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Delta's Pilots Could Go On Strike  
User currently offlineAlberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2920 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 13605 times:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10028262/


short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
269 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11630 posts, RR: 61
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13579 times:

This is a different ballgame.

This isn't another Northwest-mechanics situation. Northwest called the mechanics bluff, and egged them on, because they had outsourcing vendors and replacement strikebreakers sitting around waiting to step in. That would not be the case with the Delta pilots -- they can't be replaced as quickly, cheaply or easily as mechanics. If Delta's pilots go on strike -- which I doubt will happen -- that very well could spell the end for Delta.


User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2554 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13537 times:

It will not go that far. The pilot's union isn't stupid. If they go on strike they know it is the end of their jobs and the airline. The union and the company will come to terms before the judge cancels the contract.

User currently offline1millionflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13501 times:

The pilots already got their "full pay til the last day" during the big pay cut, they need to be team players now.

DL cannot take much more bad news.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25369 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13491 times:

While not particularly a big fan of organized labor, I do however have to say what is being asked of the pilots is rather preposterous.

The group stepped up to the plate earlier in the year and voluntarily took a hefty average 32% paycut for 5 years. The give back which far exceeded a more traditional 10-20% cut was to meant to be a significant one time contribution to help the company. Now the company is demanding its pilots contribute another 19% in cuts.

No matter how much one happens to make, a 50%+ cut in pay and benefits is not something that seems reasonable to demand of any party.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineEXMEMWIDGET From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13464 times:

The Delta pilots would do well to remember what happened to Eastern when the EA pilots went on strike for the last time.

User currently offlineAlberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2920 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13437 times:

There comes a time when you have to say the hell with the company and fend for yourself. Pilots should not have have to put up with this crap. Not to mention that they ALREADY took a paycut. You can't just keep chopping people salaries until they make poverty wages. And if a strike is the way to show managament that they mean business, so be it...................


short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently offlineIluv747400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 372 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13433 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
No matter how much one happens to make, a 50%+ cut in pay and benefits is not something that seems reasonable to demand of any party.

A 32% cut and then another 19% cut does not actually equal a 51% cut. If the 19% cut is off the already reduced salaries, it comes out to a 45% total cut or so. Still not great of course...


User currently offlineAlberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2920 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13414 times:

Quoting Iluv747400 (Reply 7):
A 32% cut

even THAT is too much...................



short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13598 posts, RR: 61
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13373 times:
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Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 2):
It will not go that far.

I hope not, but never underestimate the will of someone who thinks they've got nothing to lose.

Quoting EXMEMWIDGET (Reply 5):
The Delta pilots would do well to remember what happened to Eastern when the EA pilots went on strike for the last time.

The most senior ones never flew again. Most got jobs with other carriers though - but not right away, and I'm sure the stress of not knowing what the future held for a job was horrible.

However I'd venture to guess that it was equal to the stress of not knowing what the future held - if any - for you at their current company.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13361 times:

The pilots are in a win win situation.

They are in a position where they know, one strike, and DL is out.
2nd- They have their cozy pay deal, where they get full pay no matter what, untill the last day.

Example- The pilots ( and cabin crew, although i'm not sure about that one) are usualy the only ones NOT to take the pay cut, Everyone from Senior Management, down to check-in staff, engineers etc, have to take a pay cut.
some of money that everyone else has to take out, goes back into paying the pilots saliries.
Bearing in mind that most capitains earn more money than managers.

And this is the situation with every airline in finatual problems.

IMHO- Pilots don't always do their fair share, for example, if the ground staff go on strike, the pilots don't have to worry their heads off, or dash around , filling in for the striking staff.
2- When they de-board the plane and go home for the weekend, they leave their job behind them, they don't have to worry.

This may sound harsh, but how many people here can say that that isn't the truth ?

Wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8565 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13351 times:
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Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 10):
2nd- They have their cozy pay deal, where they get full pay no matter what, untill the last day.

suggest you re-read reply number 4 - pilots have already taken a big pay cut



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13336 times:

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 11):
suggest you re-read reply number 4 - pilots have already taken a big pay cut



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
No matter how much one happens to make, a 50%+ cut in pay and benefits is not something that seems reasonable to demand of any party.

True, but how much do you think pilots earn compared to say your everyday check-in staff, I know they are totaly different, but that's why

Wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4910 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13331 times:
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Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
The group stepped up to the plate earlier in the year and voluntarily took a hefty average 32% paycut for 5 years. The give back which far exceeded a more traditional 10-20% cut was to meant to be a significant one time contribution to help the company. Now the company is demanding its pilots contribute another 19% in cuts.

Voluntarily? If they were really that altruistic, the pay cuts would have happened a long time ago and DL would perhaps not be in as bad shape as it currently is. Yes, management failed in its job to stop the pilots from getting their FAT "United+1" contract a few years ago. But when AA and UA were chopping their pilot pay by 30-33% in 2002, did anyone step up to volunteer anything? The excuse? Because Leo Mullin had managed to maintain (and even increase) DL's cash balance during those lean, post-9/11 years, the pilots said they saw no need to give back because DL was in "better shape" than the others. You had to be blind to think that DL could sustain those kinds of pay rates when all around them, the competition was cutting pay by a third. The $1 billion concessions came at the last minute (in late 2004) to help DL stave off CH.11. And the 32% was coming off of historic highs (when DL pilots were just about the best paid in the industry thanks to "United+1")


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13598 posts, RR: 61
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13312 times:
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Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 12):
True, but how much do you think pilots earn compared to say your everyday check-in staff

Using your same argument, how much do physicians earn compared to say their receptionists?

Now do you see why your argument is flawed?



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25369 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13302 times:

Quoting Iluv747400 (Reply 7):
A 32% cut and then another 19% cut does not actually equal a 51% cut. If the 19% cut is off the already reduced salaries, it comes out to a 45% total cut or so.

