FCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2347 posts, RR: 4 Posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1890 times:
The 5 first A330-223s (PW engines) C/Ns have been confirmed as follow.
305 Ex D-AXEL (Blue Wings)
308 Ex D-ARND (Blue Wings)
312 Ex D-ARNO (Blue Wings)
322 EX D-AIMD (Lufthansa)
324 Ex D-AIME (Lufthansa)
The 3 first have been delivered new to Swissair.
the last two machines are in fact ex Sabena.
All of them have been in the Lufthansa fleet in the meantime.
All 5 will be delivered at the beginning of next year.
We are very closed at the A310 end at TAP !!!!!!
WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 70 Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1854 times:
Quoting FCKC (Thread starter): The 5 first A330-223s (PW engines) C/Ns have been confirmed as follow.
305 Ex D-AXEL (Blue Wings)
308 Ex D-ARND (Blue Wings)
312 Ex D-ARNO (Blue Wings)
322 EX D-AIMD (Lufthansa)
324 Ex D-AIME (Lufthansa)
The 3 first have been delivered new to Swissair.
the last two machines are in fact ex Sabena.
All of them have been in the Lufthansa fleet in the meantime.
All 5 will be delivered at the beginning of next year.
We are very closed at the A310 end at TAP !!!!!!
Even though this had been expected for a while, do you have any further information or a link?
Brasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 12 Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1843 times:
Thanks for the info, FCKC.
Yesterday, I watched an interview with TAP chairman in Brazil, who stated that they are currently analysing two or three new destinations in Brazil for the next year.
Thus, I suppose these aircraft are in the short-term joining TAP fleet for increasing capacity, not necessarily an A310 is going to leave upon each A330 arrival. And, at least, I hope so.
TAP is doing very well in Brazil, with high loads and fares. BTW, more than half of their pax are neither Portuguese or Brazilians.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1831 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting Brasuca (Reply 2): Thus, I suppose these aircraft are in the short-term joining TAP fleet for increasing capacity, not necessarily an A310 is going to leave upon each A330 arrival. And, at least, I hope so.
This is right. Probably TAP will keep some of their A310 for routes like NAT and even new destinations. SSA will be probably the first one to be upgraded to A330. I expect to see TAP flying very soon to MCZ (2 or 3 times per week) and BSB (daily), also NAT could become daily.
A second flight to Rio/São Paulo is also expected (and it could replace RG flight GIG/GRU-LIS.
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
BoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1588 posts, RR: 18 Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1809 times:
and... what about the fleet renewal??? no press release for the A350? are they waiting for the dubai show?
Candid76 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 710 posts, RR: 5 Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1759 times:
I read a report that a new start up cargo airline planning to operate between Europe and the Middle East/Africa is discussing a deal to acquire 5 passenger configured A310s from a European company for freighter conversion. Could TAP be the source for these aircraft?
Brasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 12 Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1745 times:
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 3): This is right. Probably TAP will keep some of their A310 for routes like NAT and even new destinations. SSA will be probably the first one to be upgraded to A330. I expect to see TAP flying very soon to MCZ (2 or 3 times per week) and BSB (daily), also NAT could become daily.
A second flight to Rio/São Paulo is also expected (and it could replace RG flight GIG/GRU-LIS.
Interesting!
NAT, in one year, went from 3 to 4 and now 5 weekly. They mentioned to go daily to NAT.
Also, TAP was interested to fly to MCZ after the airport would be greatly improved, and the improvement was completed two months ago. That could be operated initially as a second leg from REC or NAT.
If TAP flies to BSB, I hope RG resume flights to some nearby cities, like Palmas (PMW), Cuiabá (CGB) and Campo Grande (CGR), these three cities alone would gather a population of 2 million to the GYN-BSB pool (3.2 million) for TAP (= +5.2 mi).
Brasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 12 Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1727 times:
Quoting Candid76 (Reply 6): Could TAP be the source for these aircraft?
It could well be TAP, but their short-term expansion plans let them no solution besides remaining with some A310 as some A330 arrive.
In addition, TAP has got one of the highest aircraft utilisation ratio in the world. None of them sit around at their destinations - they perform quick stops only.
What other European airlines have the A310? Air Madrid...?
WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 70 Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1694 times:
It has come to my attention that many member on this forum only see Brazil as the major growth potential for Tap. Even though I don't deny that the South America market is of great interest for Tap, we have to remember that Tap has a bright future in relation to its operations in Africa.
Ever since Angola and Mozambique declared peace Tap has a great potential in these two very important market. It would be in the best of interest if Tap managed to get more right to weekly flight to these two countries. Besides these Tap has great growth potential with Cabo Verde, Sao Tome, Guinea Bissau, and even South Africa. The African markets can easily handel some growth in the immediate future.
Brasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 12 Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1673 times:
Quoting WINGS (Reply 9): It has come to my attention that many member on this forum only see Brazil as the major growth potential for Tap. Even though I don't deny that the South America market is of great interest for Tap, we have to remember that Tap has a bright future in relation to its operations in Africa.
Ever since Angola and Mozambique declared peace Tap has a great potential in these two very important market. It would be in the best of interest if Tap managed to get more right to weekly flight to these two countries. Besides these Tap has great growth potential with Cabo Verde, Sao Tome, Guinea Bissau, and even South Africa. The African markets can easily handel some growth in the immediate future.
You are right that Africa has potential growth, nobody here ever denied this.
But is quite understandable that Brazilian members know more about Brazilian-related plans of TAP, rather than what TAP aims at Africa.
Most of our analyses are based on TAP's official announcements (like the 2 or 3 new destinations in Brazil).
Since you are from Portugal, tell us more about your country's flag carrier expansion plans in Africa. We'll be pleased to know more about them. This will only confirm that TAP won't soon get rid of their A310. They're still going to stay with TAP for a good period on.
Brasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 12 Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1643 times:
WINGS,
BTW, we'll see soon TAP code-sharing with SAA between LIS and JNB. This can lead into increase of frequency to JNB.
On the other hand, TAP could drop MPM (Maputo - Mozambique) in favour of daily code-share with SAA via JNB - This would optimise TAP aircraft utilization and alliance's partnership.
TAP can easily handle 5 to 6 weekly LIS-JNB - from the current A343 2 wkly -, IF they axe MPM - currently 3w- and code-share with SA at JNB-MPM, instead. Yet even daily LIS-JNB if they initially downgrade from A343 to A332.
As for LAD, Angolan government has a strict bilateral, with 3 flights for each country, meanwhile. Is there room for increase of flighta? just curious..
Anyway... These are just some thoughts from a Brazilian member, far off from Africa... nothing really serious
TP777 From Portugal, joined Oct 2005, 59 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1598 times:
Quoting Brasuca (Reply 12): As for LAD, Angolan government has a strict bilateral, with 3 flights for each country, meanwhile. Is there room for increase of flighta? just curious..
As far as I know the LIS - LAD flights are allways full, TP as required daily flights to LAD but the Angolan authority as denied them to protect TAAG.
Some people book flights with more then 6 months in advance to get seats and they pay good money to travel in C.
WINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 70 Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1584 times:
Hi Brasuca,
Its always great to read new development with Tap especially relating to expansion of its network.
Quoting Brasuca (Reply 11):
You are right that Africa has potential growth, nobody here ever denied this.
I never mentioned that the members denied growth in Africa for Tap. I was merely referring to most of us forgetting that Tap also has a bright future in African Market.
Quoting Brasuca (Reply 11): But is quite understandable that Brazilian members know more about Brazilian-related plans of TAP, rather than what TAP aims at Africa.
That's quite true and your posts have proven that you are well aware of Taps growth in Latin America.
BTW, we'll see soon TAP code-sharing with SAA between LIS and JNB. This can lead into increase of frequency to JNB.
That's one possibility although I have not read any article referring to a code-sharing between Tap and SAA.
Quoting Brasuca (Reply 12): TAP can easily handle 5 to 6 weekly LIS-JNB - from the current A343 2 wkly -, IF they axe MPM - currently 3w- and code-share with SA at JNB-MPM, instead. Yet even daily LIS-JNB if they initially downgrade from A343 to A332.
I believe that the A330-200 will not have the range for JNB. Am sure some member here can confirm this.
Quoting Brasuca (Reply 12): As for LAD, Angolan government has a strict bilateral, with 3 flights for each country, meanwhile. Is there room for increase of flights? just curious..
See for a Brazilian you are quite well informed about Tap. Angola is the largest market potential for both Tap and Portugal. Angola is expected to be one of the countries with largest growth in terms of GDP for 2006. As Angola is a former Portuguese colony, we have strong commercial ties with Angola.
As for the 3x weekly flight it would be in the best interest for both Portugal and Angola see this increased. Angola currently uses its B747 to LIS. While Tap uses the A340-300 on this route.
Ill even risk in saying the following. I would not be too surprised if Tap would place an order for the A340-500/600 or eve possibly the B777 in a few years.
With the Portuguese former colonies facing peace time, Tap has an even better chance to return to its glory days.
Brasuca From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 717 posts, RR: 12 Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1574 times:
WINGS,
Thanks for your comments!
With TAP owning a big stake of VARIG, everything is expected like VARIG ordering Airbuses or TAP ordering Boeing.
The range of the A332 is up to 6400nm.
TAM flies their A332 GRU-CDG (5065 nm) and LIS-JNB is about only 4413 nm.
side note: the number of Angolans to Brazil have increased considerably that TAAG increased their frequencies to GIG as well. And it's not only Business traffic only, but now Angolan vacationers - TAAG plays a big role with Cargo as well here. [TACV is expected to increase flights to Brazil as well]
Therefore, I think we may expect more growth among all Portuguese-speaking countries.
