Sevenforeseven From France, joined Nov 2005, 164 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7460 times:
I am a passenger to DEL quite often and am surprised why do VS always fly the oldest aircraft to DEL not to mention BOM. The aircraft always have the old buisness class and crapped out IFE system. BA with the twice daily Delhi will rob the passengers. NOW is the time to put the best aircraft with the new interiors on the route to teach the compettitors what VS can do. I hope they do as VS is a superb airline but need to look after the Delhi passengers too!!!
Oh nearly forgot, the DEL and BOM aircraft are Virgin Nigeria liveried too.
TinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7163 times:
Well for starters, look up user name 'Ponmath' and he'll probably tell you everything there is to tell on G-VBUS which is the Virgin Nigeria A340 that mostly flies to BOM. The guy hates G-VBUS and VS with a passion.
Like Varig_dc10 said, check out that thread and you'll get your question answered.
Pomnath From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 1 day ago) and read 7124 times:
Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 4): Well for starters, look up user name 'Ponmath' and he'll probably tell you everything there is to tell on G-VBUS which is the Virgin Nigeria A340 that mostly flies to BOM. The guy hates G-VBUS and VS with a passion.
That is incorrect, I do not hate VS. Actually I love VS. It is just that I am unable to justify why they put the Nigerian aircraft on LHR-DEL route all the time.
Pomnath From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 6993 times:
Quoting Planeboy (Reply 8): Nothwest - DC-10-30, BOM
Saudi Arabian - 747-200, BOM / MAA
Thai Airways - AB6, BLR
and many more which I am not aware of
None of them, barring maybe TG, make the wild kind of hype and promises that VS does about its "service". That's the difference. When you fly NW or Saudia, you know the indifferent kind of service you will get and about the old aircraft that will operate. Likewise, Thai's reputation is also taking a nosedive.
Similarly, within domestic flights in India, you know that you will get reasonably old aircraft from Indian Airlines, mixed bag from Air Sahara, brand new planes from Jet Airways and Kingfisher, reasonably new planes from Deccan and efficient modern 737-800s from SpiceJet.
But VS? They put out these ads, SRB does the hype, and then you get . . . an old Nigerian airplane!
It is not just the age. It is also the potential liability issue.
Jaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6918 times:
Quoting Pomnath (Reply 11): Liability issues of the sort where, should anybody suffer any sort of injury or other damage on board, then are they governed by Indian, British or Nigerian laws?
Why would Nigeria have anything to do with the issue here?
Virgin Nigeria is a subsidiary of Virgin Atlantic; the maintenance and operation of the aircraft is done by Virgin Atlantic; the aircraft with its Virgin Nigeria livery is being operated as a Virgin Atlantic flight. Nigeria is basically an after thought here.
Jaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 6895 times:
Quoting Pomnath (Reply 13): Virgin Nigeria is a Joint Venture between Virgin Atantic and Nigeria, it is the official flag carrier of Nigeria.
Virgin Nigeria is Nigeria's private sector flag carrier51% owned by Nigerian institutional investors and 49% owned by Virgin Atlantic.
The Nigerian government has precious little to do with it.
Besides, the operation of the Virgin Nigeria A340 by Virgin Atlantic on a Virgin Atlantic flight pretty much puts the legal liability on Virgin Atlantic as governed by UK or Indian laws (depending on what the issue is). The Virgin Nigeria aircraft are also maintained and serviced by VS.
Lufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3169 posts, RR: 10 Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6867 times:
Quoting Sevenforeseven (Thread starter): I am a passenger to DEL quite often and am surprised why do VS always fly the oldest aircraft to DEL not to mention BOM. The aircraft always have the old buisness class and crapped out IFE system.
I'm sorry but this is such a typical wealthy Indian attitude. Get over it, India is not the centre of the universe, and although its got billions of ppl, and a hell of a lot of millionaires, it is not, and never will be, London, New York, Paris Hong kong or Tokyo. Wealthy indians (they're not alone...Nigerians etc of wealth tend to be just as bad) are so used to being waited on hand and foot they expect everybody and everycompany on the planet to drop to the feet and meet their every wish and demand. Well tough titties. Your own home grown companies aren't exactly that crash hot now are they? So maybe...before VS gets bashed, you guys should get on Air India's and friends backs. Seriously, VS sending an 8 yr, current generation aircraft is hardly doing tough. How old are the Boeing 733s and 734s that QF, BA and LH fly? Or the MD-80s that SK fly? Get real, is all i can say. and if you do have a major problem with it, simple...fly another airline.
