Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10675 posts, RR: 62 Reply 1, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 12607 times:
This is a different ballgame.
This isn't another Northwest-mechanics situation. Northwest called the mechanics bluff, and egged them on, because they had outsourcing vendors and replacement strikebreakers sitting around waiting to step in. That would not be the case with the Delta pilots -- they can't be replaced as quickly, cheaply or easily as mechanics. If Delta's pilots go on strike -- which I doubt will happen -- that very well could spell the end for Delta.
DALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2451 posts, RR: 15 Reply 2, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12565 times:
It will not go that far. The pilot's union isn't stupid. If they go on strike they know it is the end of their jobs and the airline. The union and the company will come to terms before the judge cancels the contract.
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 23540 posts, RR: 50 Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12519 times:
While not particularly a big fan of organized labor, I do however have to say what is being asked of the pilots is rather preposterous.
The group stepped up to the plate earlier in the year and voluntarily took a hefty average 32% paycut for 5 years. The give back which far exceeded a more traditional 10-20% cut was to meant to be a significant one time contribution to help the company. Now the company is demanding its pilots contribute another 19% in cuts.
No matter how much one happens to make, a 50%+ cut in pay and benefits is not something that seems reasonable to demand of any party.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Alberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2779 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12465 times:
There comes a time when you have to say the hell with the company and fend for yourself. Pilots should not have have to put up with this crap. Not to mention that they ALREADY took a paycut. You can't just keep chopping people salaries until they make poverty wages. And if a strike is the way to show managament that they mean business, so be it...................
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
Wrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9 Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12389 times:
The pilots are in a win win situation.
They are in a position where they know, one strike, and DL is out.
2nd- They have their cozy pay deal, where they get full pay no matter what, untill the last day.
Example- The pilots ( and cabin crew, although i'm not sure about that one) are usualy the only ones NOT to take the pay cut, Everyone from Senior Management, down to check-in staff, engineers etc, have to take a pay cut.
some of money that everyone else has to take out, goes back into paying the pilots saliries.
Bearing in mind that most capitains earn more money than managers.
And this is the situation with every airline in finatual problems.
IMHO- Pilots don't always do their fair share, for example, if the ground staff go on strike, the pilots don't have to worry their heads off, or dash around , filling in for the striking staff.
2- When they de-board the plane and go home for the weekend, they leave their job behind them, they don't have to worry.
This may sound harsh, but how many people here can say that that isn't the truth ?
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
Panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4728 posts, RR: 26 Reply 13, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12359 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4): The group stepped up to the plate earlier in the year and voluntarily took a hefty average 32% paycut for 5 years. The give back which far exceeded a more traditional 10-20% cut was to meant to be a significant one time contribution to help the company. Now the company is demanding its pilots contribute another 19% in cuts.
Voluntarily? If they were really that altruistic, the pay cuts would have happened a long time ago and DL would perhaps not be in as bad shape as it currently is. Yes, management failed in its job to stop the pilots from getting their FAT "United+1" contract a few years ago. But when AA and UA were chopping their pilot pay by 30-33% in 2002, did anyone step up to volunteer anything? The excuse? Because Leo Mullin had managed to maintain (and even increase) DL's cash balance during those lean, post-9/11 years, the pilots said they saw no need to give back because DL was in "better shape" than the others. You had to be blind to think that DL could sustain those kinds of pay rates when all around them, the competition was cutting pay by a third. The $1 billion concessions came at the last minute (in late 2004) to help DL stave off CH.11. And the 32% was coming off of historic highs (when DL pilots were just about the best paid in the industry thanks to "United+1")
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 23540 posts, RR: 50 Reply 15, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12330 times:
Quoting Iluv747400 (Reply 7): A 32% cut and then another 19% cut does not actually equal a 51% cut. If the 19% cut is off the already reduced salaries, it comes out to a 45% total cut or so.
Cuts are off the original base rates. The idea being the original 5 year, and the now additional concessions are only "temporary / voluntary", and eventually there will be a snap back to pre concessions rates.
Offcourse if Delta gets the additional 19% cut as it request by way of a court order tossing the pilots contract out then there is really no requirement to consider the previous cuts temporary. The company would have a blank white sheet to impose all new terms and conditions.