Cuts are off the original base rates. The idea being the original 5 year, and the now additional concessions are only "temporary / voluntary", and eventually there will be a snap back to pre concessions rates.

Offcourse if Delta gets the additional 19% cut as it request by way of a court order tossing the pilots contract out then there is really no requirement to consider the previous cuts temporary. The company would have a blank white sheet to impose all new terms and conditions.

However if that point is reached, it becomes questionable if the company without a collective bargaining agreement has any legal grounds to force the pilots to remain on the job. I suspect not as everyone becomes an "at-will" employee.

Delta Says It Can't Predict Whether It Can Stop a Strike if Pilots Walk Out
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/051114/delta.html?.v=4



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13283 times:

DL pilots have already given the airline enough, DL has to look toward other ways of saving money. If they cant find them, then good riddance. It hurts me to see one of my favorite airlines in such bad shape but unfortunately, as Anne Robinson would say.....

DELTA:

YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK, GOODBYE

When they both filled for CH 11, I tought that NW was the one with the dimmest future, as each day passes by it becomes clearer, DL is on its death bed. We all can agree that one airline needs to die, for a while it seemed like US was the one, now they seem saved, so its either NW or DL, the clook is ticking, place your bets on which one is gonna make it. In the end I do hope we come out with a stronger American Airline industry.

[Edited 2005-11-14 19:09:53]

User currently offlineWrighbrothers From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1875 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13256 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 14):
Using your same argument, how much do physicians earn compared to say their receptionists?

Now do you see why your argument is flawed?

Yes, I was saying that's why they take the biggest pay cut.
If the hospitals needed money, do you think they would ask the doctors on £60-000-£100,000 +, compared to a receptionist on £15,000

Wrighbrothers



Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13244 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):
However I'd venture to guess that it was equal to the stress of not knowing what the future held - if any - for you at their current company.

Just talked to my brother, who is a DL pilot. Your comment above is dead on. At this point, he told me that if the union votes to strike, he'll join his follow pilots on the line. Even if it means he loses his job, because he's not sure he's going to have a job when the dust settles. A shortsighted view IMO, but that's how he sees it.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 12):
True, but how much do you think pilots earn compared to say your everyday check-in staff, I know they are totaly different, but that's why

Pilots are paid more than CSR's for good reason. A pilot could step in and do the CSR's job if need be. I doubt the CSR could reciprocate.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 13):
If they were really that altruistic, the pay cuts would have happened a long time ago and DL would perhaps not be in as bad shape as it currently is. Yes, management failed in its job to stop the pilots from getting their FAT "United+1" contract a few years ago. But when AA and UA were chopping their pilot pay by 30-33% in 2002, did anyone step up to volunteer anything? The excuse? Because Leo Mullin had managed to maintain (and even increase) DL's cash balance during those lean, post-9/11 years, the pilots said they saw no need to give back because DL was in "better shape" than the others.

I've used this very same argument in discussions with my brother. Needless to say we agree to disagree.


User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13220 times:

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 17):
Yes, I was saying that's why they take the biggest pay cut.
If the hospitals needed money, do you think they would ask the doctors on £60-000-£100,000 +, compared to a receptionist on £15,000

Wrighbrothers

They take the biggest pay cut in terms of dollars, not in terms of percentages

a pilot makes 100K a year, a check in clerk 20K, A 35% pay cut means 35K a year for a pilot and 7K a year for a check in clerk. But they both still take a 35% pay cut.

Lets say you make a 1000 dollars a month, you pay with that rent, school for the kids, insurance, car, food. Suddenly your employer wants you to just take in 650 dollars. You have grown accustomed over the years to earning 1000 dollars, you cant just go and say OK, sure. You would probably have to move, put your kids in public school, etc in order to be able to adjust to your new earnings, BELIEVE ME, it is not fun having to downsize. They already did it once, It is unfair to ask them to do it again.

As I said above, either DL finds new ways to save money, or DL says bye bye.


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4014 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13216 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
The group stepped up to the plate earlier in the year and voluntarily took a hefty average 32% paycut for 5 years.

Please do not get fixated on the 32% "pay cut". That was the average reduction in the flying rates. After that, pilots adjusted their flying patterns to improve their pay. In the end, the net effect of the -32% adjustment in pay scales was more like a 15% pay reduction. So, for purposes of being sympathetic to the pilots, replace 32% with 15%.



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User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2554 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13193 times:

Why sould they take a paycut? Their rates are still higher than most of the other airlines in the US. If you look at the UAL contract Dl pilots are $20-$30 more an hour in all types. We can't compete with that. Why Leo ever gave them this sky high contract in the first place I'll never understand.

User currently offlinePope From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13174 times:

I still don't know why unions just don't change tactics and make it a given that they accept the same percentage cuts that managment takes. No off-balance sheet bankrupt proof pension plan, no retention bonus bullshit but an honest across the board paycut for everyone.

How can everyone be on the same boat and row in the same direction IF only 10% of the people have lifevests?

Align mgt and employee interest and see how these problems start to resolve themselves.


User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5236 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13135 times:

This still raises a legal question that, to date, isn't answered. If a bankruptcy court voids a collective bargaining agreement, does the bargaining unit, i.e., the unionized employees, have the the right to engage in a strike?

I don't think the Railway Labor Act has any language covering this issue. Frankly, there are convincing arguments for both sides of the issue.

You have to believe that either Delta's pilots or a group of employees at Northwest will eventually go on strike after a court orders a new contract.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, if a strike does take place.


User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 13135 times:

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 6):
There comes a time when you have to say the hell with the company and fend for yourself. Pilots should not have have to put up with this crap. Not to mention that they ALREADY took a paycut. You can't just keep chopping people salaries until they make poverty wages. And if a strike is the way to show managament that they mean business, so be it...................

