Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Regionals Getting Rid Of Crj's  
User currently offlineSoaringadi From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 472 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5100 times:

Okay I cannot really give an exact proof, but I know I read this somewhere (and maybe some of you guys did too) that a couple of airlines were getting id of the small Rj's (Crj 200's especially). Maybe even Erj's but haven't heard about that yet. Anyone know why is this, since it seems like a great airplane to me.

Drink !  Smile


If it ain't Boeing, I'm not going !
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlypdx From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 636 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5030 times:

Because they are a big money user (NOT MAKER) due to the number of seats. Someone can explain it better, but it's got to do with it being expensive to run.

User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6126 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4988 times:

Horizon just switched a few orders of CR7's to Q400's and plans to bring on more of the Q400's.

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8961 posts, RR: 40
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4966 times:

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 1):
Because they are a big money user (NOT MAKER) due to the number of seats.

As with any aircraft, as long as you use it properly, it will be profitable. It's a niche aircraft.

But the reason overall is that there are too many of them around, and the larger RJs (CRJ7/9 and E70/75/90/95) will take the place of some of the 50-seaters being used in high frequency markets.

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineSuv From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4794 times:

[

Quoting AS739X (Reply 2):
Horizon just switched a few orders of CR7's to Q400's and plans to bring on more of the Q400's.

ASSFO

Excellent! Love the Q400..very comfortable aircraft.

Suv


User currently offlineBBJII From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 850 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4666 times:

Not wanting to start any wars  Silly .... but

Most carriers removing CRJ200's from there fleets are US regionals.

The Seat per Mile costs on these flights are getting higher and higher in the competitive US market place. (not that othe rmarkets are not competitive).

Newer RJ's offer the same performance with more seats, so it lower the Seat per Mile costs and beoming more viable.

In Europe CJR200's are operated mainly on routes where there is no competion on the carrier is so dominant they are the public first choice and can charge as they wish...therefore the Seat per Mile costs are lower as the fares are higher.

Although some Euro-regionals are fading them out too  Silly

Ohh yeah...I hate the CRJ200. It's a blow dart with wings



Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
User currently offlineC5onknees From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 153 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4595 times:

The CRJ's are considerably underpowered and are serious groundhuggers, so I could care less if they get rid of them. The ERJ's are cool though. Thanks for the info.


cheers


User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6018 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days ago) and read 4480 times:

Quoting C5onknees (Reply 6):
The CRJ's are considerably underpowered and are serious groundhuggers

That depends on the airline and how they ordered them.  Wink



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6606 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 4 days ago) and read 4453 times:

Comair has announced they will dump up to 30 CRJ's in the coming months. We already know that 11 CRJ's will be grounded as of Dec 1.

User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4407 times:

At one time people paid to fly on the RJ's to avoid turbo's but now days, the fares aren't high enough to keep them flying. I think airlines like Skywest who are bringing on the CRJ-700 are making a smart move. I only hope that Air Wisconsin will order something larger and soon! I don't want us to start lagging behind!


Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4304 times:

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 9):
I don't want us to start lagging behind!

You've been lagging behind since the day our folks bought CRJ's instead of ERJ's IMHO. Otherwise, you're a top-notch regional as far as service goes.

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 9):
I think airlines like Skywest who are bringing on the CRJ-700 are making a smart move. I only hope that Air Wisconsin will order something larger and soon!

Unless you're going the FlyI route, you need to find an airline who will allow you to bring on the larger aircraft... like US. And for God's sake, don't buy anything with the first letter C in its name.


User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4203 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting BBJII (Reply 5):
In Europe CJR200's are operated mainly on routes where there is no competion on the carrier is so dominant they are the public first choice and can charge as they wish...therefore the Seat per Mile costs are lower as the fares are higher.

How does someone charging what they wish lower the seat per mile costs?



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineSRT75 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4203 times:

Quoting C5onknees (Reply 6):
The CRJ's are considerably underpowered and are serious groundhuggers

The only time I have noticed this was on a flight from Helena, MT to Salt Lake City. We made an S turn after takeoff to gain altitude to clear the mountains surrounding the valley.

Profitable or not -- I personally love the CRJs. Maybe a blow dart with wings, but convenient, comfortable, and faster than the old turboprops they replaced.


User currently offlineSkywatcher From Canada, joined Sep 2002, 458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4010 times:

The CRJ-100/200 was innovative in it's time. It spawned numerous competitors (Dornier/Embraer/Russians etc.). That alone is proof enough of its success.
Like many humans (self included), it's getting long in the tooth but still deserves the respect that it should have.

