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LAN Argentina To Begin EZE-MIA On Dec. 1st  
User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4968 posts, RR: 25
Posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10708 times:

LAN Argentina will begin on Dec. 1st its daily service between EZE and MIA with a 767. On their webpage they offer a promotional fare of 915 US$. By the way, will they be having LV regs on these flights?

I know this topinc has been brought up in the past but as the date approaches I wanted to post  Smile

regards


Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 10684 times:

Yes, the topic has been discussed before, but it is so interesting!

Service to the US will be rather extensive now with the addition of 4M's daily flights to MIA with 70 flights per week from EZE!

AA: 28 weekly flights
EZE-MIA 14x
EZE-JFK 7x
EZE-DFW 7x

UA: 14 weekly flights
EZE-IAD 7x
EZE-ORD 7x

DL: 7 weekly flights
EZE-ATL 7x

CO: 7 weekly flights
EZE-IAH 7x [and ongoing service to EWR]

AR: 7 weekly flights
EZE-MIA 4x
EZE-JFK 3x

4M: 7 weekly flights
EZE-MIA 7x

BTW, where is 4M obtaining the necessary 767-300ER examples to fly this new route? Will they be transferred from LA? Will they be registered with 4M or CC-registered aircraft operated by 4M? 4M must need two examples to operate daily service to MIA.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33268 posts, RR: 71
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 10659 times:

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 1):
BTW, where is 4M obtaining the necessary 767-300ER examples to fly this new route? Will they be transferred from LA? Will they be registered with 4M or CC-registered aircraft operated by 4M? 4M must need two examples to operate daily service to MIA.

As with most LAN operations, I'm pretty sure it will be an LA plane operating with 4M crew. The plane will, for example, operate the daylight SCL-XXX-MIA flight (XXX being CCS/BOG/PUJ depending on the day) and then do the redeye EZE-MIA flight. I believe that's how they are doing it, but I am not sure.



a.
User currently offlineMarambio From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2004, 1162 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10655 times:

Quoting EZEIZA (Thread starter):
By the way, will they be having LV regs on these flights?

That's a very good question actually. I have just checked Lan.com and got this...

Jueves 01 diciembre 2005
19:00 Santiago (SCL) 20:55 Buenos Aires (EZE) LA481
Avión: Boeing 767

22:15 Buenos Aires (EZE) 05:05 (Viernes) Miami (MIA) 4M4520
Avión: Boeing 767


...and I picked a random return date...

Miércoles 21 diciembre 2005
20:15 Miami (MIA) 06:55 (Jueves) Buenos Aires (EZE) 4M4521
Avión: Boeing 767

Jueves 22 diciembre 2005
08:35 Buenos Aires (EZE) 10:50 Santiago (SCL) LA402
Avión: Boeing 767


In other words, Lan again thinks Argentine laws can be used as toilet paper. They will use CC-registered aircraft, with Chilean pilots, on a Lan Chile flight originating in Santiago de Chile, Buenos Aires being a mere stop-over, although with a codeshare with their fully-owned subsidiary Lan Argentina between EZE and MIA. Some rumours state Lan Chile will be nice enough to do us Argentines a favour, and use Argentine F/As. But again, those are simply rumours.

Saludos,
Marambio



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
User currently offlineAero From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 181 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 10606 times:

Argentine F/A´s will be doing the round servive EZE-MIA-EZE.

Good Luck LanArgentina! Vuela!

LAN is conecting MIA with NonStop Flights to

- SCL
- EZE
- LIM
- UIO
- GYE
- BOG
- CCS
- PUJ

A real LatinAmerican Network!

Rgds,
Aero



LAN...the star of the Latin American skies
User currently offlineTBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10578 times:

Well we will have to wait and see what takes place,. Especially after the 4M strikes that have taken place!
I mean, where have you heard of an airline where cabin crew have to do ground duties as well?
4M crew are not at all happy!
Let us hope that there is no 'snap' strike on Dec 1. Otherwise the inaugural service to MIA could have some bad publicity!


