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AS Etops Rumors And QX News, Hold Your Horses!  
User currently offlineCessna172RG From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 749 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6013 times:

Ok, in response to the AS 737-800 thread that was posted earlier this week that discussed AS getting ETOPS planes...

After conversing from nearly the horses mouth...

AS is ordering ETOPS equipped 737-800s. But, before you count the new routes, take into account how many are being ordered, and how many MD-80s are in the fleet. If you know the numbers you may see a replacement theory in progress before certain new routes to HNL or NRT or CTS come about. While we'd all love to non-rev to Japan or Hawaii, that is just a rumor.

As for Horizon...

For the next few weeks, Horizon has leased a CRJ-700 with a totally white scheme. No, it is not 604QX, but a totally different jet, that can hold 70 PAX and three galleys and two LAVS, versus one LAV and one galley.

For the Q400s... Horizon is planning to either aquire them and expand or aquire them and get rid of some Q200s. They are looking at using them on routes such as SEA-YYJ (now a strictly Q200 route) or SEA-YLW (which can be oversold often) and possibly SEA-PUW-LWS-SEA (another high yield route). QX is also looking at covering some AS flights, thus relieving AS birds to expand and fly new/different routes. Such ideas are to replace current AS flights on SEA-GEG, SEA-PDX, etc. Horizon already flies a lot of former AS flights out of PDX, including PDX-SFO, PDX-BUR, etc.

Some good news for Californians...

New routes are under the scope for QX. Horizon is looking at expanding its LAX operations to such places as Palm Springs, Modesto, and a few other airports, using the new Q400s. Mexico is also under the gun. QX is contemplating flying to business destinations in Mexico, rather than leisure destinations. Nothing is solid yet, but don't expect QX to start a new service to PVR.

Horizon is also keeping its ears open to other contract flying deals, such as what they currently do for Frontier.

Anyways, that's the latest scuttlebutt. Enjoy and let the comments flow!


Save the whales...for dinner!!!
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5990 times:

Quoting Cessna172RG (Thread starter):
AS is ordering ETOPS equipped 737-800s.

ETOPS is, of course, considerably more complicated than just ordering the equipment for the plane.

Quoting Cessna172RG (Thread starter):
New routes are under the scope for QX. Horizon is looking at expanding its LAX operations to such places as Palm Springs, Modesto, and a few other airports, using the new Q400s. Mexico is also under the gun. QX is contemplating flying to business destinations in Mexico, rather than leisure destinations. Nothing is solid yet, but don't expect QX to start a new service to PVR.

QX doesn't have, and couldn't get, the authority for LAX-PVR even if it wanted it.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5977 times:

Yet more evidence that QX is positioning itself to take over from American Eagle at LAX...

Quoting A330323X (Reply 1):

QX doesn't have, and couldn't get, the authority for LAX-PVR even if it wanted it.

Just out of curiosity, what three U.S. airlines fly LAX-PVR?

Aaron G.


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5944 times:

Quoting Trvlr (Reply 2):
Just out of curiosity, what three U.S. airlines fly LAX-PVR?

Alaska and Mesa (for HP/US Express) currently fly it. None of the the third designations for U.S.-Mexico routes have been given out yet, as the agreement isn't yet in force, but the applications have already been made; United and Delta applied for the third LAX-PVR designation. Since the deadline already passed, Horizon obviously couldn't get it now, but they would never have been awarded it had they applied, since Alaska already holds one of the designations.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineLoisencroach From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 373 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5854 times:

Thanks for the great info.

Quoting Cessna172RG (Thread starter):
Horizon is looking at expanding its LAX operations to such places as Palm Springs, Modesto, and a few other airports, using the new Q400s.

Did you hear if Santa Rosa/Sonoma County was one of the prospects? It would be fantastic if they could start that service around the Feb/Mar. 2006 timeframe.


User currently offlineFlightopsab From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5673 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 1):

ETOPS is, of course, considerably more complicated than just ordering the equipment for the plane.

Of course, it will take a little bit of time for AS to implement an ETOPS program (i.e. Mx, Dx, pilot training changes), then do a bunch of proving flight and then get certified ETOPS. It will take even longer, because they will have to be certified 180 minutes ETOPS in order to fly the legs that you mentioned


User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1170 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5552 times:

Quoting Cessna172RG (Thread starter):
While we'd all love to non-rev to Japan or Hawaii, that is just a rumor.