However if that point is reached, it becomes questionable if the company without a collective bargaining agreement has any legal grounds to force the pilots to remain on the job. I suspect not as everyone becomes an "at-will" employee.
Luisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12311 times:
DL pilots have already given the airline enough, DL has to look toward other ways of saving money. If they cant find them, then good riddance. It hurts me to see one of my favorite airlines in such bad shape but unfortunately, as Anne Robinson would say.....
YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK, GOODBYE
When they both filled for CH 11, I tought that NW was the one with the dimmest future, as each day passes by it becomes clearer, DL is on its death bed. We all can agree that one airline needs to die, for a while it seemed like US was the one, now they seem saved, so its either NW or DL, the clook is ticking, place your bets on which one is gonna make it. In the end I do hope we come out with a stronger American Airline industry.
Halls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12272 times:
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9): However I'd venture to guess that it was equal to the stress of not knowing what the future held - if any - for you at their current company.
Just talked to my brother, who is a DL pilot. Your comment above is dead on. At this point, he told me that if the union votes to strike, he'll join his follow pilots on the line. Even if it means he loses his job, because he's not sure he's going to have a job when the dust settles. A shortsighted view IMO, but that's how he sees it.
Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 12): True, but how much do you think pilots earn compared to say your everyday check-in staff, I know they are totaly different, but that's why
Pilots are paid more than CSR's for good reason. A pilot could step in and do the CSR's job if need be. I doubt the CSR could reciprocate.
Quoting Panamair (Reply 13): If they were really that altruistic, the pay cuts would have happened a long time ago and DL would perhaps not be in as bad shape as it currently is. Yes, management failed in its job to stop the pilots from getting their FAT "United+1" contract a few years ago. But when AA and UA were chopping their pilot pay by 30-33% in 2002, did anyone step up to volunteer anything? The excuse? Because Leo Mullin had managed to maintain (and even increase) DL's cash balance during those lean, post-9/11 years, the pilots said they saw no need to give back because DL was in "better shape" than the others.
I've used this very same argument in discussions with my brother. Needless to say we agree to disagree.
Luisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12248 times:
Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 17): Yes, I was saying that's why they take the biggest pay cut.
If the hospitals needed money, do you think they would ask the doctors on £60-000-£100,000 +, compared to a receptionist on £15,000
They take the biggest pay cut in terms of dollars, not in terms of percentages
a pilot makes 100K a year, a check in clerk 20K, A 35% pay cut means 35K a year for a pilot and 7K a year for a check in clerk. But they both still take a 35% pay cut.
Lets say you make a 1000 dollars a month, you pay with that rent, school for the kids, insurance, car, food. Suddenly your employer wants you to just take in 650 dollars. You have grown accustomed over the years to earning 1000 dollars, you cant just go and say OK, sure. You would probably have to move, put your kids in public school, etc in order to be able to adjust to your new earnings, BELIEVE ME, it is not fun having to downsize. They already did it once, It is unfair to ask them to do it again.
As I said above, either DL finds new ways to save money, or DL says bye bye.
Incitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3935 posts, RR: 14 Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12244 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4): The group stepped up to the plate earlier in the year and voluntarily took a hefty average 32% paycut for 5 years.
Please do not get fixated on the 32% "pay cut". That was the average reduction in the flying rates. After that, pilots adjusted their flying patterns to improve their pay. In the end, the net effect of the -32% adjustment in pay scales was more like a 15% pay reduction. So, for purposes of being sympathetic to the pilots, replace 32% with 15%.
DALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2451 posts, RR: 15 Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12221 times:
Why sould they take a paycut? Their rates are still higher than most of the other airlines in the US. If you look at the UAL contract Dl pilots are $20-$30 more an hour in all types. We can't compete with that. Why Leo ever gave them this sky high contract in the first place I'll never understand.
Pope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12202 times:
I still don't know why unions just don't change tactics and make it a given that they accept the same percentage cuts that managment takes. No off-balance sheet bankrupt proof pension plan, no retention bonus bullshit but an honest across the board paycut for everyone.
How can everyone be on the same boat and row in the same direction IF only 10% of the people have lifevests?
