Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Will Air India Ever Buy New B747/A380  
User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2046 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6497 times:

I know if it is too early to ask, but one wonders if AI will ever buy "new" B747 or A380? The point is that AI will need aircraft of that size and they cannot go forever with their old B744 or keep leasing those dumped by others.
Does AI have any "strategic" plans or just wants to take a breath and be happy with B773?
thanks
VT-ASJ


ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineThunderbird1 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6488 times:

It needs to buy the 747 Advanced.

User currently offlineCrazyHorse From Austria, joined Nov 2005, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6459 times:

India is a future market and their will be a growing demand for flights to many destination. So it is quite possible, that AI is buying A380 or B747A in the near future, when the company and the politician will see, that AI need´s bigger aircrafts on different routes.

User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6419 times:

Read somewhere some weeks ago , India will need 20 A380 size aircraft.
So probably AI will buy some in the future (near or far future ?).


User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3766 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6419 times:

I think AI is one of those airlines that could need a mixture of both the A380 and the 747-ADV/773ER!

I think some routes are capable of handling the A380, whereas some routes simply just need a 747-ADV/773ER!

I hope AI go for a mix of 747-ADV's and A380's!

Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6386 times:

They're in the process of acquiring 15 777-300ERs, 10 777LRs, and 28 787s.

It appears that AI are subscribing to Boeing's vision of the future which entails point to point traffic between both hubs AND secondary cities.

If so, the 773s with 350 pax will do the job quite well on trunk routes out of BOM and DEL, with the 772s and 787s doing nonstops from both Bom and Del as well as AI's secondary points within India like BLR, MAA, HYD etc.

It would be a pity to see the 747 leave the AI fleet, especially since its been the distinctive flagship of the fleet for close to 35 years now, but you can't stem the tide of progress and shifting market demands.


User currently offlineN60659 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 654 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6372 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 5):
and 28 787s

Very slight correction - it is 27 787s.  Wink

-N60659



Nec Dextrorsum Nec Sinistrorsum
User currently offlineGlacote From France, joined Jun 2005, 409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6194 times:

AI might buy some recent A388 from EK when they buy A389 instead...

User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6194 times:

I agree with Jaysit, the trend indicates major equipment upgrades. Ther's no way AI will sit and watch Jet, Kingfisher and PIA ramp up on the new stuff and not do anything about it. I believe when the 747ADV goes... AI will jump in line as well.


BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineMandargb From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6096 times:

AI does buy new aircraft from time to time historically. (Although they havent "bought" big birds from boeing of late.)
If you watch them and their buying decisions, the decisions are typically highly influnced by not just the item they are buying but also the other stuff they are going to get in bargain.
Like if the they go A: then do they get more access to CDG or some European hub.
Or if they go B: then do they get some more access to defence technology / F16/18s from US or even more access to US destinations etc.

So I think their buying decision also depends on all the other factors, since the aircraft and route mixing / scheduling can be done in a proper way to operate with A or B machines.

Another factor that now will come into picture is, will they make some more money domestically in MRO jobs, by utilizing their say B machine expertise with some local carrier. Sure Jet is going to need some MRO jobs on their Airbuses and so would Kingfisher in near future.

However they are "planning" to buy B's machine looks like from current trends.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6051 times:

Not sure about the A380.But def the B747Advance will be taken to with Interest.
Where as for the Interim period there Will be the B773ERs.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2966 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6006 times:

I know for a fact from meeting with AI that the A380 is not on the horizon anytime yet. However, with AI and Airbus burying the hachet (Caused when Nigel Harwood lost it) and AI being the world's largest (correct me if I'm wrong) operators of the 'Tubby' (A313's) a future order for A380's can't be ruled out. But because they plan to keep the current fleet of 744's till 2010-2012, the order is going to be long way off.
Let them get the 777's and 787's first na!



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10638 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5971 times:

AI will certainly need something bigger than 773ER. Their 744s are still young enough not to haste a decision for the top end of the fleet. A decision for the 747 Adv. though has the positive sideeffect they could just convert orders and/or upgrade from 773ER to 747 Advanced if future demand justifies it.

User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2966 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5914 times:

Much of AI's future strategy will involve point-to-point services instead of "everything-from-Bombay" (save two 777's based in DEL) thing it has going now. DEL will become a full-fledged maint and engineering base for the 777 and 787. Plus there will be more services from HYD, BLR, MAA and CAL direct. AI is a total believer in Boeing's point-to-point philosophy (thats why the 787).


A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10638 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5884 times:

Point-to-point or not, some routes will require bigger things than monster-twins...

User currently offlineAnandt From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5873 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 13):
AI is a total believer in Boeing's point-to-point philosophy (thats why the 787).

With the dumps that masquerade as airports in India, a hub strategy isnt going to work really. Plus point-to-point provides the best chance to wean away passengers from hub based carriers like EK and Qatar.

Although I think Mumbai T2 (gate area) has improved drastically after the renovations.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5811 times:

Quoting NA (Reply 12):
AI will certainly need something bigger than 773ER.

I don't think so.
I'm sure they will configure the 773s them with large Y class cabins with a total capacity of about 350 pax, only about 50 short of their 744s.

