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No 787s , Neither A350s For Emirates , Only 777s?  
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Posted (9 years 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9947 times:

Is the dream for the 787 lovers and A350 lovers to see one of these types (or both of them) in Emirates livery reaching an end ?
Air&Cosmos has written this week , Emirates is not enthousiastic for both these planes as both are too small , and perhaps they will purchase 50 777s instead placing a new generation twin wide body order.
Perhaps this weekly publication knows something we don't , since in their website www.aerospacemedia.com they said EK will place a 6 milliards $ order for 777s , no later that tomorrow (Nov 20th).
In this case where Airbus will find the 50 A350 frames they need to reach the promised 200 units before year end ? Great question............

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9914 times:

Well, considering one isn't going to be available in numbers in the size they want until 2011 (789) and the other isn't even EIS until 2010, they don't have to decide by this week, despite what some are dreaming.

But if they want 777s, they need to buy them ASAP.

I've never quite seen the urgency for a carrier with such clout who doesn't want the 788, the only one they need to sign up for right away or risk losing out.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMarshalN From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9872 times:

I thought it's been mentioned time and again that they think the 787 is too small, and they want a bigger variant. That's probably why they feel no urgency and don't feel they're "losing out".

User currently offlineKhenleyDIA From Sweden, joined Feb 2005, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9784 times:

The way that Emirates is ordering planes, I wouldn't be too surprised to eventually see them order both the 787 and A350. I know that one of the a.netters suggested (not sure if it was a guess or something heard) that Emirates could become a leasing agency in the future. At the rate this rate, it kind of makes sense, using my limited knowledge of Emirates and leasing agencies.

KhenleyDIA



Why sit at home and do nothing when you can travel the world.
User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9563 times:

Back in 2003, Emirates Management was telling their pilots that eventually they would ike to fly "2" aircraft, the A380 & the 777. If Emriates ignores both the 787 & the A350, wondering if Emirates will follow through with that plan,, hmmmm?  Smile


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User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9506 times:

Quoting KhenleyDIA (Reply 3):
I know that one of the a.netters suggested (not sure if it was a guess or something heard) that Emirates could become a leasing agency in the future

That was me. Comes from no inside knowledge. Just based on their capital abilities, their enthusiasm for ordering the hottest planes in large numbers, and that they already lease some jets and could easily lease more at a profit.

But again, with no model of the size they want (359, 789/10) available until later 2010 at the earliest, there is not urgency to order these planes 5 years in advance, considering that both companies are talking about increasing production rates to meet demand.

Spend the down payment money on 773ERs and A389s right now, do the other orders in a year or 2.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9430 times:

It would be a surprise if there were no order from EK for either the A350 or B787. I suspect that at some point the A359 has got to be favored, although, as Ikramerica, they can take their time. If the rumored 777 order goes through, they will have committed a considerable amount of capital (along with the massive pending A380 order) to new purchases.

Speaking of the A380, way back this summer there was a long thread about a rumored A380 follow-on order by EK to be announced at Paris. That didn't happen, but does anyone have any inisights if they will go for the A389? Isn't that the plane they really want?



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9405 times:

Separate, but related issue, is QR going to confirm all 60 A350's? They have a news conference on Tuesday. We may finally find out what "up to 60" A350's and "more than 20" 777's mean!


"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineBoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9296 times:

According to the Wall Street Journal

Quote:
Emirates is expected to announce an order for as many as 42 Boeing 777s. The purchase would be divided among three of the newest models of the plane, all of which are designed to travel long distances. Two people familiar with the airline's planning say that Emirates plans to order about 24 777-300ER jetliners, eight 777 freighters and another 10 777-200LR "Worldliners."

In addition, the airline also has been widely expected to announce an order for as many as 50 Airbus A350s.


User currently offlineJAM747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 550 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8773 times:

Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
Emirates is not enthousiastic for both these planes as both are too small

If the 787 and the A350 are too small and they seem to like the 777, could the 747-800 be a possibility? The 747-800 and 777 will have similar cockpits so if they got 747-800s the pilot transition might not be too difficult between the two.


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8619 times:

If they don't order I would suggest the problem is that A359 range is not sufficient and the 787-9 doesn't have enough capacity in an eight abreast format. What they probably want to see is the A359 HGW variant some have referred to as the A359-1000 and the 787-10X.


ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineDABTH From Germany, joined Aug 2005, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8616 times:

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 9):
If the 787 and the A350 are too small and they seem to like the 777, could the 747-800 be a possibility? The 747-800 and 777 will have similar cockpits so if they got 747-800s the pilot transition might not be too difficult between the two.

I don`t see any 748s in their fleet in the future. When they concentrate on two airplanes these will definitely be the A380 and 773ER. Maybe they will also add some A350s which fly smaller routes.

I just can`t see them flying DXB-HAM daily with a 773ER when they also fly to TXL, FRA, MUC and DUS. They need a smaller plane for this.

Question is what will happen to their mass of relatively new A330s and 772s?

Regards


User currently offlineBG777300ER From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2005, 269 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8367 times:

If all these order predictions are true, Emirates will be a MASSIVE X 20 airline in a couple of years (meaning a lot of aircraft in their fleet). It will no doubt be the biggest airline in the world....just a thought.


Koi mi sra v gashtite?
User currently offlineNZPM From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7730 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 7):
We may finally find out what "up to 60" A350's and "more than 20" 777's mean!

Sorry to nit-pick, but I believe the actual quote was "at least 20", not "more than 20" 777's.


User currently offlinePanAm_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4211 posts, RR: 89
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7633 times:
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Quoting FCKC (Thread starter):
Perhaps this weekly publication knows something we don't , since in their website www.aerospacemedia.com they said EK will place a 6 milliards $ order for 777s , no later that tomorrow (Nov 20th).
In this case where Airbus will find the 50 A350 frames they need to reach the promised 200 units before year end ? Great question............

The 777 order seems to be getting the airplay though EK are quite equitable when placing their orders. They have a media conference also on Monday 21st and as the WSJ reports it is expected that EK will order the A350. IMO we'll see both Airbus and Boeing get substantial orders and we've not long to wait

Regards, PanAm_DC10



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineBoeingBus From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7363 times:

For what it's worth... from the press...

http://www.thebusinessonline.com/Sto...B76EF0-7991-4389-B72E-D07EB5AA1CEE

"Airbus has been chasing a bumper order from the same Middle Eastern airline for its proposed mid-sized jet, the A350, but sources say this is unlikely to be announced at the show. The airline is instead considering a 290 to 300-seater version of the new Boeing Dreamliner, or 787."

Huge blow to Airbus if this is lost...



Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 859 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7258 times:

I think EK is right about these aircraft.

With high - and expected higher - fuel price, you need to carry a lot of business travellers on your long haul network (to pay all the extra fuel you need to carry all along- even considering these aircraft are more fuel efficient). Most of Business travellers are mostly between big markets where you can use higher capacity aircraft to carry the economy class as well.



Never trust the obvious
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7195 times:

Quoting Aither (Reply 16):
With high - and expected higher - fuel price, you need to carry a lot of business travellers on your long haul network (to pay all the extra fuel you need to carry all along- even considering these aircraft are more fuel efficient).

With higher fuel prices you need to attract a higher mix of business passengers, but you can also expect a smaller number of passengers overall if ticket prices rise.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineAither From South Korea, joined Oct 2004, 859 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7094 times:

Yes a bit but not that much on the long haul market. Pax prefer the lowest price but even if the lowest price is 15% higher most would go on with their travel plan. You don't have alternative transports.


Never trust the obvious
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7023 times:

Quoting NZPM (Reply 13):
ut I believe the actual quote was "at least 20", not "more than 20" 777's.

You are not nitpicking, you are correct.  thumbsup  I, for one, can't wait to see what "at least 20" 777s means.  bouncy 



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7002 times:

The Wall Street Journal said the order is for 24×777-300ER, 10×777-200LR, and 8×777 Freighter.


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6902 times:

Quoting N328KF (Reply 20):
The Wall Street Journal said the order is for 24×777-300ER, 10×777-200LR, and 8×777 Freighter

For QR?



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6876 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 21):
For QR?

The article title is in reference to EK, so I am referring to EK.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6457 times:

I would LOVE to see the look on Leahy's face if EK orders a crap load of 777s and NO A350s at Dubai...

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6441 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 6):
Speaking of the A380, way back this summer there was a long thread about a rumored A380 follow-on order by EK to be announced at Paris. That didn't happen, but does anyone have any inisights if they will go for the A389? Isn't that the plane they really want?