Align mgt and employee interest and see how these problems start to resolve themselves.
Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4937 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12163 times:
This still raises a legal question that, to date, isn't answered. If a bankruptcy court voids a collective bargaining agreement, does the bargaining unit, i.e., the unionized employees, have the the right to engage in a strike?
I don't think the Railway Labor Act has any language covering this issue. Frankly, there are convincing arguments for both sides of the issue.
You have to believe that either Delta's pilots or a group of employees at Northwest will eventually go on strike after a court orders a new contract.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out, if a strike does take place.
Gokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1116 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12163 times:
Quoting Alberchico (Reply 6): There comes a time when you have to say the hell with the company and fend for yourself. Pilots should not have have to put up with this crap. Not to mention that they ALREADY took a paycut. You can't just keep chopping people salaries until they make poverty wages. And if a strike is the way to show managament that they mean business, so be it...................
I really find your comments very unfortunate since its not only the pilots job on the line here. You are talking about the whole company and thousands of jobs. DL pilots won't be the only ones to take multiple paycuts. If you look at airlines that is not in bankruptcy right now you can see that they all took that route in the past and I'm sure it helped their financial situation
By no means I am trying to say that DL is in this shape because of its pilots salaries but it obviously had helped the situation.
As for the pilots I feel bad for them due to their paycuts but if they see the big picture this is one of the steps that need to be taken for the brighter future of DL=pilots and the rest of the employees. I don't think going on strike is the wise choice on their behalf or any involved. I hope that DL will resolve this and the pilots will see the big picture and contribute to the reorganization and the future of DL like they always did.
Looking forward to "Flying Delta Jets" in The Future As Always
Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
25 Lightsaber: DL is claiming such: http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/051114/delta.html?.v=5 and While this is painful, DL must be drastic or they're in big trouble. IIRC, 30
26 FlyPNS1: It's sad that it has come to this, but it's not a total surprise. Both sides have a legitimate argument. DL's pilots have to wake up and realize that
27 Pope: I don't disagree with a word you've posted. I too am usually pro-mgt, but I think a fantastic negotiating ploy for the unions would be to tie rank an
28 Gokmengs: Completely agreed, I am not a big fan of unionized labor, but the gap between what the mgmt sacrifices and what they want the rest of the employees t
29 DeltaMIA: Every job requires training. I hope pilots aren't so arrogant that they think they can do everyone else's job at DL just because they can do the one
30 LTBEWR: In any case, it is still a terrible situation for everybody - DL's pilots, other DL workers, the debtholders, leasing companies, the customers, the ai
31 1MillionFlyer: so they make 110,000 for 80 hours of work a month...yeah, that's tough.
32 Evan767: Go ahead pilots. Strike. F*** up my family and my mother's job at DL and the same goes for the rest of the tens of thousands of employees. Throw all o
33 Luisca: 80 hours is just the time they are flying on the plane, what about the time they are going to the airport, preparing for the flight, pre flight opera
34 Alberchico: Your're kidding me right ???????? Do you know how many unpaid hours they have to spend preparing for the flight ? What about the hardships of sim che
35 CALPilot: Most pilots know that it takes training to do a CSA's job. In fact it takes around 4 weeks of training to do that job. How many years training, and e
36 Lono: This is getting interesting.... many of us on here have predicted this as the industry changes.... Unfortunately it will only get worse I fear.... I u
37 Alberchico: There comes a time when you have to say enough is enough. So you suggest pilots just willingly invite management to cut their salary and benefits eve
38 DeltaMIA: It isn't any different for any other Delta employee. Pilots aren't the only ones that are working for DL 24 hours a day/7 days a week/365 days a year
39 Wrighbrothers: It's a hard life isn't it , I'm sure for that money, most people would be willing to do that. Lets not of course forget that they may only do 1 fligh
40 1MillionFlyer: First, there are thousands of consultants and other professionals that do the same thing every week, and work 160 hours a month for about the same mo
41 Jumbojet: Which will take down the airline and have a domino effect that most people here havent even comtemplated yet. Not only will it destroy the jobs of th
42 B727: I'd much rather take a 32% paycut than a 100% paycut anyday. They can start searching for a job, it is free world. B727
43 DeltaMIA: I know and I respect that. I just can't stand the arrogance. Is the higher than God attitude learned in year 5 or 6?
