JetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2785 posts, RR: 15 Posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4580 times:
Two or more people traveling together can travel on a transcon flight for $59 each and to Florida for $39 each.
I really don't get this. Why are the fares so amazingly low? Sure, the sale fare must be booked by Nov. 21 and travel completed from Nov. 30-Feb. 15, but isn't JetBlue going to lose money from this? I'm sure this'll spark demand. I sincerely hope B6 knows what they're doing. I'm sure they know what's going to happen but maybe I don't see it.
Perhaps a strike against DL?
Your thoughts?
JetBluefan1
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
Luv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 11957 posts, RR: 51 Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4557 times:
Except for the Holiday period during this time, this time period has very light loads to say the least.
JetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4537 times:
Hopefully it will work and I have a feeling it might. They know what they are doing so hopefully it is a smart move in the long run.
Evan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4520 times:
This is absolutely ridiculous. I would have never expected that you can get an airline ticket which is about 15x faster than a bus ticket or train ticket cheaper! This really pisses me off. Delta, American, and United will hurt from this greatly. Why were LCC's ever started?
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
JetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2785 posts, RR: 15 Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4484 times:
Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3): Delta, American, and United will hurt from this greatly. Why were LCC's ever started?
This shouldn't piss you off. In the business world, the strongest prevails. JetBlue, which has lower costs than the legacy carriers, will prevail in this case.
LCC's were started in order to 1.) lower fares and; 2.) increase traffic, and, ultimately; 3.) make money. Simple as that.
JetBluefan1
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
Evan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2 Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4457 times:
Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 4): LCC's were started in order to 1.) lower fares and; 2.) increase traffic, and, ultimately; 3.) make money. Simple as that.
And to crush Legacies
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
Sspontak From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 467 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4436 times:
The LCC's were started because of their very low costs and they can charge low fares. The problem is that these LCC's free loaded on the hard work of the legacy carriers. These pioneer legacy carriers worked decade after decade to develop the systems and infrastructures that has made our current airline system so great. The legacies incurred tremendous costs (including high labor) to support and maintain these systems and infrastructures. The LCC's have standard and efficient low cost operations that can support these low fares and this is certainly great for the traveling public but disasterous for the legacy carriers.
I always see people saying how unfair it is that the legacies can go into BK to reorganize to try to get on an even playing field with the LCC's. But how fair is it that the LCC's are allowed to swoop in with their low costs and cannabalize the airline industry. This is a vicious cycle that must be allowed to happen if businesses like Jet Blue are allowed to commence and exist.
I'm not sure if this is fair or unfair free enterprise but I guess this depends on which side of the airline industry you are on. Either way, I would imagine this is the best way to protect as many people as possible and to keep the airline business moving in the right direction.
CLEfan From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 299 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4414 times:
Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 4): This shouldn't piss you off. In the business world, the strongest prevails. JetBlue, which has lower costs than the legacy carriers, will prevail in this case.
They might have low costs, but B6's costs are not so low that they could make money charging fares of $0.024 a mile on JFK-LGB or $0.032 a mile on BOS-FLL. The goal with for this price is not make money, its just to put butts into seats that otherwise would have flown empty. What we really know is how many seats are being sold at this price. If it only a few seats a day, then no real biggie. But if they have all the seats or a majority of the seats at this price, they are probably bleeding money. Even though B6 has low CASM, its not low enough to make money on these fares.
Stlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8981 posts, RR: 27 Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4344 times:
when you said, "I'm sure this will spark demand," you answered your own question right there.
just basically JetBlue getting some buzz about their route offerings. not only that, but when they go to the website to book their holiday travel flights, while they might not find the fare they are looking for, they'll already be at the website and see what fares *ARE* being listed and perhaps go ahead and book anyway because they still find it to be a good deal.
free advertising is always the best.
[Edited 2005-11-12 18:46:06]
Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
InTheSky74 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 546 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4330 times:
While I think that this fare sale is going to spark demand, I hope that they severely limited the days / flights to the ones that need bodies in seats.