User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4968 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10537 times:

Quoting Marambio (Reply 3):
In other words, Lan again thinks Argentine laws can be used as toilet paper. They will use CC-registered aircraft, with Chilean pilots, on a Lan Chile flight originating in Santiago de Chile, Buenos Aires being a mere stop-over, although with a codeshare with their fully-owned subsidiary Lan Argentina between EZE and MIA

As a side note, its funny that they will be CC registered yet the miles that you would get with this flight for LAN Pass can't be used for Oneworld members, only for LAN, since in the webpage it says that LAN Arg is not a member of one world yet they will use One world aircraft. Sounds strange to me, but I could be just confused so I welcome explanations  Smile



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 763 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10501 times:

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 6):
As a side note, its funny that they will be CC registered yet the miles that you would get with this flight for LAN Pass can't be used for Oneworld members, only for LAN, since in the webpage it says that LAN Arg is not a member of one world yet they will use One world aircraft

Simple.

If you're a LanPass Member you can earn and reedem kilometers flying The whole Lan group (Chile, Peru, Express, Argentina and Ecuador) and the other 7 members of oneworld (and affiliates) but you will only obtain benefits from oneworld when flying oneworld carriers. EX. If you fly RDU-MIA-EZE on AA & 4M you will not be allowed in MIA OW lounge as your onward connection is not OW. Its operated by a oweworld member (Lan Chile) but your flight does not have a OW code.
But if you take RDU-MIA-EZE-SCL on AA & LA you will be allowed in the MIA and EZE lounges as the MIA-EZE-SCL is both operated and coded by a OW member

Suming up: When you are a member of a OW carrier FF program you can earn and reedem miles:
1st: on the carrier
2nd: on other OneWorld members
3rd: on thrid airlines which ARE NOT oneworld and DO NOT offer oneworld benefits


User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10476 times:

Quoting Aisak (Reply 7):
If you fly RDU-MIA-EZE on AA & 4M you will not be allowed in MIA OW lounge as your onward connection is not OW. Its operated by a oweworld member (Lan Chile) but your flight does not have a OW code.

Frankly, this all sounds rather confusing. Why are LA and LP members of oneWorld, while 4M is not? When will 4M and LAN Ecuador become members of oneWorld? Shouldn't all the LAN carriers, LA, LP, 4M and LAN Ecuador be members of oneWorld?

Quoting Marambio (Reply 3):
In other words, Lan again thinks Argentine laws can be used as toilet paper. They will use CC-registered aircraft, with Chilean pilots, on a Lan Chile flight originating in Santiago de Chile, Buenos Aires being a mere stop-over, although with a codeshare with their fully-owned subsidiary Lan Argentina between EZE and MIA. Some rumours state Lan Chile will be nice enough to do us Argentines a favour, and use Argentine F/As. But again, those are simply rumours.

Is there an Argentine law stating national carriers, such as 4M, must operate LV-registered aircraft? Wasn't Southern Winds flying wet-leased 763ER's with N-registrations sometime ago? That did not appear to violate any laws.


User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 763 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10447 times:

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 8):
Frankly, this all sounds rather confusing. Why are LA and LP members of oneWorld, while 4M is not? When will 4M and LAN Ecuador become members of oneWorld? Shouldn't all the LAN carriers, LA, LP, 4M and LAN Ecuador be members of oneWorld?

I think the same too... But there's no need for them to join. But they know the can't offer OW benefits to passengers nor obtain OW benefits for themselves

The problem comes because all of them are named LAN. Look at LH Miles&More. There are airlines whose FF program is Miles&More and yet they are not part of Star Alliance such as Air One or Air Domolti. Also Kenya Airways is fully integrated into Flying Blue but its passengers won't take advantage of SkyTeam benefits. Song is another good example.


User currently offlineMarambio From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2004, 1162 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10439 times:

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 8):
Is there an Argentine law stating national carriers, such as 4M, must operate LV-registered aircraft? Wasn't Southern Winds flying wet-leased 763ER's with N-registrations sometime ago? That did not appear to violate any laws.

Again, a good question. The Codigo Aeronautico de la Republica Argentina states all Argentine airline's aircraft must be registered under an Argentine registration, i.e. LV-xxx.