44 Alberchico: You can't compare pilots to doctors, lawyers. They can work as long as they want with bad health, pilots can't. Pilots have to retire at age 60 so th
45 Ejmmsu: It is very simple. DL should offer no more and no less than the industry average for mainline pilots. The Pilots should expect no more and no less tha
46 1MillionFlyer: Southwest's pilots are paid better than any Legacy, it's not the labor, it's how you use it, and what kind of attitude you have. (Southwest mechanics
47 Tornado82: Exactly. Someone with a high school education can be a CSR without any college-level coursework. No offense to CSR's, but it's a simple fact. I didn'
48 Alberchico: Major airlines will never have the simplified management structure that Southwest has. Nor will they have the long periods of profitability that Sout
49 Jumbojet: Delta mgmt needs 325 Million and DALPA'S offer of 95 million isnt that far off. maybe they can negotiate some in between amount that the two sides can
50 Wrighbrothers: WN make their pilots and cabin crew clean the aircrafts after every flight. Full service airline pilots are lucky, they don't have to clean the aircr
51 Alberchico: They are NOT supposed to those trivial jobs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
52 Indio66: Don't worry, if there is a strike, George W of Texas (WN, AA, CO) will step in and save the day!!
53 Luisca: Even though I personally loathe WN, I doubt very much that they would do such a low thing, no captain would endure the humiliation of having to pick
54 Wrighbrothers: Hi Well, when I did LAX-LAS in August with WN, The capitain was picking up rubbish with his hands from the floor, bin bag in hand I have heard of Pilo
55 AeroWesty: Okay, honest question. Those who know me know I don't involve myself in the usual doom and gloom and "should I buy a ticket on ... ?" stuff that goes
56 Jumbojet: I have thought the same thing and being that I have a flight from JFK to CDG this Saturday, I am a little concerned myself. It is not specific nor do
57 Brilondon: The pilots probably would not go on strike but they are not in a real good position, bargaining wise. Delta would look seriously at a judicial arbitra
58 SirOmega: Cant GW step in and break the strike? A 60 or 90 day cooling off period? Didnt he do this with AA a few years back? I would figure that DL coming to a
59 FlyPNS1: In a case such as this, even if the judge grants DL the right to kill the contract, she will first implement a 30-day cooling off period before the c
60 Srbmod: Eastern's pilots', who were in ALPA (As well as the F/As, who were represented by the TWU) walked off the job @ Eastern in a show of support of the I
61 OOer: Quoting CALPilot (Reply 35): Most pilots know that it takes training to do a CSA's job. In fact it takes around 4 weeks of training to do that job. Ho
62 Halls120: I'll bet a pilot can be trained to become a CSR a lot faster than a CSR can be trained to become a pilot.... sounds like jealousy to me.
63 CALPilot: So whats your point? You answered the point! A CSA does do the job after 4weeks (I could do the job in 4weeks), you Cannot get in the cockpit and do
64 CALPilot: I agree, it is not only the pilot who makes a airline run. It is more of a team effort than in a football game. The airline does not run right with a
65 Scotron11: I don't think the situation is about the difference in salaries between a CSR and pilots. Let's be real. For a long time DL pilots had the highest hou
66 Cadet57: B727, welcome to my ru list, seriously. If you dont like your airline or want "job security" go to SW or B6 or Frontier or if you think thats below y
67 RedFlyer: I've seen pilots on WN helping the cabin crew as well. But I don't think it's expected of them. They do it out of a sense of comraderie and team-work
68 AirRyan: I agree I agree - I was against the AMFA mechs at NW but I must admit, I'm behind both pilots unions at NW and DL. No one lives forever, and all airl
69 Cadet57: Idk, but in this world id have to say greed? pride? hard to say, but to maybe give the Unions somethin maybe they should. Plus as you say "a regional
70 MD80fanatic: I think a Captain that helps clean the plane is one that I would hire. This shows me that he personally cares about his bird, and wants to make sure e
71 OttoPylit: I truly feel the pilots won't strike and if they do agree to, you would see a lot of folks get cold feet at the last moment. I think this is all a smo
72 SHUPirate1: No, but they sure could fine the ALPA and imprison Duane Woerth, Dennis Dolan, Paul Rice, and Chris Beebe.
