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Virgin, United Airlines In Heathrow Deal  
User currently offlineFA4UA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 812 posts, RR: 20
Posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 13398 times:

According to a very poorly written article dated 07NOV05 in the FT, UA and VS have come to some sort of an agreement for slot leasing at LHR. The article doesn't say who's leasing the slots from who and where they'll be using them for. Very frustrating to see this nebulous article especially from such a news leader like the FT.

Does anyone have any other info on this subject?

FA4UA

Sorry if this is a duplicate subject/post... i did search first!


The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
112 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 13329 times:

It I believe was the release of the slot for the second daily, now cancelled JFK-LHR flight operated by United Airlines.

KAHALA777


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11432 posts, RR: 61
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 13292 times:

United will be leasing a single pair of slots to Virgin.

From the article:

Virgin Atlantic, the UK long-haul airline controlled by Sir Richard Branson, has agreed a deal with United Airlines of the US on a five-year lease of a pair of take-off and landing slots at London Heathrow, one of the world's most congested airports.

It goes on to discuss United's very active trading in the Heathrow slot "grey market," having sold two slot pairs to BA last year, leased one pair to Jet this year, and now leasing this pair to Virgin for five years.

As Kahala said, this is most likely the slot that will be freed up by the loss of United's second LHR-JFK-LHR flight.


User currently offlinePomnath From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12966 times:

This grey trading market in slots, sounds a bit like buying a title of nobility in England, but is so typical.

Unused slots should be surrendered and re-sold by the BAA.


User currently offlineBeany From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12827 times:

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 3):
This grey trading market in slots, sounds a bit like buying a title of nobility in England, but is so typical.

Get over it will you, next you will be trying to include Prince Harry in this as you usually do.

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 3):
Unused slots should be surrendered and re-sold by the BAA.

BAA have nothing to do with the slots at LHR. There is nothing wrong with United leasing slots to other airlines. It happens all the time.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12703 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 3):
Unused slots should be surrendered and re-sold by the BAA.

And why should UA do that and loose money when they purchased the slots?


User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12693 times:

The real story isn't about a poxy pair of slots at Heathrow but the reformation of the slot-allocation procedures which Brussels is trying to organise.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12667 times:

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 3):
Unused slots should be surrendered and re-sold by the BAA.

Unused Heathrow slots for US flights by US carriers should not be permitted to be leased to any non-US carrier. If we have to be bound by this damn Bermuda2 crap, then it is beyond stupid that such a coveted destination for US carriers be robbed from us because the custodian of those slots is in BK and can't handle them.

Let CO or US fly there already and end all this crap.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 12446 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
Unused Heathrow slots for US flights by US carriers should not be permitted to be leased to any non-US carrier. If we have to be bound by this damn Bermuda2 crap

Other than the fact that slots (as far as I'm aware, but stand to be corrected) have nothing to do with Bermuda II, who do you propose should be able to ban either UA or any other airline from leasing/selling slots which they themselves purchased?


User currently offlineSparkingWave From South Korea, joined Jun 2005, 670 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 12412 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
Bermuda2 crap

You misunderstand Bermuda 2. It restricts the number of US Airlines flying into Heathrow, not the number of slots. Other airlines can fly to London, just not Heathrow, so what's your real complaint?

United has the right to do what it well pleases with slots that it purchased fairly and squarely from Pan Am. It's in UA's best interests to lease them if they can't make money from them.

SparkingWave



Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12340 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 12355 times:

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 9):
United has the right to do what it well pleases with slots that it purchased fairly and squarely from Pan Am.



Quoting Beany (Reply 4):
BAA have nothing to do with the slots at LHR.

Sorry if this is a FAQ, but who did issue the original leases on slots that we are talking about? On what terms? If UA is sub-leasing slots that were granted to Pan Am, the original leases must be very long term. Can they be revoked? Under what circumstances?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinePomnath From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 12353 times:

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 8):
Other than the fact that slots (as far as I'm aware, but stand to be corrected) have nothing to do with Bermuda II, who do you propose should be able to ban either UA or any other airline from leasing/selling slots which they themselves purchased



Quoting Beany (Reply 4):
Get over it will you, next you will be trying to include Prince Harry in this

Yeah, I know, tel me about it. Something like the British Government handing over the rights to the Chagos Archipelago to the US, right? Is that where Prince Harry comes in, by the way, the Colonial Vee Sold Itt Because Vee Can bit?