Southern Winds got an excemption from the Argentine authorities because at that time we were under CAT2 status for the USA. Therefore they were not able to fly Argentine-registered aircraft, and had to fly Icelandic, TF-registered 767s. Those were wet-leased from Air Atlanta, but flown by Argentine pilots hired by Air Atlanta on behalf of SW.

Lan Argentina cannot state SW created a precedent. Argentina is now a CAT1 country and all LV- aircraft can fly to the US. The only possibility, is to say Lan Argentina hasn't had time to cope with bureaucratic requests before lauching their EZE-MIA route. They would be able then to fly CC- aircraft while waiting for their LV- plane's authorization to be cleared, for a period of time no longer than 3 months.

Saludos,
Marambio



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
User currently offlineLH526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2381 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10415 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Marambio (Reply 10):
Again, a good question. The Codigo Aeronautico de la Republica Argentina states all Argentine airline's aircraft must be registered under an Argentine registration, i.e. LV-xxx.

Southern Winds got an excemption from the Argentine authorities because at that time we were under

So, what about ARs F- registered A310 in the 1990s?

Mario
LH526



Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
User currently offlineMarambio From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2004, 1162 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 10370 times:

Quoting LH526 (Reply 11):
So, what about ARs F- registered A310 in the 1990s?

The thing is, according to the Codigo Aeronautico, Lan could eventually have a CC-registered aircraft, but it should be exclusively used by Lan Argentina, flown by Argentine pilots, with Argentine crews, taken care of by Argentine technicians, and controlled by Argentine authorities. This CC- aircraft would then be de facto an Argentine, LV- aircraft.

During the mid 1990s, when Aerolineas leased three A310s directly from Airbus, those were France-registered, but they were de facto LV - Argentine pilots, Argentine crews, Argentine technicians, controlled by Argentine authorities. The lessor (AIFS) told Aerolineas they had to put a French registration on the plane, no matter which country's laws the aircraft would later be under. This was meant to make Aerolineas respect all French (European) maintenance regimes and regulations. Bear in mind these A310s were the very first Airbuses AR ever got. The same also happened with Southern Winds, added to the fact they could not fly to the USA because of the CAT2 restrictions.

On the other hand, Lan wants to use in Argentina the same modus operandi they have been using in Peru and Ecuador. They want to fly EZE-MIA with a Chilean aircraft randomly used by all Lan Group airlines (Lan Chile, Lan Peru, Lan Ecuador and Lan Argentina), flown by Chilean pilots, with at least half-Chilean crews, taken care of by Chilean technicians and controlled by Chilean authorities. That plane would be both de jure and de facto Chilean. And that is forbidden and illegal in Argentina.

Saludos,
Marambio

[Edited 2005-11-23 18:59:51]


Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo
User currently offlineRichardJF From New Zealand, joined Mar 2001, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10265 times:

Some marketing person somewhere saw the words LAN (I'm assuming it's Lineas Aeras Nacionales) and had a brainwave...... Latin American Network.... LAN....that makes sense. It must make sense..... surely!
You drop the Chile off the name and you lose that pride of Chileans.
These airlines serve a purpose of projecting your country's name abroad.
Not only that, if your Argentinian you would naturally take umbrage at the Chileans cherry picking AR's best routes. It is at best a self defeating exercise. Can AR fly SCL-MIA or Madrid as of right?
If you have both carriers having unlimited beyond rights you wouldn't need all these subsidiaries anyway?
These airlines should all be back in majority Government ownership
Nobody should assume that majority

Government ownership = bloated bad management


User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2411 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10151 times:

I was looking for MIA next december. LA/4M flights are already abailable, although It amazed me the price, since it's more expensive. Aparently, those flights are starting with pretty good loads.
I hope you'll get PTV equiped 763s.

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 1):
BTW, where is 4M obtaining the necessary 767-300ER examples to fly this new route? Will they be transferred from LA? Will they be registered with 4M or CC-registered aircraft operated by 4M? 4M must need two examples to operate daily service to MIA.

Indeed, LAN is already very short of aircraft, specially for SYD-MAD routes.
I'm almost sure that they will be CC registred aircraft

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 6):
it says that LAN Arg is not a member of one world yet they will use One world aircraft.