73 Commavia: Agreed. There is posturing going on by both sides. However, Delta's management is no doubt very emboldened by what has happened at Northwest. Even th
74 Halls120: Actually, many pilots already have second businesses on the side. My brother saw the handwriting on the wall, and became a contractor several years a
75 B777-700: Woo! Swinging for the fences right there! Nicely done!
76 Incitatus: Yes, there is that time. For people who are not evil, when that time comes they move on and get another job. Those issues are meaningless when determ
77 TL8490: OttoPylit--- No one could have said that better.....Lets just hope someone from DALPA reads it .....
78 EA CO AS: What a laughable post. Moving on... By all means, please tell them to their faces how little they work. I'm sure they'll either laugh at you or take
79 Alberchico: Trust me, Delta's problems stem from things MUCH bigger then pilot wage issues.............
80 OttoPylit: I never started a warfare rant. And before you go ahead and say it, let me save you the time. "My brother is a DL pilot, blah, blah, blah." Like it m
81 Halls120: I'm sure most retired Delta pilots and many current Delta pilots have the toys you are obviously very jealous of, which is illustrated by the obligat
82 NWA: "WN make their pilots and cabin crew clean the aircrafts after every flight. Full service airline pilots are lucky, they don't have to clean the aircr
83 B777-700: So should they be exempt from the cut that are imposed on all the other employees? What exactly is your point here? I think it's more like he's upset
84 UAL747DEN: If they were to go on strike it would be the end of most of their flying carriers. Those that did want to start over would have to do so at regionals
85 NWA: So pilots are the assholes for not wanting to take the paycuts, but the top people at delta are not? Its amazing how things can work both ways.....
86 NWA: and otto, did it ever occur to you they have other investments? My grandparents have a lot of money and he was a barber and my grandma was a teacher.
87 LegendDC9: Look, the words "strike" and "airline" no longer have any business of being used in the same sentence anymore, unless you are discussing how to bury a
88 Alitalia744: Don't be a prick because someone's speaking badly about your profession.
89 Flyer732: I dont get paid for the time it takes me to get to work, or the extra time I put in every day making sure everything is covered and my airline runs w
90 AMSGOT: I'm not going to judge the choice of the pilots here, nor the people who are against this. I wonder what you all think: What effect would this strike
91 Jumpseat70: Well, I guess it all boils down to whose got the biggest CahOOnes. I have gone through strikes with unions, at least three with TWA. I can tell you th
92 Jumbojet: Delta mgmt needs 325 Million and DALPA'S offer of 95 million isnt that far off. maybe they can negotiate some in between amount that the two sides can
93 Incitatus: No that is not correct. Delta's problems stem from many things, including high pilot wages.
94 Slider: That is true. And those who typically have schedules that require travel, time away from home, transit time, etc, aren't paid for overtime. However,
95 DeltaGuy: Agreed. Many will tell you that it's not just the money, it's the other things that come along with it...work rule revisions, furlough clauses, addit
96 Pope: Can anyone answer the following question: What would a strike accomplish? This is a classic case of cutting your nose off to spite your face. Even a v
97 EA CO AS: For what it's worth, after talking with a few people in employment law that deal with airline issues it appears that voiding the pilot contract is the
98 Wrighbrothers: HI Yeo, and by the sounds of it, thats what DL need right now, team spirit and a sense of pride Almost a kind of sick joke, the spirit of DL is going
99 MD88Captain: I'm a Delta pilot. I will strike if that's the vote. I don't really care at this point whether DAL goes away or not. The problem for me it that our ma
100 OttoPylit: Thats the team spirit! And let me ask you this, do you think ALPA is gonna pay your salary afterwards? I don't think Duane Woerth is into handouts wh
101 PhilSquares: Ok, let me guess you stayed at a Holiday Inn last night too. Just because you know 10 DL pilots, so what? If that what is required to be an "expert" t
102 Luisca: Did you actually read what the airline wants the pilots to accept? this is below human. I am a fricking personall assistant for a corporation and I h
103 Halls120: No, you did not. But your post clearly implies it. The issue currently facing Delta is how to regain profitability. To do that, every employee group
104 Pope: It's employees like this that allowed me to make an ass load of money shorting DL's stock over the last couple of months!
