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Can Anyone Explain This DL Route?  
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4580 posts, RR: 18
Posted (9 years 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5804 times:

I was checking prices of IND-CVG for Jan 12th-19th. The price of nonstop tickets was over $500 for this short hop thats probably 100 to 120 miles. The cheapest ticket of $450 was not direct. As a matter of a fact it wasn't even remotely close.

IND-ATL-JAX-CVG and CVG-JAX-ATL-IND

What kind of route is that?


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN509JB From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5767 times:

Quoting Indy (Thread starter):
What kind of route is that?

You asked for the lowest fare, and you got it. Thats' what you have to do to get that fare since it's sold out on the non stops.

B


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4580 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5753 times:

Some of the routes DL offers is absolutely amazing. My favorite is FLL to MIA

FLL-MCO-ATL-MIA & MIA-MCO-ATL-FLL

According to Google Maps its only 27 mile drive from MIA to FLL. Yet these routes will take you some 1400 miles each way.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4580 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5745 times:

Quoting N509JB (Reply 1):
You asked for the lowest fare, and you got it. Thats' what you have to do to get that fare since it's sold out on the non stops.

That would be great if it were the case. But since I'm looking at Jan 12th the flights are about empty. If you check the DL seat meaps you'll see that virtually nothing has been reserved. About the only things blocked off are the emergency row seats. I think this is just DL and extremely goofy pricing. I can take a limo from IND to CVG for that price and still have money left over.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineN509JB From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5727 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 3):
That would be great if it were the case. But since I'm looking at Jan 12th the flights are about empty. If you check the DL seat meaps you'll see that virtually nothing has been reserved.

You cannot tell what the fare should be by looking at a seat map.

B


User currently offlineFlyer732 From Namibia, joined Nov 1999, 1367 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5726 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 3):
That would be great if it were the case. But since I'm looking at Jan 12th the flights are about empty. If you check the DL seat meaps you'll see that virtually nothing has been reserved. About the only things blocked off are the emergency row seats. I think this is just DL and extremely goofy pricing. I can take a limo from IND to CVG for that price and still have money left over.

Never judge how full a flight is by the seat map, most passengers will not preselect seats. If you say that the seat map is almost completely empty, it could mean the flight is better than 50% full....OR...if the fare is that high, most people haven't started booking yet, thus the higher fare to ensure the flight brings in money. Just because you book in advance, doesn't mean that 3 days prior to departure you won't find a fare on the same flight for $200 less.


User currently offlineN509JB From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5717 times:

Quoting Flyer732 (Reply 5):
Just because you book in advance, doesn't mean that 3 days prior to departure you won't find a fare on the same flight for $200 less

Um, that's not how it works on real airlines, tough guy!  Wink

B


User currently onlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3129 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5702 times:

Quoting N509JB (Reply 6):
Um, that's not how it works on real airlines, tough guy!

i've actually seen this a couple times. a week-in-advance ORD-IAD-ORD on UA is often over $350. Next day is sometimes $170 or so. I once booked at 3 hour in advance FAR-MSP-ORD-MSP-FAR on NW for $184 while the whole couple of weeks before it was $375, $404 etc... just trying to fill their empty seats. better to have a seat someone paid $50 for than no one at all. oh and a same day IAD-MCO-IAD on UA for $195 while the week before tickets were well over $800.

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4580 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5692 times:

Yeah right. IND-CVG in mid Jan is such a hot ticket. lol. The seat maps are showing empty because the flights are basically empty. Its funny that I check mid May and its the same pricing and the seat maps are just as empty. I'm sure those flights 6 months out are half full with people that haven't selected seats right?  Smile


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineN509JB From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5674 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 8):
Yeah right. IND-CVG in mid Jan is such a hot ticket. lol. The seat maps are showing empty because the flights are basically empty. Its funny that I check mid May and its the same pricing and the seat maps are just as empty. I'm sure those flights 6 months out are half full with people that haven't selected seats right?

Indy, did you ask for the lowest fare?

Did it give you the lowest fare?

What's the problem?

