GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12970 posts, RR: 79 Reply 4, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 13705 times:
Since the later A340's were intended to keep the line going for a few years longer, it's already succeeded in that.
Many 'experts' on here were sure VS would go 777 last time, well they didn't for whatever reason.
It will have, in it's various versions, have soon been in production for 15 years, not bad for such an obsolete, useless aircraft.
CHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 63 Reply 5, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 13620 times:
Anyway - back on topic.
I think once EH and EK's A340s are delivered that will be that - the A350 is the big seller now and IIRC they share a production line. It wont cost them anything to keep the specialist tooling etc - they may have some follow-ons from existing A340 operators but that will be that i think.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 10, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 13396 times:
There will be future orders for the A346, as its likely that airlines such as LH and IB will continue to add to their A346 fleets in the future for expansion and/or to replace A343s, but at the moment there does not seem to be a whole lot of interest in the A346 - there are several things to consider: the 773ER is hot at the moment and seems to be the aircraft of choice in the category, Airbus' own A359 may be directly and indirectly be affecting potential A346 sales, the 747-8 may have some impact on the A346's future, etc. There is a lot going on this segment.
EK has the A346 on order, although there has been so much speculation if EK will ever really get the aircraft - there were rumors about swapping A346 orders for A359 orders, rumors that EK would take additonal A380s in lieu of the the A346s, etc. If EK does order another 20+ 773ERs at the Dubai show, how will that impact the EK A346 order? Lots of quesitons.
CX is looking to expand and renew its longhaul fleet - and CX leases three A346s for use on its JFK-HKG route, and CX could order more of the type....but CX seems committed to the 747 family at the moment and its still unclear if CX will go with the 773ER or make a real committment to the A346 for longhaul. Something is up.
LH, VS, SA and other current operators are likely to top off their A346 fleets, but it just may be that Airbus curtailed future interest in all versions of the A330 and A340 families by lauching the A350 earlier than ever expected to compete with the 787 - a very interesting situation indeed and certainly one to watch.
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 28630 posts, RR: 84 Reply 11, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 13395 times:
I don't see why Airbus can't keep selling A346HGWs to existing A330/A340 operators.
I do think the A345's days are done, as the 772LR seems to be posting better performance and efficiency numbers, but as everyone likes to say, ULR is a "niche" market (though Boeing thinks they can sell two hundred 772LRs and 772Fs over the program life).
The A350 will mostly negate the need for the A342 and A343 where ETOPS is not an issue (I imagine some routings might require/advise four engines), but that's not a bad thing, per se, since Airbus continues to offer a viable alternative for those operators who wish to replace older hulls.
Luisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 13261 times:
Quoting Luisca (Reply 2): In fact CX might be dumping theirs in favor of the 773ER.
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 21): Because what you say is untrue. If you can back up all that crap about CX dumping theirs in favour of 777s then please share. If not - then...well... you know what you can do.
Look at the use of word, I said MIGHT BE DUMPING. There have been several rumors that CX is leaning towards ordering the 773ER, Even in this forum if you just do a search. When the order finally comes then I will be able to give you something to back up my claim. Until then I will continue to say that it is a possibility.
Quoting EI321 (Reply 18): Is fuel burn the only way to judge a planes profitability????
This is precisely my point. Airlines analyze all aspects when deciding what to order. Fuel burn is better on the 777 NG's, but the cost of adding a new type, engine manufacturer, maintenance training, spare parts, etc sometimes outweigh the benefits of less fuel burn. LH, IB, VS all decided that adding a different fleet type even though that aircraft was more efficient in fuel burn and payload would hurt them more than it would help them.
And In my first post I said, most likely all new A345 and A346 orders will be add ons.
N79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 13202 times:
I think the 346's prospects will turn on the long-term price of oil. If the expectation is a continous rise, then the 346 will suffer. However if prices stabilize or even drop then the 346s prospects will improve.
One advantage of the 346 is the lower up-front capital costs. High oil prices eat into and have now overcome that advantage.
