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SK To End Intercontinental Flights In 10 Years?  
User currently offlineOYRJA From Denmark, joined Feb 2007, 78 posts, RR: 15
Posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 14782 times:

I read in danish travel magazine that SK might end all their Intercontinental flights in 10 years because they are loosing way to much money on them.
And they will concentrate on operating only in Europe instead of.
They are still in debt with 13 billion Dkr. And that is alot, so something has to be done.

Would that be a good decision to make now that there are so many LCC's in Europe? Wouldn't it be smarter to make a new Niche and fly to places where not too many airlines fly to overseas?

108 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 857 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14609 times:

I wouldnt be suprised at all if SK goes down the toilet..

Micke//SE  Angry



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently onlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3224 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14556 times:

I think SK need a completely new business model because the old one clearly isn't working.

Unless you live in CPH, what advantage does taking SK for an intercontinental flight offer you? Not much, unless you happen to live in ARN and want to go to either EWR or ORD.

It could very well be a case of trying to get the cost base down to a level to make it worthwhile, but some attempt does need to be made to serve these people... to the greater world, otherwise what is the point? KLM, LH and BA serve just as effectively.

It is worth noting that Finnair seem to be able to succefully connect little HEL to the world a lot better than SAS manage the much larger ARN? And what about OSL? CO seems to make it work. At the very least, ARN should be linked to a few Key hubs in Asia (changi and BKK for starters) and the USA.


User currently offlineMaersk737 From Denmark, joined Feb 2004, 715 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14547 times:

I think the management say things like that, to lay maximum pressure on the employees....

Cheers

Peter



I'm not proud to be a Viking, just thankfull
User currently offlineAF-A319 From France, joined Oct 1999, 603 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 14501 times:

If they have been loosing money on these routes for many years, why don't they stop them now? Maybe the SK Shareholders (i.e. the Scandinavian taxpayers) are happy to pay for them?

That's only a point of view, but I think that Star alliance has WAY TOO MANY hubs in central Europe (CPH, FRA, MUC, ZRH, WAW, VIE...) and some will need to go! CPH is unfortunately a likely candidate, unless SK dramatically change the structure of its long haul network and only keeps some very limited presence on routes where it can have a geographic advantage (AY could be an example to follow).


User currently offlineSK973 From Sweden, joined Mar 2004, 327 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 14460 times:

More long haul routes out from ARN would be a nice start. Especially BKK and SIN like Lufthansa said!  Smile

User currently offlineOYRJA From Denmark, joined Feb 2007, 78 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 14396 times:

But they have BKK already from ARN.
But maybe they should expand some more in Asia/Far east instead.


User currently offlinePavlovsDog From Norway, joined Sep 2005, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14328 times:

My impression from the last financials I saw that was SAS-Braathens (Norway) and Spanair were basically paying for the rest of the company.

The 340's are too big for SK. They could use the 787's when they come out.


User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2215 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14295 times:
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I thought most of SK's intercont. flights were flying pretty full all the time... are the yields too low to earn money?

I think SK made a big mistake back in the 1980s when they branded themselves as "the businessman's airline" - many "ordinary" people felt that they weren't good enough for SK and chose other airlines and stuck to them for the next 15-20 years... thus limiting SK's opportunities as their pax potential became limited. Scandinavians take egalitarianism seriously, you know... we are all as good as the next person  Smile

Now SK is striving to be an airline for everyone, and it's working in regards to their European network where they have had significant growth this year with increased profits.

Maybe they ought to reduce their biz-class cabin and offer more Y seats as the leisure market is growing fast - as LCCs can attest... the long-haul leisure market is the next step.



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineMatt27 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14260 times:

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 7):
The 340's are too big for SK.

Really?? From what I hear SAS' A330/340s are more or less full on most flights?


User currently offlineScalebuilder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14244 times:

I agree with Lufthansa's statement. SAS is in need of a complete revamp as an organization. Over the years SAS has gobbled up most of the competition. Needless to say, some of these resulted in some nice gains when they were sold.

In it's current day form SAS is run as a hodge podge airline with two many brands under the same umbrella. You have the traditional SK brand,SAS International, SAS Braathens in Norway, and then you have Snowflake on top of that (I am leaving out all other subsidiaries in the SAS family). I'm not surprised why the flying passenger is having a hard time identifying SAS as a brand out there.