I really find your comments very unfortunate since its not only the pilots job on the line here. You are talking about the whole company and thousands of jobs. DL pilots won't be the only ones to take multiple paycuts. If you look at airlines that is not in bankruptcy right now you can see that they all took that route in the past and I'm sure it helped their financial situation
By no means I am trying to say that DL is in this shape because of its pilots salaries but it obviously had helped the situation.
As for the pilots I feel bad for them due to their paycuts but if they see the big picture this is one of the steps that need to be taken for the brighter future of DL=pilots and the rest of the employees. I don't think going on strike is the wise choice on their behalf or any involved. I hope that DL will resolve this and the pilots will see the big picture and contribute to the reorganization and the future of DL like they always did.
Looking forward to "Flying Delta Jets" in The Future As Always Smile



Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
25 Post contains links Lightsaber : DL is claiming such: http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/051114/delta.html?.v=5 and While this is painful, DL must be drastic or they're in big trouble. IIRC, 30
26 FlyPNS1 : It's sad that it has come to this, but it's not a total surprise. Both sides have a legitimate argument. DL's pilots have to wake up and realize that
27 Pope : I don't disagree with a word you've posted. I too am usually pro-mgt, but I think a fantastic negotiating ploy for the unions would be to tie rank an
28 Gokmengs : Completely agreed, I am not a big fan of unionized labor, but the gap between what the mgmt sacrifices and what they want the rest of the employees t
29 DeltaMIA : Every job requires training. I hope pilots aren't so arrogant that they think they can do everyone else's job at DL just because they can do the one
30 LTBEWR : In any case, it is still a terrible situation for everybody - DL's pilots, other DL workers, the debtholders, leasing companies, the customers, the ai
31 1MillionFlyer : so they make 110,000 for 80 hours of work a month...yeah, that's tough.
32 Evan767 : Go ahead pilots. Strike. F*** up my family and my mother's job at DL and the same goes for the rest of the tens of thousands of employees. Throw all o
33 Luisca : 80 hours is just the time they are flying on the plane, what about the time they are going to the airport, preparing for the flight, pre flight opera
34 Alberchico : Your're kidding me right ???????? Do you know how many unpaid hours they have to spend preparing for the flight ? What about the hardships of sim che
35 CALPilot : Most pilots know that it takes training to do a CSA's job. In fact it takes around 4 weeks of training to do that job. How many years training, and e
36 Lono : This is getting interesting.... many of us on here have predicted this as the industry changes.... Unfortunately it will only get worse I fear.... I u
37 Alberchico : There comes a time when you have to say enough is enough. So you suggest pilots just willingly invite management to cut their salary and benefits eve
38 DeltaMIA : It isn't any different for any other Delta employee. Pilots aren't the only ones that are working for DL 24 hours a day/7 days a week/365 days a year
39 Post contains images Wrighbrothers : It's a hard life isn't it , I'm sure for that money, most people would be willing to do that. Lets not of course forget that they may only do 1 fligh
40 1MillionFlyer : First, there are thousands of consultants and other professionals that do the same thing every week, and work 160 hours a month for about the same mo
41 Jumbojet : Which will take down the airline and have a domino effect that most people here havent even comtemplated yet. Not only will it destroy the jobs of th
42 B727 : I'd much rather take a 32% paycut than a 100% paycut anyday. They can start searching for a job, it is free world. B727
43 Post contains images DeltaMIA : I know and I respect that. I just can't stand the arrogance. Is the higher than God attitude learned in year 5 or 6?
44 Alberchico : You can't compare pilots to doctors, lawyers. They can work as long as they want with bad health, pilots can't. Pilots have to retire at age 60 so th
45 Ejmmsu : It is very simple. DL should offer no more and no less than the industry average for mainline pilots. The Pilots should expect no more and no less tha
46 1MillionFlyer : Southwest's pilots are paid better than any Legacy, it's not the labor, it's how you use it, and what kind of attitude you have. (Southwest mechanics
47 Tornado82 : Exactly. Someone with a high school education can be a CSR without any college-level coursework. No offense to CSR's, but it's a simple fact. I didn'
48 Alberchico : Major airlines will never have the simplified management structure that Southwest has. Nor will they have the long periods of profitability that Sout
49 Jumbojet : Delta mgmt needs 325 Million and DALPA'S offer of 95 million isnt that far off. maybe they can negotiate some in between amount that the two sides can
50 Wrighbrothers : WN make their pilots and cabin crew clean the aircrafts after every flight. Full service airline pilots are lucky, they don't have to clean the aircr
51 Alberchico : They are NOT supposed to those trivial jobs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
52 Post contains images Indio66 : Don't worry, if there is a strike, George W of Texas (WN, AA, CO) will step in and save the day!!
53 Luisca : Even though I personally loathe WN, I doubt very much that they would do such a low thing, no captain would endure the humiliation of having to pick
54 Post contains images Wrighbrothers : Hi Well, when I did LAX-LAS in August with WN, The capitain was picking up rubbish with his hands from the floor, bin bag in hand I have heard of Pilo
55 AeroWesty : Okay, honest question. Those who know me know I don't involve myself in the usual doom and gloom and "should I buy a ticket on ... ?" stuff that goes
56 Jumbojet : I have thought the same thing and being that I have a flight from JFK to CDG this Saturday, I am a little concerned myself. It is not specific nor do
57 Brilondon : The pilots probably would not go on strike but they are not in a real good position, bargaining wise. Delta would look seriously at a judicial arbitra
58 SirOmega : Cant GW step in and break the strike? A 60 or 90 day cooling off period? Didnt he do this with AA a few years back? I would figure that DL coming to a
59 FlyPNS1 : In a case such as this, even if the judge grants DL the right to kill the contract, she will first implement a 30-day cooling off period before the c