Quoting Beany (Reply 4):
BAA have nothing to do with the slots at LHR. There is nothing wrong with United leasing slots to other airlines. It happens all the time.

Yup, and the tax-paying British public pays the bills. That's cool.


User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2148 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 12297 times:

OK, but what about the $$$?

What are the terms of the lease? Does anyone know?

And what is the going rate if UA had wanted to sell the slots?


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4426 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11800 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
Unused Heathrow slots for US flights by US carriers should not be permitted to be leased to any non-US carrier. If we have to be bound by this damn Bermuda2 crap, then it is beyond stupid that such a coveted destination for US carriers be robbed from us because the custodian of those slots is in BK and can't handle them.

Let CO or US fly there already and end all this crap.

Scary, but I agree in principle with Ikramerica!


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11574 times:

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 3):
This grey trading market in slots, sounds a bit like buying a title of nobility in England, but is so typical.

Unused slots should be surrendered and re-sold by the BAA.

Pomnath, the forum Elitest is at work yet again!  headache 

For your information United Airlines is leasing the slots to the highest bidder. There is not one single US airline that is in financial shape to be purchasing slots at Heathrow. Perhaps there is a time when that may happen, but for now as nearly all US airlines in a financial crisis it is not going to happen. Furthermore, why should United offer a slot to its competition in North America?

KAHALA777


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4743 posts, RR: 45
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11491 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
Let CO or US fly there already and end all this crap.

Why CO or US and not DL may I ask?



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4002 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11472 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
Unused Heathrow slots for US flights by US carriers should not be permitted to be leased to any non-US carrier. If we have to be bound by this damn Bermuda2 crap, then it is beyond stupid that such a coveted destination for US carriers be robbed from us because the custodian of those slots is in BK and can't handle them.

Let CO or US fly there already and end all this crap.

Agreed 100%. It's time for CO, US, DL and NW to drag the Brit butts into a WTO court and end this nonsense.


User currently offlinePomnath From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11462 times:

a) You lease or buy a slot from BAA for your own use.

b) After some time, you don't want to, or can't, use the slot anymore.

c) So then you resell the slot at a profit.

Q1- why run an airline, why not just trade slots.
Q2- why subsidise BAA, if they can't look after their own slots.
Q3- why return Hong Kong to the Chinese? (oops, wrong forum).

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 14):
Pomnath, the forum Elitest is at work yet again!

Excuse me?


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11220 times:

Quoting Pomnath (Reply 17):
Excuse me?

You have a deep seeded hatred for Virgin Atlantic as can be seen in any forum you try to hijack!

KAHALA777


User currently offlineB777A340Fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 765 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11200 times:

Okay kids, let's behave now....What I'm wondering is how many slots is UAL left with after it sells/leases left and right. Do any of you oh-wise wo/men know?  Cool

User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 43
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11115 times:

Pomnath,

You're quite the guy here... I have been laughing at your trash for days.

G-VBUS is a Nigerian aircraft I understood. Care to tell me why it's in the British registry if it's indeed Nigerian??

UA sure can sell the slots to me and my start up European airline (if only I had one...). What the H*ll does BAA have to do with this? If I have a $100 note, sure I can exchange it at any bank I please. If UA has a pair of slots, sure UA can lease them to Orient Thai, Jetstar Asia or Finncomm Airlines for what I care??



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11093 times:

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 19):
What I'm wondering is how many slots is UAL left with after it sells/leases left and right


Current Slot Estimations
(10-11)

Destinations: JFK, LAX, SFO, ORD, IAD

Past Slot Estimations
(20-18)

Destinations: BOS, JFK, EWR, MIA, SEA, SFO, LAX, ORD, DEL, BRU



KAHALA777

[Edited 2005-11-08 17:14:59]

User currently offlineBAflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11041 times:

Quoting AF022 (Reply 12):
And what is the going rate if UA had wanted to sell the slots?

I'd be interested to know as well.

I'm sure the actual details are shrouded in secrecy but does anyone know ballpark figures for

1) How much a pair of slots might be worth outright
2) and now much VS might be paying to lease them



Most frustrating part of being an atheist - Never being able to say "Told you so".
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11432 posts, RR: 61
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10879 times:

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 19):
What I'm wondering is how many slots is UAL left with after it sells/leases left and right.