One world does not have aircraft. Besides, when you fly RG or AM and you get LanPass miles for the agreements, you also can use them in OW. So, you fly SkyTeam metal and trade for OW tkts. There is no "same aircraft same alliance same mile" rule, no contradition, just the way airlines are ruled now, welcome!

Quoting Marambio (Reply 12):
The thing is, according to the Codigo Aeronautico, Lan could eventually have a CC-registered aircraft, but it should be exclusively used by Lan Argentina, flown by Argentine pilots, with Argentine crews, taken care of by Argentine technicians, and controlled by Argentine authorities. This CC- aircraft would then be de facto an Argentine, LV- aircraft

You think that LAN will break the law? it's an idea you have there, no facts. It would be different that in december you could prove they've done wrong. Do you really think they would be that obvious? XL and LP does use full Peruvian/Ecuadorian crews.

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 13):
Some marketing person somewhere saw the words LAN (I'm assuming it's Lineas Aeras Nacionales) and had a brainwave...... Latin American Network.... LAN....that makes sense. It must make sense..... surely!
You drop the Chile off the name and you lose that pride of Chileans.
These airlines serve a purpose of projecting your country's name abroad.
Not only that, if your Argentinian you would naturally take umbrage at the Chileans cherry picking AR's best routes. It is at best a self defeating exercise. Can AR fly SCL-MIA or Madrid as of right?

When founded in 1929, LAN meant "Linea Aerea Nacional". After the unification of the brand in 2004, it started to be after "Latin Airline Network". For me it's a shame to remove the proudly Chile titles from the fuselage, although our lonely star is standing there...
AR is not allowed. They should, don't you think?



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10145 times:

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 1):
Service to the US will be rather extensive now with the addition of 4M's daily flights to MIA with 70 flights per week from EZE!

You forgot......

LAX-LIM-SCL-EZE via 763 and 343


KAHALA777


User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10125 times:

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 15):
LAX-LIM-SCL-EZE via 763 and 343

I was only referring to non-stop flights to US destinations from EZE. So far, they include

JFK
MIA
DFW
IAH
IAD
ATL
ORD

Rather impressive, seven cities nonstop!


User currently offlineDETA737 From Portugal, joined Oct 2000, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10118 times:

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 13):
These airlines serve a purpose of projecting your country's name abroad.
Not only that, if your Argentinian you would naturally take umbrage at the Chileans cherry picking AR's best routes. It is at best a self defeating exercise. Can AR fly SCL-MIA or Madrid as of right?
If you have both carriers having unlimited beyond rights you wouldn't need all these subsidiaries anyway?

Correct me if I'm wrong but both Chile and Argentina have Open Skies treaties with the United States and I'd assume that the Chilean government would allow AR to fly SCL-MIA, since Argentina is allowing LAN to fly EZE-MIA. However, once they get more aircraft and if they see it's an economically viable route why not try it? Perhaps they could do SCL-LAX instead. Argentinians should be glad there's more competition on the route, prices can go down on flights and bring in more tourists and make trips to the U.S. more affordable.


User currently offlineKahala777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10107 times:

Quoting DETA737 (Reply 17):
Perhaps they could do SCL-LAX instead.

It has been done in the past with the A340, flying time was in the range of 12 hours 45 - 13 hours 20 from Los Angeles to Santiago. However those were much better times than included VARIG 2 x daily to Los Angeles. Avianca to Mexico City. EVA Airways to Panama City. Korean Airlines 4 x weekly to Sao Paulo as well.

KAHALA777


User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10100 times:

Quoting DETA737 (Reply 17):
Argentinians should be glad there's more competition on the route, prices can go down on flights and bring in more tourists and make trips to the U.S. more affordable.

I completely agree. I predict the civil aviation code in Argentina will eventually be liberalized to allow shareholders from fellow Mercosur nations controlling equity interests in Argentine carriers AND domestic cabotage rights to Mercosur carriers AND fifth-freedom rights to Mercosur carriers.

[Of course Chile must first become a full-member of Mercosur, not just an associate member. This will also happen, I believe.]