Sevenforeseven From France, joined Nov 2005, 164 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 6828 times:
A bit strong Lufthansa. All I am trying to say is why VS do not use the Virgin Nigeria airplane on any other routes except India and understandably Nigeria. Lets not forget that they charge the same fare for the old business class as the new yet India do not get the new one.
Jaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 6705 times:
Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 15): Get over it, India is not the centre of the universe, and although its got billions of ppl, and a hell of a lot of millionaires, it is not, and never will be, London, New York, Paris Hong kong or Tokyo. Wealthy indians (they're not alone...Nigerians etc of wealth tend to be just as bad) are so used to being waited on hand and foot they expect everybody and everycompany on the planet to drop to the feet and meet their every wish and demand.
But wealthy Indians (and Nigerians) pay the same fares as wealthy New Yorkers, Parisians etc. So, they're entitled to having a Business Class product that is advertised with a fully functional IFE, just as much wealthy New Yorkers are. When you dish out $ 5000 for a Delhi-London ticket, the last thing you want is some twit telling you that Delhi ain Paris or Tokyo or that the $ 5000 dished out by some rich Delhi-ite aint got the same sheen as the same dough dished out by a Brit or an American.
If Virgin adopted the same attitude you have, they'll be flying empty from India very soon. I guess tough titties to them too.
And what does Air India have to do with any of this? When you pay the fare for a Virgin Business Class experience and receive a less than stellar experience, having said twit tell you that being Indian you should be used to Air India's J Class product is a racist idiotic rant that hopefully any sane airline wouldn't adopt.
Pomnath From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 6605 times:
Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 18): note my last reply in the "Virgin Atlantic, Flight Cancelled, What to do?" thread - i am sorry to say it but i have a feeling it might be true.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE
Why should you be sorry. You are correct. The more I think of it, the more Paris reminds me of Beirut. Yup, the bit where it says "Paris is Berut", sure. Especially where the cars are smelling . . . of burnt rubber and bad petrol.
AirxLIban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4503 posts, RR: 54 Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 6544 times:
Quoting Pomnath (Reply 19): Why should you be sorry. You are correct. The more I think of it, the more Paris reminds me of Beirut. Yup, the bit where it says "Paris is Berut", sure. Especially where the cars are smelling . . . of burnt rubber and bad petrol.
Kahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 6487 times:
Quoting Planeboy (Reply 8): Note, all these are high density / high yield routes and all these airllines have shiny new aircrafts. I wonder why they end up sending these a/cs.
Planeboy, India is a high density, not a high yield market. Check your facts and get back to us at a later time. Have you seen the scores of adverts in newspapers for cheap and discounted seats on Virgin from London, Air India from New York? Like I said, check your facts and let us know when you grasp the fact.
Quoting Pomnath (Reply 13): Virgin Nigeria is a Joint Venture between Virgin Atantic and Nigeria, it is the official flag carrier of Nigeria
Pomnath is at it again, he has hijacked yet another thread and turned it into an anti-Virgin Atlantic rally.
Quoting Jaysit (Reply 17): the last thing you want is some twit telling you that Delhi ain Paris or Tokyo or that the $ 5000 dished out by some rich Delhi-ite aint got the same sheen as the same dough dished out by a Brit or an American.
Airlines have flagship routes. Delhi and Bombay are flagship for no one airline with the exception of airlines from the Indian subcontinent. When you fly on Virgin Atlantic to Barbados, you dont expect the same glitz as one would on a route such as Los Angeles to London. When you fly Singapore Airlines from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore, you dont expect the same glitz as Hong Kong to San Francisco. When you fly Qantas from Melbourne to Perth, you dont expect the same glitz from Los Angeles to Melbourne. It is a reality. Airlines fly routes for one reason alone - money.
If Delhi and Bombay were such moneymakers - which they are not, then VS would expend a 747-400 on it. However fact of the matter is that India is not the great white way that many people explain it to be.
Something that you also may want to think about. A few years back when I was a Manager for the call center of an international consolidater here in the United States, the most requested seats to India were always, always on Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, and British Airways. As of recent I talked to a friend at the company and they stated yet again that Singapore, Cathay, and British were still the most requested. I asked about Virgin Atlantic, and he said that Virgin has many agreements with places such as STA Travel to offer the lowest fares in the market. When you have an airline offering a bulk number of seats to a company such as STA, you know the yields are not gleaming by any means.
Just be happy than Virgin Atlantic made a decision to fly to India. With passengers ranting and raving like Pomnath and his fellow countrymen, I can hardly see Virgin wanting to risk anything else on India.
TKMCE From India, joined May 2002, 841 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 6462 times:
Pomnath is also a platinum flyer in Sahara who has some aircraft which are even older than the Virgin Nigeria Aircraft.