If it's so bad, how could it have sold in excess of 1,000 airframes?


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3993 times:

The CJ-200 is now out of production due to weak demand. Canadiar just announced this last week. The smallest one you can get is the 700 now. The 200 is being discontinued because of the high CASM airlines have experienced with it. Too few seats.

All of these jets will eventually be parked/replaced by the 700 or the EMB 170, except where they are needed in the very smallest communities, where the ticket price/revenue will support them.

Comair, ASA and others will have to go to the larger jets with less frequesncy to survive. Canadair has admitted that the C-series is a program that is also in trouble since thye have not yet found launch customer.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineBeechNut From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 725 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3473 times:

Quoting C5onknees (Reply 6):
The CRJ's are considerably underpowered and are serious groundhuggers, so I could care less if they get rid of them. The ERJ's are cool though. Thanks for the info.

Care to qualify this statement by posting thrust-to-weight ratios? Oh, can't be bothered to do the research? Here goes:

CRJ200LR 3.036 lb weight per pound of thrust
ERJ145XR 3.041 lb weight per pound of thrust.

So you see the ERJ actually has a slightly WORSE thrust loading than the CRJ (current 50-seat models)

However, the CRJ does NOT have leading edge slats and this gives it a longer takeoff run. I don't know if the ERJ has leading edge slats or not.

Gosh wouldn't it be a great day on Airliners.net when people actually started posting factual information that had a minimum of research?

Mike

(source: BBD and EMB web sites)


User currently offlineBomber996 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3309 times:

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 15):
However, the CRJ does NOT have leading edge slats and this gives it a longer takeoff run. I don't know if the ERJ has leading edge slats or not.

The ERJ's do not have leading edge slots. That explains their nose down approach. However, with fuel prices the way they are it is cheaper to make the takeoff roll longer to use less fuel. Hell, even the A340 can be a good performer if pushed to its limits.

I feel like I just opened a whole new can of worms with that one.  Wow!

Peace  box 



AVIATION - A Vacation In Any Town, I Own Nothing
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3171 times:

Quoting BeechNut (Reply 15):
I don't know if the ERJ has leading edge slats or not.

No.

The ERJ's can regularly cruise at FL370, loaded or not. When was the last time you saw a CRJ at FL370 with any type of meaningful load? In all the RJ flying I've done I've never been over FL 320 in one, and typically we're in the mid 20's.


User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6158 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3051 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 14):
The 200 is being discontinued because of the high CASM airlines have experienced with it. Too few seats.

That it not so! The CRJ200 is being discontinued because there is a surplus of them on the market... it is as simple as that and not because of the "high" CASM. You don't see the 737-700 being discontinued even though it has higher CASM (and fewer seats, too) than the 737-800!

The only reason why there is a glut of small RJ's is entirely due to pilot union scope clauses that first prevented, then restricted, the number of plus 50-seat jets that airlines could fly. It is a simple as that.

For example, do you think that COEX doesn't want to fly +50-seat jets... or have the requirement for them. Likewise, AE, do you think that that they are happy being restricted to only 25 CRJ-700's?

Now with many Scope Clauses being relaxed, or almost eliminated by Chap. 11, airlines are now buying the larger RJ's that they always needed... and wanted.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6018 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3027 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 17):
When was the last time you saw a CRJ at FL370 with any type of meaningful load?

Except for the summer, when it reaches ISA+15 and many aircraft types are affected, pretty much every other day of the year. Of course, we use the hot and high models of the 3B1s.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Is LH Getting Rid Of Their A300's? posted Sat May 13 2006 12:42:14 by SKA380
Aeroflot Getting Rid Of TU 134s posted Sat Oct 1 2005 00:43:19 by Kevin
HRL And LRD Getting Rid Of Cargo Before Emily posted Tue Jul 19 2005 19:41:36 by Skywatch
What Prevents CO From Getting Rid Of Their 735s? posted Sun Mar 13 2005 23:53:45 by Cory6188
Why Is Aeromexico Getting Rid Of Their 757 posted Wed Aug 11 2004 06:09:41 by Flydc10
SAS Getting Rid Of A321s posted Thu May 27 2004 14:53:25 by Cloud4000
Getting Rid Of 777 Or What? posted Sat Apr 24 2004 11:13:32 by Businessboy
Condor (TCA) Getting Rid Of The 757-200 posted Fri Jan 9 2004 09:30:12 by Godbless
AA Getting Rid Of A300? posted Sat Nov 29 2003 17:56:14 by N62NA
Is Transavia Getting Rid Of Their 757's? posted Sun Apr 20 2003 08:05:24 by Dragon-wings