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DL Between Deep South And The West  
User currently offlineUCLAX From United States of America, joined May 2003, 180 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3352 times:

Having lived most of my life in the Deep South and California, I've usually first considered DL for travel between the two. Over the years, I've taken WN, NW, and AA more frequently for a variety of reasons (mostly price and nonstops to the cities I visit most). I'm not trying to play armchair economist, just asking a question out of interest as a DL history buff. Prior to DL pulling back at DFW, did they still have a big presence in markets between the South and the West? Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving!


...those who wait for the Lord�s help...rise up as if they had eagles� wings Isaiah 40:31
8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3466 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

Well, DL recently operated these routes, as far as I can remember:

MSY-LAX
MSY-LAS
MSY-SLC
MCO-LAX
TPA-LAX

And of course...
DFW-LAX/SNA/SAN/SLC/LAS/SFO/OAK/PHX/ABQ/DEN/COS/PDX/SEA

Besides from ATL, DL's presence from other deep South cities to the West has never been very large. Besides MCO/TPA/DFW/MSY/ATL and recently FLL, other Southern cities have never had none-hub flights to the West.

Jeremy


User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3296 times:

DL's presence in the West is very thin. Not as thin as NW or CO, thanks to the SLC hub, but still very thin compared to AA, UA, the new US/HP or WN. They aren't a real major player.

The ghost of Western Airlines...



USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3174 times:

few things about the west coast presence of delta that i do remember. first of all, who could forget how they turned around terminal 5 at lax. upon finishing western airlines start, terminal 5 was dubbed the "oasis" with bright marble flooring through, vaulted ceilings, sky lights, artificial palm trees and shrubbery all through, and ample windows to provide a bright, airy atmosphere to the terminal, it was unbelievable. at that time, they still operated from their gates at the end of terminal 6, the two or three gates that were elevated at the very end of the terminal, and skywest airlines also operated as delta connection out of terminal 6.

routes just after the takeover, to add to the above, i also remember there being a lax-okc-tul flight, 2X daily, then 1X daily before it was cut. also, other cities served that i remember from lax were sea, pdx, sfo, smf, rno, fat, sjc, oak, las, phx, tus, san, abq(continued to elp), slc, yyc (continued to yeg), yvr, hnl, ogg, and then a handful through mexico. those i believe were acapulco, ixtapa, guadalajara, mexico city, puerto vallarta if i am correct, might be missing one there. most of the late day northeast flights like pdx/sea continued onto anc. at one time, western then delta operated hourly service between lax and las, and then after the takeover, delta on their own operated a delta shuttle with flights every hour on the hour between lax and sfo. when western entered the dc-10 into service to hawaii, i remember my timetables that i still have had pictures of f/a serving hawaiian punch from a steaming volcano during flight. the dc-10 proved to be short-lived when fighting against delta's mighty fleet of L-1011 which eventually took over the hawaii routes.

out west, skywest fed delta through hubs in slc and lax, flying a fleet of swm and emb-120 a/c. i think their longest leg ever was a winter service that would operate couple times a week between lax and telluride nonstop. almost every smaller community throughout california was at one point served by skywest and its predecessor, sunaire. sunaire had a large presence throughout the southwest being based in psp.

above, one quick note, it was mentioned about some side service, anybody remember when delta offered late night service from a number of cities in the midwest to las vegas. msy is already mentioned, i remember mci having a night flight with a B727, i forgot who else won the flights that were quickly alll taken away with the exception of msy.

back in l.a. bout the time of the western takeover, in conjunction with skywest, western and then delta really fought to keep the l.a hub functional. promotions all through l.a. offered service from all 5 l.a. basin airports. all were served nonstop via slc, but even smarter, advertising got smart, and from lax, flights were also offered to bur, ont, and sna to which they quickly hopped you to lax for a mainline flight, all for not much of an added charge. my dad reguarly flew bur-san on skywest bout 3 times a week on the swm and then the emb-120 once those arrived. the ont/sna-lax routes still survive with skywest, although it now being operated for ua obviously.

for now, that's all i can remember, good start though. maybe more after dinner


User currently onlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3466 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3053 times:

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 2):
DL's presence in the West is very thin. Not as thin as NW or CO, thanks to the SLC hub, but still very thin compared to AA, UA, the new US/HP or WN. They aren't a real major player.

The ghost of Western Airlines...

DL's presence in the West dwarfs AA's. Do people think SLC is in the East or something?!? Other than DL's SLC hub and hub flights (AA doesn't even have a Western hub), DL operates LAX-FLL/TPA/MCO/BOS/JFK, SFO-BOS(ending 1/1/06)/JFK/and soon MCO, LAS-MCO/FLL/JFK/BOS, and SEA-JFK.

Jeremy


User currently onlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6523 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3004 times:

DL's service to the west from MSY, for example, was greatly diminished by the pull out of the DFW hub. Nonstops to LAS and LAX was cut in the late 90's/early 2000's, as was SLC. MSY-SLC came back early this year and was doing well until Katrina. Now, the only way to go west on DL out of New Orleans is via ATL. Certainly nothing like it used to be.

User currently offlineFlyboy7974 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1540 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2880 times:

speaking of msy, i remember when delta use to route la flights through msy into florida. i think tpa and mco, but towards the end, the tpa flight was only one way, eastbound.

out west, i think the california market has suffered quite a bit as skywest began to streamline their fleet and schedule. flights like bur-san that i mentioned that my father took 2-3 times a week, down in the am, back home evening for dinner, and he said most pax were doing that. other routes like sba-san, ont/bur/sna-fat, san-fat, sba-smf, mry-san/sna. who knows, maybe someone out there somewhere is already thinking about markets like this.

and that brins up a question, any way to go back to old stats, and check figures to see the O&D was in those smaller markets. i'm wondering if the emb120 was just too big for these markets as they replaced the swm, or the figures were actually that poor. for a while there, stateswest use to compete on the bur-san run, with a shorts 360, $19, $29, or $39 fares each way and 3 flights a day for business people through the week, one on sat/sun


User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3803 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2756 times:

Quoting UCLAX (Thread starter):
I'm not trying to play armchair economist, just asking a question out of interest as a DL history buff. Prior to DL pulling back at DFW, did they still have a big presence in markets between the South and the West?

As a fellow DL history buff and timetable collector, I am aware that DL once had a very major presence between Southern markets such as BHM, JAN, MSY, SHV, BTR, MGY, MLU, JAX, MIA, FLL, TPA and the Western markets of PHX, LAS, SAN, LAX and SFO. In fact, when DL was awarded service to from ATL, DFW and points between to LAS and California by the CAB (Civil Aeronautics Board) in 1961, back in the "good old/bad old" days when U.S. airlines were strictly regulated as to which cities and routes they could serve, greatly improved one-airline service between the Southeastern U.S. and LAS/California proposed by DL was probably the criteria that most caused the CAB to rule in DL's favor after lengthy hearings involving several airlines who had applied for the routes.

Initial DL services to LAS/SAN/LAX/SFO from the Southeast were routed through ATL and DFW; later DL also operated MSY-LAX non-stop for some years. Some flights between other Southeastern cities and LAS/California were same-plane by way of ATL or DFW or MSY while others were same-airline change-of-planes connections via ATL or DFW.


User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2741 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 4):
DL's presence in the West dwarfs AA's.

Sort of. But if you're flying intra-West, DL is completely useless, unless you like connecting at SLC to fly between California points. At least AA has some SFO/SJC-LAX/SNA corridor flights. No hub, but AA does have a shell of a "focus city" still at SJC.

[Edited 2005-11-25 21:32:55]


USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
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