It makes more sense than the Spirit $9 fare sale - that's just yelling "we're going out of business soon".
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4658 posts, RR: 45 Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4310 times:
Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 4): This shouldn't piss you off. In the business world, the strongest prevails. JetBlue, which has lower costs than the legacy carriers, will prevail in this case.
LCC's were started in order to 1.) lower fares and; 2.) increase traffic, and, ultimately; 3.) make money. Simple as that.
JetBluefan1
yes, but jetBlue's costs will continue to rise as they've seen recently. Just be prepared JB1 - the media's little darling may be singing the 'blues' as well soon.
For the legacy-supporters, I'll be having champagne at my apartment on that day!
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31119 posts, RR: 73 Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4286 times:
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 1): Except for the Holiday period during this time, this time period has very light loads to say the least.
Not Boston-South Florida. Demand in that market peaks in late February, not even near Christmas.
Quoting InTheSky74 (Reply 9):
It makes more sense than the Spirit $9 fare sale - that's just yelling "we're going out of business soon".
Haha. Okay, whatever you say. It's a simple fare sale, and the amount of $9 fares available was incredibly minimal. Spirit isn't going anywhere. Anybody remember Spirit's 9/11/02 sale? Every ticket was free. An expensive promotion, but like the $9 fares, it gets the word out very fast. The money an airline loses in running ridiculous sales like a $9 fare sale is usually more than made up for in the free advertising they get. Newspapers nationwide published blurbs "Spirit Airlines sells $9 tickets to the Caribbean". Not only did this give Spirit name recognition, but it got people to say "hey, this airline is now flying to the Caribbean". The amount of money they lost selling those fares is probably less than the amount of placement they got in periodicals and other news sources:
And that is just three examples. Some people don't realize that fare sales often times have a second purpose, and that selling cheap fares not only get passengers in seats to experience the product and perhaps return in the future, but it is usually cheaper to sell $9 seats than take out ads in a newspaper.
Funny how the legacies lived, thrived and turned record profits with Southwest as a major force. Additionally, carriers like PSA, AirCal, America West, Morris Air, etc. all flew in competition with legacy carriers.
Quoting Sspontak (Reply 6): The problem is that these LCC's free loaded on the hard work of the legacy carriers.
Excuse me? The legacies free loaded on the frozen fares of the regulated era that were anti-consumer and anti-business all at the same time. LCCs built themselves up from nothing and thrived even when legacies practiced anti-competitive business.
Quoting Sspontak (Reply 6): These pioneer legacy carriers worked decade after decade to develop the systems and infrastructures that has made our current airline system so great.
You think the legacy carriers did that? It was the US Government who did most of the infrastructure building, particularly during WWII, along with local flying clubs, municipalities, private individuals, etc. In fact, the closest you get to airlines developing infrastructure are airports like BUR that were built to support aircraft manufacturers
Quoting Sspontak (Reply 6): The legacies incurred tremendous costs (including high labor)
Southwest pays their employees more than the legacies
Quoting InTheSky74 (Reply 9): It makes more sense than the Spirit $9 fare sale - that's just yelling "we're going out of business soon".
Spirit, as a private company, does not have to report earnings publically, but all indications point to them being profitable
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11): And that is just three examples. Some people don't realize that fare sales often times have a second purpose, and that selling cheap fares not only get passengers in seats to experience the product and perhaps return in the future, but it is usually cheaper to sell $9 seats than take out ads in a newspaper.
See everyone, listen to Mark. Not only did Spirit generate its own publicity while filling seats that would go unfilled, they also got free news coverage that they would have otherwise had to pay for.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Aa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3338 posts, RR: 9 Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4235 times:
CRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2080 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4203 times:
Ryanair, easyJet, Sterling and other Euro-LCCs make quite a lot of money by having all their refreshments for sale only, incl coffee, tea and still water, while US LCCs offer hot and cold beverages and snacks for free (or included in the ticket)...
Do US LCCs consider the cost of offering these refreshments so low that it's worth it or will we see an end to free refreshments on US carriers as well?