SAS used to be a pioneering airline famous for innovation. For the past 10 years it has adopted the "lets follow and copy Joe" approach. The end result is an airline that has faced stagnation and incurred consistent financial losses.

To end intercontinental routes may be just another symptom of what I have described above. Most airlines make money participating in this segment. It is ultimately how you run your airline in this segment, and not just where you fly, that determines profitability.


User currently offlineMAS777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2937 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14219 times:

It is interesting that SAS has managed to survive all this time serving 3 masters (as national carrier). Perhaps dissolution may be the way forward? Look at Malaysia-Singapore Airlines - since its split in 1972 we now have 2 of the worlds best carriers competing almost head-to-head with the consumer being the ultimate winner.

User currently offlineMaersk737 From Denmark, joined Feb 2004, 715 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14190 times:

Well, if we look at the third quarter report from SAS, it looks as they are actually doing pretty well Big grin

http://www.sasgroup.net/SASGROUP_IR/CMSForeignContent/q305eng_s.pdf

Cheers

Peter



I'm not proud to be a Viking, just thankfull
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8601 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14160 times:
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Quoting MAS777 (Reply 11):
Look at Malaysia-Singapore Airlines - since its split in 1972 we now have 2 of the worlds best carriers competing almost head-to-head with the consumer being the ultimate winner.

there is a huge difference - both SIN and KUL are well situated as intercontinental hubs and are in an area of huge traffic growth. How much of a hub could either ARN or OSL be on their own . They are on the periphery of Europe in sparsely populated countries ( albeit very wealthy ones ) .

At the moment SK does seem something of an anomaly as a multinational carrier ( there is an interesting thread out there on the subject although mainly with reference to TA rather than SK ) but with increasing consolidation of the industry I think this will become more common - we are already seeing tentative steps in this direction AF/KL , LH/LX etc .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineScalebuilder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 14079 times:

I don't think we should put too much emphasis on numbers that turned from red to black. Competing (and partnering) airlines like Lufthansa, KLM etc. have shown consistent profitability for several years. SAS has not.

SAS management needs to simply face the facts. The SAS product has become way too complicated. If you study their financials. there are exceptions from subsidiaries within the SAS family that have shown viability of its own, but that is likely because these have the independence and autonomy to be run as simple stand-alone brands.

I think it makes sense for Scandinavia to have one common carrier. And facing the demographic challenges of low population and traffic growth in the years ahead, this airline simply needs to think new. A new CEO who understands these facts is step number one. Their current one simply doesn't get it. He has cut cost, but made the organization even more complicated.


User currently offlineBjornstrom From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 329 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13984 times:

All flights from SIN/BKK (yes, they fly to SIN via BKK) are sold-out until the last seats recently. I had a real problem getting a Business Class ticket home from BKK but got Seat 1A when someone didnt make it to the airport (had to standby for the seat).

Talked to the Stewardess aboard our flight: "Its always full on these flights".

After renewing the Business Class to only 32 (or 36?) seats they will have even less seats to sell.



Eurobonus Gold | BMI Gold | http://my.flightmemory.com/bjornstrom/
User currently offlineRedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2302 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13957 times:

Quoting OYRJA (Reply 6):
But they have BKK already from ARN.

No. The only long hauls from ARN are to EWR and ORD.

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 7):
The 340's are too big for SK.

I think that they actually need bigger planes for some routes. Thai can fill a 744 seven days a week between CPH-BKK. SAS has only six weekly flights on an A343 on the same route with an extension to SIN.

AY has more seats in their MD-11 than SAS has in their A333 and A343. Besides, AY is the home carrier for five million people only, while SAS is the home carrier for 19 million people. The difference is that AY has a vision of making HEL into a long haul hub, while SAS has a vision of trying to compete with Ryanair.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 13):
How much of a hub could either ARN or OSL be on their own . They are on the periphery of Europe in sparsely populated countries ( albeit very wealthy ones ) .

Sweden and Stockholm are much bigger than Finland and Helsinki, so I believe that ARN has a much bigger potential than HEL has.



Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
User currently offlinePersotvik From Norway, joined Nov 1999, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13920 times:

Quoting OYRJA (Reply 6):
But they have BKK already from ARN.
But maybe they should expand some more in Asia/Far east instead.

