DAL767400ER From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 5721 posts, RR: 50 Reply 1, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12635 times:
Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter): Gotta laugh at the Newspaper describing the difference between a runway and a taxiway . . .
Made for a good laugh, but it's probably the best way to describe it to the flying public.
Too bad the article doesn't mention what the weather conditions were. Not gonna defend the pilot's decision to depart, but there must have been a reason he and his FO mistook a taxiways for a runway.
Flyingbronco05 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3838 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12484 times:
Maybe it's time for ANC to adjust some signs and light systems....
ZakHH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12455 times:
Hmm... if you take a look at this northward "approach" to ANC... I can understand you can confuse the east taxiway with a runway (it looks rather suitable for takeoffs / landings ). But imagining a passenger a/c taking off from the west taxiway...
Btw, here is the "visual approach" (a bit steep maybe ) for Seattle, heading south - I am not a pilot, but you could mistake the west taxiway for a runway at first glance, could you?
ANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12363 times:
Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Reply 2): Maybe it's time for ANC to adjust some signs and light systems....
I might have thought so too - except that was done this summer. In preparation for FedEx and UPS and the A380, the Taxiway Y got a complete once over, and 32/14 was resurfaced, remarked and relighted . . . .
Quoting ZakHH (Reply 3): Hmm... if you take a look at this northward "approach" to ANC...
This picture is 2 years out of date . . . Taxiway Y - to the right of RWY 32 is wider now. And there is a new Taxiway to the left of RWY 32, which can be seen under constrution in the photo you're showing.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 5, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12332 times:
Actually, planes are Big Bear City airport in Big Bear Lake, California currently take off from the parallel taxiway as the main runway has been undergoing reconstruction. It is not the same thing as what happened at ANC, but is funny.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12273 times:
"Runways are the broad concrete expanses where aircraft take off and land. Taxiways are the narrower access roads used by jets and planes to reach the runways for takeoff, or move to the terminal after landing."
A350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1098 posts, RR: 23 Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12178 times:
I wonder why
this wasn't detected by ground radar and
a/c don't have advanced satellite navigation and electronic airport maps detailed enough to see even at bad weather where you are. Is the big ground navigation screen at the A380 really something found on no other airplane?
A350
Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
Threepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12168 times:
You know, for the intended readers of that article, that's really not that bad of a description. While I may have reconsidered the use of the word 'roads', I think the author did a fine job explaining to the non-flyers what the difference is.
However, this comment: "At least eight times since 1999, aircraft have mistaken a certain taxiway for a runway. Three aircraft actually landed, the Times said, while five changed their flight paths at the last minute" referring to landing gaffes at SEA, speaks to the complacency of the pilots. Whether or not you are flying in IMC or visually, there are many visual and navigational clues to alert you if you're lined up on the wrong stretch of pavement. There's no excuse for ignoring or failing to notice an offset localiser. (Knock on wood that I don't do the same thing in future...)
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
HPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3665 posts, RR: 8 Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12133 times:
I also agree that for the average newspaper reader, that description was very good and to the point.
CWAFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 621 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11853 times:
Not really funny at all. Remember the Singapore 747 that took off
on a closed runway in TPE a couple years ago?
ACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7598 posts, RR: 40 Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11800 times:
Couple of questions about this. First of all, did this happen at night or at day? What were the WX conditions like? VMC or IMC?
I would assume that something like this could only happen during daytime IMC conditions. At night, you have 2 very different lighting systems (white for runways and blue for taxiways), so I couldn't imagine getting those mixed up, even in IMC conditions. The pavement markings are also very different and normally unmistakable, but in IMC conditions, it may have been possible to not see the markings clearly.
Anyone who could let us know what the WX conditions were like, that would be great.
CosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2214 posts, RR: 16 Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11705 times:
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4): . Taxiway Y - to the right of RWY 32 is wider now. And there is a new Taxiway to the left of RWY 32, which can be seen under constrution in the photo you're showing.