As is this entire thread. Though I will say this, management has all but confirmed, in several public forums, that they are eyeballing Hawaii for service to begin in the forseeable future. The ETOPS only add fuel to that. If they were just replacing the MD80's with the new 800's then they wouldn't necessarily have to be ETOPS equipped, as the MD's are not. They are equipping these planes for ETOPS for a reason, and they don't need to do it to make the flying to CUN/MCO/MIA quicker. They could accomplish that without ETOPS. It's a costly process and they wouldn't spend the money if they didn't need to.....


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6124 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5377 times:

A330: read the article. It say you will NOT see QX flying LAX-PVR. They will be doing business destinations. If QX hit Mexico, look for Monterry and Hermosillo, though there are a few other cities within range but are small. Horizon lack the CR7's to do to many destinations and as said in the article, LAX is lacking and very difficult to get more space. Working at LAX for 3 weeks now I see how problematic this airport is for AS with only 6 mainly usable AS/QX gates (though we can have more gates during certain hours).


ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13554 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5324 times:
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Quoting Cessna172RG (Thread starter):
AS is ordering ETOPS equipped 737-800s. But, before you count the new routes, take into account how many are being ordered, and how many MD-80s are in the fleet. If you know the numbers you may see a replacement theory in progress before certain new routes to HNL or NRT or CTS come about. While we'd all love to non-rev to Japan or Hawaii, that is just a rumor.

There are only 26 MD-80s in the fleet, meaning at least 9 of the 35 new -800s will be additional lift, not replacement lift.

Also, you have to remember there are options for an additional 65 more, meaning there is a LOT of new additional lift potentially available down the line.

But as others have already opined, the company has publicly stated they ARE evaluating options such as Hawaii. At this point, the question of AS serving the Hawaii market is more a matter of not if, but WHEN.

Furthermore - having spoken with senior management about this yesterday - the company looks at the -800 as their growth vehicle for the future, but has looked at the -900ER as well.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineGeg2rap From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5136 times:

Quoting Cessna172RG (Thread starter):

For the Q400s... Horizon is planning to either aquire them and expand or aquire them and get rid of some Q200s. They are looking at using them on routes such as SEA-YYJ (now a strictly Q200 route) or SEA-YLW (which can be oversold often) and possibly SEA-PUW-LWS-SEA (another high yield route). QX is also looking at covering some AS flights, thus relieving AS birds to expand and fly new/different routes. Such ideas are to replace current AS flights on SEA-GEG, SEA-PDX, etc. Horizon already flies a lot of former AS flights out of PDX, including PDX-SFO, PDX-BUR, etc.

Not into PUW since the Q400 was banned from landing there because neighbors said it was "too loud"
sure makes Xmas fares expensive for college students


User currently offlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1833 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5014 times:

Thanks for all the info. I have been waiting a long time to hear about all this.

Quoting Cessna172RG (Thread starter):
Horizon is planning to either acquire them and expand or acquire them and get rid of some Q200s. They are looking at using them on routes such as SEA-YYJ (now a strictly Q200 route) or SEA-YLW (which can be oversold often)

OK... I agree with you that the Q400s would be suitable for SEA-YYJ. It will be very cool to see (or maybe fly) on a few of these. However, I doubt that they will send a Q400 to YKA. The service now is only seasonal with 1/day frequency. I think QX sometimes has problems filling these flights, and the city of Kamloops has to guarantee a break even flight. I have heard that the only reason QX is still flying this route is because Kamloops is supporting it financialy. Would it be more logical to send a CRJ to YKA instead of a Q400?


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13554 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4827 times:
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Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 10):
Would it be more logical to send a CRJ to YKA instead of a Q400?

IIRC, the Q400 eats the CRJs lunch economically speaking on stage lengths under 500 miles. The CASM for the CRJ would be far higher (and therefore less profitable at any load) than the Q400 at any load.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineFlyingNanook From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 830 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4812 times:

Quoting Cessna172RG (Thread starter):
For the next few weeks, Horizon has leased a CRJ-700 with a totally white scheme. No, it is not 604QX, but a totally different jet, that can hold 70 PAX and three galleys and two LAVS, versus one LAV and one galley

Maybe I'm just having a brain fart (in which case, I should open the window), but where do the extra galleys and lav fit with 70 seats? Don't QX's CRJ-700's already hold 70 people? How did they squeeze these extra amenities on?



