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NW Trims MKE Further  
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2872 posts, RR: 30
Posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5166 times:

Effective January 4th, NW drops:

MKE-LGA
MKE-DCA
MKE-LAS

MKE-LAS returns from 2/16 thru 4/29 as a seasonal red-eye flight kind of like what they fly between Vegas and Grand Rapids, Fargo, Des Moines, etc.

Northwest will be down to 17 flights (all mainline) with the January schedule:

MSP 6
DTW 6
MEM 3
LAX 1
MCO 1

Seventeen flights is about the level of service Northwest had at MKE for years before their 2003 buildup. NW is still in a period of big change and transition, and who knows is anything will return or if anything more will be cut. I'd be surprised if an additional MSP and DTW flight are not added during the peak season in mid 2006. But it looks like NW's point-to-point experiment in Milwaukee is quickly winding down.

So far I don't see any IND point-to-point cuts beyond those already talked about weeks ago like IND-DFW, IND-PHX, IND-AUS, etc. The only other point-to-point flight I see going is LAN-DCA.

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCIDflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2272 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5135 times:

not really too suprising, I had heard that they were having problems in MKE. the LAS flight kind of suprises me, thought that would be more popular.

Quoting Knope2001 (Thread starter):
The only other point-to-point flight I see going is LAN-DCA.

have they dropped DSM-DCA, GRR-DCA, and MSN-DCA as well?


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5099 times:

Myself I would not be surprised to see IND be the next on the chopping block.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5093 times:

Great news for Midwest. Congrats to them for fending off NW, though if an equilibrium can be reached between that two that's good as well.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5044 times:

Well guess whatever NW had in mind with their MKE focus and Heartland Strategy didnt work out  Sad. Can't NW support a year round LAS flight?or DCA or LGA from MKE? It seems like these routes can at least operate with Express Aircraft........


http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2872 posts, RR: 30
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4990 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 4):
Can't NW support a year round LAS flight?or DCA or LGA from MKE? It seems like these routes can at least operate with Express Aircraft........

The LGA and DCA flights were 44-seat NW Airlink equipment, downgraded over a year ago from Airbus. And the answer is apparnetly no. Short of a few peak travel months where loads were good, both LGA and DCA hovered month after month in the 45-60% load factor range even with only 44 seats to fill. *And* those loads were already boosted by cut throat fare sales and by thru and connecting traffic from Kansas City and Denver.

Vegas has always had good loads, but that was a daytime flight. That means using and aircraft to serve a low-yield flight. NW will do okay during the peak season with a redeye flight, but in other months redeye Vegas flights out of MKE are not that attractive because there are daytime flights on Midwest.


User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4968 times:

[quote=Knope2001,reply=5]The LGA and DCA flights were 44-seat NW Airlink equipment, downgraded over a year ago from Airbus. And the answer is apparently no. Short of a few peak travel months where loads were good, both LGA and DCA hovered month after month in the 45-60% load factor range even with only 44 seats to fill. *And* those loads were already boosted by cut throat fare sales and by thru and connecting traffic from Kansas City and Denver.

Wow that's sad that they couldn't fill a CRJ-440 to popular cities like the ones aforementioned  Sad. But thanks for explaining the situation to me  Smile



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3702 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4941 times:
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Quoting Trvlr (Reply 3):
Congrats to them for fending off NW, though if an equilibrium can be reached between that two that's good as well.

I wouldn't pat YX on the back to much, these cutbacks are a result of Chapter 11, not Timmy and the boys in the Cookie Palace. NW has had to realize that they just can't dump seats into a market to try to gain market share. I'm sure we will see some more cutbacks from IND as well. Chapter 11 is going to make the big red shark look like a little red guppy by the time it is all said and done.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4906 times:

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 7):
wouldn't pat YX on the back to much, these cutbacks are a result of Chapter 11, not Timmy and the boys in the Cookie Palace. NW has had to realize that they just can't dump seats into a market to try to gain market share. I'm sure we will see some more cutbacks from IND as well.

I have to agree this has more to do with chapter 11 than YX. Also I suspect IND to get trimmed though maybe not as much as MKE has/is.

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 7):
Chapter 11 is going to make the big red shark look like a little red guppy by the time it is all said and done.

Here is disagree with you, I think NW will have to pick its battles a tad better and decide which fight is worth fighting and which are not. They will still be a force to reckon with, especially in the Midwest.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3702 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4863 times:
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Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 8):
Here is disagree with you, I think NW will have to pick its battles a tad better and decide which fight is worth fighting and which are not. They will still be a force to reckon with, especially in the Midwest.

I was referring to the fact that they may park up to 106 planes over the next year. If they do this, NW is going to be a lot smaller then they are now, and the Heartland Strategy will most likely fall by the wayside.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4695 times:

doesn't NW have 3X daily service from MKE to BOS using the CR4? Or did they drop that route as well?

User currently offlineJustapassenger From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4543 times:

So what will NW do with their DCA and LGA slots? Sell them? Add more hub flights? Flights from somewhere else?

User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4368 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4497 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Knope2001 (Thread starter):
Des Moines

DSM is not a redeye just for clarification

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 1):

have they dropped DSM-DCA, GRR-DCA, and MSN-DCA as well?

