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Long Haul Pilot Dies Of DVT  
User currently offlineJasond From Australia, joined Jul 2009, 23 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5483 times:

Just read a post on PPRuNe about an A345 Captain (SIA) 49 years old that has died from DVT. It was just posted. Is there any truth to this?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26357 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5190 times:

I don't see why a pilot would die of DVT, given that they have plenty of space in the cockpit (particularly a widebody cockpit), and they are definately able to get up and stretch out. There has to be more to this than meets the eye


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8539 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5151 times:
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Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
I don't see why a pilot would die of DVT, given that they have plenty of space in the cockpit (particularly a widebody cockpit), and they are definately able to get up and stretch out. There has to be more to this than meets the eye

DVT does not necessarily ( in spite of the tabloid newspapers referring to it as "economy class syndrome" ) have anything to do with lack of space - J class pax have suffered from it before . I must admit though that I would have expected pilots to be less prone to it due to the requirements for regular medical checkups which would usually pick up if someone was predisposed towards this condition - perhaps post Sept 11 pilots are less inclined to leave the cockpit and walk around the aisles than they once were ?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineMAS777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4642 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):
I don't see why a pilot would die of DVT, given that they have plenty of space in the cockpit (particularly a widebody cockpit), and they are definately able to get up and stretch out. There has to be more to this than meets the eye

DVTs are not events exclusive to flying nor sitting within a confined space so pilots are not excluded from suffering these events. You can still suffer from thromboembolic disease or 'events' despite not ever having flown. Smoking is probably one of the largest single contributing factors.

[Edited 2005-11-16 14:08:36]

User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6582 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4442 times:

I often sit in the flightdeck for 5-6 hours without getting up. Especially so if I don't need the toilet, or if I don't feel the need to stretch my legs. It is bad and I should, but sometimes I forget or am too lazy to do so. DVT is something you can get anywhere when immobile for lengthy periods of time.

User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4681 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4414 times:
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no one dies from a DVT per se, they die when that blood clot in the leg (or even arm) goes to your lung and stops your heart- pulmonary embolism - and you may have very little in the way of any leg symptoms. its actually incredibly common and it has been estimated 10,000 deaths after surgeries in the US alone occur annually from pulmonary embolism, most are preventable!!

User currently offlineTarantine From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4362 times:

DVTs can be caused by dehydration too. Most people that fly do not drink much water and thus become dehydrated, also the air in the cabin is very dry. I have had a DVT in my leg and my doctor made it very clear that I must stay hydrated and keep my legs active.

User currently offlineFilejw From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 359 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4302 times:

The water thing is a big deal, my Dr really pushed it after I had a DVT.I also carry Sports Cord and do so leg exercise after 2 to 3 hrs.

User currently offlineBWI757 From Israel, joined Dec 2004, 429 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4282 times:

For those of us who are medically challenged:

http://www.dvt.net/home.do?id=0

BWI757



I live in the US but my heart is in Jerusalem!
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8539 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4241 times:
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BTW - getting back to the original post - has this report been verified ?


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineJasond From Australia, joined Jul 2009, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3983 times:

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 9):
BTW - getting back to the original post - has this report been verified ?

Yes, thankyou, we still haven't verified this story yet. I first read a post about it on IFDG that pointed to a post on PPRN. Beyond that I have heard nothing else about it.


User currently offlineGasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 857 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3792 times:

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 3):
Smoking is probably one of the largest single contributing factors.

Not really. The biggest risk factors are having surgery, the oral contraceptive pill, and pelvic tumours. Smoking, flying and short periods of immobility are all risk factors, but lesser ones.

Quoting Tarantine (Reply 6):
DVTs can be caused by dehydration too.

The logic that dehydrated blood will be "thicker" and therefore clot more easily is intuitively appealing but has never really been scientifically verified. Somewhat illogically, there is some evidence that haemodilution (ie. too much free water in the circulation) can also predispose to DVT. The best advice when flying is probably simply to do what you would do on land - when thirsty, drink (and not alcohol). And the advice to move around or do passive calf exercises, and avoid pressure points on the legs, is valid and has been well promulgated.

BTW most "DVT stockings" you can buy from a drugstore/pharmacy are completely useless unless they fit properly and extend above the knee.