Sspontak From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 467 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4195 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 12): Excuse me? The legacies free loaded on the frozen fares of the regulated era that were anti-consumer and anti-business all at the same time. LCCs built themselves up from nothing and thrived even when legacies practiced anti-competitive business.
It was the government that regulated the fares, not the airlines. The airlines lobbied for deregulation which benefited the airlines and the public. That was almost 30 years ago, a long time before the new generation LCC popped up.
Quoting N1120A (Reply 12): You think the legacy carriers did that? It was the US Government who did most of the infrastructure building, particularly during WWII, along with local flying clubs, municipalities, private individuals, etc. In fact, the closest you get to airlines developing infrastructure are airports like BUR that were built to support aircraft manufacturers
The legaciers did contribute their fair share to these projects along with their participation (and financially) in research and development and technology. These LCC's certainly have gotten a free ride which is absolutely understandable but gives them an unfair advantage. That is why the legacies need the ability to re-organize to be competitive whether in BK or not.
It should be interesting to see the LCC's cost rise as they expand with different fleets and the employees want their fair share of the pie as the legacy costs go down.
Sspontak From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 467 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4153 times:
Quoting Aa757first (Reply 13): Quoting Sspontak (Reply 6):
The problem is that these LCC's free loaded on the hard work of the legacy carriers.
Please give examples.
AAndrew
Participation with aircraft development and facility development
Participation in all airline related technologies including air traffic control
Lobbying and pioneering with opening up the world in the development of passenger, airmail and international routes
Don't fool yourself to think that the government did it all without the huge support of the legacy airlines.
You might want to read up on airline history. Incredibly interesting and you might have a new respect for the legacies and understand why they just won't go away without a fight.
B6sea From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 340 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4153 times:
Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 10): For the legacy-supporters, I'll be having champagne at my apartment on that day!
Seriously, how can you say that. I mean, we aren't talking about Southwest or EasyJet or Ryanair (of which I am not a supporter of)... This is JetBlue, they arent selling the same old seats for lower prices. They have been a majour innovator and sparked majour changes in the industry in just 5 short years (see: song and soon Delta transcons, ptvs on Frontier, ptvs on WestJet) arguably, without B6 none of this would have happened. And then we'd be sitting in the same old boring seat twiddiling our thumbs for five hours on our transcon until we arrived. Whether or not you want to admit it B6 has been a huge positive force in the industry and I think ultimately made the legacies think about customer service for once. Morale: don't wish failure to someone who clearly has a better product but instead wish failure to those who think it's okay to treat their passengers like cattle.
Luv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 11957 posts, RR: 51 Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4090 times:
Quoting Evan767 (Reply 3): This is absolutely ridiculous. I would have never expected that you can get an airline ticket which is about 15x faster than a bus ticket or train ticket cheaper! This really pisses me off. Delta, American, and United will hurt from this greatly. Why were LCC's ever started?
No one said that the so called legacy carriers have to match any fare sale being offered.
Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 10): yes, but jetBlue's costs will continue to rise as they've seen recently. Just be prepared JB1 - the media's little darling may be singing the 'blues' as well soon.
Yes they will, and yes they have planned for it.
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11): Not Boston-South Florida. Demand in that market peaks in late February, not even near Christmas.
I am sure if the demand was so great then this route would not have been included in the fare sale.
Jetdeltamsy From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2984 posts, RR: 8 Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4073 times:
It's a sale. Created to generate interest in the Jetblue product. Obviously these fares are below cost.
Look at Ryanair offering "free" seats throughout Europe. It's to generate interest.
It's ridicilous to charge less than it costs for the service. But it's the nature of the beast these days.
Worked for too many airlines to list. Banktupcy after bankruptcy after bankruptcy.
JetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2785 posts, RR: 15 Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3996 times:
Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 10): yes, but jetBlue's costs will continue to rise as they've seen recently. Just be prepared JB1 - the media's little darling may be singing the 'blues' as well soon.
For the legacy-supporters, I'll be having champagne at my apartment on that day!