105 OOer: Ok....how the hell would a pilot break a leg? Would it be the looking of baggage handlers outside loading baggage when its -40? Or would it be getting
106 Panamair: OK, enough of the hyperbole and dramatics and on to some facts. Please read the link below (it is DL's 8K filing with the SEC concerning the recent $3
107 Luisca: What the hell is your problem? Do you now agree that a company wont pay disability insurance to its most important employees? You can break a leg or
108 OOer: Well...I guess officers and the CEO could take a bit more...but the rest seems pretty even to me!!!
109 OttoPylit: Do you always just pick what helps your argument and ignore the rest of the story? I've noticed a trend of you doing that. If you can't keep up with
110 OttoPylit: Most important employees? And the other 40,000 Delta workers are just pee-ons, right? It if wasn't for the rest of those pee-ons, whether they be gat
111 B777-700: You don't read much do you? Management has taken the cuts. No, it's not "wants", it's NEEDS. All the other employees have sacrificed, AGAINST THEIR W
112 1MillionFlyer: what is your point? Why should it come with good pay? because you want it to? it doesn't work like that. I do, and they smile and agree. My HP buddy
113 Luisca: lets see it from another perspective then: a pilot makes 150K a year, a good salary for US standarts right? he has a nice house, a good car, kids in
114 1MillionFlyer: I agree. And living life with an entitlement attitude expecting someone else to "make it right" is asking for financial ruin. It is very unfortunate
115 Incitatus: Yes but those employees that strike can be sued as individuals by other employees if they willingly cause the demise of DL.
116 FlyPNS1: Actually, you had a choice. You CHOSE to not have a union to protect you. IF the pilots didn't have a union, they wouldn't have a choice either. I ca
117 OttoPylit: Lets look at it another way. Most Delta people are living paycheck to paycheck and kids are in public schools. In most 2 parent US familes, both pare
118 1MillionFlyer: Actually they could not. Georgia (as most states) is an employment "At will" state. If someone quits with no notice or fails to show up for work the
119 Peterpuck: It's amazing that all the "aviation experts" on here really have no f-ing clue what a pilot's life is like. You really do not know people. Philsquares
120 Wrighbrothers: Now I might get flamed for this, but isn't that the same approach that the BA cargo staff took in August, and lost the airline what.....£40 MILLION.
121 GeorgiaAME: The pilots are out of luck. Period. Unless the court's rule that Delta cannot abrogate the pilots' contract even in the bankruptcy. If they strike, De
122 Incitatus: I don't think it's that simple. The action is coordinated with the intent of causing economic damage by shutting the company down.
123 DALIFS: Okay. I am a fairly new member here and I will be careful not to let emotions spill into my comments too much. However, I am reading through all of th
124 NWA: "Most pilots will find a job within say a few weeks, because the demand is high for them." -Thats why they get paid good money.......just like doctors
125 1MillionFlyer: actually it is. You cannot force people to work, you can terminate them though. This is the best post I have seen on A.Net in months. THANK YOU
126 FlyPNS1: Is that why there are thousands of furloughed pilots in the U.S.? Is that why FedEx has over 15,000 pilot resumes on hand even though FedEx is only h
127 TL8490: DALIFS thank you for stating the case intelligently and without drama....hopefully everyone will read this and take away a little of the Delta Spirit.
