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NW To Compete With Frontier On IND-CUN  
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4564 posts, RR: 18
Posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4892 times:

Frontier in the past couple of days has started selling IND-CUN tickets. Its a 3x weekly service that will for a month or two butt heads with NW on the saturday service. It is nice that NW has this route but I'm not sure this will be worth keeping for them. The Frontier equipment is much nicer on that route. 18" seats with a 33" pitch and ptv's is hard to compete with. Do you suspect NW will dump that route or try and price Frontier out?


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4866 times:

Quoting Indy (Thread starter):
Frontier in the past couple of days has started selling IND-CUN tickets.

I think is great, but I really wonder about the wisdom of starting a new route to CUN right now. Good luck!


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4564 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4855 times:

Supposedly the demand is there. I believe the news here had stated that some 800 people a week fly to Cancun from Indianapolis. My only concern is there being two saturday flights.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4841 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 1):
CUN right now.

Indy: The demand *was* there, but is it *still* there after the hurricane? I think that's what SFOMEX was hinting to.


User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4832 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 2):
Supposedly the demand is there.

I was talking about hurricane Wilma. CUN is being rebuildt right now and it seems it will take another two months to get it on track.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4564 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4829 times:

Thats fine SFO. The NW route doesn't start back up until Jan and the Frontier route doesn't start until March.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4816 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 5):
The NW route doesn't start back up until Jan and the Frontier route doesn't start until March.

That makes sense. Thanks Indy.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4564 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4808 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 6):
That makes sense. Thanks Indy.

As long as NW doesn't do something crazy like apply to the DOT to make the service 3x or 5x weekly or worse daily. I can't wait to see the loads on the saturday service for these two airlines come March when they both are running it.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25257 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4789 times:
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Quoting Indy (Reply 7):
As long as NW doesn't do something crazy like apply to the DOT to make the service 3x or 5x weekly or worse daily.

You never know. When Frontier started SLC/CUN as Saturday only, Delta - having ignored Cancun from Salt Lake City - immediately went for daily service.

As to the state of Cancun, they expect to have 85% of the hotel rooms open by December 15.

Frontier is presently running a limited schedule, but ten days ago they said that all flights until early December were "packed".

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32782 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4717 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 7):
As long as NW doesn't do something crazy like apply to the DOT to make the service 3x or 5x weekly or worse daily.

Northwest can fly 7x daily IND-CUN if they want to. They don't need to apply for anything, they have the authority to.

Quote:
I can't wait to see the loads on the saturday service for these two airlines come March when they both are running it.

The Saturday loads will probably be excellent. Saturday is the busiest travel day to and from Cancun, especially with many tourists going on Saturday-to-Saturday packages.



a.
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4564 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4713 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Northwest can fly 7x daily IND-CUN if they want to. They don't need to apply for anything, they have the authority to.

So even though NW applied for saturday only service to CUN they can still run as often as they want? If I remember correctly NW asked specifically for that day unlike the F9 application which asked for the 3x weekly with the option of adding more if the market demanded it.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32782 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4674 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 10):
So even though NW applied for saturday only service to CUN they can still run as often as they want? If I remember correctly NW asked specifically for that day unlike the F9 application which asked for the 3x weekly with the option of adding more if the market demanded it.

Yes. There are no frequency nor aircraft size restrictions on US-Mexico routes. Airlines can adjust capacity and frequency as much as they want.



a.
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4564 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4669 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
Yes. There are no frequency nor aircraft size restrictions on US-Mexico routes. Airlines can adjust capacity and frequency as much as they want.

Do they specify things like saturday service in order to improve their chances of having the application approved?



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32782 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 3 days ago) and read 4661 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 12):

Do they specify things like saturday service in order to improve their chances of having the application approved?

The only time airlines need to worry about not getting approved is one there are competing applications for more than the number of available frequency positions. Otherwise, all US-Mexico route authorites are approved regardless, assuming the airline is authorized to fly internationally, is a scheduled airline, good safety record, etc, etc.



a.
User currently offlineFlyGuyClt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4610 times:

-Remember NWA is still for formidable competitor.
-When Frontier started MSP to LAX service NWA matched and even started DEN to LAX. The verdict. Frontier is out of the MSP to LAX nonstop market and so is NWA on the DEN to LAX market.
-While the Frontier equipment is more customer friendly. The power of the FF programs play a huge role.
-NWA still is a safe reliable way to travel. They are currently running over a 99% completion factor for November.

Safe Flying  

[Edited 2005-11-21 13:03:38]

[Edited 2005-11-21 13:06:27]


Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4564 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4495 times:

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 14):
They are currently running over a 99% completion factor for November.

Can't argue that number  Smile



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25257 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4428 times:
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Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 14):
NWA still is a safe reliable way to travel.

Are you suggesting that Frontier is not safe?