Ah yes, the daily "JetBlue will be dead very soon" post.
You're forgetting that 4 out of 6 of our country's legacy carriers are currently in bankruptcy, using our tax dollars for their faults and screwing over their creditors.
As far as the fare sale, I've decided that it's a good idea. It once again sparks some buzz around JetBlue and it's during the slowest time of the year.
JetBluefan1
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
Iowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4099 posts, RR: 7 Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3949 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting CLEfan (Reply 7): They might have low costs, but B6's costs are not so low that they could make money charging fares of $0.024 a mile on JFK-LGB or $0.032 a mile on BOS-FLL. The goal with for this price is not make money,
Not all of those seats are going to be sold for $59 or $39 one way.
Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 23): As far as the fare sale, I've decided that it's a good idea. It once again sparks some buzz around JetBlue and it's during the slowest time of the year.
LCC's have made it affordable for many more americans to fly. I don't see how you can hate the LCC's, when
1. They offer lower fares 95% of the time
2. They pay there employees (WN is a good example) as good if not better than the legacies.
and 3. They offer as much if not more than most the legacies (FL with XM, B6 with XM and PTV's, WN with free peanuts/sodas and snack packs on longer flights with a generous seat pitch).
25 Nkops: Whatever!!! Like MAH4546 said, it is merely a marketing tool to get name recognition out, it's not like all seats were $9.. It obviously worked since
26 Jumbojet: I dont care how cheap the fare is, i wont fly a LCC. my choice is to fly Delta metal even if it means paying more for the ticket. There are many, man
27 Ikramerica: No, some was. Not most. Obviously. Just like when a car is given away by a dealership or a free ipod every hour or some other promotion by a big reta
28 Mariner: I repeat, most of that was done by Pan Am. "That" being: As far as US airlines are concerned - which is what is under discussion here - Pan Am opened
29 Aa757first: Actually, Legend was the first airline to offer DirectTv. Not jetBlue. Actually, we would probably have a meal. AAndrew
30 Iowaman: Totally your opinion, and I respect that. If it wasn't for LCC's fares would be much higher in the first place.
31 ODwyerPW: N1120A, good reply. thanks for helping to set the record straight.
32 Luvfa: Which everyone would complain about how bad the food was
33 BOS2LAF: Yes, let's celebrate other peoples' demise, because that's the mature thing to do.
34 Lightsaber: So true. Who ever runs jetblue's PR isn't paid enough. They seem to get more for their add dollar than anyone else. (Possible exception of Ryanair, b
35 John: When fares go this low...it's usually a sign that there's over capacity and advance bookings absolutely suck.
36 JetBluefan1: I don't think that's the case though. JetBlue always has strong bookings for transcon and Floridian flights. I think that they don't want flights to b
37 Jumbojet: Not to pick on JetBlue, but disapointed with the web experience in that JetBlue doesnt allow you to view seat mappers before you make the purchase. I
38 FlyTweed: I really think that some of us are making this bigger than it needs to be. Although JetBlue had their first real tough quarter this past one since hav
39 JetBluefan1: Ya sure about these? JFK-LGB has had its capacity reduced in order to meet demand, and loads since the beginning of November have been amazing. Also,
40 TransIsland: And of course, don't forget that you probably won't be able to get these advertised rates........ The campaign offers FLL-DCA for $59 one way, or $39
41 Texan: You might want to check up on that in your history book, buddy. The ONLY large airline at the time to support deregulation the whole way through was
42 Iowaman: Obviously JFK-LGB is not possible with the E190 with a reasonable payload, so I would imagine that route would see a reduction in frequencies. I've n
43 JetBluefan1: The JFK-LAS decrease is just seasonal. Back to 6x in the summer. The flights have been operating amazingly full since the end of the summer, but the y
44 Flytweed: JetBlueFan1, you're right. B6 reduces the frequency on these routes because of lower seasonal demand. By saying that the loads are low, I meant with t
45 Ikramerica: But that's only foreign routes! That's not what the whole argument was about. The claim, originally, was the the legacy majors helped to build the IN
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