It will be 11 daily slot-pairs (11 arrivals/11 departures):

3x IAD*
3x ORD
2x SFO
1x JFK
1x LAX

*Note: IAD goes to 4x daily for summer 2006


User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10843 times:

Quoting BAflyer (Reply 22):
Quoting AF022 (Reply 12):
And what is the going rate if UA had wanted to sell the slots?

I'd be interested to know as well.

I'm sure the actual details are shrouded in secrecy but does anyone know ballpark figures for

1) How much a pair of slots might be worth outright

Qantas bought a pair of slots not so long ago from Flybe for something in the region of 20 million pounds....a record i believe.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
25 Stitch : I believe UA received around $20 million for the two slots they sold to BA. So a five year lease is probably worth a few million a year (which is sad
26 UAcosCS : If you have an asset like a LHR slot, why do you have to sell it if not used? I have an extra car I use very seldom, do I have to sell it because I d
27 Cornish : Because the airport is so constrained, there are rules that if slots aren't used they can be reallocated. Explains why BA and VS did a deal not so lo
28 MichiganMAN : Why the British? Didn't the Americans agree to Bermuda II also?
29 ManchesterMAN : Where will VS use this slot pair to fly to? DXB maybe? I would imagine UA might "ask" VS not to use the slot on a route which UA serves as this could
30 Cornish : VS couldn't fly to any new routes in the US at present under Bermuda II, but to be honest they have their sights on new destinations away from the US
31 Post contains images Lightsaber : aagh! Just build the ^&%# third runway at LHR and offer another 50% more slots at auction. Maybe do a few auctions separated by two or three years. Of
32 Commavia : Exactly! Stop all of the damn arguing, bickering, forums, discussions, speeches, environmental impact studies, white papers, etc., and please stop wi
33 MichiganMAN : If a third runway is built, and all slots are used and a new Heathrow is busting at the seams again, then what? When does the expansion stop?
34 Egmcman : If only it was that simple to build an additional runway. You don't seem to appreciate the affect it will have on peoples lives and their write to ap
35 UAcosCS : I agree with what you're saying. Kind of what I was saying is that they just stopped the JFK-LHR route, leasing them(slot) is an easier way to show u
36 Nighthawk : This From The Free Dictionary (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Heathrow%20Airport) Whilst the cost of a landing slot is determined by the CA
37 VV701 : EU law - that takes precedence over UK law - states that industrial and commercial development is forbidden in any area where atmospheric pollution e
38 Commavia : When there is no more room to expand. Right now, Heathrow could be expanded to a third runway with a relatively minimal impact on the people around H
39 Iowa744Fan : Kahala, Don't forget the flight over to AMS. Did the British exactly have a chance? Were they to go to war or try to give up just the New Territories
40 AirNZ : Pomnath, what on earth nonsense are you talking about now.......and what exactly has your post got to do with my reply 8???? Am I missing something h
41 Post contains images Boysteve : Thats a lot of money just to operate a 146 shuttle to MAN
42 MichiganMAN : There is ALWAYS room to expand......... if you can make an arguement to rip down peoples houses, can't you therefore make an arguement to divert the
43 Daron4000 : I thought that VS flew to ORD and could, with the slots, start it at any time they wanted to. I don't think that this would hurt AA or UA, but rather
44 Commavia : I'm sorry, but with all due respect, this is a ridiculous argument. Should we not expand highways in dense urban areas in the U.S., like New York, Bo
45 Lufthansa747 : Just make it . Don't bitch about noise and this and that. Decent compensation to the fokls and double the slots.
46 Post contains images Revelation : Nighthawk, you da man! Great web page. It also avoids the Government deciding to just lease the slots one year at a time, and allocating those leases
47 MichiganMAN : why? I can book a flight into Heathrow tomorrow on expedia if I wanted to. It's not like ALL flights to London are booked up weeks in advance and peo
48 UA772IAD : Two Questions: 1) Do the slots have to be specific routes into LHR (such as the second JFK UA is leasing out), or can it be from anywhere in the US? I
49 AirBuffalo : Sounds like a pretty standard move under bankruptcy ... sell off non-core assets to solidify the bottom line. In this case they leased slots that are
50 Wdleiser : And then have BA flying to all the other destinations in the US nonstop that they cannot do now? Like Nonstop to IAH. Then have Heathrow routes becom