The liberalization will be completely reciprocal, with all the other members offering identical rights to fellow Mercosur carriers.


User currently offlineMD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3149 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10082 times:

Quoting Arcano (Reply 14):
You think that LAN will break the law? it's an idea you have there, no facts. It would be different that in december you could prove they've done wrong. Do you really think they would be that obvious? XL and LP does use full Peruvian/Ecuadorian crews.

huh? Uh, yeah? Because the aircrafts are registered in BARBADOS!

You see, if they start flying CC- registered Aircraft, they will break the law. We will see three months after the start of international operations for LAN Argentina.

cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offlineMD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3149 posts, RR: 57
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10053 times:

Quoting DETA737 (Reply 17):
Argentinians should be glad there's more competition on the route, prices can go down on flights and bring in more tourists and make trips to the U.S. more affordable

You seem not to know that prices are not regulated by the market in Argentina. There are low and high price bands set by the government and that the airlines NEED to maintain those prices in order not to get a fine from the government. Also, add up that there's no thorough competition because LAN is only flying the profitable routes whereas ARSA (AR/AU) flying to 33 destinationes (15-20 non profitable routes), making that unfair competition.
Also, I'm not glad that the competition we have is dirty. If LAN was to enter the country clean, and with a smooth entrance, respecting all rules - then, I would be glad we have it. Since we don't... I'm not. I'm glad that many of us are not glad of having LAN around.

Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD11 Junkie



There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
User currently offline3201 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10009 times:

Quoting Aisak (Reply 7):
EX. If you fly RDU-MIA-EZE on AA & 4M you will not be allowed in MIA OW lounge as your onward connection is not OW. Its operated by a oweworld member (Lan Chile) but your flight does not have a OW code.
But if you take RDU-MIA-EZE-SCL on AA & LA you will be allowed in the MIA and EZE lounges as the MIA-EZE-SCL is both operated and coded by a OW member

OK, yeah -- and if you fly LA SCL-MIA in J and transfer to AA MIA-SFO in F, you will not be allowed in the lounge in MIA, because the braindead woman at the desk says "LAN isn't OneWorld," despite the fact that your LAN boarding pass has the oneworld logo on it, and you can produce the AA inflight magazine which lists LAN as a OneWorld carrier with Admirals Club lounge access. Even in the face of all that evidence, she says, "I'm sorry, LAN is not OneWorld, you don't have access permission." Oh, and adding insult to injury, she takes your attractive LAN boarding pass for your connecting flight and gives you an ugly green AA one instead.

Fortunately there are two Admirals Clubs, and you will get into the other one, but it means going back outside security, thus having to go through an extra time. Your neighbors on your connecting flight will appreciate the extra effort, though, since a shower really helps after your 8-hour flight, even in J.

I guess I should complain about it, eh? Help them improve their service, yadi yadi yadi. But why should the burden be on me to waste my time writing a letter, when I won't benefit any from it anyway? I'd rather just rant on a.net.  Smile


User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 763 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9964 times:

Quoting 3201 (Reply 22):
OK, yeah -- and if you fly LA SCL-MIA in J and transfer to AA MIA-SFO in F, you will not be allowed in the lounge in MIA, because the braindead woman at the desk says "LAN isn't OneWorld,"

Woo.. It seems someone sneaked out of the employee training!!!

Copying-Pasting from Oneworld benefits

"Access is available on the day of departure when your next onward flight is with a one world member airline."

So if you fly anywhere(with "Whatev-air")-MIA-SFO and MIA-SFO is OW ticketed and operated, the OW policy says you're in

You know.... you can always collide with that kind of people


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9940 times:

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 20):

Hola Gastón!

Actually, it's worse, the three Bermudan-registered A320s of LAN Perú were placed back of the CC-register last year. Worse still, in spite of their supposed "allocation" to the Peruvian subsidiary, they also operate Chilean domestic and other regional services too, so in spite of their microscopic Peruvian flags on their tails, these aircraft are effectively Chilean.

With regards to the illegitimacy of LAN Argentina, I think it simply boils down to the following: If you tell someone "under no circumstances think of a pink elephant", what's the first thing they are going to do? Similarly, if you tell someone not to break the law in Argentina (which almost everyone does to a varying degree), what as human beings are they most likely to do?