Semper ubi sub ubi.
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3093 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4701 times:

Quoting Geg2rap (Reply 9):
Not into PUW since the Q400 was banned from landing there because neighbors said it was "too loud"
sure makes Xmas fares expensive for college students

Ugh. PUW could use some more capacity, as the current 4x daily flights are very full, and the fares are ridiculous (around $450 for a 280 mile flight!). These flights must be some of the highest yielding in the QX system, as they mostly attract only business travel heading to the universities. What's sad is that most students at WSU/UI have to drive to GEG to get a reasonable airfare.

On a related note, does anyone know how the new DL LWS-SLC is doing?


User currently offlineASMD11 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4666 times:

Quoting Cessna172RG (Thread starter):
Such ideas are to replace current AS flights on SEA-GEG, SEA-PDX, etc.

Except that only QX flies the SEA-PDX flights, and reducing AS capacity out of Spokane in favor of QX capacity would be murder, tomorrow the GEG-SEA route is over sold by 105 seats and the SEA-GEG route is over sold by 85 seats. (This is not a one time occurrence either, it is a very common thing.) Taking away the MD80 and 737 service from Spokane would not be a good thing, if anything more AS service needs to be added to that market, not replaced by Q400s.

[Edited 2005-11-18 08:13:39]

User currently offlineSupraZachAir From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Feb 2004, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4558 times:

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 10):
However, I doubt that they will send a Q400 to YKA.

Hmmm... I seem to remember loading more than a handful last year....


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2178 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4541 times:
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Quoting FlyingNanook (Reply 12):
Quoting Cessna172RG (Thread starter):
For the next few weeks, Horizon has leased a CRJ-700 with a totally white scheme. No, it is not 604QX, but a totally different jet, that can hold 70 PAX and three galleys and two LAVS, versus one LAV and one galley

Maybe I'm just having a brain fart (in which case, I should open the window), but where do the extra galleys and lav fit with 70 seats? Don't QX's CRJ-700's already hold 70 people? How did they squeeze these extra amenities on?

Lufthansa CityLine use this config on their CR7s, with one lav and half-cart sized galley up front and a half-cart sized galley in the rear + standard lav. The rear cargo hold becomes smaller as the cabin is lengthened by the equivalent of one more seat row. I think that most pax on LH CityLine routes only carry small bags and laptops as they are biz-people, so no need for big luggage holds.

My $0.02  Smile



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineSupraZachAir From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Feb 2004, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4515 times:

The aft cargo pit is around 100cubic feet smaller and loses about 1000lbs of cargo capability. The aircraft if N290RB, for those interested. Its slated to finished its acceptance check the 21st. We'll see if that happens.

User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2178 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4450 times:
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Why has QX leased a CR7 with a different interior anyway?

Are they upping the inflight service level which will lead to more pax needing to use the can...?  Smile



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineUSAIRWAYS321 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1847 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 13):
What's sad is that most students at WSU/UI have to drive to GEG to get a reasonable airfare.

Very true.

I'm confused as to how they banned the Q400 when there are private jets, as well as the Frontier A319 that the football team charters for away games in and out of PUW (and right over my dorm -- I don't think it's too loud, go figure) on a fairly regular basis.

[Edited 2005-11-18 15:02:28]

User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4364 times:
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Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 19):
I'm confused as to how they banned the Q400

Is the Q400 that loud? I thought the whole point of those big, six-bladed windmills was to get more push at lower RPMs, and therefore less noise. I can't believe it's louder than a jet, or even a Q200 with the 4-blade props. And the thing goes straight up on take-off, so I can't imagine noise would be an issue much beyond the end of the runway

Anyone at QX comment on this?



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6124 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

I don't believe this is the reason YKA doesn't get the Q400. I'll do some research.

ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6124 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4215 times:

Supra:

It ca't be N290RB. Thats is a Bizjet registered to Wells Fargo.