That's taxiway "R" on the east side of rwy 32. Taxiway "Y" is the newly constructed taxiway on the west side of 32. I'm afraid it doesn't look like a rwy; it has a big yellow stripe down the middle and for the night flyers lots of blue lights.
CHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 63 Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11665 times:
Quoting CWAFlyer (Reply 13): Not really funny at all. Remember the Singapore 747 that took off
on a closed runway in TPE a couple years ago?
Spot on.
Somebody needs to get fired.
Taxiways and runways have different coloured lights dont they? I dont care what anyone says about an honest mistake - thats not acceptable. If stuff that blindingly obvious is going awry, then who can tell about the harder stuff to spot?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
XJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2345 posts, RR: 52 Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11625 times:
Quoting CWAFlyer (Reply 12): Not really funny at all. Remember the Singapore 747 that took off
on a closed runway in TPE a couple years ago?
No one is laughing about the incident, they are laughing at the article's description of the difference of the runway/taxiway description.
Tom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 40 Reply 18, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11428 times:
Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Reply 2): Maybe it's time for ANC to adjust some signs and light systems....
ANC's signage and lighting systems are regulated (just like every other US FAA-certificated airport) by the FAA and its Federal Air Regulations, in this case FAR Part 139. FAA also issues various compliance guidance through its Advisory Circulars. Signage and lighting are both covered in various Advisory Circulars.
I would say pilot familiarity, or in this case the lack thereof, would be the issue here, not signage, and unless it was not functioning at the time, neither is lighting.
Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
SkySurfer From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 1134 posts, RR: 14 Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11365 times:
IIRC, when Fargo's main runway was being reworked last year aircraft routinely used the taxiway to land/take off from. Granted, it was extended slightly and there was no ILS available, but they still did it. The viewing enclosure was closed for ages due to safety distances etc, buggers!
Cheers
In the dark you can't see ugly, but you can feel fat
Argonaut From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 2004, 417 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11294 times:
Quoting SkySurfer (Reply 19): when Fargo's main runway was being reworked last year aircraft routinely used the taxiway to land/take off from
Same thing happens at LGW when maintenance/construction works takes place on the (one and only) main runway. The main taxiway was purposely widened and strengthened to make it possible. I never feel comfortable about it, though--it places the main terminal building more or less right on the extended centre-line.
Loisencroach From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 373 posts, RR: 5 Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11156 times:
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 13): Couple of questions about this. First of all, did this happen at night or at day? What were the WX conditions like? VMC or IMC?
Weather was clear - RVR was runway length and better. It happened at night. The tower is pushing the investigation. Airport 10 was in the vicinity of the "incident", but didn't see anything strange. There is no way to prove it with the CCTV's limited nighttime range.
Pilot21 From Ireland, joined Oct 1999, 1378 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10472 times:
Quoting Argonaut (Reply 20): Same thing happens at LGW when maintenance/construction works takes place on the (one and only) main runway. The main taxiway was purposely widened and strengthened to make it possible. I never feel comfortable about it, though--it places the main terminal building more or less right on the extended centre-line.
I remember an incident at LGW when they were working on the main runway as well, it must have been about 10yrs ago now, but an Air Malta plane landed on the inner taxiway (the taxiway for the main taxiway/backup runway), it was night time and the pilots got confused with the lights, so it has happened in quite a few places. The question has to be how seriously airports/carriers are taking this type of incident compared to runway incursions? Unfortunately it may take a collision between an aircraft on a legitimate taxiway and one that has mistakenly lined up with the wrong strip before it's dealt with seriously??
Csturdiv From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1351 posts, RR: 3 Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10239 times:
Quoting ANCFlyer (Thread starter): Is this a common occurence? Twice in four years two Heavy Jets have departed from ANC using Taxiway Y rather than the adjacent RWY 32.
I know it is not commercial and it is under different circumstances, but several years ago when the idiot mayor of Chicago closed down Meigs in the middle of the night, he had bulldozers and other equipment destroy the runway. In doing this, he stranded numerous airplanes that were parked at Meigs, and they took off from the taxiway.
Qxeguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 81 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9499 times:
I like "...used by jets and planes..."
