Pylotguy1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 32 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1204 times:
As someone who grew up during the age of deregulation, I was just wondering what the seat pitch used to be on transatlantic routes served by narrowbody planes, like the 707, during the early jet age. In particular, how much room there was in Coach. I KNOW it had to be better than what we have now!
Kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 5750 posts, RR: 17 Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1157 times:
Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 1): seat pitch is entirely up to the airline and really has nothing to do with the type of airplane.
I think the original poster is talking about seat pitch back in the days of the 707 rather than on that specific a/c type - I would be interested to hear from anyone who can answer it - although from a vague memory of NZ's DC-8s the leg room may have been better than today - but the seats themselves certainly weren't .
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
A360 From Portugal, joined Jun 2005, 434 posts, RR: 11 Reply 3, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1062 times:
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 2): although from a vague memory of NZ's DC-8s the leg room may have been better than today - but the seats themselves certainly weren't .
How dare you say that something from the "good old days"(the seats) is worst than today's seats?!
Jaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1055 times:
Back then Economy Class seat pitch ranged between 34 - 36" depending on the airline. And seats reclined further.
First Class, however, was no more than about 42" of pitch. Of course, the seats were wider. And they fed you non-stop, because the food was basically the entertainment.
The difference between Economy and First was only about 40-60% of the Y Class fare, quite different from what it is today.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 8133 posts, RR: 51 Reply 5, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1035 times:
I can remember flying aboard military charter NW & TWA B-707-320 and DL & UA DC-8-61 going to and from Vietnam. They were all one class with a 32" seat pitch and packed full of troops.
B2707SST From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 1320 posts, RR: 65 Reply 7, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1014 times:
I have some Boeing documents from the mid-1960s that show 34" as the standard seat pitch and first class at 40-50". Seat width on the 707 was actually narrower than on today's 737s despite their common cross-section, as that Boeing has narrowed the cabin sidewalls over time.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 8133 posts, RR: 51 Reply 8, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 993 times:
Quoting B2707SST (Reply 7): Seat width on the 707 was actually narrower than on today's 737s despite their common cross-section, as that Boeing has narrowed the cabin sidewalls over time.
--B2707SST
I believe that todays B-737NGs are better insolated against noise and cold than the B-707 was. Thus the thicker interior cabin walls have reduced the interior crossection by about 2" (48-50mm).
After flying on a B-707 or DC-8 for 8+ hours, the AC systems began to not be able to keep the extreme cold from high altitude flying out. But, I never remember the inside cabin temp ever going below about 60 degrees F (15.6 degrees C).
B2707SST From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 1320 posts, RR: 65 Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 940 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8): Thus the thicker interior cabin walls have reduced the interior crossection by about 2" (48-50mm).
Actually, now that I look at Boeing's cross-sections, there is virtually no difference in interior width (0.1 inches), although the various 707 and 737 models have different seat/aisle width combinations.
Trex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 3077 posts, RR: 19 Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 913 times:
the pitch on PA, BA, TW, CI, SQ and CX 707s in Y were 34in, and I personally measured each of them in my youth!! I think British Airtours (a BA charter subsidiary) had slightly less pitch but I had lost my trusty little tape measure by then!)
Antares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 44 Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 736 times:
In the 'early' days the QF 707-138 hot rods had around 36 inches pitch in Y and around 38 inches in first. As already pointed out, the fare differential was comparatively minor, more like premium economy in today's market where it exists.
The fare difference between Australia and New Zealand and Fiji was only around ten to fifteen Australian pounds, you went from a full economy far of around 80 pounds to just under 100 pounds.
Major fare discounting did not occur until 1969 about the time that travel agents in Australia were being prosecuted for selling foreign airline fares for less than the fixed fare available on Qantas.
The company I was involved in did a bit of primitive market research on behalf of the non-Australian carriers in support of the argument that the economic benefit of lower fares or rather more competition was good for all parties, including consumers and the national economy. Yet it was a long time before anyone seriously thought about tourism, it was more an issue about the benefits of young Australians being able to afford to travel before settling down, the great Earls Court tradition, double decker buses across India (the overland route) and all that. Sigh!
The fundamental issues are the same as they are today, and the quality of debate has not advanced all that far either.
But back to seat pitch. It was more generous than today in economy and the quality of in flight service irrespective of the carriers I flew on was immensely superior to today's standards, even among the best of carriers.
This is a rather poignant topic for me, as one of the great travellers of the time was Peter Brown of Brown Brothers, Australian winemakers in Rutherglen, Victoria, whose wanderings with his close friends taught him a great deal about the wines of Europe.
I'm about to be driven down to the verdant fields of the Australian domain he
greatly enhanced with his knowledge and passion for his memorial service.
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