N290RB
Aircraft Serial Number : 10029
Aircraft Manufacturer : BOMBARDIER INC
Model : CL-600-2C10
Engine Manufacturer : GE
Model : CF34 SERIES
Aircraft Year : 2001
Owner Name : WELLS FARGO BANK NORTHWEST NA TRUSTEE
Owner Address : 299 S MAIN ST 12TH FL
: MAC U1228-120
SALT LAKE CITY, UT, 84111
Type of Owner : Corporation
Registration Date : 10-Dec-2004
Airworthiness Certificate Type : Standard
Approved Operations : Transport


ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 44
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4094 times:

Quoting AS739X (Reply 7):
A330: read the article. It say you will NOT see QX flying LAX-PVR.

Uh, no kidding.  Yeah sure

Quoting AS739X (Reply 22):
It ca't be N290RB. Thats is a Bizjet registered to Wells Fargo.

N290RB
Aircraft Serial Number : 10029
Aircraft Manufacturer : BOMBARDIER INC
Model : CL-600-2C10

I hate to break it to you, but that's a CRJ-700. And Wells Fargo is among the world's largest aircraft lessors and trustees.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6124 posts, RR: 23
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4046 times:

BOMBARDIER INC
Model Name : CL-600-2C10
Aircraft Type : Fixed Wing Multi-engine
Engine Type : Turbojet
Aircraft Category : Land
Number of Engines : 2
Number of Seats : 22
Max. Gross Weight : 20,000 lbs or over
Aircraft Code : 1390015



If proved wrong this is the plane, I bow to your superior knowledge.

ASLAX

[Edited 2005-11-19 00:16:15]


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
25 Post contains links and images A330323X : Dude, a CL-600-2C10 is a CRJ-700. I don't know where you got the 22-seat number, but it's wrong. I know, how about you take a look at the registration
26 AS739X : Well in your demeaning way I except that I was wrong 330. Please see my IM. We'll leave it at that. Just to clairfy guys. There are no restriction on
27 Copaair737 : It would be really cool to see QX in MOD. I think that the service could be supported, as LAX service has always seemed to be a demand there, at least
28 AS739X : Copa: Nice to see you here man. I think MOD-LAX is not a matter of if, but when! Now the service being terminated to PIH, hhmmm! Maybe an available pl
29 Cschleic : Having once spent 4+ hours in a QX CRJ-700, an additional lav is needed. Even a two hour flight needs more. Bigger ones would be good, too, but that's
30 Post contains images Stirling : I'd love to see PDX as well, but for now, will take it one step at a time. Los Angeles is the priority right now. Personal Observation: In my profess
31 AS739X : Stirling: Anything but my man! ASLAX
32 Cessna172RG : Yeah, the beef on the new QX CRJ-700 is that the aft cargo wall was moved further aft, allowing room for the extra lavs, galleys, while maintaining th
33 Suv : Huh? I don't know of any QX flight that is 4+ hours. Clarify the rest please...it makes no sense. Suv
34 TWAAF9 : The longest QX-operated CRJ-700 flight is DAY-DEN. Most days it comes in right about three hours.
35 Cschleic : The long CRJ flights were PDX-SFO-Tucson, one-stop in SFO. But with weather delays, they tried quick turns in SFO so nobody got off for a break (about
36 AS739X : Last I check the longest CR7 flight was SAT-SFO. If someone can check the numbers since I am not at work yet. Skywest has run SAT/AUS-SFO, both at the
37 TIMEAIR : Ran the Q400 last year and got slaughtered!... Ya, and leave half of the passengers baggage behind...you average 3 pces for every pax loaded ex YKA d
38 MD90fan : Also YYZ-IAH is up there and the DFW-BUF/SYR
39 AS739X : United Express SAT-SFO Flt: 6379 3 hrs. 49 min. CR7 That's damn close to 4 hours given they can get a hold inbound to SFO at the time frequently. ASLA
40 Copaair737 : Stirling: I left Modesto in around 2003 to go out and travel after school was over. I went down to Central and South America (mostly Colombia), and th
41 QXFLYINGCOUG : It is WAY too expensive to fly out of PUW when you are a college student! I only live three hours away in Wenatchee (EAT) and I doubt we'll be getting
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