I am wondering that too. Seems that the urgency is in the 777s, as they are selling like hotcakes and available pre-2010, and the 389, since the A380 output will remain limited and EK wants them ASAP. Since FEDEX also wants them ASAP, would make more sense to put money down on 389s than on 350s or 787s this year.

just my uninformed outsider 2 cents.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
25 Manni : Interesting question Lumberton. Is the A389 already on offer to airlines? If not, when is the A389 expected to be launched?
26 777ER : Thats a good point you raised there
27 Ikramerica : I don't think it is officially launched, but if EK were to order 20, I think it would be launched. I believe there is an authority to offer, however,
28 BoeingBus : Link please... Please, with all respect, I think you are wrong.
29 Manni : Thanks Ikramerica. So, Emirates does not have to wait for that and can order them at any time? Perhaps they're waiting to see how their 388's perform
30 Post contains links Ikramerica : Go to the Boeing website. Look at the technical specs for each 787 model. The 788 has a milestone calendar re: launch, authority to offer, first fligh
31 Post contains links BoeingBus : Again, all speculation, which in my opinion is way off. The 789 was and continues to be offered, it is just going to be in service in 2010... we may n
32 Ikramerica : Please show me a link to any article or press release that says that there was an authority to offer the 787-9. Not that the family was launched and t
33 Post contains links BoeingBus : here you go... 789 is a milestone... Major program milestones Firm configuration completed – September 2005 Major assembly begins – 2006 First fli
34 Atmx2000 : I don't know if there was a separate authority to offer for each 787 family member. I assumed that in late 2003 when Boeing was authorized by its boa
35 Ikramerica : sorry, but that is the main program page, not the individual model page. that is exactly what I am saying. it doesn't list the authority to offer any
36 N328KF : Why are you two bickering over this? You are trying to argue over data from the least up-to-date portion of Boeing's website.
37 Post contains images Atmx2000 : Because the purpose of boards like A.net is to bicker over minutiae so that one may claim the I Was Right Trophy, do a little victory dance, and rub
38 Ikramerica : Exactly! Plus, I was bored and wanted to see if he could produce any information to back up his argument. So far he hasn't. So fun was had by me... F
39 Atmx2000 : I don't think you can say if the interest is high or not if Boeing doesn't put down an EIS date for it, and one that is close. Moreover, the time bet
40 Ikramerica : Boeing has always stated late 2010 for the 787-9. Not sure where you got the 2012 date from. Considering there are some carriers taking first deliver
41 Atmx2000 : No, they were considering a later EIS, and they only firmed plans for 2010 around the time of the Paris Air show when they were trying to win the QR
42 WhiteHatter : Emirates Leasing was being discussed here before you even joined the site. Do not attribute yourself with the ideas or information of other people. Y
43 Zvezda : There was an ATO the B747Adv before Cargolux ordered. The last time Boeing updated the B787 techical specs webpages, the Wright brothers hadn't flown
44 USAF336TFS : Whoa!!! 42 Triple 7s... I hope I'll see some of them at least, flying over my house in Long Island, New York on their way to JFK. Anyone venturing a g
45 Post contains links Keesje : Forbes reports that they will order 50 A350´s.. http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/afx/2005/11/20/afx2347112.html
46 Lumberton : The press seems to be all over the place on this. Keesje, the article you cite, which was very recently released I admit, speaks of the announcement f
47 Leelaw : from WSJ 11/20/05: "...Emirates also said it hasn't yet chosen between competing smaller models from Boeing and rival Airbus. Emirates has been lookin
48 PanAm_DC10 : Is it actually Mr Clarks decision to make? Regarding the 787 and A350, we haven't decided yet which way we'll go" Emirates Chairman Sheik Ahmed bin S
49 Dalecary : Maybe they'll go both, with a 359/789HGW combo and use the 359s on denser routes and the significantly longer-legged 789-HGW on longer-thinner routes
50 PanAm_DC10 : That well maybe the case Dale but they've usually been rather even handed when ordering from both OEM's. Given their comments it does seem to validat
51 N79969 : I agree with PanAmDC10 largely. If Boeing somehow manages to sell them 787 on top of all the 777, it would be a huge coup. Even if that does not occur
52 Ikramerica : Here's another thought. EK talked of an LCC config on some of the A380s. Might they then do the QF+Jetstar idea that has been floated around, getting
53 Stitch : I would think if the A359 can carry more folks then a B789/780, then EK would want to use it for the LCC fleet instead, to pack more folks in. And evi
54 DAYflyer : Read the following comment and you will understand why. The competition for this order is a knock down, drag out fight. Sheikh Ahmed said his fast-gro
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