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A Tripledeck 747 Successor/A380 Competitor?  
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6537 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19475 times:

I'm wondering, how do you like the idea of a tripledeck 747 successor/A380 competitor if the 747 Advanced fails. The aircraft would have two full decks and one partial deck, and would be made largely of composites.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19427 times:

I'd like to see a single deck-er that is three times wider that a 747, with smaller wings.  Wink

I'm not sure if "vertical" is the most efficient direction to expand an airplane.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31003 posts, RR: 86
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19394 times:
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At that point, you might as well go blended-wing. Plenty of space for folks and their stuff and the fuel to carry them anywhere in the world non-stop.

User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 19379 times:

Why? Have you got one?

User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19351 times:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 1):
I'm not sure if "vertical" is the most efficient direction to expand an airplane.

It's not about vertical or not. We know, one good shape is the round fuse cross section. However, if you increase diameter, you also get a higher fuse and more and more unusable room below the cargo deck and over the main deck. A wider fuse than that of the 747 just doesn't make sense on a single decker.

Therefore Airbus went for a double decker with the A380. Since the floors add some stability it was also possible to go for an oval cross section. Somebody who wants an even larger a/c than the WhaleJet can go for a round cross section and longer fuse before adding a third deck. A third deck would only be required in case of a truely giant airplane, and I'm absolutely sure such a plane won't come in the next years.

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19305 times:

Blended wing was what I had in mind. Building higher requires progressively larger wings to support the load. Good Lord, the A380's are about as large as you can support with current materials.

Having a wide and flat fuselage could at least contribute by adding a little lift, without much additional drag.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 19220 times:

Quoting A350 (Reply 4):
It's not about vertical or not. We know, one good shape is the round fuse cross section. However, if you increase diameter, you also get a higher fuse and more and more unusable room below the cargo deck and over the main deck. A wider fuse than that of the 747 just doesn't make sense on a single decker.

That's not necessarily true. If one just wants passenger seating, then a circular cross section much larger than the JumboJet probably doesn't make a lot of sense, however, if sleeping bunks are desired, then the space can be used effeciently. There are also ways of making effecient use of more space in the cargo hold. Ceiling height can be increased from the standard 66 inches needed for LD3s to 84 or 96 inches to accommodate a wider variety of pallets. A wider cargo bay can be configured to hold two laterally oriented 125 inch pallets side-by-side or three LD3s abreast.


User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 18904 times:

And to get practical for just a moment, Boeing is having a heck of a time trying to get the old model sold as minimally stretched version. I think there is a greater likelihood of Airbus adding a third level to their bird than Boeing doing it. And that isn't too likely, considering the rate at which the airlines are plucking up the current 380. My 2 cents


"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2410 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 18874 times:

I don't think the demand for such a big plane is big enough.. and if it is, I dont think it is enough to cover the costs of a brand new airframe. Maybe a stretched A380 would be able to be profitable.

User currently offlineODwyerPW From Mexico, joined Dec 2004, 856 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 18660 times:

Aircraft aren't like disposal razors. Where you introduce the Shick Quattro just because your competitior has 3 blades a lube strip.

There isn't a single full fuselage length double decker in revenue service yet and the arm chair aeronautical engineers are already proposing triples. Good Grief! I'm reaching for my blankee.



Quiero una vida simple en Mexico. Nada mas.
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 18587 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
I'm wondering, how do you like the idea of a tripledeck 747 successor/A380 competitor if the 747 Advanced fails. The aircraft would have two full decks and one partial deck, and would be made largely of composites.

This will happen as soon as the world reaches 12 bilion population and all airports are out of room to expand.  Yeah sure



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 18435 times:

The only way to proceed after the A389 would be for radical new designs or revisiting the blended wing. There's only so much you can do with existing structures and formats before major problems will start cropping up.

A theatre body blended wing aircraft could easily accomodate over a thousand passengers, but that does not yet look like it will happen. Maybe when more innovative propulsion starts happening the concept can be revisited.


User currently offlineJumpseatflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 18342 times:

take an A380 and fill it with bunkbeds the size of the ones here in my dormroom, and you're PAX capacity will be through the roof  boxedin .

User currently offlineBushpilot From South Africa, joined Jul 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 18294 times:

I am of the school of that that the current jumbos the 747 and A380 are the last of thier types. If you look back to 50-60 years ago when the jet age was really begining you had the likes of the Constellation, DC-7 etc where the thought was build a bigger more effiecient prop engine plane. For the record I think the A380 will make money, as for the gleaming success the 747 has been, not sure if it will live up to it. But I think before you see a triple decker or something even bigger than an A389 you will see a dramatic development in engines or other manufacturing materials to make several smaller (737-A320 type) aircraft more efficient and economical that the jumbo. I dont know what the future holds, but I doubt it is more obese multidecked aircraft. PS....I like the blended wing idea as well.

