Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Gtaa Digging Grave For YYZ?  
User currently offlineSkydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 975 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks ago) and read 4608 times:

Just heard on the radio the GTAA plans to increase landing fees another 6 or 7 percent again. The official announcement will apparently be this week.

YYZ will then have the odious distinction of having the highest airport fees on earth.

Landing fees at YYZ were reported to have increased 289% in the past 15 years.

YYZ landing fees for B-747 were stated to be . . . $13,000 while $7,500 in Tokyo.


Maybe YHM starts to look more attractive now?



LD4


∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks ago) and read 4565 times:

Maybe they'll use the monies to make the runways safe in the rain  duck 

User currently offlineSkydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 975 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4536 times:

Quoting Skydrol (Thread starter):
Landing fees at YYZ were reported to have increased 289% in the past 15 years.

Actually, landing fees were reported to have increased 289% since 1998.

Sorry... I was painting a better picture for the GTAA than they are entitled.




LD4



∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4542 times:

Sad! Very Sad! but...it's not just the GTAA in Canada. As a Canadian living in South Florida, it's so sad to see Canadian airports doing this. It truely is a nightmare for flyers. At least in Toronto, you guys have an alternative AP in YHM. Montreal's alternative commercial airport is BTV or YOW, both almost 21/2 hours away. I go back to YUL every summer to visit friends and family and basically fly into BTV and rent a car. Heck, I have to rent a car anyway, plus I refuel at US gas prices, which is still cheaper than CDN fuel. Fares in the summer and winter can be upto 2/3 cheaper. And now, with the US dollar crashing, there isn't the exchange rate that used to exist. To me, it's not a question of being cheap but a way of not supporting those AP monopolies and supporting lower landing fees south of the border. Once Plattsburgh opens, even better as I'm on the South Shore!!!
 banghead 


User currently offlineDYK From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 407 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

This is unbelievable! Particularly when the feds will be reduce the lease hold rents. Wonder if there will be some carriers who will give up on YYZ?


AC,CP,PW,WD,ND,UA,AA,NW,CO,DL,WA,AS,QX,PR,SQ,AI,TG,MH,JL,9W,IC,UL,PG,BW,NZ,QF,DJ,BA,LH,KL,OA,OS,ME,RJ,HA,AQ
User currently offlineCruiser From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1001 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4427 times:

33% of those landing fees go straight to the federal government. In the US, airports do not pay anything to the federal government, and in some cases, are actually subsidized. It truly is sad that YYZ pays 66% of all airport rents in Canada, yet only processes 33% of the passengers.

James



Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
User currently offlineMark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4410 times:

Well, what can ya do. YYZ's T1-New IS a truly-amazing place and piece of airport infrastructure to boot, but then these things sure don't come cheap. At least, not in the mighty-fine fashion they're building that terminal anyway --kind of a cathedral to commercial aviation  Smile

I'm sure the landing-fee issue will sort itself out a couple years after the Pier F hammerhead is up and running, and the place really starts being put to use like it ought to be. Just a few more years to go is all.


User currently offlineMark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

DLKPA-- Maybe they'll use the monies to make the runways safe in the rain  

A bit snotty as only the 24s near the 401 --especially 24L where the recent crash happened -- really need some attention there. But fair enough in that particular instance anyway. And lo and behold, looks like the Feds just might finally have wakened up to the need for it too, even if they may not go so far as to admit it:

http://www.softcom.net/webnews/wed/df/Ucanada-airsafety.RaXf_Fa6.html


User currently offlineMark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4355 times:

Sflaflight-- It truely is a nightmare for flyers.

Uh-oh. From the sounds of it here it actually sounds more like it truly is more a nightmare for Sflaflight, individually  indifferent   Smile

At least in Toronto, you guys have an alternative AP in YHM.

Not really that alternative, y'know. Not if you're wanting to fly direct to Italy or Hungary or heck even just plain LHR or FRA, for that matter. So c'mon.