60 Srbmod : Eastern's pilots', who were in ALPA (As well as the F/As, who were represented by the TWU) walked off the job @ Eastern in a show of support of the I
61 OOer : Quoting CALPilot (Reply 35): Most pilots know that it takes training to do a CSA's job. In fact it takes around 4 weeks of training to do that job. Ho
62 Halls120 : I'll bet a pilot can be trained to become a CSR a lot faster than a CSR can be trained to become a pilot.... sounds like jealousy to me.
63 CALPilot : So whats your point? You answered the point! A CSA does do the job after 4weeks (I could do the job in 4weeks), you Cannot get in the cockpit and do
64 CALPilot : I agree, it is not only the pilot who makes a airline run. It is more of a team effort than in a football game. The airline does not run right with a
65 Scotron11 : I don't think the situation is about the difference in salaries between a CSR and pilots. Let's be real. For a long time DL pilots had the highest hou
66 Cadet57 : B727, welcome to my ru list, seriously. If you dont like your airline or want "job security" go to SW or B6 or Frontier or if you think thats below y
67 RedFlyer : I've seen pilots on WN helping the cabin crew as well. But I don't think it's expected of them. They do it out of a sense of comraderie and team-work
68 AirRyan : I agree I agree - I was against the AMFA mechs at NW but I must admit, I'm behind both pilots unions at NW and DL. No one lives forever, and all airl
69 Cadet57 : Idk, but in this world id have to say greed? pride? hard to say, but to maybe give the Unions somethin maybe they should. Plus as you say "a regional
70 MD80fanatic : I think a Captain that helps clean the plane is one that I would hire. This shows me that he personally cares about his bird, and wants to make sure e
71 Post contains images OttoPylit : I truly feel the pilots won't strike and if they do agree to, you would see a lot of folks get cold feet at the last moment. I think this is all a smo
72 SHUPirate1 : No, but they sure could fine the ALPA and imprison Duane Woerth, Dennis Dolan, Paul Rice, and Chris Beebe.
73 Commavia : Agreed. There is posturing going on by both sides. However, Delta's management is no doubt very emboldened by what has happened at Northwest. Even th
74 Post contains images Halls120 : Actually, many pilots already have second businesses on the side. My brother saw the handwriting on the wall, and became a contractor several years a
75 B777-700 : Woo! Swinging for the fences right there! Nicely done!
76 Incitatus : Yes, there is that time. For people who are not evil, when that time comes they move on and get another job. Those issues are meaningless when determ
77 TL8490 : OttoPylit--- No one could have said that better.....Lets just hope someone from DALPA reads it .....
78 EA CO AS : What a laughable post. Moving on... By all means, please tell them to their faces how little they work. I'm sure they'll either laugh at you or take
79 Alberchico : Trust me, Delta's problems stem from things MUCH bigger then pilot wage issues.............
80 Post contains images OttoPylit : I never started a warfare rant. And before you go ahead and say it, let me save you the time. "My brother is a DL pilot, blah, blah, blah." Like it m
81 Halls120 : I'm sure most retired Delta pilots and many current Delta pilots have the toys you are obviously very jealous of, which is illustrated by the obligat
82 Post contains links NWA : "WN make their pilots and cabin crew clean the aircrafts after every flight. Full service airline pilots are lucky, they don't have to clean the aircr
83 B777-700 : So should they be exempt from the cut that are imposed on all the other employees? What exactly is your point here? I think it's more like he's upset
84 UAL747DEN : If they were to go on strike it would be the end of most of their flying carriers. Those that did want to start over would have to do so at regionals
85 NWA : So pilots are the assholes for not wanting to take the paycuts, but the top people at delta are not? Its amazing how things can work both ways.....
86 NWA : and otto, did it ever occur to you they have other investments? My grandparents have a lot of money and he was a barber and my grandma was a teacher.
87 LegendDC9 : Look, the words "strike" and "airline" no longer have any business of being used in the same sentence anymore, unless you are discussing how to bury a
88 Alitalia744 : Don't be a prick because someone's speaking badly about your profession.
89 Flyer732 : I dont get paid for the time it takes me to get to work, or the extra time I put in every day making sure everything is covered and my airline runs w
90 AMSGOT : I'm not going to judge the choice of the pilots here, nor the people who are against this. I wonder what you all think: What effect would this strike
91 Jumpseat70 : Well, I guess it all boils down to whose got the biggest CahOOnes. I have gone through strikes with unions, at least three with TWA. I can tell you th
92 Jumbojet : Delta mgmt needs 325 Million and DALPA'S offer of 95 million isnt that far off. maybe they can negotiate some in between amount that the two sides can
93 Incitatus : No that is not correct. Delta's problems stem from many things, including high pilot wages.
94 Slider : That is true. And those who typically have schedules that require travel, time away from home, transit time, etc, aren't paid for overtime. However,
95 DeltaGuy : Agreed. Many will tell you that it's not just the money, it's the other things that come along with it...work rule revisions, furlough clauses, addit
96 Pope : Can anyone answer the following question: What would a strike accomplish? This is a classic case of cutting your nose off to spite your face. Even a v
97 EA CO AS : For what it's worth, after talking with a few people in employment law that deal with airline issues it appears that voiding the pilot contract is the
98 Wrighbrothers : HI Yeo, and by the sounds of it, thats what DL need right now, team spirit and a sense of pride Almost a kind of sick joke, the spirit of DL is going
99 MD88Captain : I'm a Delta pilot. I will strike if that's the vote. I don't really care at this point whether DAL goes away or not. The problem for me it that our ma
100 OttoPylit : Thats the team spirit! And let me ask you this, do you think ALPA is gonna pay your salary afterwards? I don't think Duane Woerth is into handouts wh
101 PhilSquares : Ok, let me guess you stayed at a Holiday Inn last night too. Just because you know 10 DL pilots, so what? If that what is required to be an "expert" t
102 Luisca : Did you actually read what the airline wants the pilots to accept? this is below human. I am a fricking personall assistant for a corporation and I h
