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Will Air India Ever Buy New B747/A380  
User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2045 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6290 times:

I know if it is too early to ask, but one wonders if AI will ever buy "new" B747 or A380? The point is that AI will need aircraft of that size and they cannot go forever with their old B744 or keep leasing those dumped by others.
Does AI have any "strategic" plans or just wants to take a breath and be happy with B773?
thanks
VT-ASJ


ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineThunderbird1 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6281 times:

It needs to buy the 747 Advanced.

User currently offlineCrazyHorse From Austria, joined Nov 2005, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6252 times:

India is a future market and their will be a growing demand for flights to many destination. So it is quite possible, that AI is buying A380 or B747A in the near future, when the company and the politician will see, that AI need´s bigger aircrafts on different routes.

User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6212 times:

Read somewhere some weeks ago , India will need 20 A380 size aircraft.
So probably AI will buy some in the future (near or far future ?).


User currently onlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3762 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6212 times:

I think AI is one of those airlines that could need a mixture of both the A380 and the 747-ADV/773ER!

I think some routes are capable of handling the A380, whereas some routes simply just need a 747-ADV/773ER!

I hope AI go for a mix of 747-ADV's and A380's!

Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6179 times:

They're in the process of acquiring 15 777-300ERs, 10 777LRs, and 28 787s.

It appears that AI are subscribing to Boeing's vision of the future which entails point to point traffic between both hubs AND secondary cities.

If so, the 773s with 350 pax will do the job quite well on trunk routes out of BOM and DEL, with the 772s and 787s doing nonstops from both Bom and Del as well as AI's secondary points within India like BLR, MAA, HYD etc.

It would be a pity to see the 747 leave the AI fleet, especially since its been the distinctive flagship of the fleet for close to 35 years now, but you can't stem the tide of progress and shifting market demands.


User currently offlineN60659 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 654 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6165 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 5):
and 28 787s

Very slight correction - it is 27 787s.  Wink

-N60659



Nec Dextrorsum Nec Sinistrorsum
User currently offlineGlacote From France, joined Jun 2005, 409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5987 times:

AI might buy some recent A388 from EK when they buy A389 instead...

User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5477 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5987 times:

I agree with Jaysit, the trend indicates major equipment upgrades. Ther's no way AI will sit and watch Jet, Kingfisher and PIA ramp up on the new stuff and not do anything about it. I believe when the 747ADV goes... AI will jump in line as well.


BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineMandargb From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5889 times:

AI does buy new aircraft from time to time historically. (Although they havent "bought" big birds from boeing of late.)
If you watch them and their buying decisions, the decisions are typically highly influnced by not just the item they are buying but also the other stuff they are going to get in bargain.
Like if the they go A: then do they get more access to CDG or some European hub.
Or if they go B: then do they get some more access to defence technology / F16/18s from US or even more access to US destinations etc.

So I think their buying decision also depends on all the other factors, since the aircraft and route mixing / scheduling can be done in a proper way to operate with A or B machines.

Another factor that now will come into picture is, will they make some more money domestically in MRO jobs, by utilizing their say B machine expertise with some local carrier. Sure Jet is going to need some MRO jobs on their Airbuses and so would Kingfisher in near future.

However they are "planning" to buy B's machine looks like from current trends.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5844 times:

Not sure about the A380.But def the B747Advance will be taken to with Interest.
Where as for the Interim period there Will be the B773ERs.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2964 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5799 times:

I know for a fact from meeting with AI that the A380 is not on the horizon anytime yet. However, with AI and Airbus burying the hachet (Caused when Nigel Harwood lost it) and AI being the world's largest (correct me if I'm wrong) operators of the 'Tubby' (A313's) a future order for A380's can't be ruled out. But because they plan to keep the current fleet of 744's till 2010-2012, the order is going to be long way off.
Let them get the 777's and 787's first na!



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10365 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5764 times:

AI will certainly need something bigger than 773ER. Their 744s are still young enough not to haste a decision for the top end of the fleet. A decision for the 747 Adv. though has the positive sideeffect they could just convert orders and/or upgrade from 773ER to 747 Advanced if future demand justifies it.

User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2964 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5707 times:

Much of AI's future strategy will involve point-to-point services instead of "everything-from-Bombay" (save two 777's based in DEL) thing it has going now. DEL will become a full-fledged maint and engineering base for the 777 and 787. Plus there will be more services from HYD, BLR, MAA and CAL direct. AI is a total believer in Boeing's point-to-point philosophy (thats why the 787).


A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10365 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5677 times:

Point-to-point or not, some routes will require bigger things than monster-twins...