Montreal's alternative commercial airport is BTV or YOW, both almost 21/2 hours away.

You have got to be kidding, here. At least in general terms anyway (not specifically for JetBlue customers shuttling between BTV and JFK, say)

I go back to YUL every summer to visit friends and family and basically fly into BTV and rent a car. Heck, I have to rent a car anyway, plus I refuel at US gas prices, which is still cheaper than CDN fuel. Fares in the summer and winter can be upto 2/3 cheaper. And now, with the US dollar crashing, there isn't the exchange rate that used to exist.

Hey, if you truly get that kind of discount --and even if you don't visit friends and family in say Hemmingford or Napierville or even St. Jean-sur-Richelieu -- then why by all means go for it if you don't mind the hour or more each way of driving to and from Burlington.

To me, it's not a question of being cheap but a way of not supporting those AP monopolies and supporting lower landing fees south of the border.

And even if it may actually be somewhat of a political statement on your part, alongside  Smile


Once Plattsburgh opens, even better as I'm on the South Shore!!!

Ah yes, Plattsburgh. Let's see what all comes outta that one all right, since for now it all seems rather embryonic and even maybe a bit clueless, when it comes to actual sked passenger service that may come their way at some point. But good luck to 'em anyway though

http://www.montrealairport-us.com/


User currently offlineYOW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4264 times:

Quoting Mark_D. (Reply 6):
At least, not in the mighty-fine fashion they're building that terminal anyway --kind of a cathedral to commercial aviation

I think most people view T1-New as a bland piece of architecture, with a poor layout and a tonne of wasted space = a tonne of wasted money. Milton politely refers to it along the lines as being an 'alright facility'.


User currently offlineOlympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4150 times:

Quoting YOW (Reply 9):
with a poor layout and a tonne of wasted space

In what way does T1 have a poor layout and a tonne of wasted space? Also, what are your qualifications for making this statement?


User currently offlineFly_yhm From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 1681 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4140 times:

Well I hope Westjet feels the effects of it. People keep saying the people down here have YHM as an alternate well nobody wants to use it.

See if it actually does get more airlines over to YHM.



Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
User currently offlineCayMan From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4108 times:

Where is the outcry in Toronto? Why is NOBODY in local media calling on fed govt to address this blatant inequity?

User currently offlineSkydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 975 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4097 times:

I agree with YOW's comments. After passing through the new T1 at YYZ dozens of times, I am convinced it is another white elephant following up T3 (remember 'the dawn of civilized travel'?) Except the new T1 is plain, white and sterile. There are longer walks to get to some gates than I experienced in T2, and that was one of the common complaints about the linear terminal design. That millions was spent on artwork for the opening of this terminal is absurd when logistics were put on the back burner.

The common waiting area for Jazz flights in the new T1 is sub-par compared to the separate lounges Jazz offered in the old T1. During busy times it gets crowded, hot, with standing room only, and there is a confusing barrage of boarding announcements due to the fact 12 gates serve this common waiting area. And this is supposed to be the greatly improved terminal? Pathetic!

Does anyone consider what a waste of money it is to heat and air condition the volume of air inside a building with a (needless) 75 foot high ceiling in a region with 4 very cold months and 4 very hot months? But it's fine. The airlines will pay for the energy consumed. Natural gas will be a bargain this winter.

How about the cheap-ass tissue paper boarding pass printouts the GTAA check-in kiosks provide? That piece of shit is supposed to be a secure document for passing through security and boarding an aircraft? Not even watermarked. Absolute joke... Even a receipt from Safeway looks more professional.


So now with their new palace, the GTAA got what they deserve and the debts are killing them. Looks like they will make their clients pay their price.