Yup, we got BOTH KINDS up here!
I fly boxes. Boxes don't bitch. Boxes don't barf. Boxes don't get drunk and do a number 2 on the beverage cart.
25 L-188: Actually China Air tried to use the "K" taxiway from the 32 extension for T/O. Y was still under construction back then so China Air couldn't head no
26 HAL: Yep, China Air took off to the west, starting from nearly half way down the taxiway - that's why they clipped their gear on the way out. This new one
27 Scotland1979: Laughing about that.... how about paint the whole runways neon yellow or orange? help Captains to know the correct ones. $$$ LOL!
28 HAWK21M: Don't the Runways have Markings . How was the Weather at the time. regds MEL
29 ACDC8: Strange how one would not notice the different lighting colors in a situation like this. I'll be very interested to find out the results of the inves
30 EGTESkyGod: In addition, Runway markings are white, taxiway markings are yellow. Even if it was night, and they couldn't tell the difference between green lights
31 ZakHH: Usually, I would say that being a pilot means that you are not allowed to make any mistakes. Never ever. They have to have the highest possible aware
32 Csturdiv: The Blues Brother's Bob's Country Bunker of aviation. Craig
33 CosmicCruiser: Sorry but there really isn't any excuse for this. As they say "that's why you get the big bucks" You don't make mistakes like this. Situational aware
34 Goaliemn: Alot of the stranded planes had to get special waivers from their insurance companies to do this, plus the FAA had to issue some waiver as well. insu
35 Gritzngravee: FCO is similar also, RWY's 17R/35L, 17C/35C and 17L/35R, between 17C/35C and 17L/35R there is a taxi way that runs parallel between both sets of runwa
36 Haj96: Can anyone explain me the difference between a jet and a plane? I always thought that´s the same . Well, you learn something new every day . regards
37 Socalfive: AND, there were TWO pilots simultaneously making the same mistake. So much for Redundancy. As mentioned in previous posts, China Air, EVA Air, Twice
38 Okie: I have been to SEA several times as a passenger and I have always wondered why the heck they put taxiway "T" out on the west boundary of the airport.
39 Bobnwa: If you were writing an article for a newspaper about this incident, how would you describe the difference between a runway and a taxiway.
40 MD80fanatic: I can see it now....speed bumps for all taxiways.
41 Arrow: The average A.netter would write this in such convoluted aviation jargon that no one without a pilot's license would know what the hell he/she was ta
42 Jush: Well you may get confused with taxi-/runway on a photo taken from above or whatever but if you're actually on it it shouldn't be a problem to determin
43 Nudelhirsch: One thing is the approach. You have the charts and (if visible) the lights, but you know exactly what you go into. SEA supposedly has in ILS system an
44 Loisencroach: They denied it immediately after departure.
45 Boeingfanyyz: I'd love to see the A380 try to pull a quick one like the EVA MD-11!!! Cheers, Boeingfanyyz
46 Asqx: Taxiway Tango was built as part of the 3rd runway expansion at Sea-Tac. Eventually there will be an 8,500ft runway to the west of the taxiway. Since
47 L-188: I am going to get in trouble with this, but I have my doubt about how effective CRM concepts have been integrated into Asian carriers, particlarly th
48 Loisencroach: I took CRM last semester. You're absolutely right....Asian carriers have a higher "cockpit gradient" because of their culture, which makes the concept
49 GQfluffy: The Good Ol' Blues Brothers...Boys...Airlines...
50 Trex8: at least it wasn't a 773 or 772LR then! From AWSTs annual source book 2005, FAA field lengths- feet type gross wt-lb TO landing A343 609K 10450 6432
51 Ariis: Excuse me, but what is so funny? I don't quite get it. FAO
52 Crjflyer35: I understand the necessity to "dumb it down" for the general public, but did anyone else think ramp or apron when he described the runway as a broad
53 Pipo777: Relax, if the investigation finds that the aircraft actually took-off from the taxiway...most likely the pilots will get their license taken away and
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). But imagining a passenger a/c taking off from the west taxiway... 
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