User currently offlineAnandt From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5666 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 13):
AI is a total believer in Boeing's point-to-point philosophy (thats why the 787).

With the dumps that masquerade as airports in India, a hub strategy isnt going to work really. Plus point-to-point provides the best chance to wean away passengers from hub based carriers like EK and Qatar.

Although I think Mumbai T2 (gate area) has improved drastically after the renovations.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5604 times:

Quoting NA (Reply 12):
AI will certainly need something bigger than 773ER.

I don't think so.
I'm sure they will configure the 773s them with large Y class cabins with a total capacity of about 350 pax, only about 50 short of their 744s.

Also, once point to point flights from destinations like Bangalore, Madras, Calcutta, Ahmedabad, etc are developed, you may not need anything larger than a 773 from Bom or Del. And with the US being the primary market for expansion, its much easier to do this with nonstop flights.

Also, don't forget that AI is not the only domestic Indian player on the market. Jet is expanding internationally too. Were Jet not around, AI may have needed a 747ADV or A380 sized AC.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31573 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5555 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 13):
DEL will become a full-fledged maint and engineering base for the 777 and 787

Are you saying no Major Mx on the B777s & B787s at BOM.Can you confirm.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5533 times:

An acquaintance of mine, who recently took the LAX-SIN non-stop enroute to MAA in Economy Plus, was less than thrilled about the trip. He indicated once was enough and he was going to switch back to one stop connection through FRA on LH.
However, a non-stop to India from USA should trump one-stop flight for most people if the premium for non-stop is no more than $200 for economy class. We will soon know if CO non-stop to DEL can sustain a high load factor while charging a premium. Does anyone know what their fares are relative to one stop connection to NY for economy class?

It is difficult for AI to fill up seats in off season for USA market. They are better off using 777s, and they should increase the frequency during peak season-especially around December-January. AI loads are quiet low from USA in off peak season. Why doesn't AI experiment with reducing frequency to BOM from EWR/JFK(say 5 times a week) and redeploy these aircrafts to other sectors where the demand may be higher. I am thinking of how some carriers reduce their frequency to Europe from USA during winter months or deploy a smaller capacity aircraft.

[Edited 2005-11-11 18:29:32]

[Edited 2005-11-11 18:30:20]

User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5482 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 18):
It is difficult for AI to fill up seats in off season for USA market. They are better off using 777s, and they should increase the frequency during peak season-especially around December-January. AI loads are quiet low from USA in off peak season. Why doesn't AI experiment with reducing frequency to BOM from EWR/JFK(say 5 times a week) and redeploy these aircrafts to other sectors where the demand may be higher. I am thinking of how some carriers reduce their frequency to Europe from USA during winter months or deploy a smaller capacity aircraft.

The US-India sector on AI has an average load factor of 85% year round. The EWR-BOM flights have the highest load factor of over 90%. Why on earth would they want to reduce frequency?


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5371 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 19):
The US-India sector on AI has an average load factor of 85% year round. The EWR-BOM flights have the highest load factor of over 90%. Why on earth would they want to reduce frequency?

I didn't think they had such a high load factor. Why are they discounting their tickets so much in off season?


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21416 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5364 times:

If EK becomes a leasing company for some of their A380s (converting options), maybe you see AI leasing some in exchange for more routes for EK themselves in India? (down the road)


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9107 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5282 times:

I suppose they will go for the B 747 Advanced. Not sure about the A 380 and the B 777-300ER.

User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5266 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 22):
I suppose they will go for the B 747 Advanced. Not sure about the A 380 and the B 777-300ER.

Well they have 15 773ER's on order. The AI 747-437's were only delivered from 1993-96 so they are very young aircraft, The ex SQ and KE birds are mainly on 3-5 year leases aren't they!? I think they will need something bigger than the 773ER though in the long term future.


User currently offlineHimmat01 From India, joined Dec 2004, 1045 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5254 times:

I guess AI will go for the A380s when SQ starts dumping them after 8-10 years. Big grin


An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
25 Nimish : ROFL!! I'm waiting for the ex-SQ 777s to come in first. AI already have a bunch of ex-SQ 310 and 747 if I remember correctly.
26 Karan69 : Jaysit, i think they will mostly be more than 350, given carriers like EK and AF have configurations in excess of 400 in a three class layout. EK 427
27 Jaysit : I'm just citing the various news reports. All airlines discount their tickets heavily in the off season, irrespective of the routes they fly. That's
28 ZK-NBT : No they don't. EK seat 364 in a 3 class layout and thats with 10 abreat in Y. They seat 427 is their 2 class 77W's. AF have nowhere near that, more l
29 Karan69 : thanks for the correction mate
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