LD4



∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4092 times:

I agree with Skydrol but T1 is just a part of the hole problem GTAA has
on his hands now and lets blame the leases......., I mean a sercretary at GTAA
even has her own secretary!!! over paid and over staffed

YHM will not have a chance as the terminal situation is still a joke for wide body aircraft, thanks to WS YHM still is on the map.

Cheers,


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4059 times:



Quoting Swissy (Reply 14):
I mean a sercretary at GTAA
even has her own secretary!!! over paid and over staffed

Oh hi Swissy....have not seen you for a while. You may well be correct but this info is anecdotal. Some secretaries deserve secretaries.

Quoting CayMan (Reply 12):
Where is the outcry in Toronto? Why is NOBODY in local media calling on fed govt to address this blatant inequity?

Cayman is correct, as usual. As one of the few non-socialists on this site, Mike sees things clearly. The culprit is the Liberal party, not the GTAA.

The GTAA if anything should be COMMENDED for all the capital improvements at the airport.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineTribird1011 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4044 times:

Hooray for that GTAA - they are are trying hard to live up to their motto

GTAA ===>> Go To Another Airport

It wouldn't be so bad being the most expensive airport in the world if we had world class attractions and such at the airport - but... the more you pay the less you get  Sad  Sad

As for outcry - I'm not expecting much (different level of gov't) but we have a mayor that get elected for one simple reason - he killed the bridge to the island (hopefully he won't run into the mayor of Chicago to give him some Meiggs-type advice)
kinda suspicious though bringing a few bulldozers and such on the ferry!!!

 banghead   banghead 


User currently offlineBman351 From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4044 times:

Quoting CayMan (Reply 12):
Where is the outcry in Toronto? Why is NOBODY in local media calling on fed govt to address this blatant inequity?

Because we have a stupid government that can't really do anything right. I'm sick and tired of all the stupid politics going on in this country. Not one of our stupid governmental parties be it Liberal, Conservative or NDP are getting along with one and another. However, if they are smart at all they will realize that this sounds really bad... "Toronto Pearson International Airport, the worlds most expensive airport!" Its just retarded.


User currently offlineSkydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 975 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4037 times:

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 15):
Cayman is correct, as usual. As one of the few non-socialists on this site, Mike sees things clearly. The culprit is the Liberal party, not the GTAA.

The culprit is BOTH

Liberal party: greed

GTAA: waste

(in the opinion of a big, bad right-wing redneck westerner)

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 15):
The GTAA if anything should be COMMENDED for all the capital improvements at the airport.

Yeah, like free baggage carts and a street pricing policy for airport restaurants as demonstrated possible by the WAA.



LD4



∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4014 times:

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 18):
The culprit is BOTH

Liberal party: greed

GTAA: waste

Nice try. These fees are DIRECTLY a result of everyone who voted Liberal. Don't try to hide!  Smile

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 18):
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 15):
The GTAA if anything should be COMMENDED for all the capital improvements at the airport.

Yeah, like free baggage carts and a street pricing policy for airport restaurants as demonstrated possible by the WAA.

Umm.no. A new terminal. 3 new runways. Lou Terpin is a BUILDER of Toronto infrastructure. An economic HERO of Toronto. We should all be proud.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1089 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3996 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT

I love the new terminal, and when it becomes active it will be capable of handling more flights than the other three terminals combined. As to the overrun pads... So they are just going to move the 427 eh? Stupid idea. Why not train pilots to land on the right half of the runway? What needs to happen is to have the rent reduced at YYZ. And politically I would rather see the Liberals than Conservatives. Miller is a jerk who can not see the usefulness of YTZ. YHM will not replace YYZ, it just does not have the terminal space for anything other than 737, A320's and RJ's.


DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3955 times:

Quoting Mark_D. (Reply 8):
At least in Toronto, you guys have an alternative AP in YHM.

Not really that alternative, y'know. Not if you're wanting to fly direct to Italy or Hungary or heck even just plain LHR or FRA, for that matter. So c'mon.