Yes LAN are cynical, and that aspect of them tarnishes what is otherwise a positive image I have of them. However, the main reason they have come to exist in Argentina is a combination of "because they could" and of Argentine incompetence and ineptitude at forcing them to play by the rules. The door was open and no one closed it, that that nothing would have prevented a semi-competent Argentine Government from doing so.

Saludos,

ZXV

[Edited 2005-11-25 14:03:00]


How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
25 Post contains images MD11junkie : Hola Máximo! I could not have agreed more with what you say. I never denied the degree of fault that the Argentine Government, but some users tend t
26 Aero : Guys: How will ever Argentina emerge from its current underdeveloped status with this rather protectionist (back to the 70th´s) behavior? - You don´
27 Luisde8cd : Couldn't agree more with you. Although I support the statement made by most argentine friends here regarding respecting the law, I STRONGLY believe t
28 Aero : Luis: Of course, all investors need to respect law, no discussions on that, but at this point, it looks for me than any integration approach or any gl
29 Post contains images MD11junkie : Aero, With all due respect, you are living in Germany. The standards required by the government are always respected due to a strong presence of the
30 Marambio : I beg to disagree here. Argentina is currently emerging from its bankrupcy without any international help. Indeed the international situation is help
31 LVZXV : Some excellent points Gastón, the best of which I would say was the one of Latin America not being ready for deregulation. With respect to LAN, quite
32 Arcano : It's different, 99% of SCL flights are final destination, and we are only 15 millions with an average income of US$10000. Mix that and you get a natu
33 Post contains images Marambio : Máximo: Brilliant post! Arcano, K hates everybody because that's part of his way of being and a side of the Pinguinoid's political modus operandi. In
34 LanPeru : Umm no they dont..I am in Santiago right now lol. I flew Lan Peru 607 LAX-LIM in Business and the service was bad to say the least..I will elaborate
35 Aero : Thanks for the brief update on Argentine aviation´s history. I did not want to accuse "Argentina" of being the bad guy, I´m just concerned about you
36 Hardiwv : I thought UA dropped ORD-EZE, correct? Of course, then LA could fly to Europe with a stop-over in GRU...thanks, but NO! And what is the advantage of
37 MAH4546 : Just in time for the new flights, effective 01Dec05, LANArgentina (and LANEcuador) are now AAdvantage members. No. It is a seasonal service.
38 Arcano : Does anybody know if the flight leaved on time? At this time, AA2000 shows "boarding", so there could be some minutes of delay Unfair analysis leading
39 ArgInMIA : 1st flight was cancelled
40 EddieDude : Does not sound so promotional to me. Is it an attractive fare, friends from Argentina?
41 Post contains images MD11junkie : No, AR is usually 800 tops. First flight has been rerouted through Santiago, using a CC- registered plane, chilean cabin crew. So much for LAN Argent
42 Post contains images USADreamliner : PROMOTIONAL? Is this a joke? Maybe $ 591? Just a comment, please visit airlinequality.com and check the comments about LAN and the comments about AR.
43 Post contains images EZEIZA : If I got it right, the flight 4M 4520 was cancelled and pax were rerouted as you correctly said (through a regular) LA flight 6502 via SCL. Great sta
44 Aero : Hi Guys: Well apparently they had some issues. At least Paxs were not stranded. I guess they could have been transported by AA too. I check very regul
45 Post contains images MD11junkie : The flights are blocked in the reservation systems until May 2006. This means 'LAN Argentina' is in serious trouble. Some passengers demanded their m
46 Jj : So what's the deal now? no LAN Argentina international flights for the time being? I'm glad that the government (or whoever it was) finally enforced t
47 Arcano : Indeed, why was that? what happens in May? "If the chileans"???? and then you people say that this is not about countries?!?!?!
48 Post contains images MD11junkie : Basically, they tried to use the same system as in LAN Peru and LAN Ecuador. Argentine law does not allow that. I believe they are having May 2006 as