SK Don't fly ARN-BKK. That's TG.
The main problem is the costbase of the airline. CEO Lindegaard have stated if they can lower the costbase by 20 % they will start three new longhauls from ARN. Additional 3 aircrafts will be brougth into the fleet Smile
ARN-TYO is very much wanted Smile



Just love flying
User currently offlineTR From UK - England, joined May 2001, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13914 times:

Quoting Scalebuilder (Reply 14):
new CEO who understands these facts is step number one. Their current one simply doesn't get it

The easiest thing to do is to blame it all on Jørgen Lindegaard. It is correct that he came without an aviation background. IMO being an 'insider' is not always right. Look at many airline CEO's who are walking from one airline to another, leaving a mess bigger every time. Lindegaard had it all against him almost from day 1. 9/11 came almost as his took office followed about a month later by the tragic disaster in Milan. Then the 'airline man number one' in SAS, Vagn Sørensen, had to resign in the aftermath of the SAS/Maersk cartel. Sørensen for sure was the man who was supposed to stand by Lindegaard and take care of much of the day-to-day running of SAS. Lindegaard was left alone with a cargo hold full of disaster.

From there I think he has worked his way up. He has made mistakes, yes. Who wouldn't? But he has stuck with his plan and he has followed it and adjusted accordingly. I think he has taken the approach "it is better to make faults when you work to achieve own objectives than to make faults by blindly following other peoples objectives".

Weather he will stay or go I think depend on the results. SAS has been cutting costs, but SAS is still flying so many costs were there to be cut. They are back in black numbers. Yes, there is a lot to decide on, but I am sure SAS will survive. Maybe in another shape than today. But SAS will be around. And who knows. Vagn Sørensen will not extend his contract with Austrian Airlines and he returns to Denmark in a year from now.

[Edited 2005-11-24 16:40:58]

User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2215 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 13850 times:
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If the 343 is too small for some Asian routes, perhaps they should give fellow Star partner Air Canada a call and lease their two A345s when AC start accepting the 777s... will be cheaper than buying new aircraft and mx-wise the 345 and 333 use the Trent 500 and 700 engines which are very similar.
The 345 should have room for 20-30 more Y seats.



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineScalebuilder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 13843 times:

Quoting RedChili (Reply 16):
The difference is that AY has a vision of making HEL into a long haul hub, while SAS has a vision of trying to compete with Ryanair

Could not have said this better myself. SAS is a legacy carrier, not a low cost carrier, but look at how SAS management deals with just that? The lack of vision within SAS will one day bring this airline down. Instead of acquiring Finnair, SAS should rather try to learn from this airline. If Finnair can make money filling up their long haul flights in a 5 million market, then why is it so that SAS can't do the same in a 19+ million market?


User currently offlineOYRJA From Denmark, joined Feb 2007, 78 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 13821 times:

Quoting Persotvik (Reply 17):
SK Don't fly ARN-BKK. That's TG.

Thats true. It's TG. My bad.  Sad


User currently offlineTR From UK - England, joined May 2001, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 13807 times:

Quoting Scalebuilder (Reply 20):
The lack of vision within SAS will one day bring this airline down.

One of those statements that people start to believe just because it is repeated over and over again. I am not saying that I have any idea on how to run an airline. It is not my profession. However SAS has for many, many years been a 'first mover' and they still are. Not everything goes as planned - that's obvious. But to repeatedly state that they have no vision is far off.

Quoting Scalebuilder (Reply 20):
If Finnair can make money filling up their long haul flights in a 5 million market, then why is it so that SAS can't do the same in a 19+ million market?

SAS fills their long haul flights!! I travel a lot on SAS long haul and most flights are full to the last seat. Even in high yield Business Class. A full plane is not the same as making money. It is not that easy. If it was, many long gone airlines would still be flying proudly.


User currently offlineMatt27 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 13781 times:

Quoting Scalebuilder (Reply 20):
If Finnair can make money filling up their long haul flights in a 5 million market, then why is it so that SAS can't do the same in a 19+ million market?

The thing is: if a Swede(or Dane) wants to go on vacation (long-haul) the last airline he/she looks at is SAS. We have gotten used to fly long-haul via AMS, LHR, FRA, CDG. People don't see SAS as an option. The same thing happens if you go to a travel agent. They never look up SAS' prices or schedules. It's always KLM via AMS or Lufthansa via FRA.
I think ARN-BKK would be profitable for SAS, Thai fly the route 5/w all with a B747-400. The demand for seats to Thailand is HUGE in Sweden (maybe in Denmark and Norway too)


User currently offlineScalebuilder From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 13745 times:

Quoting TR (Reply 18):
The easiest thing to do is to blame it all on Jørgen Lindegaard.

