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DFW Ends Out Of PIT On US In Jan.  
User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4742 times:

Looks there will not be any more DFW flights from PIT to DFW for US come the Jan. schd. change. Hopefully they just haven't decided if it will be a MidAtaltic or Republic route.

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1605 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4597 times:

Looks like you're right -- I don't see it anywhere. Interesting, as AA just went all-Eagle on that route as well.



N670UW


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4574 times:

I'm a bit surprised by this, not really because of PIT, but because of DFW. US/HP has specifically named DFW as one of the markets they'd like to maintain a good presence in.

And, as 670 noted, US now offers by far the superior product on this route, though AA offers more frequency.

It probably is an aircraft utilization issue--but dropping a route and then adding it back a few months later is a real good way to lose customers.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

With the relatively high O&D on that route, and AA already dropping it to Eagle, it seems as if there will be a pretty big void of seats for that route. Can FL's 717's make it that far since they have the minor buildup there already?

Leave it to US to drop a route just when they could have made major headway thanks to AA's reduction.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineBonanzaAir From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 80 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4483 times:

The FL 717 can do BWI to DFW...PIT wouldn't be a problem.


Bonanza


User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4480 times:

"Can FL's 717's make it that far since they have the minor buildup there already?"

FL flys a 717 to BWI everyday from DFW, so I would say yes they could, but no they probably won't. DFW seems to be somewhat on the back burner lately. FL is dropping DFW-LAX.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4431 times:

http://www.faremeasure.com/flights/F...rgh_Pennsylvania-Dallas_Texas.html
445 pax per day.

Currently (today):
3x Super 80 130 x 3 = 390
1x CRJ-700 70
460

Take away those Super 80's to make them CRJ's, even upgrading it to 5x daily, in addition to the 1 currently, and you'd get 6x CRJ-700. For a total of 420 seats. Also don't forget there is heavy connection traffic in DFW for AA. It's not like AA can run much traffic PIT-ORD-DFW, considering that's only ERJ's to ORD. And I doubt any sane person will fly PIT-PHL-DFW to stay with US, which leaves CLT as a semi-viable alternative. The point is, there will be less seats on the route than available O&D pax in a day, not even including the connections at DFW on AA. A huge opportunity for someone.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 6):
there will be less seats on the route than available O&D pax in a day

I don't think so. O&D is about 450 a day in this market or 225 in each direction. You state that the new AA schedule will be 460 seats daily each way. Sounds like enough.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4205 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 7):

I don't think so. O&D is about 450 a day in this market or 225 in each direction. You state that the new AA schedule will be 460 seats daily each way. Sounds like enough.

No... that 450 is the one-way number, as per the link I posted. Also, AA's schedule is CURRENTLY 460 seats a day each way, but more reductions are coming once those final Super80's get moved out of town, to the 420 I listed, which was wrong. A look at AA's schedules for January show 5x CRJ-700. That's 350 seats.


User currently offlineNcflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 486 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4178 times:

isn't that the idea. Suck capacity out of the market so prices go up? It's happening all over the place. It's not about serving everybody, but serving people willing to pay a high enough price. The rest can connect.

User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6764 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4146 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 8):
No... that 450 is the one-way number, as per the link I posted.

No, you are wrong. Faremeasure uses DOT's Consumer Air Fare Report Data, and they are currently using 3rd Quarter 2004 data in their database (which is 2 quarters out-of-date since DOT has the 1Q05 data available). You can see the relevant info from DOT's 3Q04 report for PIT-DFW below:

"Table 6" 200403 "23210" "70470" "Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX" "Pittsburgh, PA" 1068.00 445.10 207.71 "AA" 50.23 221.32 "US" 24.98 180.77

DOT's numbers are market total (i.e. both ways) per day. Faremeasure unfortunately does not clearly state this fact.

In any case, it's clear why US is discontinuing PIT-DFW -- they are only able to capture a quarter of the market, in spite of being 15% below the average fare in the market. Even though their yield is pretty good at 17 cents/mile, they're probably only filling about 25% of the seats on the aircraft with O&D traffic (with 3 70-seaters each way per day meaning 420 seats).


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3732 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 10):
No, you are wrong. Faremeasure uses DOT's Consumer Air Fare Report Data, and they are currently using 3rd Quarter 2004 data in their database (which is 2 quarters out-of-date since DOT has the 1Q05 data available). You can see the relevant info from DOT's 3Q04 report for PIT-DFW below:

"Table 6" 200403 "23210" "70470" "Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX" "Pittsburgh, PA" 1068.00 445.10 207.71 "AA" 50.23 221.32 "US" 24.98 180.77

DOT's numbers are market total (i.e. both ways) per day. Faremeasure unfortunately does not clearly state this fact.

Seems to disagree with this thread: Faremeasure #'s (by Stlgph Nov 14 2005 in Civil Aviation)a


User currently offlineSwmdal From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3575 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 6):
The point is, there will be less seats on the route than available O&D pax in a day, not even including the connections at DFW on AA. A huge opportunity for someone.

Get the Wright Amendment repealed, and new PIT entrant Southwest can run PIT-DAL nonstops, at discount fares too.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3563 times:

Local reports say PIT-DTW service will also be discontinued at the same time as DFW.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3550 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 13):
Local reports say PIT-DTW service will also be discontinued at the same time as DFW.

Yes, I heard that as well. They're still in the schedule, but the January schedule isn't finalized yet. It's certainly not at all surprising.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3517 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 2):
I'm a bit surprised by this, not really because of PIT, but because of DFW. US/HP has specifically named DFW as one of the markets they'd like to maintain a good presence in.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05319/606507.stm


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3506 times:

I believed it, and I saw it in the schedules. Posting a link won't make me any less surprised at it.  Silly


I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3495 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 16):
Posting a link won't make me any less surprised at it.

The link was posted to show that more than PIT-DFW was being cut. Dont be so sensitive.


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3492 times:

Quoting Vega (Reply 17):
Dont be so sensitive.

You're right, I shouldn't have assumed you were talking to me. You only directly quoted me.  Yeah sure



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3454 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 18):
You're right, I shouldn't have assumed you were talking to me. You only directly quoted me.

Haha. You're right on that one. But when you assume you make an  butthead  of U and ME... but this time I wasn't involved, so I can just chuckle.  Wink

As for DTW, I'm surprised it still existed seeing as US seems content on dumping any route it has hub-competition on from others in PIT. CLE awhile ago (though nobody would actually O&D PIT-CLE anyways), MKE, ATL, IAH, now DFW/DTW. For a place like DTW, especially with NW's current situation, I think I would have kept it. Who wants to fly NW junk when you could fly US' ERJ's if you're O&D-ing between the cities... and be on a better airline (wow, US beating someone, shocking! haha)? I know for a fact GM at least still has facilities in the Mon Valley region. Gotta love NW's PIT schedule of 3x DC9-30, 1x CRJ, 1x Avro... ironically that *was* ABE's alotment until 3 months ago.

A330323X: Since US is putting RJ's on every short stub route imaginable now since they've got more RJ's than they know what to do with, any chance of PIT-ABE?? That route actually has decent loads. Hell, I'd rather a DH-8, or even a damn Beech 1900... I just hate those Saabs!


User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3413 posts, RR: 16
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3434 times:

2 quick points:

Faremeasure is MARKET TOTAL not each way...

The January 9th US schedule has been uploaded and finalized.


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