No, not as of yet anyways.

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 5):
Vegas has always had good loads, but that was a daytime flight. That means using and aircraft to serve a low-yield flight. NW will do okay during the peak season with a redeye flight, but in other months redeye Vegas flights out of MKE are not that attractive because there are daytime flights on Midwest.

 checkmark  Couldn't of said it better myself.

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 10):
doesn't NW have 3X daily service from MKE to BOS using the CR4? Or did they drop that route as well?

MKE-BOS is long gone.

A little off subject, but NW needs to drop LAS-FAR, I've never seen such poor loads on an A319 in my life. Last Friday night there was a grand total of 8 people in coach (give or take a few) heading to LAS. Allegiant has that market covered with much lower fares. However by watching loads to the other destinations:

FNT and GRR have very good loads
DSM, and MSN are good to very good, however the Saturday DSM performs poorly (no surprise, Saturday is a low travel day and unforunately DSM is the only NW LAS city with no non-stop to Vegas on Friday).
FSD has decent loads, but could be better (FSD and DSM are Allegiant markets, MSN an ex-Allegiant market).
FAR with very poor loads.

Note: These do not indicate yields though, however I would imagine they are poor yields, especially FNT due to FL with non-stops to Vegas and because of G4 to DSM, FSD, and FAR.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7521 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4272 times:

LAN-DCA is doing okay due to the government connection.

IND in the short term will not experience the cuts that happened in MKE, as NW is backfilling former ATA capacity.

106 jets will not be parked, a fraction of that will, the rest will have renegotiated leasing terms.


User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2872 posts, RR: 30
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4228 times:

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 7):
I wouldn't pat YX on the back to much, these cutbacks are a result of Chapter 11, not Timmy and the boys in the Cookie Palace. NW has had to realize that they just can't dump seats into a market to try to gain market share. I'm sure we will see some more cutbacks from IND as well. Chapter 11 is going to make the big red shark look like a little red guppy by the time it is all said and done.

I disagree strongly, although I don't choose to personalize this to "Timmy and the boys". The fact is that Midwest Airlines has defended its turf in Milwaukee admirably, NW chapter 11 or not. How can I defend this assertion? Simple.

Indianapolis.

Northwest is in chapter 11 and parking up to 106 aircraft between NW and NW*, yet has trimmed Indy very little. As a matter of fact since launching Indy business markets with RJ's, they have upgraded some IND-LGA and IND-DCA flights to mainline aircraft. Northwest is dropping such significant hub routes such as Memphis-San Francisco, Detroit-Portland OR, Minneapolis-Reno and Memphis-Seattle. Yet at the same time Indianpolis is being mostly spared.

If Milwaukee were successful for Northwest, then Northwest would continue to fly these point to point routes just as they are doing in Indianapolis. Giving up on Milwaukee-LaGuardia and Milwaukee-Washington is a fatal blow to NW's viewing Milwaukee as anything more than a key spoke city.

Let's look at the most recently reported 12 month period, from 9/1/04 up to 9/1/05. Northwest's focus city operation was already over a year old, and frequencies to some key markets like LGA, BOS and DCA was being improved by downgrading to 44-seat regional jets. Northwest added markets and topped out at nearly 40 flights per day to 17 cities. Most of the growth was at Northwest Airlink using 44-seat CRJs. During this period Northwest was a fierce price competitor, among other things pushing for weeks a $178 round trip fare from Milwaukee to the east coast *during the peak summer travel season*. Norhtwest also aggressively pushed connecting and thru traffic over the Milwaukee focus city during the heavy summer travel period.

How well did Northwest fill seats during this heavy push in Milwaukee??

NW* seats and onboard passengers for MKE nonhub departures 9/1/4 through 8/31/05 (no MSP or DTW flights):

94,308 Passengers
187,016 Seats

Onboard load factor: 50.4%

And this says nothing of the dubious pricing that Northwest pushed in Milwaukee during this time.

Northwest is cutting where they are losing money. And that includes Milwaukee.

Why did Northwest fly so much empty space out of Milwaukee? It wasn't other airlines at MKE. During this same period every airline lost market share in Milwaukee except for Midwest. Some of the airlines are actually carrying fewer passengers year-over-year, much less keeping up with the growth of the airport as a whole. Northwest's failure in Milwaukee is directly due to the successful defense and even aggression of Midwest in this market.


User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2872 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4206 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 13):
LAN-DCA is doing okay due to the government connection.

IND in the short term will not experience the cuts that happened in MKE, as NW is backfilling former ATA capacity.

LAN-DCA is being dropped after January 4th.

And while NW is flying some former ATA markets to lesiure destinations, ATA did not fly from Indy to Boston, Raleigh, Hartford, Philadelphia, or Washington. The only real business market ATA had at Indy was their fairly short stint on IND-LGA.


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4196 times:

Now what they need to do is abandon such stupid routes like FAR-LAS and increase the freq in markets like MSP-AUS - they could use a A319 reall well on there instead of a -9-30! With B6 coming into AUS now NW might even lose share in the mkt to them and fall further behind AA, CO, and WN there!