Very true Mark_D.  boxedin  But I'm thinking domestically. International is understandable. The same can be said for MOST metropolitan areas in North America. There always is an alternate AP closeby. NYC; BOS with Manchester and Providence; Cleveland with Akron; LAX, Burbank, Ontario etc. YHM could and should be marketed and developed as an alternative to YYZ. But it takes commitment. It's what other secondary airports have been doing worldwide. Look at Frankfurt. Some people will drive / ride trains for miles if the idea is sold and marketed correctly, ask Ryanair.

Quoting Mark_D. (Reply 8):
Montreal's alternative commercial airport is BTV or YOW, both almost 21/2 hours away.

You have got to be kidding, here. At least in general terms anyway (not specifically for JetBlue customers shuttling between BTV and JFK, say)

I just mention this because when using a booking engine such as orbitz and expedia, you have the option of choosing AP nearby. When using that option, BTV and YOW are the two that come up. BTV always comes up first when searching by fares as they don't have the heavy tax burden.
 Wink


But, back to the GTAA. I think YYZ is a great airport. I'm not trying to down grade Canadian airports, believe me, I've been in much worse airports. It boils down to bureaucracy. The GTAA might want to be careful what they wish for. Westjet and other airlines might just get tired of paying, especially when most are tightening up their belts. Where will that leave the GTAA then?

BTW, nice call Cayman. Where is the outcry in the Tdot area anyway?..... good question! But then again, we are talking about the media, the federal gov't, the provincial gov't, the municiPAL gov't. Ah, how the canadian posts always turn into politics, he! he! It's in our blood!
 spin 


User currently offlineYow From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3873 times:

Quoting Olympus69 (Reply 10):
In what way does T1 have a poor layout and a tonne of wasted space? Also, what are your qualifications for making this statement?

Try comparing YYZ to DTW's new terminal. DTW came up with a far better layout and built a superior facility at a far lower cost. As for wasted space, why are the ceilings as tall as the CN Tower (an exaggeration of course but you know what I mean)? All that extra material to build those overly tall structures and the cost to heat or cool all that extra air in the building adds up to big time $$$. Lastly, YYZ relies wayyyyyyy too much on the airlines for revenues. For example, why isn't there a single concession stand in T1-New pre-security? Talk about lost revenue potential.

The GTAA is to be commended for doing what Transport Canada refused to ever do, but in many instances they've gone over the top.


User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1089 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3754 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT

Quoting Yow (Reply 22):
For example, why isn't there a single concession stand in T1-New pre-security? Talk about lost revenue potential.

?? They have a restaurant and bar and gift/news shop with more to follow I am sure when the rest of the terminal opens.



DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
User currently offlineOlympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3639 times:

Quoting Yow (Reply 22):
As for wasted space, why are the ceilings as tall as the CN Tower (an exaggeration of course but you know what I mean)? All that extra material to build those overly tall structures and the cost to heat or cool all that extra air in the building adds up to big time $$$

Ah. Vertical space. I thought you meant area. I suppose you could say that, though I like the airiness a lot better than the low ceilings of Terminal 2. I always thought that place was more appropriate for a subway station than an airport terminal.