103 Halls120 : No, you did not. But your post clearly implies it. The issue currently facing Delta is how to regain profitability. To do that, every employee group
104 Pope : It's employees like this that allowed me to make an ass load of money shorting DL's stock over the last couple of months!
105 OOer : Ok....how the hell would a pilot break a leg? Would it be the looking of baggage handlers outside loading baggage when its -40? Or would it be getting
106 Post contains links Panamair : OK, enough of the hyperbole and dramatics and on to some facts. Please read the link below (it is DL's 8K filing with the SEC concerning the recent $3
107 Luisca : What the hell is your problem? Do you now agree that a company wont pay disability insurance to its most important employees? You can break a leg or
108 OOer : Well...I guess officers and the CEO could take a bit more...but the rest seems pretty even to me!!!
109 Post contains links OttoPylit : Do you always just pick what helps your argument and ignore the rest of the story? I've noticed a trend of you doing that. If you can't keep up with
110 OttoPylit : Most important employees? And the other 40,000 Delta workers are just pee-ons, right? It if wasn't for the rest of those pee-ons, whether they be gat
111 B777-700 : You don't read much do you? Management has taken the cuts. No, it's not "wants", it's NEEDS. All the other employees have sacrificed, AGAINST THEIR W
112 1MillionFlyer : what is your point? Why should it come with good pay? because you want it to? it doesn't work like that. I do, and they smile and agree. My HP buddy
113 Luisca : lets see it from another perspective then: a pilot makes 150K a year, a good salary for US standarts right? he has a nice house, a good car, kids in
114 1MillionFlyer : I agree. And living life with an entitlement attitude expecting someone else to "make it right" is asking for financial ruin. It is very unfortunate
115 Incitatus : Yes but those employees that strike can be sued as individuals by other employees if they willingly cause the demise of DL.
116 FlyPNS1 : Actually, you had a choice. You CHOSE to not have a union to protect you. IF the pilots didn't have a union, they wouldn't have a choice either. I ca
117 OttoPylit : Lets look at it another way. Most Delta people are living paycheck to paycheck and kids are in public schools. In most 2 parent US familes, both pare
118 1MillionFlyer : Actually they could not. Georgia (as most states) is an employment "At will" state. If someone quits with no notice or fails to show up for work the
119 Peterpuck : It's amazing that all the "aviation experts" on here really have no f-ing clue what a pilot's life is like. You really do not know people. Philsquares
120 Wrighbrothers : Now I might get flamed for this, but isn't that the same approach that the BA cargo staff took in August, and lost the airline what.....£40 MILLION.
121 GeorgiaAME : The pilots are out of luck. Period. Unless the court's rule that Delta cannot abrogate the pilots' contract even in the bankruptcy. If they strike, De
122 Incitatus : I don't think it's that simple. The action is coordinated with the intent of causing economic damage by shutting the company down.
123 DALIFS : Okay. I am a fairly new member here and I will be careful not to let emotions spill into my comments too much. However, I am reading through all of th
124 NWA : "Most pilots will find a job within say a few weeks, because the demand is high for them." -Thats why they get paid good money.......just like doctors
125 1MillionFlyer : actually it is. You cannot force people to work, you can terminate them though. This is the best post I have seen on A.Net in months. THANK YOU
126 FlyPNS1 : Is that why there are thousands of furloughed pilots in the U.S.? Is that why FedEx has over 15,000 pilot resumes on hand even though FedEx is only h
127 TL8490 : DALIFS thank you for stating the case intelligently and without drama....hopefully everyone will read this and take away a little of the Delta Spirit.
128 OOer : Heres an article from today!!! Source: ajc.com By RUSSELL GRANTHAM The Atlanta Journal-Constitution As Delta Air Lines and its pilots union fly toward
129 1MillionFlyer : The average General Physician with 10 years experience makes between 77,500 and 110,000 dollars a year, or less than a DL 777 Captain but with more l
130 B777-700 : Thank you, thank you, thank you! It's good to know there's people like you still with us!
131 Panamair : Thanks DALIFS for such a calm and rational response. People like you guys keep many of us flying on Delta. To add to DALIFS's response, many of the c
132 Jumbojet : Isnt that the idea? pay parity between the legacies to maintain competetiveness. They'll be making more or less what other legacy pilots will be maki
133 Post contains links Skibum9 : Check out this article on the Pilot Rally held today. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/051115/delta_pilots.html?.v=3 Apparently, Lee Moak said "This is not abo
134 Panamair : Here's another quote I found interesting: "Pilots said they were angry because they believe the company squandered their past concessions and made bad
135 Luisca : The average delta 777 captain with more seniority than God has 30 years of experience and is just 2-3 years till retirement. So you are not comparing
136 Gift4tbone : Welcome to my RU list. Does anyone know if this affects Delta's subsidaries? Mainly Comair, as I'm flying to NYC next week for thxgiving? Hopefully f
137 Jumbojet : I'm trying to imagine what ATL would look like if there was a Delta strike and eventual shut down of the airline. I mean, Teterboro airport would have
138 Post contains images DALIFS : Panamair...you got that wrong. That was George Bush' fault ... Ohhh shouldn't have said that.
139 EA CO AS : MD88Captain is far more knowledgeable about this than you, yet you have the temerity to call his info BS? Step off, kid. They could only be sued if t
140 DALIFS : Panamair. Thank you ...and thank you again. The majority of us in the aisles and in the cockpits know what it means to have loyal customers. We will
141 Jumbojet : So because the pilots are threatening to strike DL should back down? Do the pilots really think that the threat of a strike is going to change DL's m
142 GOCAPS16 : That's the way how I feel. I guess no one will be flying Delta for the Christmas holidays after reading what's about to happen. [Edited 2005-11-16 01
143 Starrion : When is this strike potentially going to happen? I'm on the road right now, it would be good to know if our flight on Saturday is still going to happe
144 GOCAPS16 : I'm booked on a Delta flight to Southern California during the Christmas holiday. I guess I'll be booking on another airline for that trip, just in ca
