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TAM Full Codeshare With AA On JFK-GRU-GIG  
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5010 times:

TAM announced that it has finished negotiations with AA and its newest international flight JFK-GRU-GIG A330, which will start this week, will operate in full codeshare with AA.

It also means AA is one step closer to OW.

My question: why is TAM using VS lounge in JFK and not AA lounge?

Rgs,

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5001 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
It also means AA is one step closer to OW.

Of course, I mean TAM is one step closer to OW...


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5007 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 1):
TAM is one step closer to OW

I surely hope so. JJ would be the perfect addition to oneworld. The recent inklings that JJ requested LHR slots, and that they have finally gotten a deal squared away with AA over JFK-GRU gives me definite hopes!

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
My question: why is TAM using VS lounge in JFK and not AA lounge?

TAM probably does not want to put its high-yielding customers on a brand new route to a brand new city into the sh*t box that is AA's international terminal at JFK. This will all, of course, be rectified when AA's international ops move over to the new AA terminal in 2007, but until then, I doubt any airline is really going to be excited to add service to that horrendous facility. AY just stays because they have a great deal going with AA and are not in as much of a hurry to move, as they face no competition on the JFK-HEL route.


User currently offlineMIASkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1340 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4976 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 2):
TAM probably does not want to put its high-yielding customers on a brand new route to a brand new city into the sh*t box that is AA's international terminal at JFK. This will all, of course, be rectified when AA's international ops move over to the new AA terminal in 2007, but until then, I doubt any airline is really going to be excited to add service to that horrendous facility. AY just stays because they have a great deal going with AA and are not in as much of a hurry to move, as they face no competition on the JFK-HEL route

UM... what about the brand new terminal that AA just opened a couple months ago @ JFK, I flew in there on 762 from MIA and the Terminal is quite nice! very modern and spacious...Yea they still have flights leaving from the old terminal but the new terminal is quite nice... not a "sh*t box" at all!



Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4953 times:

Quoting MIASkies (Reply 3):
not a "sh*t box" at all!

I was referring to the old terminal, Terminal 8, which is where all of AA's international departures and arrivals still are (and will be for a while). If JJ were to use AA's facilities, they would be in Terminal 8, which definitely is a sh*t box (I feel most AA flyers would agree me on that). Yes, the new terminal is beautiful, and well-designed, but it will not be handling international flights for months or years.


User currently offlineWillyj From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4914 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
I was referring to the old terminal, Terminal 8, which is where all of AA's international departures and arrivals still are (and will be for a while).

I believe all of their int'l arrivals are in Terminal 8 because the customs area in the new terminal hasn't opened yet - or even been built yet? However, not all international departures are from T8. I know that most days AA's flight to NRT departs from the new Terminal 9.

JJ could have had passengers arrive into T8 and then tow the plane to a gate at T9 for departing passengers, but I guess they felt that flying into terminal 4 was a better option.

Is BA's Terminal 7 full at the times JJ would need to use it? I would have thought that would be the most likely place for them to start operations seeing as OW carriers BA, QF, CX, and IB all operate their intercontinental flights from there.

I think I'm jumping the gun a bit though, JJ isn't even in OW yet...


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4912 times:

Quoting Willyj (Reply 5):
However, not all international departures are from T8. I know that most days AA's flight to NRT departs from the new Terminal 9.


The last two days, AA167 JFK-NRT has departed from Terminal 8.

Quoting Willyj (Reply 5):
Is BA's Terminal 7 full at the times JJ would need to use it?

Arriving before 0600 in the morning would be no problem, as BA's T7 is pretty much empty around that time (all that leaves in the morning is BA178, the 0900 departure to LHR). However, leaving T7 at 1830 at night would be a major problem, as this is right in the peak of BA's evening LHR/MAN schedule.

[Edited 2005-11-08 04:22:55]

User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4887 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 1):
TAM is one step closer to OW...

In addition, JJ is farther from SkyTeam, as time passes by they neglect their partnership with AF.

And now that JAL has just been announced as new member of OW, we can count JL-JJ agreement on this analysis.



Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4774 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Something interesting is that on sundays, the flight departs from JFK on the morning and the VS lounge is closed (opens in the afternoon). Tam will not offer a lounge facility for their business and First class customers on sundays.
On the days AA runs the flight, i believe their customers could use AA Admirals Club. This is a little confused, i imagine a FF customer, some days check in is on T4, others on T7.