User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 18129 times:

Quoting A350 (Reply 4):
It's not about vertical or not. We know, one good shape is the round fuse cross section.

Round is good for structural weight and complexity reasons when working with aluminum. There is no reason for it to remain that way once fuselage design goes to all composites however. The cross-sections posted here have shown that Boeing already recognizes this. They are acomplishing their extra head-level space on the 787 by using an inverted ovoid (egg) shape, not a circle or double-bubble. There's no reason future large wide-body designs can't be optimized in the same fashion to keep them at one or two decks with more passenger floor space than the 747.



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 18117 times:

The WhaleJet already has extreme proportions. For its fuselage height (331 inches), it is quite short and the fuselage is narrow (281 inches). If one scales that up to three decks using the same proportions, then seating on the middle deck would be 3-5-5-3 (unless four aisles were used) and 3-4-4-3 on the lower deck. Overall length would be well over 100 meters and total seating in a 3-class cabin would be over 2000.

In the unlikely event that an airliner larger than an A380-900 were ever needed, it would make far more sense to go with a circular fuselage of about 320 inches in diameter. That would probably be a spacious 2-4-4-2 on the main deck or 3-4-4-3 in a charter type seating with 3-3-3 or 3-4-3 on the upper deck.


User currently offlineZAVRC From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 8 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 17468 times:

We seem to be forgetting two things.

One, evacuating in the event of an emergency, a blended wing gives a very wide and flat passenger cabin. The result is that a large portion of passengers are a long way away from an emergency exit.

Two, Joe Passenger, the guy that drives the airline industry by paying airfares, wants to sit next to a window. Wide and flat doesn't give him that


User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 17301 times:

Quoting ZAVRC (Reply 16):
Two, Joe Passenger, the guy that drives the airline industry by paying airfares, wants to sit next to a window. Wide and flat doesn't give him that

I think that on average more Joe Passengers want to sit on an aisle seat then
a windowseat!


User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 17166 times:

Don't want to hijack this thread but there was a thread about a Times newspaper blended wing article:

article:http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2417182


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 17155 times:

I would like a triple-deck amphibian plane, Spruce goose size....

User currently offlineMD80fanatic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 17013 times:

With a blended wing though....there is a passenger escape advantage if you think about it. The central core of pax will be far from the emergency window exits, but why not also have exits on the ceiling so they can climb out on the top of the fuselage? It would be quite easy to implement a rope ladder that drops from the ceiling.

If the emergency-stricken plane were to land wheels-down the central pax could slide down specially made "permanent" escape chutes built into the cargo hold....emerging under the plane's belly.


User currently offlineJet-lagged From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 872 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 16570 times:

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 20):
It would be quite easy to implement a rope ladder that drops from the ceiling.

Or just a rope. Then they can double as the in-flight exercise gym.


User currently offlineGlacote From France, joined Jun 2005, 409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 15868 times:

Whenever dimensions get doubled, mass and efforts grow 8 times and section (hence material resistance) only 4 times.

Hence you will never see giant ants. Nor triple deckers.


User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2444 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 15627 times:

Boeing 828-900ER. Delta will be the launch customer once they emerge from ch-11.




Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineElGreco From France, joined Nov 2005, 164 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 15472 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
Overall length would be well over 100 meters and total seating in a 3-class cabin would be over 2000.

Maximum dimensions are 80m by 80m for airports.

The 380-900 will be close to 900 passagers with 30" seat pitch, may be it's possible to add some passagers in the cargo area with beds as it is made for crew, but without windows (only for frequent flyers or with some drinks).



When you are right alone, you are wrong
25 Zvezda : In theory, that's the current limit, however, few if any airports can handle an 80x80 airliner today. My point was that a triple-decker is not going
26 A342 : Now that looks ugly! Did they use the 747SP as the base? More like 1000 seats. If you scale up the A388´s 555 3-class layout to its maximum 853 seat
27 Post contains images Iwok : How about "break away" wings? In the event of a crash, explosive bolts could be activated to detach and push the fuel containing sections of the BWB
28 Soups : that pic look absolutely VILE
29 Byrdluvs747 : Can someone post those pics of the blended wing concept aircraft on a taxiway?
30 Post contains images MD80fanatic : I think we already have break-away wings....as the Ethiopian 767 crash demonstrated to us. Of course there have been a few 767s in history with much
31 Post contains images OURBOEING : Now this is a cool flying cruise ship
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