times:

Do SU's low fares in the back in the winter filter out the large low-yield ethnic market on JFKSVO? (I suspect VV will play a similar role on JFKKBP) I've seen tickets for that flight on Priceline, but I couldsee American Contractors going to Russia (only non-stop choice) and Biz pax who doesn't like SU making Delta money.
-Mr. X



What now?
User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7358 times:

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 19):
Do SU's low fares in the back in the winter filter out the large low-yield ethnic market on JFKSVO?

No, Government traffic keep the high yield up. It is great being the lone US carrier on routes connecting foreign capitals to the United States. The leisure traveler may take SU up on their low fares, but government and adoptions stay on DL.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 21, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7319 times:

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 6):
Thanks to cargo GRU.

GRU now with two daily flights must be a money-maker.

Rgs,


User currently offlineDelta4eva From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7276 times:

The routes that I think are most profitable are as follows: ATL-NRT, ATL-GRU, ATL-MXP, CDG-BOM, ATL-LGW, ATL-FCO, JFK-SVO, JFK-IST, CDG-MAA, ATL-CDG, ATL-FRA, ATL-MAN, JFK-ATH, ATL-EZE.


FLY DELTA JETS
User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7202 times:

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 13):
do you see any chance of ATL-IST happening

If I'm not mistaken ATL-IST was an MD-11 previously. Does the -ER have the legs to fly it? God knows there's no extra 777's to put on the route...


User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 12 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7112 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 23):
If I'm not mistaken ATL-IST was an MD-11 previously.

Yes ATL-IST was an MD-11

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 23):
Does the -ER have the legs to fly it? God knows there's no extra 777's to put on the route...

I will check but I would think so they are starting ATL-ATH with an ER and I would assume if it can do ATH it can do IST too. If range is the reason I will be so pissed. All the signs were there for ATL-IST to start. Wish DL had more 777's  pray 