Cheers

Gasman
a Dr. who spends a fair bit of his time worrying about DVT.


User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 953 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3653 times:

Okay, I've been taken to task on this BB for stating opinions for which I was not exactly qualified to talk about. So be it

I happen to be a physician, and actually do know something about DVTs, and God knows, I've lost too many patients as a result of them.

First off. Economy class syndrome is a myth. I hate flying stearage just as much as the next guy, but it isn't going to kill you. Cramp you, yes. Hurt your back? Yes. Raise your blood pressure being forced to sit next to a smelly, fleshy flyer? Yes. Induce a vascular thrombosis in a leg vein, that propagates 10-20cm, flaps in the vascular stream, breaks off and lodges in your lung, killing you? No. DVTs are always pre-existing conditions, which go sour after you sit for a prolonged period of time, then induce just enough vascular shear to have a chunk break off once you start walking again.

Each and every case you hear about got onto that aircraft with a large, asymptomatic clot already present in his or her leg. The sitting didn't help it, but invariably, they drop dead off the aircraft, probably racing to make their connection, when a chunk of the clot breaks off, and drifts upstream into the heart and then the lungs. Then you die.

I don't know if this is a true story or not, but if it is, that pilot was a hurting puppy before he even sat down in his seat. He was a dead man, long before takeoff. This is an almost impossible disease to diagnose in advance, and it is not particularly common. But poop happens, and how many SIA crew members have flown that route over how many years, for how many hours, all symptom free, and fundamentally healthy?

It is a tragedy, and I'm really glad I wasn't on board when it happened, but it is a fluke, and has almost nothing to do with prolonged sitting behind a yoke.

Now isn't the A380 one of the ugliest aircraft ever to lift off terra firma? It will never sell...



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3456 times:

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 12):
It is a tragedy, and I'm really glad I wasn't on board when it happened, but it is a fluke, and has almost nothing to do with prolonged sitting behind a yoke.

Now isn't the A380 one of the ugliest aircraft ever to lift off terra firma? It will never sell...

It's a real shame there's no "Hall of Fame" for interesting and fun posts, cuz I'd flag this one in and instant. Welcome to my RU for having a sense of humor while also being deadly serious.  Smile



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineJasond From Australia, joined Jul 2009, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3113 times:

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 13):
It's a real shame there's no "Hall of Fame" for interesting and fun posts, cuz I'd flag this one in and instant. Welcome to my RU for having a sense of humor while also being deadly serious.

If I knew it was going to go in this direction I would never have started this thread. All I asked for was if the story could be verified. It seems after several days now it can't so I will assume it is not true.


User currently offlineTinkerBelle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3083 times:

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 12):
It is a tragedy, and I'm really glad I wasn't on board when it happened, but it is a fluke, and has almost nothing to do with prolonged sitting behind a yoke.

Now isn't the A380 one of the ugliest aircraft ever to lift off terra firma? It will never sell...

Great sense of humor....and THANX for some info on DVT.


User currently offlineAcjflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 426 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 13):
It's a real shame there's no "Hall of Fame" for interesting and fun posts, cuz I'd flag this one in and instant. Welcome to my RU for having a sense of humor while also being deadly serious.

I agree completely, great sense of humor and thank you for finally getting everyone to quit the assumption game.


User currently offlineAmhilde From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 643 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2855 times:

Here is another question then- if you have family predisposed to clotting blood, are you more likely to be predisposed to the same condition in your life and hence perhaps more at risk? My father had several knee surgeries and had been rushed to the hospital a few times with blood clots ( or whilst in the hospital) and now has to be on the thinners for the rest of his life. I was just wondering about this in the last week when I was long-hauling it and drinking water and walking around to keep things flowing!


Hang on tightly, Let go lightly
User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 953 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2805 times:

Totally off topic, but in the interest of saving a life, the answer is yes, you can be predisposed to clotting disorders, and there is a very simple blood test looking for Protein C, S, and AntiThrombin III which would suggest that you either do or do not have a problem. If the abnormality is there, I would be especially careful about long distance flying (or sitting behind a computer screen), and your own doctor can direct you.

Again, off topic, I apologize, but it may save a life.

And the Emirates 380 in livery is actually pretty.



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
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