51 Daron4000 : As I asked already, isn't it legal under Bermuda II to fly to a destination in the US previously served by VS and not anymore i.e Chicago?
52 WhiteHatter : Nice to see you are keeping up your standards of cluelessness as ever. Slots are effectively bookings to use runways at certain times. Bermuda Two ha
53 Post contains images Lightsaber : London was built on trade. Airtravel is still part of today's trade. As LHR is the preferred business airport... Correct. But recall that about 50% o
54 AirNZ : Is it.......I suppose the US would do it differently?
55 Commavia : Not necessarily. In some cases, yes, in some cases, no. However, I would definitely say that -- generally speaking -- the layers of bureaucracy and "
56 AirNZ : I'm sorry, but some of these replies I'm finding just incredible!! No disrespect to Americans intended, but some of you are sitting there trying to m
57 AirNZ : No, I never thought of it as a US v's UK thing. What I'm referring to is there is only limited expansion possible at Heathrow, it's not infinite and
58 Commavia : No one is saying that it is infinite, or that we should just plow over the Parliament to add a ninth runway at Heathrow. Everyone understand that lan
59 Pomnath : So, if UA sells a "free slot" to VS, then in effect the British public lose 20 million pounds? Wow. That's great. Now they have to increase council t
60 Richard28 : No, the airline that originally paid for it, gets a return (and hopefully a profit) for what they paid for it. It is a private arrangement and costs
61 CO767FA : If LHR is as hot a market, why can't UAL support more flights there after reorganizing? If it is so desirable, why sell or lease any slots?
62 Richard28 : I'd guess Chapter 11 has a lot to do with this - it helps give a big instant cash boost to the balance sheet. UA are being a bit smart here, as they
63 Lightsaber : Hmmm... 45 operations/hour/runway * 14 hours (std. airport day) * 20 million pounds/pair* 1 pair/2operations= 6,300,000,000 pounds! Ok, while I doubt
64 JoFMO : I don't think that a new airport is a solution. There are enough other airports around London with enough space. With STN getting it's parrallel runwa
65 Richard28 : You are absolutely right, but our government went for the wimpish idea of expanding Stansted first - to appease the green folk (who still are not hap
66 Post contains images Ikramerica : Slots do have "something to do with it" as if another US airline were allowed to fly to LHR, you wouldn't see UA cutting their flights in half to LHR
67 Ikramerica : I've reported this comment to the proper authorities. You have no basis for making such comments, and should stop behaving in such a childish manner.
68 Wdleiser : USA-LHR flights are so successful in a large part due to the limited capacity allowed on the routes. If you were to allow more airlines to operate on
69 Pomnath : But Oh Wise the 28 says it costs the British taxpayer nothing? That's 63 followed by 8 zeroes worth of bathwater flushed down . . . Ma'an, soon the t
70 Scotron11 : Perhaps, the long term goal should be a new airport where it doesn't affect so many things. And exactly what would happen if they did that? Exactly t
71 Post contains images Richard28 : can you explain? your first sentence says that the UK should get some sort of revenue from slots, and the second contradicts this by saying that in t
72 MichiganMAN : I think you read my post completely out of context.
73 Pomnath : a) What I mean is this:- The British government can collect on the premium for slots, which belong to Britain, but would rather give it as a gift to
74 Richard28 : Thanks for the clarification Pomnath. Interesting analogy. I'd expand a little on this however: a) the slots do not belong to Britain, as when BAA was
75 Post contains links BuyantUkhaa : Secondary slot trading is not typical for England. Is official policy at 4 US airports too: JFK, LGA, ORD and DCA. See for example www.usdoj.gov/atr/
76 An-225 : UA leased the slot. When their financial situation becomes better, they will have an option to take it back. Alex.
77 HunUtazo : by proxy.... cal, ....02/20/06.[Edited 2005-11-10 20:31:39]
78 Wdleiser : You seem to not realize United is making money flying in to Heathrow. They are just not making money from JFK into Heathrow. Speak for yourself, but
79 Brilondon : The expansion will never stop. Unfortunately if you want a viable industry you have to be able to grow and expand. What London needs is a clear plan
80 Aerofan : Actually, VS will be flying to the US with the new slots. I have it on good authourity that they will be flying to a destination that they already ser
81 Post contains images Kahala777 : Zero presence at JFK? 610AM WASHINGTON D.C. CRJ 645AM SAN FRANCISCO 757-200 705AM LOS ANGELES 757-200 755AM SAN FRANCISCO 757-200 800AM WASHINGTON D.