All I did was ask a simple question...I didn't anticipate an A vs. B battle.
As my question/interest was addressed in a timely fashion...I'm happy....
You don't like it...don't read it...but be careful with your finger-pointing
I never said it was your fault, and your question was certainly valid. Nonetheless, the direction the thread took was sadly predictable. I read it because, optimist that I am, I had hopes that (for once) this wouldn't happen! Still, whenever the A340 is involved, some a.netters just can't resist.
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
Dalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12921 times:
Geoffrey Thomas has reported from HKG on the "orders" forum that CX are believed to have chosen the 773ER over the 346HGW. With a 50+ 777 order coming up for EK at the DXB airshow, and both QF/SQ highly tipped to order 777s instead of A340s, surely the future is not very rosy for the A345/6.
It has been decimated this year by the 772LR/772F/773ER. You can't argue any other way.
Orders from smaller carriers(eg PR) and follow-ons from VS/LH etc look the best chance for future orders.
If, as predicted by some, EK orders 777s and cancels the 346 order and then SQ orders 772LRs to replace the 345s, then major airlines are rejecting the 345/6 big time.
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10066 posts, RR: 11 Reply 20, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12894 times:
Quoting Luisca (Reply 2): Other than follow on orders I woudl say the A340 is pretty much dead. The 773ER and 772LR are far superior to the A346 and A345 in all aspects. No new airline will probably be ordering them. In fact CX might be dumping theirs in favor of the 773ER.
Oh, the 777 worshippers having a run again.
But master Boeing himself tells you its going to make better aircraft soon, with lower costs, the 747-8I and the 787 will kick the 777 left and right, and I wouldn´t be surprised if the 777 production rate would drop to be less than 50% of todays output in 5 or 6 years when fleets are packed with them and the focus will change on to replacing 744s and early 777s.
As a passenger I say from my own experience I prefer the smooth A346 over the 773 anytime. Although I won´t argue its been very quiet around it businesswise, sad enough. The 777 proves to be better despite its basically a ridiculously expensive aircraft at base price. To say its "far superior" is false, it just suits the high fuel prices better.
EI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12872 times:
Quoting N79969 (Reply 30): I think the 346's prospects will turn on the long-term price of oil. If the expectation is a continous rise, then the 346 will suffer. However if prices stabilize or even drop then the 346s prospects will improve.
One advantage of the 346 is the lower up-front capital costs. High oil prices eat into and have now overcome that advantage.
A point which most people in this thread have overlooked. Since the price of oil went up, proportionally orders for 340s have shrunk.
Rizzibird From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 232 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12830 times:
It's funny to hear some of our American friends claiming the A346 to be an unefficient gas-guzzler. Just past week I've read a newspaper article in which LH names the A346 as its most fuel-efficient aircraft, burning just 3,3 liters of fuel per passenger per 100 kilometers. Does anyone have numbers for the B773ER? Just wondering.
Glom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2804 posts, RR: 10 Reply 23, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12792 times:
wbp has provided the data many times. The 777LRs fly further, faster, with more payload, on less fuel. The A340NG has the advantage of lower purchase price, no ETOPS restrictions (for now) and, according to SA, more compatibility with hot and high airfields.
Quoting Rizzibird (Reply 39): I've read a newspaper article in which LH names the A346 as its most fuel-efficient aircraft,
Yes, and before FR got the 738, the 732 was its most efficient aircraft. What do you hope to prove?
Rizzibird From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 232 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (8 years 1 month 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12754 times:
Quoting Glom (Reply 40): , and before FR got the 738, the 732 was its most efficient aircraft. What do you hope to prove?
Sorry to say it this way, but this statement is just rediculous! The 732 and the 732 are something like 20 years apart, whereas the A346 and LH's other aircraft are just a few years apart. LH has a fairly modern fleet and the A346 is the most fuel-efficient aircraft within this fleet. So the A346 can't be as bad as many people on this board make it look. I don't say that it is more fuel efficient than the B773ER, but I have not found one single proof that it is the other way around either.