Pomnath, I once flew BOM MAA on a Jet Airways A320 flight in 1997 (yes A320). I didnt get all hot and bothered that, despite purchasing a ticket- a full fare economy ticket mind you - no APEX at thst time -and directly from Jet airways ticket counter at the airport to boot - I ended up boarding a Gulf Air aircraft! (they had leased the aircraft briefly for a month) painted in GF colors and with GF interiors and defintely GF flight crew as well !This was in 1997 - long before the A340s came in! Neither did I see any other passenger on board the aircraft pick up a fight with the cabin crew (due to the breach of promise you know - an all Boeing airline putting pax on a 320- unbeleivable isnt it!).
[Edited 2005-11-07 17:26:26]
25 TKMCE: Edited for a wrong post. [Edited 2005-11-07 17:36:43][Edited 2005-11-07 17:38:46]
26 Pomnath: No, I am co-relating the situation in Paris with the situation in Beirut. No, you are the one with the signature below your message about Paris and B
27 TKMCE: Suggest you take a look at the accident investigation report of the GF 320 which went down in the sea a few years back.....! And come to think if it,
28 Cedarjet: There is no situation in Beirut, unless you mean the gorgeous girls, tempting cuisine, millenia of history and culture, high rise skyline, beautiful
29 Kahala777: Beirut and Lebanon are not going through a nationwide riot. You need look no futher than the slums and swallows of Calcutta, to see where there are m
30 AirIndiaOne: Is there a thread going around about this too? Any links etc ?
31 Blrsea: You are wrong my friend. Check this out, and you can google for more such links. Virgin in India slots appeal And your point about India routes not m
32 TPASXM787: Are you insinuating that an 8-year old A340 is unsafe? Wow... Big liability there...are you kidding? If you want a rattletrap/rustbucket go fly a 727.
33 Tinkerbelle: The link does not suggest VS 'got to their knees' and pleaded as Pomnath suggests.
34 AirxLiban: Not to nitpick, because I definitely agree with what you are saying but VBUS was built in 1993.
35 AngelAirways: Quite simply because they are racist. a bmi engineer was recently b*tching that the mumbai passengers are "ruining" the interiors of their A330s, jeal
36 TPASXM787: I never allow my math skills to get in my way.
37 Jaysit: Not any more. Check your own so-called facts. The reality is that First and Business Class cabins out of the high yield markets of Bombay and Delhi g
38 Blrsea: Why would they go on appeal if they weren't desperate? "got to their knees" is just a metaphor to indicate how desperate Virgin was on getting new ro
39 TinkerBelle: You should read up on Pomnath's thread "Virgin Atlantc, Flight Cancelled, What To Do?" to realize who is a racist here. I think calling someone a rac
40 Kahala777: Not with Bombay and Delhi originating passengers. The bulk of full fare paying passengers ex Virgin, are from what has been heard, of American and Eu
41 Sshank: Not sure where you are going with this - all this tells me is that Indian folk would rather give their money to a top tier airline than some pretende
42 Blrsea: Virgin flies to India because it can make good money there, not out of pity or charity. No airline will fly to any location till they are convinced i
43 Lufthansa: Kahala777's post was not racist.... not at any point. He was simply stating a commercial reality, and some of you lot don't like to face the fact tha
44 Pomnath: Nobody is saying VS can not or should not send old rattle-traps from Nigeria to their London - India route. Good for them if they can get away with it
45 Sshank: Lufthansa, I just went back and re-read everything Kahala has written on this thread looking for "first class analysis". You win. Your ability to spot
46 HAWK21M: Age of an aircraft is not a problem.Mx is.If Mx well a 20yr old aircraft can be more safer than a 4yr old one. I wonder why regds MEL
47 Cricket: My, my. And I had a post deleted because I called white people by the term we usually call them out here. Well, some people just don't get that India
48 HAWK21M: Its called Illinformed.Most probably think Indians Are Snake rope charmers & sing on the streets of Mumbai regds MEL
49 AirxLiban: I don't know, have you tried asking Virgin? I doubt they'd admit it because it would be bad PR. They can only get away with it so long as people don'
50 Pomnath: I agree as a fairly loyal CD customer who enjoyed the B-737-200s on my regular commute route till 9W and S2 and now 0S came along with their newer 73
51 AirIndiaOne: This thread is not going anywhere...I suggest deletion! Enough has been said here.
52 Jaysit: First of all, what difference does it make? Most of the Concorde flights to the US were packed with Americans. The measure of a route isn't who flies
53 LH477: That is incorrect. Virgin flies to a few "third world" countries.... Nigeria China (still "third world") Jamaica(slated for 2006) Cuba Trinidad and T