B


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4580 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5652 times:

They list all the nonstop flights. All with horribly high prices. All the way at the bottom of the list they have a flight thats about $100 cheaper. Its their lowest fare of the day. Its an absolutely nonsense route too. They offer this so they can claim that $466 is their best fare. Yes. It is. If you want to fly through ATL and JAX each way. That kind of route is put up knowing full well that nobody in their right mind is going to take it. At first I wondered why in the world a route like that would be offered. Its just for advertising. Yeah you can get a $466 ticket from IND to CVG but nobody is going to take that one. So basically you are stuck with $572 tickets.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4580 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5610 times:

I thought DL has learned but apparently not. Knowing the flights are about empty in mid May here is what is happening from CVG

CVG-LAX $504
IND-LAX $325 (Lowest is $272 on FL from IND)

CVG-MCO $300
IND-MCO $178

CVG-LAS $394
IND-LAS $325 (Lowest is $278 on Midwest from IND)

CVG-JFK $320
IND-JFK $276 (Lowest is $264 on AA from IND)

No wonder so many people drive from there to here to start their trips. DL wants to get a larger percentage of O/D on their flights. This isn't the way to do it. If you keep driving the locals away you won't survive.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineN509JB From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5573 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 10):
Yes. It is. If you want to fly through ATL and JAX each way. That kind of route is put up knowing full well that nobody in their right mind is going to take it. At first I wondered why in the world a route like that would be offered. Its just for advertising.

Is it now? Amazing how much insight you have on revenue management.

Tell me, do you go into the non av forum and complain because you pay more for a bag of chips at a corner convenience store than you do if you have to drive all the way to the supermarket?

Sure, it costs more to eat at an airport restaurant, but it's more convenient than leaving the airport and going to the next closest TGIFridays.

Get the point now?

Quoting Indy (Reply 11):
I thought DL has learned but apparently not.

No of course not, 75 years in business and obviously they don't' have a clue. Would you like a job application, cause I guess you can straighten them out.

Quoting Indy (Reply 11):
CVG-LAX $504
IND-LAX $325 (Lowest is $272 on FL from IND)

CVG-MCO $300
IND-MCO $178

CVG-LAS $394
IND-LAS $325 (Lowest is $278 on Midwest from IND)

CVG-JFK $320
IND-JFK $276 (Lowest is $264 on AA from IND)

And your point is...? Like seriously, is it hurting you? Why do you care?

Quoting Indy (Reply 11):
No wonder so many people drive from there to here to start their trips. DL wants to get a larger percentage of O/D on their flights. This isn't the way to do it. If you keep driving the locals away you won't survive.

Show me an airline that doesn't do this.

B


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5529 times:

Quoting N509JB (Reply 12):
Show me an airline that doesn't do this.

WN FL F9 B6 NK



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4580 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5513 times:

Quoting N509JB (Reply 12):
No of course not, 75 years in business and obviously they don't' have a clue. Would you like a job application, cause I guess you can straighten them out.

I couldn't do much worse than bankruptcy I guess  Smile

Quoting N509JB (Reply 12):
And your point is...? Like seriously, is it hurting you? Why do you care?

DL in CVG is the best thing that ever happened to IND. I just feel bad for the people of CVG.

Quoting N509JB (Reply 12):
Sure, it costs more to eat at an airport restaurant, but it's more convenient than leaving the airport and going to the next closest TGIFridays.

What does this have to do with my post? Assuming this has anything to do with my route comparisons it would be like charging me $40 to eat at Fridays but allowing people to drive in from the next town over and letting them eat for $20. I'd just drive to the next town over and catch a ride back with someone else and eat for half price.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4580 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5509 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 13):
WN FL F9 B6 NK

Not sure who NK is but aren't the other 4 profitable?



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineStlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9496 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5498 times:

Quoting Indy (Thread starter):
IND-ATL-JAX-CVG and CVG-JAX-ATL-IND

What kind of route is that?

aren't you into mileage runs?

a few times the cheapest fare of $78 roundtrip from STL into ORD has been routing through Little Rock, other times Columbus, and one time, Tulsa, all on American Airlines/American Eagle/American Connection.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineN509JB From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5492 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 13):
WN FL F9 B6 NK

And which airports do they have major hubs at where they are the only carriers?

Exactly.

Quoting Indy (Reply 14):
I couldn't do much worse than bankruptcy I guess

If you believe that this has anything to do with BK, then you're worse off than I thought.

Quoting Indy (Reply 14):
DL in CVG is the best thing that ever happened to IND. I just feel bad for the people of CVG

Why?

Quoting Indy (Reply 14):
What does this have to do with my post? Assuming this has anything to do with my route comparisons it would be like charging me $40 to eat at Fridays but allowing people to drive in from the next town over and letting them eat for $20. I'd just drive to the next town over and catch a ride back with someone else and eat for half price.

People in CVG are paying for the convenience of having non stop flights to everywhere, this is not a difficult concept to understand.

And as long as gas prices stay the way they are, not as many people are driving.

A price is never too high if people buy it.

I can see it would be a waste of my energy to explain the complexities of revenue management and fare structures to you, so I'll just say yes, you're right, Delta hates the people of CVG. Thanks for sticking up for them on a.net. I'm sure they'll have a parade in your honor.