82 Post contains images Kahala777 : At what airport.....??????? FYI - Delta Airlines and Northwest Airlines and Indy Air and ATA and .. and UAL are all in the poor house.... United howe
83 Gkpetery : The British leased Hong Kong for 99 years... why shouldn't United lease out the slots at Heathrow... wasn't like UA stole them from someone.
84 Pomnath : The British "ruled" or "occupied" the Chagos Archiplago while ruling India as "British Indian Ocean territories" for a few decades, and then "leased"
85 Vfw614 : To get a few things straight: In the EU, slots are not the property of an airline. Consequently, they cannot be sold. What happens in the EU is that a
86 VV701 : I think three points need to be clarified. First the slots at LHR have never belonged to BAA. The slots at LHR have never been allocated by BAA. The s
87 JoFMO : I never heard about the given legastlative law from the EU here in Germany. I am sure that it exist, but it doesn't seem to be a problem here. Althoug
88 Boysteve : There are not many 'British' cars. In the UK there are many more German vehicles than British! A significant amount of the pollution comes from vehic
89 POmnath : Thank you. Typically, what are the commercially unusable/unviable timings like, where can I find out more about them please?
90 Leskova : With all this biting-other-member's-heads-off going on here, just keep one thing in mind: Opening a new runway at London Heathrow will not, in itself,
91 JoFMO : No intention to insult British cars. I just wonder why this problem is only around LHR and I never have heard of it anywhere else. There are only two
92 Wdleiser : Thank you Frank for making the most knowledgable post in this entire topic. You hit the nail right on the money.
93 WAH64D : What a load of total crap!!! YOUR government agreed to Bermuda II as much as ours did. I find the notion of Bermuda II as stupid as you do. UA can't
94 Jbmitt : Actually just 2 now..the crosswind runway has been deactivated and is now a taxiway.
95 WAH64D : Agreed, as per my previous post:
96 AirNZ : From yout point of view I could very well have and, if so, then you certainly have my unreserved apology for any offence. As in any walk of life, peo
97 AirNZ : I usually find your posts to be interesting and informative but, with respect, I am genuinely lost concerning your argument and feel it to be very ab
98 Commavia : No, you are the one who is sadly mistaken. I find it quite funny that you are saying others are "sadly mistaken" for thinking that opening up LHR wou
99 Boysteve : Yes, you've got me wondering now. Maybe its to do with the metropolitan area, London obviously being significant larger than Frankfurt
100 WAH64D : So you think UA and AA would actually be happy to see other US carriers taking a share of their market? I don't think so. They are not interested in
101 Post contains images Commavia : If LHR was expanded and opened up, with more slots and terminal capacity opened to them equally as to the new entrants, I don't think they would have
102 VV701 : The most obvious are Saturday afternoons and Sunday mornings particularly early Sunday mornings. Check out the timetables for any major LHR operator
103 JoFMO : It not a factor of size. The pollution occurs in this certain area around LHR because of the airport, the M25 and M4 motorways, the surrounding popul
104 Wdleiser : BA and VS have a better advantage over UA and AA from Heathrow. AA and UA are having to fly from several airports into one airport. BA and VS have the
105 VV701 : But how often to UA and AA have to ferry aircraft from LHR to LGW or from LGW to LHR because of the constraints of Bermuda 2? I guess it is swings an
106 WAH64D : Right, so if its not a plum market, why are so many of your airlines bickering about being able to fly there?
107 Post contains images Beany : The M25 between the M4 and M3 (which goes past LHR) is the busiest motorway section in Europe. Also know as the busiest car park
108 Post contains images Revelation : I agree. Every time I've been in Frankfurt, the motorway is busy but moving, whereas at Heathrow it's stopped, and adding another lane to M25 would b
109 Commavia : Becuase it's the most prestigous market in Europe, and perhaps the world, to fly to. Please, WAH64D, don't misunderstand me -- I am not in any way di
110 Aerofan : gosh darn it - one would think that flying into lhr is the answer to what ails the us airline industry.
111 WAH64D : While I disagree with you as to the economics of more US operators flying into LHR, I respect the maturity of your post. People like Glideslope would
112 Incitatus : Last time I flew BA there were so many flight attendants in the plane they were clogging the aisle. Likely just the tip of their inefficiency iceberg
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