128 OOer: Heres an article from today!!! Source: ajc.com By RUSSELL GRANTHAM The Atlanta Journal-Constitution As Delta Air Lines and its pilots union fly toward
129 1MillionFlyer: The average General Physician with 10 years experience makes between 77,500 and 110,000 dollars a year, or less than a DL 777 Captain but with more l
130 B777-700: Thank you, thank you, thank you! It's good to know there's people like you still with us!
131 Panamair: Thanks DALIFS for such a calm and rational response. People like you guys keep many of us flying on Delta. To add to DALIFS's response, many of the c
132 Jumbojet: Isnt that the idea? pay parity between the legacies to maintain competetiveness. They'll be making more or less what other legacy pilots will be maki
133 Skibum9: Check out this article on the Pilot Rally held today. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/051115/delta_pilots.html?.v=3 Apparently, Lee Moak said "This is not abo
134 Panamair: Here's another quote I found interesting: "Pilots said they were angry because they believe the company squandered their past concessions and made bad
135 Luisca: The average delta 777 captain with more seniority than God has 30 years of experience and is just 2-3 years till retirement. So you are not comparing
136 Gift4tbone: Welcome to my RU list. Does anyone know if this affects Delta's subsidaries? Mainly Comair, as I'm flying to NYC next week for thxgiving? Hopefully f
137 Jumbojet: I'm trying to imagine what ATL would look like if there was a Delta strike and eventual shut down of the airline. I mean, Teterboro airport would have
138 DALIFS: Panamair...you got that wrong. That was George Bush' fault ... Ohhh shouldn't have said that.
139 EA CO AS: MD88Captain is far more knowledgeable about this than you, yet you have the temerity to call his info BS? Step off, kid. They could only be sued if t
140 DALIFS: Panamair. Thank you ...and thank you again. The majority of us in the aisles and in the cockpits know what it means to have loyal customers. We will
141 Jumbojet: So because the pilots are threatening to strike DL should back down? Do the pilots really think that the threat of a strike is going to change DL's m
142 GOCAPS16: That's the way how I feel. I guess no one will be flying Delta for the Christmas holidays after reading what's about to happen. [Edited 2005-11-16 01
143 Starrion: When is this strike potentially going to happen? I'm on the road right now, it would be good to know if our flight on Saturday is still going to happe
144 GOCAPS16: I'm booked on a Delta flight to Southern California during the Christmas holiday. I guess I'll be booking on another airline for that trip, just in ca
145 EA CO AS: No, the pilots are threatening to strike to force DL to the bargaining table so they can work out ways to save money other than just hacking away at
146 Jumbojet: I've been flying delta metal exclusively for many years now from the NYC area. In fact, this Saturday I have a flight to CDG but taking a flight to C
147 EA CO AS: In all honesty, that's another part of the way you get management back to the table. They see the booking trends and when they notice people booking
148 Jumbojet: EA CO AS, I understand the thinking behind what DALPA is doing, after all, I am also a unionized employee, however I cant strike no matter what. thank
149 EA CO AS: I don't have all the answers - far from it - but I'd wager that anyone traveling over the next six to eight weeks really has little to worry about. B
150 PIA777: I hope they do not strike. I am currently in San Diego and need to go back home to ATL on Friday and I am traveling to Ord on 11/23. This will really
151 B777-700: HAHAHAHA, oh that's rich! Hey, go back and read reply 134 and think about how you want to word your apology. I'll be waiting to hear it.
152 OttoPylit: Thank you for stating what needs to be said. Welcome to my RU list. BZZZZ!! Wrong. An unplaced new pilot starts off(day 1) at $45,000 a year. A DL FO
153 EA CO AS: Is it? You honestly believe you have a better grasp of and know more about what's going on at DL than an actual DL line captain does?!? Way to eradic
154 1MillionFlyer: Do you honestly beleive a line captain at DL that replies to this thread does so with an open mind and no hidden agenda? Maybe you know less than you
155 Halls120: Yes, I think we all do. You are REALLY hung up on the fact that the pilots have more assets than you do. I haven't, but thanks, I'll check them out.