I am not trying to blame Jørgen Lindegaard. I just don't see success for SAS in his future tenure with this airline. Maybe SAS simply needs someone with a strong airline and financial background to get the job done. I wish Gordon Bethune had a European counterpart. That person could get this airline on track and with results to prove it.

I think SAS has followed a blindfolded strategy over the past few years. They created Snowflake...what's the purpose of that? You only create competition against yourself. It just doesn't fit.... and here comes SAS Braathens. I know that the name Braathens has strong brand loyalty in Norway, but what value does it really add to overall consolidated results to brand your airplanes SAS Braathens rather than plain SAS? They need to let go of the sentimentality. It costs money to hang on to those kind of things. Think of how SAS reports results? My guess is that additional people had to be hired just so we can effectively "track that SAS Braathens" brand.

I acknowledge that Jørgen Lindegaard has achieved much needed cost cuts, and maybe better integration with the labor unions. He has just added too much complexity to the SAS organizational chart. We need a man (or woman) who can use and apply the word simplicity.


25 Scalebuilder : True statement for SAS it seems. Wrong for Finnair. Why?
26 TristarSteve : Anyone can fill an aircraft with pax. The clever bit is filling it with pax who have paid good money for their ticket. Look at Ryanair. They can fill
27 Scalebuilder : This is key. This is where Jørgen Lindegaard can make a difference. Instead of inventing yet another brand of air travel that never gets the necessa
28 Stitch : I hear our SEA-CPH flight is one of the best moneymakers in the system. No clue if it is true. They are advertising that they have Connexion pretty he
29 Lufthansa : You know guys, the Ideal man for this Job is available. I think, as unthinkable as it may seem to those in Scandinavia, it is time to bring in an outs
30 Scalebuilder : I am with you on this one.... Bring in some completely new thinking. Jørgen Lindegaard may be good at cutting cost, but we should not confuse that w
31 ThaiAggie : TG low cost??? since when???
32 Econojetter : I, too, believe that's where the consolidation in Europe is headed. SAS was formed more for political reasons than market pressures. Remaining in suc
33 AirPacific747 : All the longhaul flights with SAS I have been on have been full. I think that maybe if they introduced some allnew longhaul routes, that would help to
34 Hodja : Not intending to side with Jørgen Lindegaard in any way, but I think he's up against almost insurmountable forces. Forget about Snowflake experiments
35 Scandinavian : Since the beginning of November they fly 6/w, Monday is the only day when they do not fly ARN-BKK.
36 Scalebuilder : I have to disagree here. It is one of the most fundamental problems SAS has today. When you market yourself under too many brands, you simply lose tr
37 Maersk737 : They dont have any Snowflake airline anymore.... SAS have to bring down the cost, before they can bring up the visions. Cheers Peter
38 Doona : What's Jan Carlzon doing nowadays? We want him back! Cheers Mats
39 Scalebuilder : He needs to step down in favor of someone who could effectively deal with this. If you can't get the job done, you need to move on. Scandinavia needs
40 Windshear : ok! I have heard the opposite thing, that SK was loosing money on trying to combat the European string of airlines. I have heard that the one thing th
41 Post contains images Maersk737 : He did bring the airline up, and down again I do not agree with that....And I am a best armchair-CEO on A.net Cheers Peter
42 Panamandy : vikings one thing is for sure, if sas fails one day, one of the best and innovative airlines wl be gone! their problems is the burden of the past! sas
43 Scalebuilder : Ending note from me on this topic... I haven't even touched on the fleet selection of SAS. Puzzles me just as much as their lack of business strategy.
44 Thepilot : I believe this is true. I have flown SEA to CPH twice, and both times, to and from, the flight was completely full. From what I hear at SEA, this rou
45 Persotvik : The problem is that SK don't have enough longhaul traffic to make up for the losses on the European network. Finally the Norwegian division is back in
46 Scalebuilder : Even though the flight is full does not make the flight is a moneymaker. SAS used to fly to NYC from Oslo with full flights too, but lost money on th
47 RedChili : What I'm really concerned about is that SAS may turn into a mere feeder airline for Lufthansa's long haul flights. I already have the impression that