145 EA CO AS : No, the pilots are threatening to strike to force DL to the bargaining table so they can work out ways to save money other than just hacking away at
146 Jumbojet : I've been flying delta metal exclusively for many years now from the NYC area. In fact, this Saturday I have a flight to CDG but taking a flight to C
147 EA CO AS : In all honesty, that's another part of the way you get management back to the table. They see the booking trends and when they notice people booking
148 Jumbojet : EA CO AS, I understand the thinking behind what DALPA is doing, after all, I am also a unionized employee, however I cant strike no matter what. thank
149 EA CO AS : I don't have all the answers - far from it - but I'd wager that anyone traveling over the next six to eight weeks really has little to worry about. B
150 PIA777 : I hope they do not strike. I am currently in San Diego and need to go back home to ATL on Friday and I am traveling to Ord on 11/23. This will really
151 Post contains images B777-700 : HAHAHAHA, oh that's rich! Hey, go back and read reply 134 and think about how you want to word your apology. I'll be waiting to hear it.
152 OttoPylit : Thank you for stating what needs to be said. Welcome to my RU list. BZZZZ!! Wrong. An unplaced new pilot starts off(day 1) at $45,000 a year. A DL FO
153 EA CO AS : Is it? You honestly believe you have a better grasp of and know more about what's going on at DL than an actual DL line captain does?!? Way to eradic
154 1MillionFlyer : Do you honestly beleive a line captain at DL that replies to this thread does so with an open mind and no hidden agenda? Maybe you know less than you
155 Halls120 : Yes, I think we all do. You are REALLY hung up on the fact that the pilots have more assets than you do. I haven't, but thanks, I'll check them out.
156 EA CO AS : And only if a strike occurred before the contract was voided. Once it's voided it's like being released by the NMB to self-help and DALPA won't be li
157 EA CO AS : Not at all, especially since his agenda obviously ISN'T hidden. How could it be? But for that matter, why do you think it's up to you to have an open
158 1MillionFlyer : No, that is not how it works. If I get together with my buddies and we decide that we need to make $500,000 that doesn't mean we will get it. The mar
159 OOer : Are you kidding me???? Whats hard is telling your child that you cant buy him/her andything for xmas/b-day because there is barely enough money to pa
160 EA CO AS : I'm referring to what he and his peers are deciding is acceptable to them. For example, I'm sure that if the market dictated that suddenly he was onl
161 Alitalia744 : That's the spirit of Delta - and the reason some of us go out of our way to Fly Delta Air Lines. Just had four great flights and each time realize th
162 KevOC3 : Go gettem mainline guys. We pilots are behind you.
163 Jumbojet : Couldnt have said that better myself.
164 PhilSquares : I see we're down to personal attacks. Why don't we just say you suck at your job too and we'll make it a day! I have no problem with diverging opinio
165 Post contains images OttoPylit : Not at all. A pilot starting off makes more money than I do, so why shouldn't they have more assets than I? Now whether they are about to have as man
166 Panamair : OK, I waded through some of the 8K filings and here are key points about DL's turnaround plan that explains why $930 million labor cost cuts are neede
167 FlyPNS1 : Problem is that DALPA disputes these numbers because they are from Q205. DALPA believes and has shown in their own response that once all of the cuts
168 Panamair : Thanks for the clarification but my next question would be what is the "holdup" in realization of last year's $1 billion in concessions? The $1 billi
169 FlyPNS1 : I don't know what the "holdup" in realizing all the gains would be. This is DALPA's assumption...not mine.
170 Gokmengs : Thanks for the great post, and welcome to my respected user list. I fly DL almost religiously(Plat. Medallion) and its DL's people and its great serv
171 Post contains images B777-700 : I've read the same proposals from Delta that he has. See, that's your whole problem right there. I'm not an outsider, chief. I'm perfectly qualified
172 ContnlEliteCMH : Maybe that's because "what a pilot's life is like" is *completely* irrelevant. As in, not a single shred of resemblance to the argument. Zip. Zilch.
173 PhilSquares : Why don't you just give it a rest. I see your posts have been deleted. Oh, sorry about that. I'm glad there are so many experts on here. Please cance
174 Post contains images OttoPylit : You promise? I'm gonna hold you to it! OttoPylit
175 Bucky707 : Some of the scheduling items took time to implement. Software had to be changed to accomodate the new contract and the big one was the preferential b
176 EA CO AS : It'll be accompanied by airborne pigs leisurely swooping along the frozen landscape of hell.
177 MD88Captain : Despite DALIFS - who is a flight attendant supervisor, aka management, I find as I interact with other employees there is an amazing amount of support
178 Panamair : OK, the main sticking points seem to revolve around whether cost savings have been realized and whether there is really a need for the $325 million o
179 Aanyc : Hmmm....only the pilots at Delta have low morale? You may want to ask the other groups on the property. The flight attendants keep getting screwed. I
180 Foxecho : I have been quiet on this subjects re: Delta lately, but this is why you are on my Respected users list OttoPylit I do not know of ONE Pilot, Flight
181 B777-700 : Why not? You were wrong. I'll say this. If the pilots strike and shut the company down, and all of us lose our jobs, I will support any type of class
182 Dl757md : That's the biggest load of BS on this thread. I'm a DL line mechanic and I'm here to tell you the number 100 is as in MAYBE 100 DL mechanics support
183 DALIFS : Wow.... Thank you MD88Captain for the promotion to supervisor. As you do not know who I am and as we are never flying the same aircraft type (if you
184 DeltaMIA : I too echo the "Bull." I can't see a strike as being beneficial to any party involved. I don't support a pilot strike in any form. I value my job at D
185 Bucky707 : I don't disagree with any of that. I think both sides are fudging numbers. I am biased I admit, but its fairly obvious that the company picked the fi
186 DALIFS : As a DAL flight attendant, I do not understand this posting. Aanyc, have you considered the fact that our situation within the company is changing mi
187 DALIFS : Thank you. Not sure how we are going to get beyond this but it is good to see the positive movement building for the sole purpose of our existence...