Also, once point to point flights from destinations like Bangalore, Madras, Calcutta, Ahmedabad, etc are developed, you may not need anything larger than a 773 from Bom or Del. And with the US being the primary market for expansion, its much easier to do this with nonstop flights.

Also, don't forget that AI is not the only domestic Indian player on the market. Jet is expanding internationally too. Were Jet not around, AI may have needed a 747ADV or A380 sized AC.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31667 posts, RR: 56
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5762 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 13):
DEL will become a full-fledged maint and engineering base for the 777 and 787

Are you saying no Major Mx on the B777s & B787s at BOM.Can you confirm.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 5740 times:

An acquaintance of mine, who recently took the LAX-SIN non-stop enroute to MAA in Economy Plus, was less than thrilled about the trip. He indicated once was enough and he was going to switch back to one stop connection through FRA on LH.
However, a non-stop to India from USA should trump one-stop flight for most people if the premium for non-stop is no more than $200 for economy class. We will soon know if CO non-stop to DEL can sustain a high load factor while charging a premium. Does anyone know what their fares are relative to one stop connection to NY for economy class?

It is difficult for AI to fill up seats in off season for USA market. They are better off using 777s, and they should increase the frequency during peak season-especially around December-January. AI loads are quiet low from USA in off peak season. Why doesn't AI experiment with reducing frequency to BOM from EWR/JFK(say 5 times a week) and redeploy these aircrafts to other sectors where the demand may be higher. I am thinking of how some carriers reduce their frequency to Europe from USA during winter months or deploy a smaller capacity aircraft.

[Edited 2005-11-11 18:29:32]

[Edited 2005-11-11 18:30:20]

User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5689 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 18):
It is difficult for AI to fill up seats in off season for USA market. They are better off using 777s, and they should increase the frequency during peak season-especially around December-January. AI loads are quiet low from USA in off peak season. Why doesn't AI experiment with reducing frequency to BOM from EWR/JFK(say 5 times a week) and redeploy these aircrafts to other sectors where the demand may be higher. I am thinking of how some carriers reduce their frequency to Europe from USA during winter months or deploy a smaller capacity aircraft.

The US-India sector on AI has an average load factor of 85% year round. The EWR-BOM flights have the highest load factor of over 90%. Why on earth would they want to reduce frequency?


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5578 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 19):
The US-India sector on AI has an average load factor of 85% year round. The EWR-BOM flights have the highest load factor of over 90%. Why on earth would they want to reduce frequency?

I didn't think they had such a high load factor. Why are they discounting their tickets so much in off season?


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21472 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5571 times:

If EK becomes a leasing company for some of their A380s (converting options), maybe you see AI leasing some in exchange for more routes for EK themselves in India? (down the road)


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5489 times:

I suppose they will go for the B 747 Advanced. Not sure about the A 380 and the B 777-300ER.

User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5293 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5473 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 22):
I suppose they will go for the B 747 Advanced. Not sure about the A 380 and the B 777-300ER.

Well they have 15 773ER's on order. The AI 747-437's were only delivered from 1993-96 so they are very young aircraft, The ex SQ and KE birds are mainly on 3-5 year leases aren't they!? I think they will need something bigger than the 773ER though in the long term future.


User currently offlineHimmat01 From India, joined Dec 2004, 1047 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5461 times:

I guess AI will go for the A380s when SQ starts dumping them after 8-10 years. Big grin


An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
25 Nimish : ROFL!! I'm waiting for the ex-SQ 777s to come in first. AI already have a bunch of ex-SQ 310 and 747 if I remember correctly.
26 Karan69 : Jaysit, i think they will mostly be more than 350, given carriers like EK and AF have configurations in excess of 400 in a three class layout. EK 427
27 Jaysit : I'm just citing the various news reports. All airlines discount their tickets heavily in the off season, irrespective of the routes they fly. That's
28 ZK-NBT : No they don't. EK seat 364 in a 3 class layout and thats with 10 abreat in Y. They seat 427 is their 2 class 77W's. AF have nowhere near that, more l
29 Karan69 : thanks for the correction mate
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Boeing Wants To Buy Old Air India Planes For New posted Wed Aug 27 2003 00:03:37 by Singapore_Air
Will Air Mauritius Ever Fly To The USA? posted Sun Aug 21 2005 04:11:31 by Juventus
Air India Looking For New Toilet Paper Supplier posted Wed Jul 6 2005 10:49:16 by Mrniji
Will Air Traffic Ever Stop Growing? posted Mon Jun 20 2005 19:59:20 by Phxplanes
Will Air Berlin Ever Do Long-haul? posted Sun Apr 17 2005 10:52:44 by Beaucaire
Will Air India Reconsider The A340 Order? posted Mon Feb 9 2004 11:37:54 by Sm777
Will Air India Fly To Manchester posted Sat Apr 26 2003 08:04:29 by United777
Air India Crews In New York posted Sat Jan 11 2003 04:51:27 by PROSA
Air India's 7th 747 New Name posted Tue Dec 17 2002 02:15:19 by Lfutia
Will Air Canada Ever Have PTV's In Economy? posted Thu Jun 28 2001 16:05:34 by SafeFlyer