25 KrisYYZ : In my opinion the federal government has to give the GTAA a break and come up with a fair rent system. On the other hand, the GTAA needs to get its de
26 MartinairYYZ : Very true, T1 is a beauty, but IATA is totally against it, and the GTAA are beginning to regret it from what I hear becuase: - Hard to keep hot durin
27 Cruiser : Well, it is about 5 years old right now and there are no bulldozers sitting outside of it waiting to pull it down. Honestly, I don't think it is goin
28 Lnglive1011yyz : I'm so frustrated by reading this thread that all I can say is that I'm frustrated. James, you already know my opinion on the GTAA, so I won't even go
29 Swissy : [quote=Lnglive1011yyz,reply=28]I'm so frustrated by reading this thread that all I can say is that I'm frustrated. I could not agree more with you....
30 Legallykev : If I recall correctly, a couple of years ago, BA and an other airline had threatened to leave Toronto as the tax increase were just ridiculous especia
31 Lnglive1011yyz : Yep, but like all corrupt companies and governments, they manage to fudge the numbers so that all airlines pay the same fees, but some get reductions
32 Slawko : 1) Airport rent increases were agreed and approved by the airlines back before the terminal project began. Just because the airlines financial situati
33 Swissy : [quote=Slawko,reply=32]5) Given the fact that in the last year alone 3 new carriers have started flying to Toronto, one of which is locally based, wit
34 Lnglive1011yyz : I disagree with this statement. They just added a DIRECT link right off the 403 to the airport. I used it last time I visited, and it was quite speed
35 Skydrol : Swissy, thank you so much for bringing some sense to this. I am truly disappointed with all the YYZ-locals who think Toronto is the center of the univ
36 Post contains links Cruiser : I am surprised that you make such a statement! Perhaps you haven't done your homework. I could just state the old: Pearson pays 66% of all airport re
37 Swissy : [quote=Cruiser,reply=36]4) A service for moving disabled people to the airplane (which is carried out by the airline at other airports) If you know th
38 ReidYYZ : For all the years that I've worked at Pearson, all I've heard is T1 (old) is too small, too old, too ugly, too difficult to navigate, parking garage
39 Slawko : Isnt that what I just said? with "and today you have a facility at YZ that will be sustainable for many years to come."
40 ReidYYZ : My addition to this thread, simply put, is for those here that do not have the first hand exposure of the airport and its well established complaints
41 Post contains images Slawko : HAHA OK just checking
42 YOW : As I recall the YHM airport authority was literally only weeks away from breaking ground on a new building when WS made their at the time shocking an
43 Swissy : [quote=YOW,reply=42]As I recall the YHM airport authority was literally only weeks away from breaking ground on a new building when WS made their at t
44 ReidYYZ : I am a simple caveman, and thus I don't understand what you are saying. Do you agree with the building of T1?(No one is questioning..) Or do you thin
45 Swissy : T1 was planned well before 9/11, everyone knows that the old T1 & T2 was out dated, at that point all airlines agreed to build it back in the 90's. Al
46 Yyz717 : Look at the loooong view guys....the new T1 will form the basis of YYZ airport for the next 50 years. I'm sure the ROI on this terminal will make it a
47 Swissy : [quote=Yyz717,reply=46]Looks like the Liberal government (who imposed the fees on the GTAA causing the high GTAA fees) will fall tomorrow. So don't vo
48 CayMan : That's just objectively incorrect. Pax numbers have increased substantially, and net gainer of ailrines--this DESPITE Liberal govt mismanagement and
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Etihad Confirmed For YYZ In October posted Mon May 30 2005 07:44:03 by Fiaz
More BAD Press For YYZ! posted Fri Oct 24 2003 19:19:41 by Cayman
? For YYZ Folks posted Wed Nov 27 2002 22:44:49 by Marrrty
Alternate Airports Used For YYZ Diversions posted Thu Jun 20 2002 21:33:24 by AZFAN
Disappointing News For YYZ Spotters. posted Wed Dec 5 2001 08:18:02 by AWspicious
Scanning Frequency For YYZ. posted Sun Feb 4 2001 18:52:27 by Adair
Transit Visa Requirement For AI Pax To YYZ /US posted Mon Aug 7 2006 17:01:20 by TRVYYZ
YYZ Official See Bright Future For YHM posted Thu Jun 1 2006 05:29:46 by RickYHM
Is There Room For AC To Fly Nonstop YYZ To KIX? posted Thu May 18 2006 04:05:46 by AirCanada014
Any Possibilities For CX LHR-YYZ Or MAN-YYZ? posted Sat Jan 28 2006 18:35:30 by Klyk1980