188 Xkorpyoh : Thanks DALIFS.. this is the post I was looking to read in this long thread. I will remain loyal to DL if people like you keep doing a good job. As we
189 EA CO AS : 'Fraid not. But hey, nice try on your part anyway. Which would be fruitless, since ALPA won't be liable for pilots walking if DL tosses their contrac
190 IslipWN : Welcome to my RUL, OttoPylit. Joe
191 OOer : Seems to me like the pilots are burning bridges by the minute!!!! I have yet to see a member who is not a pilot support you 'MD88Captain'. I guess you
192 Post contains images Halls120 : Hope you aren't expecting to get anything from your lawsuit. I laugh every time I see someone threaten to sue DALPA and the pilots. Not in our curren
193 B777-700 : Um, yes you are in fact wrong. This argument goes back to you claiming I'm and outsider with Delta, that I have never seen the terms of the contract
194 Halls120 : Keeping options open is a wonderful thing. Problem is, in this case, there is no cause of action available under federal or state law that would allo
195 EA CO AS : Sorry pal. Let's go back to the original post you mention: Again - I said MD88Captain is far more knowledgeable about THIS than you - the "THIS" bein
196 Post contains links EA CO AS : Well - strike the part about DL waiting. Here we go: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10071701/ NEW YORK - Delta Air Lines Inc. asked a U.S. Bankruptcy Cou
197 Halls120 : That Delta turned down binding arbitration speaks volumes. While I hardly ever side with unions, I find it hard to have any sympathy for management w
198 Commavia : So does that mean that this is it? If this measure by Delta is approved by the judge, DALPA will begin planning for a strike?
199 B777-700 : No, we're not. I have every right to call his statement BS. I've read the same thing Delta proposed to them, it is all right there in the open for an
200 Post contains images Lightsaber : Not quite. The judge has the tough job of deciding within the constraints placed upon DL by the DIP financing. People, don't forget, DL is a begger r
201 DeltaGuy : They've already activated the Strike preparedness Committee. It's already being planned for. Thanks for all the meaningful posts, OOer. Way to contri
202 Aanyc : So the weekly conference calls are giving you all the information you need? They are being 100 % honest with you regarding all questions even the tou
203 Post contains images OttoPylit : Since deleted before and after a few modifications to fit to a.net "stringent" and "non-communistic" standards: Quoting MD88Captain (Reply 178): I fin
204 DALIFS : Aanyc, I would love to discuss this subject with you further. I am just not sure this is the right thread for it. If I am wrong, let me know. However
205 Jumpseat70 : Dear MD88Captain, I sincerely do not know what you are talking about when you quote your so called "support" numbers. There is not one individual that
206 OttoPylit : This isn't AA. This is Delta. And if I had to bet whether they were being completely honest, I would say yes. We are in bankruptcy, when you get to t
207 EA CO AS : Question for you, Otto - why is it that you're unwilling to believe anything MD88Captain says, yet you expect everyone to put full faith in YOUR beli
208 Dl757md : I wouldn't mind doing that.....Just as soon as the pilots join the rest of DL employees at the bottom of their respective industry payscales. DL757Md
209 EA CO AS : You're truly a rare individual then. Judging by what most people have been saying, I believe few would share your sentiments - it's usually a matter
210 Bucky707 : I'm not going to get into a pissing contest here, so I simply challenge you to go to the employee connection part of the Deltanet, take a look at the
211 Post contains images Halls120 : A little bit over the top, don't you think? A good point. But what I'm curious to know is why Delta management turned down the pilots offer of bindin
212 Dl757md : You 7th out of 9, 35% behind industry leading Southwest and 14% ahead of USair. So tell me where are you at since DeltaNet doesn't have your payscale?
213 OOer : Pay trampled? No...this will just bring their pay beck to reasonable levels!!!! It will still be very reasonable compared to other US airlines!!!! Yo
214 Skibum9 : EA CO AS - You're writing checks your body can't cash! Borrowing from a famous pilot-oriented movie. The difference between Otto, and the other emplo
215 DAYflyer : I think DL put it pretty well when the called a strike "murder-suicide".
216 B777-700 : No it's not. It's illegal. There needs to be at least one FA who speaks the language on board. Well, judging by the amount of support he's gotten, I
217 FlyPNS1 : The problem with binding arbitration is that it takes too long. I think the prime reason why DL is pushing to abrogate the contract so quickly (rathe
218 Post contains images Lightsaber : Its also good customer support. If you fly into a non-english speaking market or any market with a high proportion of a 2nd language (e.g., Miami, Lo
219 Halls120 : Not always. And what's the rush, anyway? I think the prime reasons Delta turned down aribtration is that 1) they would have to open their books and 2
220 EA CO AS : And their multiple cuts still don't equal the one big one the pilots ALREADY took. It's not an apples to apples comparison. But for what it's worth I
221 Bucky707 : So I can look at the same chart, what position are you? Cause the numbers I saw leave most DL people about 25-27% behind SW. Anyway, to use the same
222 DeltaMIA : 9% is only off the actual payscale. That doesn't include the cuts in health care costs, longevity pay, holiday pay, vacation time, disability and mos
223 Surfdog75 : Then why has the company insisted on a long contract? They could take a temporary cut now and negotiate a long term deal. It's because they think the
224 B777-700 : Ain't no being generous about it. It was 20%. And in the case of the FA's even more. They are being asked to take a cut in proportion to the other em
225 Post contains images EA CO AS : Understood. The pilots original paycut of 32% was also just on the base pay rates. The additional $325M in cuts DL is seeking are mostly via reduced
226 FlyPNS1 : Not if DL bleeds to death waiting for the arbitrator to decide. The $95 million in "immediate" savings isn't going to be enough to get DL through the
227 EA CO AS : I have to wonder if DL would have agreed to that, though. It seems like they're single-mindedly set on having the contract tossed out with no excepti
228 Panamair : What's the rush?? As FlyPNS1 has stated, we're heading into some of the slowest travel times of the year (save for the Christmas to New Year period)