User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4191 times:

Now what they need to do is abandon such stupid routes like FAR-LAS and increase the freq in markets like MSP-AUS - they could use a A319 really well on there instead of a DC-9-30! With B6 coming into AUS now NW might even lose share in the mkt to them and fall further behind AA, CO, and WN there!

User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4368 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3948 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 16):
Now what they need to do is abandon such stupid routes like FAR-LAS

 checkmark 

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 16):
and increase the freq in markets like MSP-AUS - they could use a A319 reall well on there instead of a -9-30! With B6 coming into AUS now NW might even lose share in the mkt to them and fall further behind AA, CO, and WN there!

I doubt AUS is a very high priority for NW.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3815 times:

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 18):
I doubt AUS is a very high priority for NW.

I'm suggesting AUS in particular but rather more markets such as AUS that make a lot more sense than say FAR.

AUS has grown in population by nearly two fold in the past 10 years or so and is ever steadily continuing to grow while FAR remains status quo. 3M, another large worldwide company HQ'ed in the Twin Cities has a large facility in Austin and the market is taking a huge influx of Californian migrating that when combined with those such as Dell (HQ in Round Rock, a suburb of Austin to the North,) it is becoming a very lucrative prospective market that NW would be unwise to dismiss just because of the presence of the BiG-3 commerical airlines of the State of Texas (CO,AA,WN.)

All I am saying is that if the route/city doesn't dictate the level of service it has (FAR) or even the service in general (FOD) than get the heck outta there and pour that money into a better route.


User currently offlineSideflare75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3790 times:

Knope don't take anything our friend from Air Tran says seriously. He doesn't like Midwest very much. I think the Midwest pilots he lives in his crash pad with must drink all his beer while he is at work or something. I don't understand it, but hey, to each his own. I guess if you work for an airline you are supposed to hate all the others.

And thanks for all the information you post. It's nice to read some intelligent and well researched posts once in a while.

The bottom line, whether anyone likes it or not, is Midwest is still standing even after we were written off by everyone years ago when Air Tran came to MKE. Then Northwest had their build up. Is everything perfect? Hell no it isn't, but I personally like our chances of survival one hell of alot better today then I did this time last year.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25007 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3770 times:
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Quoting Sideflare75 (Reply 20):
The bottom line, whether anyone likes it or not, is Midwest is still standing even after we were written off by everyone years ago when Air Tran came to MKE.

That is very true. I, for one, am surprised. I didn't think you'd make it.

Well done.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineCIDflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2272 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3750 times:

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 14):
Northwest is dropping such significant hub routes such as Memphis-San Francisco,



Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 14):
Memphis-Seattle.

Is that true that Memphis to SFO and SEA are being dropped?


User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4368 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3707 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 22):
Is that true that Memphis to SFO and SEA are being dropped?

It looks like it's just a seasonal cut this winter, both those routes appear to be back next spring/summer.



Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3670 times:

cidflyer,
mem-sfo/sea are gone on the jan 4th sched change and reinstated on april 5th



bus driver.......move that bus:)
25 AirTran737 : I have never, ever said that I don't like Midwest. I love Midwest. I just think that Timmy is a freaking moron who has put YX in a tailspin that it w
26 Acidradio : I'm not going to try to tell NW how to run an airline, but why this FAR-LAS run? Why are they trying to run Allegiant out of town? Who cares? Allegian
27 KcrwFlyer : You must not know who your dealing with. Sense is not a factor. You'ed think a bankrupt airline might think about that strategy wouldn't you. Your ab
28 Iowaman : FOD is actually doing decent, but the main thing is FOD and MCW are EAS cities.
29 Sideflare75 : I have read your posts, and that's where I get the impression that you don't like Midwest. Every chance you get you seem to jump on any bad news and
30 FCYTravis : Even if it's a seasonal cut... that's #2 and #3 on the list of West Coast destinations. So the only West Coast flight from MEM is LAX?
31 AirTran737 : That was a halarious event when it happend. It wasnt the first time that she had done that, but it was the last. She asked they guy in the exit row i
32 Post contains images BR715-A1-30 : Damn, you two.. I need to start hanging out at MKE more often. Seems like it can get quite fun and funny over there... Personally, I like both airlin
33 Indy : I just got back home from an all day mileage run on NW. One of the NW agents was nice enough to spend some time with me this evening talking about the
34 M404 : Now, if NW gets all the savings they want from BK and makes their costs equal to LCCs it could get interesting again.
35 Iowaman : MEM-LAS and PHX are still around.
36 Sideflare75 : All the money goes right to Tim I think. Just another part of the job. AirTran works on our planes at outstations all the time. It's funny how airlin
37 AirTran737 : That's what I had heard this morning. I de-ice at ASIG on the side and they were all anal about backing up and having a guide person. Did you guys ge
38 AirTran737 : Funny you should mention that. I just came back from the YX hangar picking up some rivet to send to our mechanics in ATL. YX and FL have a great part
39 Sideflare75 : 918 will be out all day today and most likely tomorrow. We are still waiting for a repair approval from Boeing. Maybe we can get some free fuel for o
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