49 Marambio : Good evening gentlemen, I just got this e-mail from my travel agent, which I thought may be interesting. Since most (if not all) of those who read thi
50 Post contains images Cubsrule : While I know better than to listen to a lot of the sniping between Argentines and Chileans, I really don't understand what you are saying here. Looks
51 Nickofatlanta : unfortunate for consumers that there now are still only two nonstop choices between EZE and MIA ... LAN Argentina would have been a very welcome addit
52 Post contains images Jj : You are right indeed. By saying chileans I meant LAN, not every chilean citizen. I apologize for any confusion here... Being CAT I or CAT II has noth
53 Cubsrule : I certainly agree that CAT2 is about more than just maintenance and is instead (allegedly, at least) a measure of the safety of civil aviation in a c
54 MAH4546 : It is very unfortunate that now Argentines and Americans alike will have to face the choice between American's high fares or Aerolineas Argentina's un
55 Arcano : 100% agree, nothing to say about it, if not codesharing or any legal resource about it, LAN MUST register their a/c with Argentine flag on it. Isn't
56 Post contains images MD11junkie : What the heck are you talking about? We've never trashed Chilean civil aviation. We've always said that LAN has to respect the Argentine civil aviati
57 Cubsrule : Perhaps it was a language issue. He said: That sounds like a maintenance argument to me. If not, I apologize. LA 732s fly around Peru and Chile, and
58 Post contains links and images LVZXV : Mmmm, sort of true. AR's 737-287s were indeed early-build (1970-74), but there were and still are quite a few in the world that are older, mostly in
59 Post contains images Arcano : Why wouldn't someone believe? we have several old birds flying every day in Chile, with Lan Express, Sky and Aerolineas (which recently removed Chile
60 Pdpsol : I am a bit baffled here; why is this issue being raised NOW, the weekend AFTER 4M was supposed to inaugurate the EZE-MIA nonstop? Are you telling me
61 Pdpsol : Guys, A question I posted last night was removed [along with a bunch of other posts]. My question relates to the 90-day exemption granted to LA and 4M
62 TBCITDG : Hey guys! Will try to post again, as my post last night was one of the few taken out. Cubs: The whole issue about why Argentina was placed under CAT I
63 Pdpsol : Right, I am aware of this. However, as I mentioned in my last post, I was under the impression LA and 4M were awarded a 90-exemption from the Argenti
64 Post contains images Jj : I don't think so... I mean it wouldn't make sense! But then again when has our government made any sense??? Jokes aside, what I believe happened is t
65 TACAA320 : Can you prove such statement? This is a friendly question. Don't be offended by it.
66 Aero : It´s a very emotional statement! Friendly comment from myself. Rgds, Aero
67 MAH4546 : Actually, the plan is to have a pair of 767s transferred as soon as February.
68 Post contains images Aero : They will need them, as LAN Argentina wants to start EZE-MAD-EZE soon too.
69 MAH4546 : I wouldn't be surprsied to see LAN Argentina hold off on entering this very crowded market. Air Air Madrid, Air Europa, Iberia, and Aerolineas Aregen
70 LVZXV : Mark: Air Europa never flew to EZE; they codeshared with Southern Winds until May 2005 when Southern Winds stopped flying international. Aerolíneas a
71 TACAA320 : Sorry, but now I'm really confused. I was not quoting you.
72 Aero : I know, i meant that saying something like this: is rather emotional than objective.
73 TACAA320 : With all due respect, emotional or objective is a "subjective" point of view but most important "still unanswered".
74 TACAA320 : Still waiting...
75 DCAjet : These kind of statements are loaded and subjective, as you can slice the data any way you want it, and Airline A has better maintenance, is safer, wha
76 TACAA320 : That's all I want to hear.
77 Post contains links Aero : I agree! That´s why i said that this assumption of our Argentine fellow is rather subjective and hard to prove. Don´t forget that LAN offers mainte
78 Post contains images EZEIZA : I believe though there were no fatalities on those accidents (although t obe honest I don't have time to double check, I will later, so correct me if
79 LVZXV : AR have indeed had some hull-losses in the past 35 years: -An F28 (LV-LOB) in Concordia, 1975. No fatalities. -A 707 Freighter (LV-JGR) at EZE, 1986.
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