229 EA CO AS : Their motives are to wring the most out of this one-time opportunity that they can, and that's why they're asking for the sun, the moon and the stars
230 Skibum9 : The fact that you say "More than likely" is admission that you don't have a clue! Your example could also be flipped the other way as well, for examp
231 FlyPNS1 : And what's wrong with that? Wouldn't it be smart to have a little breathing room...particularly given the volatility of oil prices? I'll admit it's n
232 B777-700 : Get a life. Are you in bed with the pilots or what? We've already given enough in proportion to what we make. It's the pilots turn. End of story.
233 Aanyc : Yes you have given enough and so have the pilots. Maybe it's time that all layers of management give back a larger portion. Or maybe Delta and the ot
234 EA CO AS : Do I know, with absolute certainty, what is in the minds of DL management? No, and I never claimed to know. I said they'd want to have "just in case"
235 Post contains links Lightsaber : You have a good point there. Eventually the fuel crisis will end. At that point, DL still needs a cost effective structure. Good point. Did everyone
236 Skibum9 : So let me get this straight. From you statements, you are advocating that the pilots should not allow DL to plan for this extra money. The same money
237 DeltaGuy : But the difference in sheer dollars between what you give up, and say a 737 Capt gives up, is monumental. Apples to Oranges. Management made it seem
238 EA CO AS : Not at all. What I'm saying is that DL and the pilots should together negotiate and arrive at a figure that allows them to plan for all of that - and
239 MD88Captain : Do you know what is really going to hurt? It will be people booking away from DAL over the next month or two in anticipation of a job action/shutdown.
240 Post contains images OttoPylit : I don't expect anyone to put faith in my beliefs. You believe what you see. I have seen UFO's, but that doesn't mean I believe in them. Imagine that?
241 EA CO AS : Well, we can agree to disagree. You've made valid points, and I'd like to think I've made some as well. Knowing that a line pilot took such a "Shit h
242 Post contains images DeltaGuy : Thank you MD88Capt. Very well put. As Dos Gringos would say, "It's like clubbin baby seals" DeltaGuy
243 Post contains links Dl757md : The Nov 1 chart for line mechanics which is what I based my numbers off of is at http://dlnet.delta.com/portal/Docume...rison_charts/article_0003763.
244 Post contains images B777-700 : That's pretty much all I was saying too. Otto was just a lot prettier about it. What he said is exactly how I feel, why would I care about what they
245 Panamair : The problem is "what you need" is not an exact science now is it? Management went in with some assumptions about fuel costs but God only knows what m
246 Panamair : What is a "larger portion"? Would 30% satisfy people? Would 50% satisfy people? Getting the top 7 guys (Exec officers) to work for free would only ne
247 Post contains images B777-700 : See, your whole problem is you make too much sense and rational thought for this board.
248 Halls120 : Old Milwaukee? Man, that's just nasty..... My brother and I had a chat the other day, in which he said one mistake DL management continues to make is
249 Bucky707 : I have access to the Deltanet. Here are the numbers from the chart for Line maintenance (chart titled AMT2 liscence line) According to the Delta char
250 Bucky707 : You get what you pay for. At Delta Grinstein and his team have shown themselves to be incompetent. I would rather see Delta pay good money to get a g
251 Halls120 : Now I understand why Delta has chosen to avoid binding arbitration.....
252 Surfdog75 : The problem as I see it is that there was no attempt to work with the pilot group at all. It was, "We've got you by the neck and we're going to squeez
253 Post contains images OttoPylit : Thanks. Its not like I'm not going after pilots just for shits and giggles. Nor do I think they are overpaid. However, they have been able to enjoy i
254 Bucky707 : I know all about GG and the history of Western. He did turn it around, no disputing it. However, I have not been impressed with any he has done here.
255 Bucky707 : where do you get that crap? Tell ya what, do some research. The information is on the web. Find out what other airline pilots make, then get back to
256 Skibum9 : Using only direct peer comparisons to determine the appropriateness of a paycut shouldn't be the only tool used in consideration. I've seen many comp
257 Formerhongky : I'm former Delta management. Left in April. Most of my friends have left too. I got a 30% pay increase by leaving Delta -- most of management is ridi
258 Post contains images B777-700 : Damn, how do we get that guy in as union boss? It's good to see this thread is turning around. I challenge all Delta's detractors to read the above 2
259 Panamair : Actually, the proposal (of the $930 million overall labor cost cuts, including the $325 million for pilots) was presented to DALPA in early September
260 DeltaGuy : And also a history of being non-union friendly. He runs the business as the heratige of his last name suggests, money being #1. DeltaGuy
261 Skibum9 : DeltaGuy, usually you have some things to say and have liked the debate, but I find this comment very offensive and not appropriate for this board.
262 Post contains images OttoPylit : What manager will be union friendly? Actually, in all seriousness, what proof do you hold that he is not union friendly? He was able to win deep conc
263 DeltaGuy : Didn't mean to sound insensitive, and I'm def. not racial in that regard. Just making an assertion, that's all. My apologies that it came off that wa
264 Post contains links KarlB737 : Courtesy: The Detroit News Delta & Northwest Pilots May Have Had Enough Of Cuts - 11/19/05 http://www.detnews.com/2005/business/0511/19/0biz-387006.ht
265 Post contains links KarlB737 : Courtesy: WGCL-TV Delta Decision Not Likely Before Thanksgiving http://www.cbs46.com/Global/story.asp?S=4134780
266 Lono : Indeed... however Grinstein was able to pull all employee groups together... He told us WA was in big trouble and we ALL had to pull together EQUALLY
267 OttoPylit : Lono, that was one of your better posts that I've seen on here. You make good points. The paycuts were different, but a 30% paycut to say, a single fa
268 UAcosCS : They also know they don't have as much leverage that people give them credit for. The company goes Chap 7, and the suits walk away with their money.
269 Lono : Agreed... if DL goes away it will be because of the pilot group.... Your customer service training that DL has given you is worth a fortune.... With
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