156 EA CO AS: And only if a strike occurred before the contract was voided. Once it's voided it's like being released by the NMB to self-help and DALPA won't be li
157 EA CO AS: Not at all, especially since his agenda obviously ISN'T hidden. How could it be? But for that matter, why do you think it's up to you to have an open
158 1MillionFlyer: No, that is not how it works. If I get together with my buddies and we decide that we need to make $500,000 that doesn't mean we will get it. The mar
159 OOer: Are you kidding me???? Whats hard is telling your child that you cant buy him/her andything for xmas/b-day because there is barely enough money to pa
160 EA CO AS: I'm referring to what he and his peers are deciding is acceptable to them. For example, I'm sure that if the market dictated that suddenly he was onl
161 Alitalia744: That's the spirit of Delta - and the reason some of us go out of our way to Fly Delta Air Lines. Just had four great flights and each time realize th
162 KevOC3: Go gettem mainline guys. We pilots are behind you.
163 Jumbojet: Couldnt have said that better myself.
164 PhilSquares: I see we're down to personal attacks. Why don't we just say you suck at your job too and we'll make it a day! I have no problem with diverging opinio
165 OttoPylit: Not at all. A pilot starting off makes more money than I do, so why shouldn't they have more assets than I? Now whether they are about to have as man
166 Panamair: OK, I waded through some of the 8K filings and here are key points about DL's turnaround plan that explains why $930 million labor cost cuts are neede
167 FlyPNS1: Problem is that DALPA disputes these numbers because they are from Q205. DALPA believes and has shown in their own response that once all of the cuts
168 Panamair: Thanks for the clarification but my next question would be what is the "holdup" in realization of last year's $1 billion in concessions? The $1 billi
169 FlyPNS1: I don't know what the "holdup" in realizing all the gains would be. This is DALPA's assumption...not mine.
170 Gokmengs: Thanks for the great post, and welcome to my respected user list. I fly DL almost religiously(Plat. Medallion) and its DL's people and its great serv
171 B777-700: I've read the same proposals from Delta that he has. See, that's your whole problem right there. I'm not an outsider, chief. I'm perfectly qualified
172 ContnlEliteCMH: Maybe that's because "what a pilot's life is like" is *completely* irrelevant. As in, not a single shred of resemblance to the argument. Zip. Zilch.
173 PhilSquares: Why don't you just give it a rest. I see your posts have been deleted. Oh, sorry about that. I'm glad there are so many experts on here. Please cance
174 OttoPylit: You promise? I'm gonna hold you to it! OttoPylit
175 Bucky707: Some of the scheduling items took time to implement. Software had to be changed to accomodate the new contract and the big one was the preferential b
176 EA CO AS: It'll be accompanied by airborne pigs leisurely swooping along the frozen landscape of hell.
177 MD88Captain: Despite DALIFS - who is a flight attendant supervisor, aka management, I find as I interact with other employees there is an amazing amount of support
178 Panamair: OK, the main sticking points seem to revolve around whether cost savings have been realized and whether there is really a need for the $325 million o
179 Aanyc: Hmmm....only the pilots at Delta have low morale? You may want to ask the other groups on the property. The flight attendants keep getting screwed. I
180 Foxecho: I have been quiet on this subjects re: Delta lately, but this is why you are on my Respected users list OttoPylit I do not know of ONE Pilot, Flight
181 B777-700: Why not? You were wrong. I'll say this. If the pilots strike and shut the company down, and all of us lose our jobs, I will support any type of class
182 Dl757md: That's the biggest load of BS on this thread. I'm a DL line mechanic and I'm here to tell you the number 100 is as in MAYBE 100 DL mechanics support
183 DALIFS: Wow.... Thank you MD88Captain for the promotion to supervisor. As you do not know who I am and as we are never flying the same aircraft type (if you
184 DeltaMIA: I too echo the "Bull." I can't see a strike as being beneficial to any party involved. I don't support a pilot strike in any form. I value my job at D
185 Bucky707: I don't disagree with any of that. I think both sides are fudging numbers. I am biased I admit, but its fairly obvious that the company picked the fi
186 DALIFS: As a DAL flight attendant, I do not understand this posting. Aanyc, have you considered the fact that our situation within the company is changing mi
187 DALIFS: Thank you. Not sure how we are going to get beyond this but it is good to see the positive movement building for the sole purpose of our existence...
188 Xkorpyoh: Thanks DALIFS.. this is the post I was looking to read in this long thread. I will remain loyal to DL if people like you keep doing a good job. As we
189 EA CO AS: 'Fraid not. But hey, nice try on your part anyway. Which would be fruitless, since ALPA won't be liable for pilots walking if DL tosses their contrac