25 EI321: I think the A380 is 3 litres per 100km, cant the find 777 data though.
26 Dalecary: There have been numerous reports to the contrary. Boeing are reportedly looking at increasing 777 production rates to around 7/month from 2007 to mee
27 Glom: It's not that bad, no. But it is a noticeable disadvantage compared to the 77W. The point is that LH saying it is their most efficient aircraft doesn
28 F4N: NA: In today's high fuel price environment, few things would define "far superior" more than that. regards, F4N
29 Soylentgreen: Way to go Luisca! In your face and sassy. I love it! And I agree with your assessment-the B777 is superior to the A340. Why? Because it is has techno
30 USADreamliner: Can you repeat the question please? Let's focus on the topic please... I heard AR order the aircraft like 6 years ago, but I'm not sure about the situ
31 Trex8: RR may eventually incorporate some Trent1000/1700 tech into the 500, in which case you may suddenly find the A345/6 fuel burn sufficiently improved to
32 Zeke: His data also showed that for over a 7500nm flight a A346 would take 2.5 t less payload than a 744, with burning 36t less fuel than a 744. He does so
33 Luisca: Why do you compare the A346 to the 744? Compare it to the 773ER. Do a fair comparison, What you are doing is like triying to compare the 738 with a A
34 Zeke: I didnt run the flight plans, wbp did, he didnt provide raw data for the 77W only for the 744 and 346. The updated Trent 500 will cost Airbus very li
35 Boeing767-300: Why do you Europeans have to resort to the usual "Americans Bashing Airbus". Can't you accept the fact that although 777 is a couple of years newer t
36 TinkerBelle: Source please... The article out there says 26 orders and neither Boeing nor EK can confirm that so it's not even a done deal. Well, that's becoz the
37 Dalecary: Seattle Times for 26 773ER and Gulf News for at least 20 772LR. Today's issues.
38 RayChuang: I think future orders for the A340-600--which will all be HGW versions from now on--will most likely be to airlines that already fly the A346: LH, VS,
39 Zeke: To back Dale up, EK pilots I have spoken to have indicated similar numbers to me are being talked about within the company. Had a thread on it last w
40 JetMaster: Yeah, LH will soon go bankrupt... Have you checked their financial results lately? Tell that to the A340 airlines which are highly profitable...but d
41 RedChili: The A340 will never have any ETOPS restrictions... It has four engines.
42 BuckFifty: I can tell you that is not true at all. In fact, at this point, the RFP is still neck and neck between the two. The decision will come soon, however,
43 BeechNut: Any time anyone on this juvenile forum posts "is the B7X7-YYY obsolete" or is the "A3XX-YYY finished", it turns into an A vs B pi$$ing match. It's so
44 RJ111: I reckon of the two CX will order the A346, when you take into account it uses RR's and doesn't need ETOPS restrictions. People talk about the 777's a
45 Sebolino: You should be consultant for airlines. They really need you. LOL. You are pathetic , boy.
46 OldAeroGuy: No, the main advantage the 773ER has over the A346 is a lower OEW. This contributes to about 5.5% better fuel burn. Engine TSFC is about 1.5% better
47 N328KF: No, but it has LROPS restrictions, and twins and quads are both subject to the same rules under LROPS.
48 Zeke: Umm NO right back at you ! As I have given you examples before .. 320 higher OEW than 734, lower burn 744 higher OEW than 744D, lower burn 738 with w
49 Coa747: The A340-500 seems to be the more appropriate target for this discussion. With Air Canada being the first customer to announce a switch from the A340-
50 TP777: I think that TP in a long future could introduce some bigger planes on their fleet, in spite I would love to see a T7 on TP colours is more likely to
51 FlyingHippo: Let's try to stay on the topic people... I don't see any NEW customers ordering the A346, follow on orders, I think there will be enough... The only n
52 Bmacleod: AC finally realized this when they saw the fuel-burn ratio between the 777 and 340 and cancelled their A346 and remaining A345 orders. So is Boeing s