B


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4580 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5469 times:

Quoting N509JB (Reply 17):
I can see it would be a waste of my energy to explain the complexities of revenue management and fare structures to you, so I'll just say yes, you're right, Delta hates the people of CVG. Thanks for sticking up for them on a.net. I'm sure they'll have a parade in your honor.

You might not thinking I understand the complexities of revenue management but I don't think you understand supply and demand or the concept of operating outside of a monopoly environment. Maybe you can explain CVG's extremely low O/D percentages and why so many drive to other airports? Why when the rest of the industry is seeing growth CVG is stagnant or even declining in O/D.

I don't need a parade. I can just drive up and down the IND long term parking and see all the Ohio plates. But hey. What do I know. Keep doing it your way. I mean your way is so successful that DL is thriving and their O/D numbers out of CVG are top notch in the industry. I'll just pretend that 1 in 4 passengers traveling to/from my airport don't come from out of state.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineN509JB From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5407 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 18):
Maybe you can explain CVG's extremely low O/D percentages and why so many drive to other airports?

Because CVG isn't a big O/D city, never has been, never will be. It's a connecting point.

Quoting Indy (Reply 18):
Why when the rest of the industry is seeing growth CVG is stagnant or even declining in O/D

Actually Simplifares was started there and I believe Delta saw huge results from people flying out of CVG instead of driving to the likes of DAY, ect...

Quoting Indy (Reply 18):
I'll just pretend that 1 in 4 passengers traveling to/from my airport don't come from out of state.

So what if they do? Why do you care?

B


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6694 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 weeks ago) and read 5300 times:

Quoting N509JB (Reply 17):
People in CVG are paying for the convenience of having non stop flights to everywhere, this is not a difficult concept to understand.

No, people are paying more because DL has a near-monopoly at CVG.

People in ATL have the convenience of non-stops to lots of places (far more than CVG). Yet, they don't pay the same premiums that the people of CVG do. Why don't they pay more....because there is competition in ATL.

So in reality, it has little to do with convenience and more to do with dominance.


User currently offlineN908AW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 940 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 weeks ago) and read 5250 times:

Quoting N509JB (Reply 17):
And which airports do they have major hubs at where they are the only carriers?

DAL.



'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
User currently offlineEI747SYDNEY From Ireland, joined Oct 2005, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5123 times:

Quoting Indy (Thread starter):
What kind of route is that?

A very not so cheap awkward one..........

Rob



''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
User currently offlineDb373 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 244 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5018 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 2):
Some of the routes DL offers is absolutely amazing. My favorite is FLL to MIA

FLL-MCO-ATL-MIA & MIA-MCO-ATL-FLL

According to Google Maps its only 27 mile drive from MIA to FLL. Yet these routes will take you some 1400 miles each way.

Are you serious? I can't figure out whether this is a joke or not. MIA to FLL? Talk about going into extremes to bash an airline. I never thought I'd see the day when someone complained about the flight routing from MIA to FLL.



Keep Delta My Delta
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4580 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4899 times:

Quoting EI747SYDNEY (Reply 22):
A very not so cheap awkward one..........

Should call it the A.net Special for people looking for a lot of FF miles on a short trip  Smile

Quoting Db373 (Reply 23):
Are you serious? I can't figure out whether this is a joke or not. MIA to FLL? Talk about going into extremes to bash an airline. I never thought I'd see the day when someone complained about the flight routing from MIA to FLL.

The route isn't a joke in the sense that it doesn't exist. There was humor in finding a route like this. After finding that they would fly you through Florida when going from IND to CVG I had to see what other crazy routes they would fly. I don't know anyone that would fly when you could drive the 27 miles. Its funny that someone would even offer up a ticket for a route like that. I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the person walks up to the ticket counter to check in. I'm sure it would take a bit of restraint for the agent to not start laughing. You have to admit that the concept of flying from MIA to FLL is funny and that its even more funny when you consider flying that route through MCO & ATL.

Maybe that posted needed a few  Smile  Smile  Smile



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
25 Post contains images JFKLGANYC : Simplifares + Dehubbing at CVG = Fun routings!!! hehe Love DL! PJ One minute, it's not 'dehubbing', i believe it is called 'right-sizing' this week!
26 Post contains images Indy : I am so tempted to go down to Florida one weekend and getting that ticket out of Miami and flying to FLL. Getting a car and driving to MIA and going t
27 Post contains images I530j : DL's pricing and stops are crazy i was looking for a flight to ATL from MCO and it was one 350 per person o/w and two u would have to stop in JFK. I c
28 Db373 : Haha. Yeah, it really did. I was like "WTF is he talking about?!?!?" That would be an interesting experience though.
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