48 Scalebuilder : You see, Lufthansa has done it's homework. They have their strategy that SAS lacks. Do you see low cost subsidiaries around that compete directly aga
49 CPH757 : I'm quite surprised by the topic and many of your comments about the status of the SAS organization and the CEO. The fact is that SAS has undergone a
50 Hodja : Actually I'm cautiously optimistic too. Fundamentally SAS has a lot of inherent value. They just need to bring down the costs. panamandy was spot on:
51 Scalebuilder : To respond to your latest e-mail. I assume you are referring to me about those questions and comments...and the changing of the topic...Sorry if I con
52 Tango-Bravo : Reminds me of the axiom "no airline has gone out of business because of aircraft that are too small," which is generally used to suggest that airline
53 Wassch71 : I totally agree with the previous post. It would be sad to see SAS' legacy as a pioneer of long haul flights end. PS: Intercontinental network of SAS
54 Tango-Bravo : In many respects, FRA already is a more major intercontinental hub for SAS than CPH, based on the number of worldwide destinations that LH makes avai
55 Mikkel777 : As long as BUSK earns money, they will not go away. The 788/9/10 would be perfect for SAS. 8 on the thinner routes, like OSL-EWR/ORD, 9 on many of th
56 Econojetter : Would you kindly list all those brands of which you speak? Plenty of identity to rebrand? Please elaborate. What does it mean to get out of this "ser
57 Econojetter : I think the A330/A340 order was placed around 1997/98 (?) after evaluating both the Airbus products and the Boeing 777-200ER. It was to increase capa
58 Scalebuilder : Not to bring doomsday over SAS at all. Certainly not my intention. But we have seen some interesting responses during the course of the day. You menti
59 Semsem : Many European airlines will be owned by the 3 biggies; LH, AF and BA. LX and SK etc will simply feed to the larger carriers.
60 Scalebuilder : This seems like where we are heading. It simply isn't economically viable to maintain those proud, national carriers of thin markets. There are excep
61 Maersk737 : The above is coming from an analyst in a Danish bank(Jyske Bank), who believes, that the airlines who can afford to buy and fill up the A380, are the
62 Econojetter : Alright, let's take SAS, SAS Braathens and Snowflake. Snowflake is no longer an operating unit, so issues like paint, staff costs etc. are irrelevant
63 Malmoaviation : SK have already sold of one of their profitgiving companies, EAG to a Canadian company named NavTech. Everything in the corporation is for sale, exclu
64 Andaman : For Finnair's Asia network it isn't that much question about 5 milj Finns but as using HEL as a hub for Asians, especially for Chinese, who are trave
65 Scalebuilder : Finnair has a good management team in place that stays focused on building and expanding market share that only is profitable, shareholder value and
66 Persotvik : SK did one big mistake!! They should have excersized their LOL for the MD11's. Better cargo and pax capacity than the B767's and no unscheduled refuel
67 Scalebuilder : Interesting point. Without the all of the detail knowledge of the nuts and the bolts that drive aircraft economics, I am somewhat baffled by the shif
68 Scalebuilder : It may be ok to say that that the cost is insignificant today. Sum up the cost for the three past years and redo the math. This wasn't cheap. So wher
69 Maersk737 : No matter how hopeless you think the SAS management is, they are making money this year. How many airlines are actually doing that? Cheers Peter
70 Post contains images Argento : HKG GIG YMX LAX HND CPQ
71 Scalebuilder : Lot's of them are in Europe. Not here in the states though.
72 Mikkel777 : The Airbus was chosen because SK wanted to expand. 321 should feed more pax from central and northern Europe to the hub in CPH, and the larger 340/33
73 Matt27 : Why would the 777 be so good? SAS choosed Airbus because the A330/A340 were better for them.
74 Mikkel777 : 343 is to small, since SK can not get more slots on certain airports (NRT)
75 Matt27 : A340-500/600...
76 Econojetter : God... what was I thinking? You're right, it was frivolous expenditure. They tried Snowflake when they clearly knew it wouldn't work. Had some fun wi
77 Scalebuilder : Why? Do you know the answer?
78 MAH4546 : They don't lose money. Seattle-Copenhagen is one of SAS' best performing long haul routes. Full flights don't always mean a profit, but that doesn't
79 Scalebuilder : I hope SAS knows about that. I sometimes wonder how SAS can track and measure profits accurately and effectively. Here in the states it is done very