TAM keep as one of the few airlines that does not grant access to lounges to their top customers (only if they fly C or F classes).

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineJJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4764 times:

TAM A332´s are going to operate at Terminal 04. By the way an important comment. The arrangements of the code-share with AA were done, allowing TAM to sell also AA flights, but the oposite is not true. AA will not sell pax on TAM´s flight.
Expectations is to TAM operate daily A332 from April next year, when PT-MVA still leased to Ethyhad will return to own TAM´s operations.

Cheers,


User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4755 times:

Any info about IFE of PT-MVA?


Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11116 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4741 times:

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 9):
TAM A332´s are going to operate at Terminal 04. By the way an important comment. The arrangements of the code-share with AA were done, allowing TAM to sell also AA flights, but the oposite is not true. AA will not sell pax on TAM´s flight.

So it will be like the existing arrangement on MIA-GRU-MIA daylight flights? The AA code will not be carried on the JJ flight, but JJ will continue to place its code on the AA flight JFK-GRU-JFK?


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4710 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 10):
Any info about IFE of PT-MVA?

Yes, PT-MVA shows IFE on all the seats, but without AVOD resource.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 11):
So it will be like the existing arrangement on MIA-GRU-MIA daylight flights?

Commavia, the AA and JJ dailylight GRU-MIA-GRU are not code-shared. They keep the code-share only for the night flights between GRU/GIG and MIA.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineWillyj From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4681 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
Arriving before 0600 in the morning would be no problem, as BA's T7 is pretty much empty around that time (all that leaves in the morning is BA178, the 0900 departure to LHR).

America west operates flights from BA's side of T7 in the morning, and NH has a flight to NRT at about 11am if I remember correctly. Regardless, aren't JJ hoping to operate the JFK-GRU flight in the evening most days? I could be wrong about this, as I think I remember that they are operating at least one daytime flight per week - sunday if lipegig is correct. What time in the evening are they hoping to leave. T7 is pretty packed from 6;30pm until 8 or 9pm. Would they be later than 9pm?


User currently offlineJog From Netherlands, joined Jul 2005, 273 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4661 times:

Quoting Willyj (Reply 13):
Would they be later than 9pm?

No, actually they will will be leaving already at 6:00pm Mon, Wed,Fri (arriving 6.30am in GRU) and at 7:30am on Sundays (arriving at 8pm at GRU).

Cheers


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4632 times:

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 9):
The arrangements of the code-share with AA were done, allowing TAM to sell also AA flights, but the oposite is not true. AA will not sell pax on TAM´s flight.

Why this arrangement? Which airline has more advantage under this arrangement, TAM or AA?

Quoting Jog (Reply 14):
No, actually they will will be leaving already at 6:00pm Mon, Wed,Fri (arriving 6.30am in GRU) and at 7:30am on Sundays (arriving at 8pm at GRU).

As mentioned above, TAM flights will go daily and all red-eye as of April/06.

Rgs,


User currently offlineJJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4611 times:

Think it is better to TAM as it can go to the amrket and sell a daily flight iso 4 x /week.

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4560 times:

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 9):
The arrangements of the code-share with AA were done, allowing TAM to sell also AA flights, but the oposite is not true

So why did AA agree on the arrangement? What is AA getting out of it if it cannot sell JJ tickets!?

I dont think your information proceeds. A codeshare means AA also putting its code on JJ flight and therefore selling tickets on it.

Rgs,


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8873 posts, RR: 40
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4556 times:

Maybe JJ is relying solely on O&D from NYC (AA said no or whatever reason), meaning no codeshare for connections out of JFK, but AA gets connections out of GRU with JJ as part of the agreement?

Wild speculation.....

Cheers



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4546 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
So why did AA agree on the arrangement? What is AA getting out of it if it cannot sell JJ tickets!?

Hardi, nowadays the only condition in Brazil to buy AA code-shared JJ tickets is payment at sight (effective nov. 1st). It's a very good deal to AA take money at sight. Also AA can show its product to JJ customers.
AA probably has no interest in expose their customers (specially Business Class) to TAM A332 with lie-seats.

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 18):
Maybe JJ is relying solely on O&D from NYC (AA said no or whatever reason), meaning no codeshare for connections out of JFK, but AA gets connections out of GRU with JJ as part of the agreement?