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25 Laxintl : This subject was discussed several months back. I have a 2004 Delta network study regarding profitability of the carriers international operations. Fo
26 Delta4eva : How can this be possible? DL has said that the one place where they are making money is international. I don't understand why DL would be expanding l
27 Laxintl : Probably clearly shows almost nothing made money domestically for 2004. Basically international as a whole is closer to generating positive cash then
28 Fbm3rd : Did DL ever fly TLV? or was that just CO?
29 RwSEA : DL flew to TLV prior to 9/11, but cut the service either shortly before or after (foggy memory). Around the time, DL was also flying to CAI and DXB.
30 OA412 : The 763ER should have no trouble flying ATL-IST nonstop. Per Boeing, the max range of the ER is 6105 nm giving it plenty of range to fly ATL-IST nons
31 EddieDude : How about JFK-MEX? In my experience, flights are always full and it is hard to find a cheap fare.
32 TakeOff : How about JFK-ATH? Is that profitable? I imagine it is, especially given the DL / OA duopoly on the route. Every time I've taken this flight is jam-pa
33 TokyoNarita : Maybe so in distance...but westbound ATH-ATL on a rough winter afternoon when the jetstream would sit right on top of the mid-Atlantic should be inte
34 MAH4546 : I'm pretty sure Atlanta-Athens will be a summer-only operation.
35 Aces727 : Does anyone knows how is ATL-BOG doing?
36 Pilot21 : Quoting Gokmengs: agree with you that they don't have the equipment and the hub(they could use SLC for it if they want to) However I think there is so
37 TinPusher007 : Regarding DL's int'l operations, it is an absolute shame that the US airline with the largest trans-atlantic network doesn't have any piece of the NYC
38 DAL767400ER : The next pax rights to be applied for would be for 2007, IIRC, so applications for those are at least a year off. [quote=Pilot21,reply=36]They also u
39 Delta4eva : Ummm...DL is in one of those markets and they were one of the first U.S. airlines in the market. They have two daily flights into India. JFK-CDG-BOM,
40 Deltadude : What about SCL? There may be empty seats but there is a hell of a lot of cargo on those 767-300s. I remember non-reving SCL-ATL and having to use my l
41 Gokmengs : You might be right DL didn't give specific info about that during the intl expansion press release. Actually I should have been more clear with my po
42 RwSEA : The 777 can't make it to BOM nonstop from JFK. Although CO and AA are flying nonstop to DEL, I'm sure they would have picked BOM if the 777 had the l
43 AR1300 : ATL-EZE x1 daily with a load factor of 97%. And they are adding a second flight.
44 DAL767400ER : Source for that? Actually DL does have aircraft for potential CHina routes, namely 5 777s that could be used for two nonstop routes. The problem is t
45 Gokmengs : I agree JFK-BOM would be money maker, but I was actually talking about a non stop from the west coast maybe with a 777, but DL doesn't have the equip
46 DeltaMIA : What doomed PDX was the lack of feed. There were only a handful of flights into PDX to feed the relatively large number of Asia flights DL had. So a
47 BigGSFO : I believe JFK is consoidered a hub for DL. As far as any intercontinental flying from the west coast - DL doesn't seem to have an interest in this. T
48 Post contains links Gokmengs : JFK is my home airport, and DL doesn't consider it as a hub. but obviously this is just a term that they use maybe. This link on DL website shows ATL
49 Post contains links DeltaMIA : Yes all in terminology. "Major Hub" it is not, hub it is. The latest news release regarding DL's position at JFK. http://news.delta.com/article_displ
50 Gokmengs : They make it clear that its of great importance for them too, which is cool. Thanks for the link DeltaMIA. I hope that DL gets out of their troubles
51 DeltaMIA : Problem is the Port Authority won't finance the terminal for DL (as they did for B6). DL is willing to pay for it over time, but the city is requirin
52 Gokmengs : Wow! Thanks so much for the info. How nice that PANYNJ is playing favorites, if I was DL I would be bitching big time.(I'm sure they did) No problem
53 DeltaMIA : Well financial situation had a lot to do with it.
54 Sampa737 : Yeah, I'd be curious to know how the 2nd flight to GRU is doing. And, I wonder how ATL-GIG is doing. A few years back, GIG was the final destination
55 AR1300 : I read it in the inflight magazine in one of such a flights, very recently. Mike
56 DeltaMIA : Brazil is doing awesome. The plane can make money with no passengers on board. Having people in the cabin is just bonus.
57 LipeGIG : I was on ATL last monday and take the ATL-GIG flight. I talk to the people from the gate on both GRU and GIG flights and the info was the some: cargo
58 Post contains links B4real : I can't bring myself to consider TLV part of Asia. It is West of Moscow (different lattitude, however). Yes it is. It is considered a hub by DL. See
59 RCS763AV : What about the andean destinations...BOG, LIM, SCL....I know delta has been getting a lot of PAX from MDE and CLO thanks to the codeshare with AV.
60 Post contains images N509JB : I think you'll see South Africa announced within a year. Just remember you heard it here first!   St. Petersburg would be very attractive I must adm
61 RwSEA : I hope so! The time would be right since the SA codeshare will be ending. SA is a huge market, with very high yields (hard-pressed to find even coach
62 Hardiwv : Good list, which I would agree. I would also add ATL-GIG in 2006! Source? As far as I know CO would add a 2nd flight and not DL. Correct. DL can fly
63 Panamair : Actually, VCE has been invaded by US already this past summer. SVO will get competition sooner or later from CO's EWR-DME. I think IST, NCE, and STR
64 Gokmengs : Thats amazing, hope DL can find more routes like that they sure need it. Very true, if you establish yourself in those markets and utilize them so th
65 Post contains images BBJII : Most Profitable Top 5 1 - ATL-NRT 2 - ATL-LGW (last flight) 3 - ATL-CDG (connection traffic) 4 - NCE-ATL (It's the Cote D'Azur money that makes it wor
66 DAL767400ER : Interesting to hear that South Africa would actually be a possibility, though given both potential loads and yields, it isn't that surprising. Fuels
67 Delta4eva : Do you mean NCE-JFK? DL hasn't started NCE-ATL yet.
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