Quoting TP777 (Reply 13): As far as I know the LIS - LAD flights are allways full, TP as required daily flights to LAD but the Angolan authority as denied them to protect TAAG.
I mean an 'Increase in flights considering the bilateral Portugal - Angola', as the flights are doing very well. I think this bilateral won't be revised any soon, as neither TAP or TAAG can handle more flights, because of aircraft shortage. Could Air Luxor afford flying to LAD?
BTW, TAAG has placed an order for new B772ERs and now TAP is about to confirm their new order.
FCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2347 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1510 times:
WINGS
No links , since these informations come from the highly reliable "Aviation Letter" , No467.
If you don't know this remarquable monthly publication (in fact a kind of Bible !!!) i recommend you to read one of their issues !!!!!!! Really great !!!!
DETA737 From Portugal, joined Oct 2000, 596 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1537 times:
I know TAP wants to increase flight to LAD interestingly enough TAP flew 3 daily LIS-LAD flights 31 years ago (2 with 747s) and today they only fly that amount weekly. I think once TAAG gets their 777s that they will want to increase flights to LIS and hence a new bilateral will be arranged between Angola and Portugal. As for MPM I don't see the flight being ended as Mozambique is recovering economically and Portuguese investment is increasing, however I could see more frequencies being added and perhaps JNB and MPM flights being replaced with the A330-200.
As for other African destinations, Cape Verde will probably get more flights. Bissau is a mess so probably not much more demand. Perhaps there will be additional demand to São Tomé and Dakar but I can't see much changing in Africa for TAP. They used to fly to FIH and the Congo had many Portuguese people living in it, but since the civil war 10 years ago, that place has been a mess. HRE too was served but again, Zimbabwe is another mess.
As for Brazil I think that eventually GIG and GRU will go up to two daily flights within the next 5 years. Belém is probably the next destination because it's in the Northeast and the demand for this region has grown tremendously as now many Portuguese prefer to go on holiday here since it is cheaper than the Algarve and are even buying second homes in this region. João Pessoa and Manaus are other cities I can see them possibly looking at sometime in the future. In the past TAP looked at Belo Horizonte, Curitiba, Florianópolis and Pôrto Alegre, but I think these cities will all just be codeshared with RG.
I would like to see São Luís become a major tourist destination because it's a beautiful city and the area has a lot of potential, but apparently the Maranhão state government is quite corrupt and inept. Hopefully this will change and if it does I can see it becoming a TAP destination.
In the rest of South America I can't see much expansion either. They serve CCS but that is mainly for the large Portuguese community in Venezuela most of which is from the island of Madeira. If Venezuela could get its act together this destination could have more potential though. TAP served EZE until 1975 and there was a substantial Portuguese community there but most arrived pre-1960s so the links are few and this city can be served by a RG codeshare.
As for the rest of the intercontinental network, I don't see TAP expanding in North America. A return to YYZ is a possibility but this low-yield market appears to be well-served by SATA, Air Transat and SkyService. Same goes for BOS, PVD, OAK and YUL which have large Portuguese communities.
LipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11201 posts, RR: 61 Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1470 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting Brasuca (Reply 15): I mean an 'Increase in flights considering the bilateral Portugal - Angola', as the flights are doing very well. I think this bilateral won't be revised any soon, as neither TAP or TAAG can handle more flights, because of aircraft shortage. Could Air Luxor afford flying to LAD?
BTW, TAAG has placed an order for new B772ERs and now TAP is about to confirm their new order.
LAD market is absolutely amazing. Angola is nowadays a very strong destination, the oil money is helping the country to develop itself faster and also, there's a lot of people buying US$ millions houses. I believe LIS-LAD will be upgraded soon as well as flights from LAD to other countries as Brazil.
Quoting DETA737 (Reply 17): João Pessoa and Manaus are other cities I can see them possibly looking at sometime in the future. In the past TAP looked at Belo Horizonte, Curitiba, Florianópolis and Pôrto Alegre, but I think these cities will all just be codeshared with RG.
I see only Manaus with possible TP service. João Pessoa is very close to NAT (less than 60 miles), and i doubt they receive international service (the airport remains domestic). In the south i agree, its easy to see TP growing on Rio and São Paulo than any other city.
Quoting WINGS (Reply 14): With the Portuguese former colonies facing peace time, Tap has an even better chance to return to its glory days.
I wish to see it too. TP is a strong player in the development of Brazilian Northeast. They open an entire market and allow a lot of life quality improvements in a generally poor area. TP is one of the responsible for the
diversification of int'l flights nowadays take place in Brazil. Thanks very much to TP !
Wings, a question: How many portuguese nowadays in Macau ?
Regards,
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
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