And, according to Northwest, their latest completion factor was 91.6% - about the same as Frontier:

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/050901/nwac8-k.html

Frontier, of course, was tops in on time performance.

http://www.frontierairlines.com/news...cle=/general/2005/pr_11032005.news

cheers

mariner

[Edited 2005-11-21 21:28:52]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineStlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9367 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4406 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 16):
Are you suggesting that Frontier is not safe?

don't see where you would get that from.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
The Saturday loads will probably be excellent. Saturday is the busiest travel day to and from Cancun, especially with many tourists going on Saturday-to-Saturday packages.

second that. I imagine most, if not all of the Saturday flights from February through April will be sold out. Northwest, I would even say, could put a second run on Sundays and that flight would be sold out. I know a lot of the Big Ten Schools and the other colleges in the area, going beyond the spring break activities, have been using the history of the area, i.e. the ruins, etc. as a field study program which typically involves a class meeting 5 or 6 times during the semester and then the week, 10-day, or two week travel study excursion.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25257 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4398 times:
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Quoting Stlgph (Reply 17):
don't see where you would get that from.

In comparing NWA to Frontier, he said:

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 14):
NWA still is a safe reliable way to travel.

The implication being that NWA is "safer".

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineWillbdsp From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4310 times:

With the flights coming from CUN, do they have to go to the International Arrivals building, which isn't connected to the main terminal?

User currently offlineStlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9367 posts, RR: 26
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4292 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):

The implication being that NWA is "safer".

not at all. this has nothing to do with Frontier, but NWA itself.

the implication being despite all the bad press about cut wages, mechanics strikes, flat tires, etc., that NWA is still a safe way to travel.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25257 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4274 times:
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Quoting Stlgph (Reply 20):
not at all. this has nothing to do with Frontier, but NWA itself.

I'll take your word for it. However, the thread is about the competition between the two:

NW To Compete With Frontier On IND-CUN

And the post in question - #14 - is all about comparisons between the two airlines.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineStlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9367 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4266 times:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 21):
And the post in question - #14 - is all about comparisons between the two airlines.

it reads

"NWA is still a safe reliable way to travel. They are currently running over a 99% completion factor for November."

this has nothing to do with compromising the safety of one airline over another.

nothing.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25257 posts, RR: 85
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4257 times:
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Ah, the joy of selectivity: His point #1:

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 14):
-Remember NWA is still for formidable competitor.

His point #2:

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 14):
-When Frontier started MSP to LAX service NWA matched and even started DEN to LAX. The verdict. Frontier is out of the MSP to LAX nonstop market and so is NWA on the DEN to LAX market.

His point #3:

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 14):
-While the Frontier equipment is more customer friendly. The power of the FF programs play a huge role.

These are all comparatives. But - apparently - his point #4 is not a comparative.

Okay, I won't argue. Whatever you say. I guess they teach English differently in schools these days.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4247 times:

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 14):
The power of the FF programs play a huge role

Yes, on high yield markets like IND-CUN!  sarcastic 

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 14):
NWA still is a safe reliable way to travel

Oh, so lets get this right, should all airlines outsource their "safety"?


KAHALA777


25 Stlgph : there's no selectively. Point 1 - states a point that NWA remains a competitor to any airline despite their current problem Point 2 - reminds us that
26 Mariner : If you don't understand comparatives - especially in a thread about competition - then we have a different understanding of English grammar. But - um
27 Indy : I'm going out on a limb here but I think perhaps you guys are reading far too much into this statement. When I look at that statment I think perhaps
28 Post contains images Mariner : Absolutely. Which is why my original post on it was a question - "Are you...?" as opposed to "You are..." cheers mariner
29 Burnsie28 : Do you not read, he said for NOVEMBER! That is like for August statistics. Wrong, Hawaiian Airlines had the best on-time performence according to the
30 Stlgph : the grammar is there. don't know why or how you are missing it but it seems you just keep going on and on here because you don't like to be proven in
31 N1120A : Frontier also has a FF program, and it is a mileage based one, with elite levels, like a legacy carrier, not a point based one like most US LCCs. The
32 USAFHummer : Starting with the new year, that will no longer be true...F9's only two previous mileage partners were YX and VS...YX was dropped about 3 months ago
33 Mariner : November is not over. November stats have not - to my knowledge - been published. I understand and accept that some who work for NWA may have access
34 N1120A : That is too bad. At least you still the 15K rewards.
35 Post contains links Mariner : And, for elites, the More Store: http://www.frontiermorestore.com/default.cfm Someone got a brand new Merc for just over a million miles. cheers mari
36 Indy : Kind of off topic but I noticed a sign for Northwest Cargo at IND a few weeks back. Have they been there for ages or is that a recent addition since t
37 Post contains images FlyGuyClt : Dude, I have been away for awhile. But where do you get off saying I said F9 is unsafe? I never ever said that anywhere NOR did I imply it. I was jus
38 Mariner : I did not say that, nor did I "attack" you. All I did was ask you a question which you have now answered. I accept that you did not mean to imply was
39 Bobnwa : The stat of 91% provided by Northwest was for one day , August 19 which was the day before the mechanics went on strike and they were messing thinks
40 Post contains images FlyGuyClt : I don't mix words. If I have something to say. I say it. In print and generally use spell check. Ok, from your quote and mine. How on Earth do you get
41 Mariner : It is all spelled out in some detail in the posts above. I'm not going to get into this again. I have accepted that you did not intend it, which is a
42 Post contains images FlyGuyClt : Good I am glad. When I mention something about F9 ever in a negative way. Take it that way. Until then. Don't put words in my mouth or on my posts th
43 Post contains links and images AirplaneBoy : http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051103/lath103.html?.v=21 http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/051103/1187090.html?.v=1 Cheers!
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