80 Post contains images Persotvik : This is rubbish. The pilot unions were against A33/A340. They still have weight penalties on westbound flights from Asia and remember that the A340 h
81 Post contains images Atmx2000 : Maybe they should change the name of STAR Alliance to STAR Axis?
82 Mikkel777 : Why would SK choose 345/6 for a few routes if they had 767 as their main longhaul type? The 777 has proved to be a better performer, even if the pric
83 Post contains images Anxebla : The rubbish here is that pilot statement: Maybe the poor man is mixing an airline --LH-- with an aircraft manufacturer --Airbus-- Please ...Can you t
84 Matt27 : Times change. 10-15 years ago SAS maybe didn't need a bigger aircraft then the 767, but today they do. The 333/343 may also be too small for some rou
85 Atmx2000 : Maybe they have dreams of taking over SAS, and want to prevent fleet incompatibility.
86 Mikkel777 : You did not really get my point. SK would have been better of keeping the 767 longer, and supplement the longhaul fleet with a couple of 777 for the
87 Matt27 : YES, but as you said SAS took delivery of the A340 at the worst time possible, and they needed to get rid off the 767s ASAP. Too bad. The 767 would h
88 Scalebuilder : What a great discussion! I think we are touching on some of the very key points in this discussion, and it comes back to the initial post within this
89 Copenhagenboy : "It is key to be able to tell where money is made and where money is lost, and to be able to understand and explain why." Yes, and that is exactly why
90 SULUK : Where did you get this from? This would absolutely not make any sense! However, such a decision would not surprise me...
91 Post contains links Copenhagenboy : http://www.standby.dk/4435.0.html?&t...i1[showUid]=16691&cHash=de85133872 Sorry only in Danish I am trying to give a short translation: SAS Ground Han
92 Post contains images AirPacific747 : seeing those pictures makes me realize how much I miss SAS' 767s with their OLD paintscheme on them.. pure nostalgy
93 Scalebuilder : Wow! 13 companies! I realize that being multilateral also means being decentralized. There will be organizational challenges as a result. These are h
94 Post contains images Copenhagenboy : Scalebouilder, you are correct in many ways, but SAS is not over-branded, in the public, there is only one SAS, despite Norway who has the Brathens in
95 Post contains images Planemanofnz : Maybe SAS should fly their own metal to Australia and even to NZ. Entering a route like CPH-PVG-AKL might be profitable as no european airline really
96 Maersk737 : It´s not 13 companies... I would call it 13 profit departments in the company. They have to find out where they are loosing/making money.... And sti
97 Matt27 : CPH-PVG-AKL sounds interesting, but if SAS would start this route (which I doubt) they would need a bigger plane than the A340-300. An A340-600 would
98 Hodja : This was a *key* problem with the "old" SAS. Hearsay: I heard when they axed CPH-LAX about 11 years due to low yields in C-class, subsequently some p
99 Matt27 : Same in Sweden. Actually last year when I was looking for seats CHP-BKK-CPH I found out that SAS offered the cheapest fare. TG, LH, KL, BA were about
100 BOAC911 : Actually SAS is the more inexpensive option for many Frankfurt residents. I consistently chose SAS for Trans Atlantic travel for its competitve fares
101 Post contains images Scalebuilder : I think it is a shame that you do. Think of all the businesses within Scandinavia that have come to depend on this airline for their transportation n
102 Post contains images Copenhagenboy : "I'm tired of paying clearly non-competitve prices on SK longhaul. For pretty much any destination worldwide I can get a cheaper quote from LH, KL/AF
103 Tango-Bravo : A fitting description of the U.S. leagcies who are in either in bankruptcy or continue to lose money profusely in spite of all-time record demand. If
104 Post contains images Scalebuilder : Same situation in Europe as it is here in the states Tango-Bravo..except we are looking at an area that could not easily lose their airline and cope
105 Babybus : We really need a fully qualified aviation economist to hand on this site. Everyone has their own story. It is said that SQ and EK are highly profitabl
106 Tango-Bravo : Which means SAS is obviously doing something right on their longhauls, given the apparent fact that their longhaul load factors seem to be comparable
107 Mikkel777 : There are no such thing as Braathens anymore. Planes and staff are absorbed in BUSK, part of Scandinavian AB. WF is also fully owned by Scandinavian
108 Hodja : Not according to the CEO, who publicly claims longhauls currently doesn't earn SK a cent...
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