This is part of the code-share, TAM can connect thru DFW and MIA , and AA could connect thru GRU and GIG. JFK is really a strong O&D market.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32176 posts, RR: 72
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 17):
Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 9):
The arrangements of the code-share with AA were done, allowing TAM to sell also AA flights, but the oposite is not true

So why did AA agree on the arrangement? What is AA getting out of it if it cannot sell JJ tickets!?

It's a good thing for AA. Passengers typically perfer TAM's service and comfort, so AA won't have to worry about passengers booking the TAM service with the AA* code. This is why AA/JJ don't codeshare on the daylight MIA-(SSA)-GRU flights.



a.
User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4547 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 18):
Maybe JJ is relying solely on O&D from NYC (AA said no or whatever reason), meaning no codeshare for connections out of JFK, but AA gets connections out of GRU with JJ as part of the agreement?

Wild speculation.....

Good remark!!!

AA code-shares the following JJ routes in domestic:

FOR-SSA-GRU
LDB-CWB-GRU
CGB-CGR-GRU
FLN-CWB-GRU
SSA-GRU
FOR-GRU
VIX-GRU
CNF-GRU
IGU-GRU
REC-GRU
NAT-GRU
--------
CNF-GIG
BSB-GIG

=======================
And TAM code-shares these routes with AA in domestic:

MIA-IAD
MIA-BOS
MIA-PHL
MIA-DTW
MIA-ATL
MIA-IAH
MIA-DEN
MIA-LAX

DFW-ORD
DFW-SFO
DFW-DEN
DFW-LAX

So... You may be correct: they're relying on O&D.
DFW is served by code-share only (currently same status of JFK) and has onwards code-shared flights, but not from JFK.



Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4540 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 21):
And TAM code-shares these routes with AA in domestic:

In fact TAM code-shares 29 cities with AA:
Seattle, Portland, Salt Lake City, Denver, San Francisco, Las Vegas, San Jose, Los Angeles, Phoenix, San Diego, Houston, New Orleans, Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville, Nashville, Atlanta, Indianapolis, Saint Louis, Chicago, Minneapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, Washington D.C, Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York and Boston

Source: TAM Magazine November 2005  Smile

Regards
Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineBrasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4521 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):
In fact TAM code-shares 29 cities with AA:

Then they seem to fail in advertisement:





Varig, Varig, Varig
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3964 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4490 times:

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 23):
Then they seem to fail in advertisement:

Apparently they don't even know where Los Angeles is!


25 PPVRA : LOL! Atlanta, Detroit, Dallas and Boston are way off as well! At least Detroit is in the right state. Cheers[Edited 2005-11-10 02:17:49]
26 LipeGIG : In fact they have two different informations, but you can search on the main page for the 29 cities. Probably the initial agreement has been increase
27 Post contains images Brasuca : Well, JFK is already shown in the map as a destination served by TAM, so I think it was in fact a map for ""the future"".
28 TBCITDG : Wouldn't LA have something to say if JJ where to join the OW alliance? I am sure that they would be up in arms, should JJ join. It would be the same p
29 Hardiwv : But at the end they had to share the market. You have to keep into perspective that Brazil is half the market of the region; to a certain extend, it
30 Brasuca : Wow.. So, is this really going to be Heathrow? How are they managing to get slots? BTW, I've read many news regarding GRU-LIM still this year, togeth
31 Hardiwv : Sorry, he said LONDON and not LHR. I dont think TAM will operate out of LGW; they must be playing their cards to get the slots in LHR. TAM, as a prem
32 JJMNGR : LIM will start in code-share with TACA in DEC and with own flights in APR/06.
33 Hardiwv : Most certainly TAM will use TA codeshare to offer flights from LIM to Andean Countries and Central America through TA hub in LIM, and the same for TA
34 Brasuca : Thanks for details. Will TAM offer onwards code-share from LIM to UIO with TACA? I'm not sure as to deep South America, because TACA already flies to
35 Aisak : Yes yes yes... sure sure sure And the rest of OW Frequent Flyer members have to cope with the "LAN affiliates Lan Ecuador and Lan Argentina are not m
36 Hardiwv : ASU would be an interesting code-shared destination for TA. SCL of course would not even make sense since GRU would make a detour of the route... Not
37 Post contains images Brasuca : ASU seems to be better connected via VVI (with PZ), rather than detouring at GRU. Yet, most of Central American countries will still be better connec
38 ContinentalEWR : American Airlines is operating very few international flights from Terminal 9. For now, it seems Brussels, Aruba, and one other city are going out of
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